The NBA 2010 offseason/draft thread

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Instead of text message, I'd say the breaking up happens via you fucking another girl on national TV.

This.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, that's kind of true also.....

But the Cavs owner didn't help himself in the sympathy department

Fuck sympathy. Sympathy and a buck gets you a soda from a vending machine.

I thought the letter was great, and I'm not even a LeBron hater. I'm not rooting against the Heat--but I am rooting FOR the Cavs, as far as Eastern Conference squads go. Good luck with that, Mr. Gilbert.

[stevew]

Bassy Telfair...born to lead Cleveland back into the lottery?

I'm glad he's on our team if we decide to rebuild.

04-05-Blazers win 27 games
05-06 blazers win 21 games
06-07 Celtics win 24 games
07-08 wolves win 22 games
08-09 wolves win 24 games
09-10 clippers win 29 games

[jbergey22]

I cant believe the Queen is still only 25 years old. Seems like he should be 26-27 by now.

Im trying to figure out a system where Wade and James can be effective that doesnt require two balls on the court at the same time. Wade and James are similiar in so many ways.

Id guess considering their lack of depth Bosh will still average in that 17-19 ppg range. Maybe Wade and Lebron will alternate posessions on who controls the ball and scores or passes.

[Atocep]

Hollinger's article after Lebron announced is about touches in Miami. He points out a few things: 1.) The best way to maximize them will be to make sure their rest is split up as much as possible which helps with touches 2.) The lack of cap space helps with the problem since they're mostly going to be getting replacement level guys that don't need the ball much 3.) From an efficiency standpoint Bosh probably gains the most.

With the above taken into consideration he only projects a drop in possessions used of about 5% each, which would still have Wade leading the league, James 3rd, and Bosh 27th.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Haha! They are hot after Luke Ridnour now. Where did we find this GM again?

They imo have seriously upgraded the talent level this offseason allready, are bringing in players that have sth to proove. If they can manage to trade Jefferson and propably one of their PGs (i´d honestly take Ridnour over either one of them ...) for a some decent players than i´d consider this offseason a success.
You will replace guys like Pavlovic, Jawai, Hollins, Pecherov, Wilkins with Milicic, Pekovic, Johnson and Webbster. I´d say this is substantial.

AND they will again have cap space next off-season (around 20 mio i think) ,if they can move Jefferson, when there will be much less competition than this year for the good players on the market (and i simply think that Rubio will flourish under nba rules and will mean 8-12 more wins over Flynn instantly).
It´s not like they filled the roster with long term contracts (yes, Milicic/Pekovic are, but not to amounts to hand-cuff your flexibility)

Originally Posted by stevew

RE Beasley. The Wolves will have to make a decision on his 7.8m dollar 2011 option BEFORE the season. I can't see doing that. So he's basically a lame duck all year.

actually he´d be a player in a contract year all season filling in for Jefferson and possibly seeing some time at the 3 (i mean, Gomes did as well) and then gets paid somewhere else while the timberwolves can sign someone else with the money he´s not getting from them.
If they don´t pick up the option of course.

[whomario]

I have to admit that i´m intrigued about the Heat team. Not rooting for them (or against them) but interested in how the hell they´ll manage to to co-exist on the court and in the locker room. This will produce a "my season with the 2010/2011 heat" book and would also make for a few interesting papers on College (psychology) i guess

I also said before that i don´t see Lebron and Wade complementing each other and agree that both should get their 10 minute rest independently save for the last 4 minutes of a game.
I also think Lebron has to be convinced to play some minutes at the 4 and concentrate on rebounding and making plays from the high post. Both need to figure out a way to influence the game without the ball in their hands, that´s also sth where the coach has to come up with good plays.

Mike Miller will have to say goodbye to his Magic-Johnson-impersonation he´s been trying to sell the last few years, he will not touch the ball other than to freaking shoot it.

Bosh imo will fit in pretty good if he has his ego in check, as his skillset is very much fit to score without running a ton of plays for him, can run the floor, rebound and has a good 15-18 foot jump shot for a big man.

Shaq wouldn´t fit in at all . So him clogging up the lane for Nash and later Lebron isn´t enough to tell you it would be a good idea to clog up the lane for Wade and Lebron at the same time ? They need a guy that can hit from 12-15 feet or roll to the basket for easy scores.

[wade moore]

Ok, don't want to read through 6 pages of whining from last night.

I think the hatred on Lebron for leaving Cleveland by Clevelanders (just the leaving, not the show he put on) is ridiculous. He was surrounded by crap talent for 7 years - it wasn't getting any better. I would have left too. Loyalty only goes so far when you're getting no support from the team.

[whomario]

In other news David Lee gets a sign and trade to the Warriors, the Knicks get Randolph and Azubuike who both missed most of last season with injury ...

For Lee this will be a great situation playing with Stephen Curry for the next years, looking forward to it. I do think Randolph has a ton of talent, but i also don´t see him playing much next to Stoudemire since he can´t and Stoudemire reportedly won´t guard 5s.

Originally Posted by wade moore

Ok, don't want to read through 6 pages of whining from last night.

I think the hatred on Lebron for leaving Cleveland by Clevelanders (just the leaving, not the show he put on) is ridiculous. He was surrounded by crap talent for 7 years - it wasn't getting any better. I would have left too. Loyalty only goes so far when you're getting no support from the team.

This situation also shows why it is so tough to be drafted by your hometown team as a big-time talent, you are either stuck with them for live or almost have to alienate them/break their hearts.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Instead of text message, I'd say the breaking up happens via you fucking another girl on national TV.

Unfortunately, I think this is the better analogy

SI

[Atocep]

Dan Gilbert's letter is creepy. It's like a "no you aren't dumping me I'm dumping you" letter from a chick you've been dating forever and just realized how crazy she is.

After hearing how good it was I was expecting an epic ass ripping. That was just plain sad to read.

[whomario]

smaller signings that (i think, tough to tell with the amount of posts since yesterday) haven´t been mentioned :

Clippers sign Randy Foye (8/2) and Ryan Gomes (12/3), solid signings i´d say.

Toronto will sign Linas Kleiza to an offer sheet for 19 mio for 4 years, Nuggets have 7 days to match (which Kleiza hopes they won´t) .

Makes sense for Toronto, who ,similar to the Timberwolves, can´t compete head on with a lot of free agents and thus go the Euro route (Toronto is a city that you can easily see a lot of Euros find attractive to live in + the short distance back flying over the atlantic) as often as possible.
Don´t really see how they are goind to give Hedo a much bigger role as promised and also play Kleiza bigger minutes than he last did with the Nuggets, but we´ll see.
Bargnani was hoping to move back to the 4 spot as well ...

EDIT : Knicks also get Turiaf, good for them.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Ok, don't want to read through 6 pages of whining from last night.

I think the hatred on Lebron for leaving Cleveland by Clevelanders (just the leaving, not the show he put on) is ridiculous. He was surrounded by crap talent for 7 years - it wasn't getting any better. I would have left too. Loyalty only goes so far when you're getting no support from the team.

The hatred isn't about him leaving. It's about how he did it. I could care less about his legacy. I think it hurt it, but it's his legacy and his life. But leaving like he did and turning the sports world into such a fiasco was embarassing and disgraceful.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The hatred isn't about him leaving. It's about how he did it. I could care less about his legacy. I think it hurt it, but it's his legacy and his life. But leaving like he did and turning the sports world into such a fiasco was embarassing and disgraceful.

+1

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

...turning the sports world into such a fiasco...

{snicker}

[rowech]

I love ESPN getting on here and bashing him now. All they did was promote the crap out of this and now that it's over, they gauge public reaction, and now feed into it. Classic ESPN. I wish more than anything some other sports network could get off the ground and give ESPN some competition.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by rowech

I love ESPN getting on here and bashing him now. All they did was promote the crap out of this and now that it's over, they gauge public reaction, and now feed into it. Classic ESPN. I wish more than anything some other sports network could get off the ground and give ESPN some competition.

Agreed. I actually used to watch ESPN in the morning as I got ready for work, and would watch at night, but I'll be the first to say that over the last week, as the LeBron drama became all-encompassing (THIS JUST IN! LEBRON HASN'T MADE A DECISION YET BUT WAS SEEN GOING TO WHITE CASTLE!), I stopped turning on ESPN at all. I think what LeBron did was pretty scummy, but what ESPN has done was pretty embarrassing.

/tk

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The hatred isn't about him leaving. It's about how he did it. I could care less about his legacy. I think it hurt it, but it's his legacy and his life. But leaving like he did and turning the sports world into such a fiasco was embarassing and disgraceful.

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

+1

Even though I disagree with the hatred for him making it a show, that's not what MANY Cleveland fans hate him for.

They hate him for leaving. Pure and simple. They can sugar coat it with the tv show, etc, etc - but they think he's a dick because he left them.

[Groundhog]

Actually been digging Mo Williams' tweets the past couple of hours. Gained some respect for him.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

It just makes too much sense to not happen. Shaq fits in perfectly with this group of egos and for the past 3-4 years still thinks he is better than he really is. This way Shaq could feel like he led this group of young stars to a championship.

pipe dream i think.

[Groundhog]

Oh, and had to LOL at this too:

Nick Collison: DECISION 11' has officially begun!!! 365 days until Nick Collison announces his free agent decision in a one hour special live on PBS!!! Yesterday.

[CleBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The hatred isn't about him leaving. It's about how he did it. I could care less about his legacy. I think it hurt it, but it's his legacy and his life. But leaving like he did and turning the sports world into such a fiasco was embarassing and disgraceful.

Or about how he went out in the playoffs against Boston. Not sitting well for anybody here in Cleveland.

Like I posted a few pages ago - as a Clevelander I'm just numb from players (and teams) leaving here for greener pastures. It's really hard to enjoy professional sports when you live in this city

[Chief Rum]

I like the Foye and Gomes signings for the Clips. This means they get a nice workhorse forward in Gomes who can start at SF if need be, and Foye means they don't have to rely on a rookie (Bledsoe) or another starter (Gordon) to backup BD at the point.

Also, the deals are small enough that they can still add more. I think Gomes is better as a backup, so I hope they are still in the market for a SF, particularly a good shooting one, which is still a need they have to address (outside shooting).

Also, I haven't seen it anywhere yet on this side of the ocean, but it seems that the Clips are close or have already signed Baby Shaq to a two year deal (uncertain of money, $2M-$5M). He would join the big man mix with Kaman, Griffin starting & Jordan backing up (Gomes and Aminu available to help out at the 4).

[albionmoonlight]

Biggest difference between Jordan and James, IMO:

Had Jordan done this same thing--leaving his team in free agency to go play for another team--he would have managed to orchestrate it so that the only next-day stories would have been about "Michael is a winner. He's doing what he needs to do to win. etc." The post-change analysis would have been almost 100% about how much he had brought to his old team and how little that team has supported him with talent. His popularity would have gone up through the move.

James, of course, managed to bungle this so that everyone who isn't related to him or a fan of the Heat will start next season rooting against him.

I can't recall anyone in my lifetime (with the possible exception of Mel Gibson pre-I-really-hate-the-Jews-gate) who was so expert at manipulating the media/public without making it look like he was manipulating the media/public as Michael Jordan. Had he not been a basketball savant, he could have probably been an A-list actor, a successful politician, or a Fortune 500 CEO based solely on his ability to dictate his image.

[Noop]

Dan Gilbert comes off as a loser, no wonder the Cavs can't win the big one. His bold prediction about winning the title comes off as a desperate attempt to make himself feel good.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Or about how he went out in the playoffs against Boston. Not sitting well for anybody here in Cleveland.

Like I posted a few pages ago - as a Clevelander I'm just numb from players (and teams) leaving here for greener pastures. It's really hard to enjoy professional sports when you live in this city

This is cold comfort, I know. But I am pretty sure that James' TV special cements the fact that the next Cleveland team to make a professional sports finals will have pretty much the entire country rooting for it.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Noop

His bold prediction about winning the title comes off as a desperate attempt to make himself feel good.

To me, it begs the question of "Wait, were you holding back before? Were there things you could have been doing to win a title that you decided were too much work? Now you are 100% motivated? Can I have a percentage of my season ticket money over the last seven years back?"

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Noop

Dan Gilbert comes off as a loser, no wonder the Cavs can't win the big one. His bold prediction about winning the title comes off as a desperate attempt to make himself feel good.

No, he comes off as someone who is angry and feels betrayed. Seriously, what would you have preferred? "We wish LeBron all the best at Miami"? Fuck that. I'd rather my owner show some passion.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS

FRONT PAGE! Epic.

Ah, so this is the moment where basketball became wrestling. I can't believe it took reading this letter for me to figure that out.

[Calis]

I might be odd, but that Gilbert letter is making me hope Miami does win a title and soon. He managed to make Lebron not look quite so bad.

Also, what is up with the font choice there, did he use Comic Sans? I'm slightly depressed that I am annoyed by that. I blame Lebron.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

No, he comes off as someone who is angry and feels betrayed. Seriously, what would you have preferred? "We wish LeBron all the best at Miami"? Fuck that. I'd rather my owner show some passion.

No he comes off as a loser. He reminds me of the guy who always has an excuse for losing. He said LeBron is bringing the curse to Miami, since when was there a curse in Cleveland? He declares they are now more motivated to win... why weren't they before?

Instead of trying to win a title he has done everything to try to make LeBron happy. I have looked at their basketball moves over the years and they had no interest in winning a title. Mike Brown had no business being their coach and nor did they ever develop/draft/sign a great number 2 player for LeBron. Mo Williams(bless his heart) is not/should not be a number 2 option and for them that is what he was.

Instead of being made at LeBron maybe the Cleveland fans need to get made at the Cavs front office.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

This thread was a real shitshow last night.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Noop

No he comes off as a loser. He reminds me of the guy who always has an excuse for losing. He said LeBron is bringing the curse to Miami, since when was there a curse in Cleveland? He declares they are now more motivated to win... why weren't they before?

Instead of trying to win a title he has done everything to try to make LeBron happy. I have looked at their basketball moves over the years and they had no interest in winning a title. Mike Brown had no business being their coach and nor did they ever develop/draft/sign a great number 2 player for LeBron. Mo Williams(bless his heart) is not/should not be a number 2 option and for them that is what he was.

Instead of being made at LeBron maybe the Cleveland fans need to get made at the Cavs front office.

The Cleveland curse has been discussed in this thread and on every sports site on the web over the past 12 hours.

And I maintain that the Front Office did everything they could. Once again, the 2009-10 roster was good enough to win it all. LeBron gave up on his team in the Boston series. Cavs fans (and others) were calling him on that back when it happened in the regular season thread, not to mention all over the internet. If you watched the games, I don't know how you couldn't have seen that yourself.

And Jamison was brought in to be that #2 guy. Now we're stuck with him as our #1 guy for the next 2 seasons.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

No, he comes off as someone who is angry and feels betrayed. Seriously, what would you have preferred? "We wish LeBron all the best at Miami"? Fuck that. I'd rather my owner show some passion.

Not when his passion is going to piss off agents in a sport where agents have the most control of players. Who is going to want to be the star in that atmosphere? Writing that may have felt good, but it was counterproductive.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Not when his passion is going to piss off agents in a sport where agents have the most control of players. Who is going to want to be the star in that atmosphere? Writing that may have felt good, but it was counterproductive.

I don't think it will have any effect what-so-ever. Cavs have never lured any high profile FAs before, so what's the worst it could do? Trades and the draft, that's the best we've got.

[JPhillips]

But it has no possibility of helping the team and only a possibility for hurting the team. Someone needed to step up and tell Gilbert not to drunk dial.

[Groundhog]

It was directed at Cleveland's supporters as much as it was to LeBron. Worked for me.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But it has no possibility of helping the team and only a possibility for hurting the team. Someone needed to step up and tell Gilbert not to drunk dial.

It wasn't meant to help the team. Just to try to buy some time with the fans.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I like the Foye and Gomes signings for the Clips. This means they get a nice workhorse forward in Gomes who can start at SF if need be, and Foye means they don't have to rely on a rookie (Bledsoe) or another starter (Gordon) to backup BD at the point.

Also, the deals are small enough that they can still add more. I think Gomes is better as a backup, so I hope they are still in the market for a SF, particularly a good shooting one, which is still a need they have to address (outside shooting).

Also, I haven't seen it anywhere yet on this side of the ocean, but it seems that the Clips are close or have already signed Baby Shaq to a two year deal (uncertain of money, $2M-$5M). He would join the big man mix with Kaman, Griffin starting & Jordan backing up (Gomes and Aminu available to help out at the 4).

I think Foye is a quality pickup as a backup PG/SG. Especially with how injury prone Baron is, and Gomes is a guy I've always liked, but yeah, definitely as a backup.

And I keep forgetting about Blake Griffin. Very interested to see how he does.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by jeff061

It wasn't meant to help the team. Just to try to buy some time with the fans.

Which doesn't help win games at any point in the future. The hard truth is that the only hope Cleveland has is at least four or five years out. They need to shed Jamison and Williams ASAP and tank for a couple of years. After a couple of top draft choices they may be in a position to compete, but trying to win with this roster as your core is a ticket to Pacersland.

[Coffee Warlord]

Now that this ridiculous fiasco is overish.

I'm actually curious what the Bulls do, considering they quite literally have no shooting guards on the roster.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

The Cleveland curse has been discussed in this thread and on every sports site on the web over the past 12 hours.

And I maintain that the Front Office did everything they could. Once again, the 2009-10 roster was good enough to win it all. LeBron gave up on his team in the Boston series. Cavs fans (and others) were calling him on that back when it happened in the regular season thread, not to mention all over the internet. If you watched the games, I don't know how you couldn't have seen that yourself.

And Jamison was brought in to be that #2 guy. Now we're stuck with him as our #1 guy for the next 2 seasons.

I think Jamison is alright but he is not a #2 despite what he has done in the past. They waited until his contract year for them to finally get a "#2" and they were not winning the title this season. Kobe and Co. would have beat them in 5 and LeBron would have failed against Kobe.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Which doesn't help win games at any point in the future. The hard truth is that the only hope Cleveland has is at least four or five years out. They need to shed Jamison and Williams ASAP and tank for a couple of years. After a couple of top draft choices they may be in a position to compete, but trying to win with this roster as your core is a ticket to Pacersland.

Well, the hard and brutal fact is that, regardless, the only hope is at least 3 years out when most of the current guys are out of contract. They can't win with this line up, unless "qualify for the playoffs" is your definition of winning, and that's certainly not the case after the past couple of years. The only card he's got to play is the "everybody hate on LeBron" card to try and get bums in the seats and keep people interested.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Noop

I think Jamison is alright but he is not a #2 despite what he has done in the past. They waited until his contract year for them to finally get a "#2" and they were not winning the title this season. Kobe and Co. would have beat them in 5 and LeBron would have failed against Kobe.

There are many, many #2 options in the league worse than Jamison. He's a solid player. He didn't always play so great for the Cavs, but the front office can't help that.

It's easy to say now that they'd have beaten them in 5 games, but the Cavs were pretty damn good during the regular season. Optimism was high.

[JPhillips]

And just qualifying for the playoffs is the worst spot to be in in the NBA.

[Groundhog]

...and you saying "LeBron would have failed against Kobe" just backs up everything I've been saying. He would have. Had he not already failed against the Celtics.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Which doesn't help win games at any point in the future. The hard truth is that the only hope Cleveland has is at least four or five years out. They need to shed Jamison and Williams ASAP and tank for a couple of years. After a couple of top draft choices they may be in a position to compete, but trying to win with this roster as your core is a ticket to Pacersland.

No, it hopefully gets money in his pockets in the short term. Winning isn't everything with ownership.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And just qualifying for the playoffs is the worst spot to be in in the NBA.

I won't argue with that. What's the alternative? Who is going to take Mo Williams and Jamison and Varejao? Nobody. Do we just instruct the team to lose all their games?

[JPhillips]

I think Jamison's contract has some value. The other two are a lot more difficult and may be untradeable. The bigger issue, though, is that Gilbert needs to be honest with the fanbase and say losing Lebron means we have to rebuild ASAP. Trying to win before Lebron is a terrible plan that will only lead to a number f 40-45 win seasons and first round playoff exits.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

...and you saying "LeBron would have failed against Kobe" just backs up everything I've been saying. He would have. Had he not already failed against the Celtics.

The Cavs were not winning the title this season or next.