Alright boyz, here we go!!! OOTP2006 First Impressions Thread!

[jbmagic]

PC Gamer review

Sept issue of PC Gamer - Brett Todd reviewed the big 3.

Mogul - score 81%
Pure Sim - 74%
OOTP 2006 - 46%

"Stat goons are the market for ootp 2006, which has been given a makeover by the soccer-loving Brits at Sports Interactive. Lead developer Markus Heinsohn remains in charge, but the old menus and MLB focus have been jettisoned for SI's stock interface and a global perspective.

For this baseball fan, the result isn't pretty. In the rush to let people be minor-league managers in Cuba, SI has dropped key features like the star system for rating players and trading blocks. The new menu system is a bear when sorting players, which makes it crazily time consuming to get to know rosters.

Also MIA are must haves like bullpen warmups and rain delays, or an artificial intelligence that recognizes how goofy it is for impoverished clubs in Mexico to offer players million-dollar deals. Overall, OOTP 2006 is a big letdown, even for an unabashed SI fanboy and OOTP nut like myself"

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

It does it for all the teams though. I just had to keep running the computer manager because for some reason the game kept hanging on players in DFA for other teams.

Yeah, sorry, but that isn't a fix. We shouldn't need to have a checkbox that prevents all the teams in each league from making moves.

For starters, the AI should NEVER mess with your own roster unless you give it permission to do so. The transactionsin terms of the minors are improving, but again, the moves still happen to frequently. I'm still hopeful though. The memory issues do need to be tackled.

[jbmagic]

TroyF

Any chance to have DFA an option to have it disabled?

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Yeah, sorry, but that isn't a fix. We shouldn't need to have a checkbox that prevents all the teams in each league from making moves.

For starters, the AI should NEVER mess with your own roster unless you give it permission to do so. The transactionsin terms of the minors are improving, but again, the moves still happen to frequently. I'm still hopeful though. The memory issues do need to be tackled.

I'm not quite sure if my problem was roster set related or game related yet.

[GabeRivers]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

It does it for all the teams though. I just had to keep running the computer manager because for some reason the game kept hanging on players in DFA for other teams.

Wow. I'll need to look at that in my current league. The way that check box was positioned, I just assumed it was on a team only basis. Thanks for getting back on that.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

PC Gamer review

I read this and agree with it it totally. Puresim is for histiry buffs who want to play out a season 1899. Mogul is for modern era play and future stuff. OOTP was always for super staters but know you should have a masochistic tendency as well.

[RainMaker]

Well, I jumped the gun a bit after downloading the new patch. I looked around and it fixed a few things that were bugging me and so I started to delve into the game and play.

That is when I realized how bad it truly was. I'm a former OOTP fanboy and still stand by 6.51 as a great game despite a few flaws. However, OOTP 2006 is just a bad game. You can sugar coat it with "it's re-written" or "it's better for the long haul", but it's just a horrible game right now.

The more I moved around, the more I realized how completely moronic the interface is and how ridiculously difficult easy moves have become. Simply setting yourself up to run an organization without computer interference is a huge task. Add a general manager, be a commissioner, be a manager, and so on.

I gave it a shot, I was happy with the changes. However, diving into this game has just been a nightmare. Sadly, this seems to be the new direction of the game. PC Gamer said it best, SI took a great game and put their face on it and ruined it. It's time to shift to another baseball sim, and I shutter to think how bad OOTP sales will be next year (I can't imagine anyone pre-ordering).

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I shutter to think how bad OOTP sales will be next year

Indeed, not a pretty picture...

[Buccaneer]

Sadly, this seems to be the new direction of most text-sim games.

Fixed. To all of the developers that think the Kitchen-Sink approach is the new trend, please play FBCB over and over.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's time to shift to another baseball sim, and I shutter to think how bad OOTP sales will be next year (I can't imagine anyone pre-ordering).

Personally, I'm happier with this version - bugs and all - than the older versions of OOTP, because while those always had an immediate immersive quality to them, they always hit their peak and after a few months, I wouldn't pick them up anymore.

With OOTP 2006, I'm sure that I'll play it months from now, especially after they fix the lingering issues and also, I think the next version will be that much better because this experience will have taught them a ton.

The game appeals to a certain kind of text-simmer, as you alluded to and so..I think that while certain people may be turned off, a lot of other people will be pleased if they actually make some major fixes. And I'm a lot more confident that longer term, SI would be able to ensure that the game gets better than say, if they were not involved in the process.

That's just me... I guess we'll see.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Personally, I'm happier with this version - bugs and all - than the older versions of OOTP, because while those always had an immediate immersive quality to them, they always hit their peak and after a few months, I wouldn't pick them up anymore.

With OOTP 2006, I'm sure that I'll play it months from now, especially after they fix the lingering issues and also, I think the next version will be that much better because this experience will have taught them a ton.

The game appeals to a certain kind of text-simmer, as you alluded to and so..I think that while certain people may be turned off, a lot of other people will be pleased if they actually make some major fixes. And I'm a lot more confident that longer term, SI would be able to ensure that the game gets better than say, if they were not involved in the process.

That's just me... I guess we'll see.

I agree also. I've been playing OOTP since version 3, and the past couple of iterations I've spent 99% of my time using the game for online leagues only. The changes made in OOTP2006 and the direction that the game appears to be going seems to me like it will make for a much more enjoyable solo sim experience.

[jbmagic]

I am tire of the excuses because they needed to re-write the code for the new engine.

Re-writing the code is not the same as re-writing the logic. The same problems from past versions still exist in this version(and in some cases are worse).

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

I am tire of the excuses because they needed to re-write the code for the new engine.

These are not excuses, these are facts ...whether you choose to agree with them or not is up to you. In order to move the game forward, Markus felt the game needed to be built from the ground up.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

These are not excuses, these are facts ...whether you choose to agree with them or not is up to you. In order to move the game forward, Markus felt the game needed to be built from the ground up.

That part might be true about the re-writing of the code.

But re-writing the logic seems the same still with the AI from past versions. I surprise with a new engine, he didnt expand more on the logic part.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

These are not excuses, these are facts ...whether you choose to agree with them or not is up to you. In order to move the game forward, Markus felt the game needed to be built from the ground up.

I'm not a programmer nor do I dislike SI by any means (love EHM), but I really don't understand how the AI couldn't be fixed in 6.5 for v7 AND do some interface cleanup, add the cato like almanac, etc..??

Markus had his reasons as stated, but I'm dumbfounded by that last statement.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I read this and agree with it it totally. Puresim is for histiry buffs who want to play out a season 1899. Mogul is for modern era play and future stuff. OOTP was always for super staters but know you should have a masochistic tendency as well.

I haven't tried the other 2, but I am having a blast playing Mogul after starting a modern day career.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I haven't tried the other 2, but I am having a blast playing Mogul after starting a modern day career.

Same here. I ended up downloading Mogul, found it much improved from last year (which I liked more than most people). It does what Mogul does well and seems to have improved in critical areas (real R/L splits, improved AI management). For the price, I think it is definitely worth it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

... and I shutter to think how bad OOTP sales will be next year (I can't imagine anyone pre-ordering).

First of all, it's "shudder". I only mention that because somebody is bound to & we might as well get it out of the way.

More importantly, don't shudder that prospect, embrace it. Having an abysmal product bomb is the best thing that could happen to the genre right now IMO, and having it happen to one that's got a relatively high profile is even better in the long run.

Maybe then we'll see more attention paid by developers to putting products on the street when they're ready instead of multi-generation paid beta testing (or in some cases what appears to be alpha testing).

As long as consumers prove willing to pay for crappy products, that's what we're bound to keep getting.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

First of all, it's "shudder". I only mention that because somebody is bound to & we might as well get it out of the way.

More importantly, don't shudder that prospect, embrace it. Having an abysmal product bomb is the best thing that could happen to the genre right now IMO, and having it happen to one that's got a relatively high profile is even better in the long run.

Maybe then we'll see more attention paid by developers to putting products on the street when they're ready instead of multi-generation paid beta testing (or in some cases what appears to be alpha testing).

As long as consumers prove willing to pay for crappy products, that's what we're bound to keep getting.

True. God if only EA could have Madden game flop like this we might finally get a new decent pro football game.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Same here. I ended up downloading Mogul, found it much improved from last year (which I liked more than most people). It does what Mogul does well and seems to have improved in critical areas (real R/L splits, improved AI management). For the price, I think it is definitely worth it.

I am curious which of the three games is the best for playing the role of a wheeling and dealing GM ala Billy Bean or Theo Epstein. I'm leaning towards Mogul at this time. Does anyone know how it handles afging players progression especially for guys in the minors?

[jbmagic]

Does Mogul latest handle financial stuff and trades well?

[John Galt]

Mogul does trades pretty well although its allowance for up to 15 players on a side gets it into trouble sometimes. I adopt a house rule cap of 5 players per team and that checks most of the abuse.

The financial side is pretty good with the exception of the D-Rays. That team is perpetually in debt without a chance. However, a quick edit of the league file seems to clear up that problem. Or you could just laugh at the D-Rays forever.

The latest patches have improved things, but the game still does some weird things with players in the minors. For some reason it pushes to many just drafted players straight into the majors (if they are REALLY good) or to AAA (if they are REALLY bad) which isn't the best.

Mogul isn't perfect, but its cheap, efficient, and does most things pretty well, IMO. I recommend it and it certainly is easier to play than OOTP or Puresim based on my experience with those demos.

[RedKingGold]

OOTP 6.51 is still the best baseball sim for the price, IMHO.

Just turn of waivers, turn trades way down, and have some fun.

[Stevebsfan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I'm not a programmer nor do I dislike SI by any means (love EHM), but I really don't understand how the AI couldn't be fixed in 6.5 for v7 AND do some interface cleanup, add the cato like almanac, etc..??

Markus had his reasons as stated, but I'm dumbfounded by that last statement.

note: I am not trying to defend Markus, just giving you a reply based on my limited knowledge of programming from working closely with my brother on a website that required a *lot* of .asp code.

My guess is Markus was probably using the same base code he's been using for many versions now. Code that's had patches on top of patches on top of patches to fix other patches, etc. It was probably getting pretty bloated by this point, and i'm sure in his experience, then getting access to the SI source code, he learned many coding tips and tricks. However you can't always just go back in your code and 'clean it up', sometimes it's easier to re-write it from the ground up believe it or not.

That being said, I do believe he probably could have easily did what you suggested, which was simply clean up the UI and tweak things here and there. It's clear with 2006, that's not what he wanted to do. He wanted to greatly expand the game to have multi-leagues, blah blah (you know the list). There was probably no way he was going to do that by putting even more on the old ugly code he had, so the best way to go was to completely re-write the game with all his new programming knowledge he had gained over the years. By re-writing he probably not only made it easier to write such a massive game, but he was probably smart about it and left the door open to expand later on.

I seen it with the website we had, and many other games over the years. You can't just keep using the same old code. If you do, the updates become less impressive and won't justify the cost of a new version. I mean honestly, had he just slapped cato on 6.5 then tweaked the UI, people would tear him apart for charging $30 or so dollars for version 6.5+Cato. Some would be happy with that, but i'm sure some wouldn't have been.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

These are not excuses, these are facts ...whether you choose to agree with them or not is up to you. In order to move the game forward, Markus felt the game needed to be built from the ground up.

I understand that. I just don't understand what building it from the ground up has to do with a completely disastrous interface and having to make every seemingly easy move take forever. Re-writes are supposed to make games play easier, this one is 10x harder than previous ones. When I say tougher, I don't mean the gameplay, I mean simple moves like trading a guy, re-ordering your minors, or heck, even being able to control a team without interference.

I understand the AI is going to be an on-going project, but I just don't see any end in sight for a game that has really just added more steps to otherwise easy tasks.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

First of all, it's "shudder". I only mention that because somebody is bound to & we might as well get it out of the way.

More importantly, don't shudder that prospect, embrace it. Having an abysmal product bomb is the best thing that could happen to the genre right now IMO, and having it happen to one that's got a relatively high profile is even better in the long run.

Maybe then we'll see more attention paid by developers to putting products on the street when they're ready instead of multi-generation paid beta testing (or in some cases what appears to be alpha testing).

As long as consumers prove willing to pay for crappy products, that's what we're bound to keep getting.

I am glad that you have included the comsumer as being part of the problem.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

First of all, it's "shudder". I only mention that because somebody is bound to & we might as well get it out of the way.

Bah, I knew I was too subtle.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Bah, I knew I was too subtle.

Yah, I'll admit that it sailed right over my head until I went back & re-read it.

[Drake]

I think it's just that no one really reads cuervo's posts. He's posted like 6,000 times over at the FOBL boards and I have no idea what any of them said.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Stevebsfan

note: I am not trying to defend Markus, just giving you a reply based on my limited knowledge of programming from working closely with my brother on a website that required a *lot* of .asp code.

My guess is Markus was probably using the same base code he's been using for many versions now. Code that's had patches on top of patches on top of patches to fix other patches, etc. It was probably getting pretty bloated by this point, and i'm sure in his experience, then getting access to the SI source code, he learned many coding tips and tricks. However you can't always just go back in your code and 'clean it up', sometimes it's easier to re-write it from the ground up believe it or not.

That being said, I do believe he probably could have easily did what you suggested, which was simply clean up the UI and tweak things here and there. It's clear with 2006, that's not what he wanted to do. He wanted to greatly expand the game to have multi-leagues, blah blah (you know the list). There was probably no way he was going to do that by putting even more on the old ugly code he had, so the best way to go was to completely re-write the game with all his new programming knowledge he had gained over the years. By re-writing he probably not only made it easier to write such a massive game, but he was probably smart about it and left the door open to expand later on.

I seen it with the website we had, and many other games over the years. You can't just keep using the same old code. If you do, the updates become less impressive and won't justify the cost of a new version. I mean honestly, had he just slapped cato on 6.5 then tweaked the UI, people would tear him apart for charging $30 or so dollars for version 6.5+Cato. Some would be happy with that, but i'm sure some wouldn't have been.

Good post, never thought about the "patch after patch" issues that could arise.

[SackAttack]

Ouch.

Cubs' star second baseman just tore a back muscle trying to stretch a single into a double...in spring training.

Done for the year.

Even better, he had just signed a 6-year, $96 million contract.

I bet talk radio in Chicago would be fun to listen to after that.

[Marc Duffy]

The next 1.0.2 build goes live today.

Added Features

- Added player status to player HTML report
- Added ability to generate depth charts based on a lineup
- Improved default league settings for included real leagues
- Added the option of being notified when a player is eligible to come off the DL
- Added potential minor league free agents to the possible free agents list of a team
- The game now remembers the last logged in manager in non-online games
- Amateur drafts now can have less than five rounds
- Added the option to easliy change a player's uniform number in the player profile screen
- Added uniform number to the player lists (delete \data\tables folder once in order to get the numbers to show up)
- The ballpark name is now editable in the team options screen
- Added league financial report
- The league structure can now be edited during the offseason and preseason
- Added the option to erase all player career stats
- The dialogs "Create reports" and "Upload league files" will save the settings automatically

Fixes / Improvements

#1408 - Fixed display problems with historical team abbreviations
#1442 - Fixed lines not wrapping in PbP
#1446 - Fixed manager age calculation when creating a game
#1480 - Fixed split season winner selection
#1640 - Fixed back-to-back bug
#1708 - Fixed AI messing with minor league lineups of human teams
#1772 - Awards winners report labeling has been incorrect
#1775 - Fixed bug in reports upload dialog and league files upload dialog: program couldn't change drive
#1809 - Fixed starting time of tiebreakers
#1825 - Fixed revenue sharing problems
#1839 - When adding a new team to the league, it will now automatically get team colors and a logo
#1842 - Fixed pitch counts after intentional walks
#1844, #1874 - Fixed problems with extra AB given after throwing errors
#1859 - Fixed coaches not leaving team when contract is up
#1865 - Tweaked pitch-out success
#1877 - Fixed player running speed creation in historical leagues using real modifiers
#1878 - Switching to ratings in the 40-man roster section of the transaction screen was fixed
#1891 - Fixed trade offers not expiring
#1913 - Fixed stats assignment to pitcher who did not really pitch
#1914 - Fixed bug with standings directly after playing games out
#1972 - Fixed problems with coaches/scouts payroll being displayed when disabled
#1973 - Fixed visiting the mound after bringing in a reliever
#1980 - Fixed player filter problems with PITCHER position
#1985 - base stealers now get credited with a SB on catcher throwing errors
#2002 - Attendence of spring games no longer show up in front office
#2012 - Pitcher run support and TB allowed are now properly tracked
#2019 - Fixed game log of CS of third base
#2023 - Fixed extension problem for players with minor league contracts
#2025 - Fixed switch hitters not adjusting after pitching change
#2033 - Quality starts are now properly recorded
#2041 - Templates are no longer overwritten, a warning is given instead
#2043 - Fixed blank lines in PbP
#2044 - Human team games are no longer simulated in the background when playing/watching a game
#2049 - Fixed bug where earning a 3-inning saves did not include earning a save opportunity
#2057 - Team batting strikeouts are now ranked properly in team leader lists
#2063 - Fixed minor league free agency with unaffiliated teams
#2083 - Position filters now longer reset after a transaction
#2089 - Fixed team power rankings report remembering positions
#2094 - MySQL errors in teams and cities have been fixed
#2096 - Player and coaches sorting has been incorrect with lower-case names
#2101 - Fixed position distribution on generated free agents
#2103 - Player lists on the transaction screen now remeber the scrollbar position
#2108 - Fixed problems with notifications when controlling all team
#2111 - Fixed problems of player names not displaying when wathcing allstar games
#2112 - Injured minor leaguers can now be DFA'ed from the 40-man roster
#2114 - Players on the 40-Man roster are no longer given a major league contract automatically
#2115 - Fixed problems with positions assigned in-game
#2118 - Fixed frequency of 3-1 plays
#2120 - Fixed teams offering job to the manager they just fired
#2123 - Fixed templates not saving inaugural draft option
#2132 - Fixed free agents showing up twice the roster export
#2138 - Fixed importing of wild pitches in historical leagues
#2139 - Fixed team count in database info page
#2141 - Fixed spot starter selection AI
#2144 - Improved intentional walk AI
#2145 - Fixed crashing while quick-scouting
#2149 - Fixed pinch-runners getting RBI after injury
#2150 - Fixed stats scope not working with last year stats splits
#2156 - Fixed crashing after watching a game and then playing a game
#2169 - Fixed talent change messages
#2173 - Improved PH for position players AI
#2177 - Fixed coaches experience calculation
#2180 - Tweaked ROY award selection
#2183 - Fixed spring game log not being deleted for some players
#2194 - Fixed revenue sharing sometimes displaying despite being disabled
#2197 - Fixed multiple pitcher of month awards bug
#2198 - Fixed rare reporting bug with milestone K's
#2204 - Fixed free agent contract demands during the regular season
#2239 - Fixed "ask AI to setup entire organization" players disappearing
#2258 - Players with a major league contract aquired via trade now automatically is put on the 40 man roster
#2260 - Fixed top performances report
#2263 - Fixed SB assignment on failed double steal
#2266 - Fixed a problem with saves
#2274 - Fixed age calculation aftet roster imports
#2275 - Fixed squeeze bunt AI
#2281 - Fixed pitches in player editor
#2280 - Switching to the opponents team in the in-game screen is now possible when forced to substitute a player
#2284 - Fixed problems recognizing free agency when set to less than 3 years
#2288 - Fixed pitching holds recording
#1982 - Fixed editing of media contracts
#2107 - Fixed FTP issues
#2306 - Fixed problems with low salary settings
#1879 - Leaderboard numberings bug has been fixed
#1886 - SQL dump table "games_score": fixed number of innings
#2133 - SQL dump table "league_history_fielding_stats": added year, league id, sub league id

Fixed plenty PbP and game log bugs
Free Agents now wait a bit longer before finally signing a contract
Files in tar archives will show the correct file dates and time after inflating
Fixed several FTP problems
Fixed memory leaks
Added several fields to SQL dump (league table: financial coefficient and start year)
Fixed: SQL dumps didn't contain decimal values
Fixed the years drop down problem on the HTML scores page/report for leagues starting in a year and ending in the following year
Fixed overall rating for relievers with high endurance
Tweaked AI free agent bidding, making it more agressive
Fixed the links bound to the big letters on the history players index page
Fixed several PbP bugs
Fixed problems of free agents being signed to 1 year contracts in offseason before free agents have filed
The first half of the first amateur draft round is now protected from compensation picks
Tweaked the gae & talent of hidden players
Fixed inaugural draft AI in historical leagues

[Eaglesfan27]

Is the demo being upgraded as well? Is the 2 week limit being removed?

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Is the demo being upgraded as well? Is the 2 week limit being removed?

They now have a 30 day limit.

You can play up to 6 months of the season.

The 30 day limit will not reset after each new patch.

So best to wait until the last patch comes out to try the demo out.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

They now have a 30 day limit.

You can play up to 6 months of the season.

The 30 day limit will not reset after each new patch.

So best to wait until the last patch comes out to try the demo out.

That doesn't help those of us who became impatient and have already tried the demo.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

That doesn't help those of us who became impatient and have already tried the demo.

I agree.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

That doesn't help those of us who became impatient and have already tried the demo.

I'm still working with E-License on that!

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

I'm working with E-License on that!

Thanks. I am hoping it will be able to be sorted out.

[Icy]

New patch released today to fix a few issues:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=127882

I think i'm going to give it a new try after leaving it untouched since the release date.

[lynchjm24]

There are some very nice improvements in the latest patch.

I would avoid trying to play with the real rosters being developed - they seem to have a lot more problems then a fictional league.

It seems to be going in the right direction - but just bringing back the old trade functionality and making the AI a priority would get this game where it should have been upon release.

I've been annoyed by some of the things that Markus has said on the OOTP boards, but they have addressed many concerns and as long as they support this game for another few patches before they flip to working on 07 it should be pretty good.

[lighthousekeeper]

One thing I can't figure out is:

when you make an offer to a free agent, you don't get immediate feedback on the player's response. how can you see a listing of the players you've made offers to and the amount of the offer?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

There are some very nice improvements in the latest patch.

I would avoid trying to play with the real rosters being developed - they seem to have a lot more problems then a fictional league.
It seems to be going in the right direction - but just bringing back the old trade functionality and making the AI a priority would get this game where it should have been upon release.

I've been annoyed by some of the things that Markus has said on the OOTP boards, but they have addressed many concerns and as long as they support this game for another few patches before they flip to working on 07 it should be pretty good.

Could you elaborate at all on that statement. I was about to purchase finally but not if it can't play with real MLB rosters. Where did you here this anyways?

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Could you elaborate at all on that statement. I was about to purchase finally but not if it can't play with real MLB rosters. Where did you here this anyways?

That is from my experience of using the beta releases of the real MLB roster sets. I also saw Battists over at OOTP mention that he thinks you'll see less problems if you don't use the real rosters yet.

SI didn't do a good job of setting this game up to have roster sets made and that will hurt them in the long run if they don't get it fixed. I can't imagine anyone trying to do a set after watching what those guys seem to be going through. Again, the fact that months after release there isn't a 'real' roster set tells you just how difficult it's become and that is not good for SI or their customers.

[Young Drachma]

I downloaded the Ankit DB and its worked well for close to 100 seasons now.
What sort of "problems" do these other leagues have? I used the MLB 2.0 quickstart a while back and it worked fine for me. The only problems I had were the fact that the beta patches were messing other things up, not the quickstart.

So...what makes these other things so unsuable?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

That is from my experience of using the beta releases of the real MLB roster sets. I also saw Battists over at OOTP mention that he thinks you'll see less problems if you don't use the real rosters yet.

SI didn't do a good job of setting this game up to have roster sets made and that will hurt them in the long run if they don't get it fixed. I can't imagine anyone trying to do a set after watching what those guys seem to be going through. Again, the fact that months after release there isn't a 'real' roster set tells you just how difficult it's become and that is not good for SI or their customers.

Thanks for the info and that is to bad ...........for SI.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

One thing I can't figure out is:

when you make an offer to a free agent, you don't get immediate feedback on the player's response. how can you see a listing of the players you've made offers to and the amount of the offer?

I wonder if maybe they get shortlisted. If not, that would be something for me to bring up to Markus - have players to whom free agent offers have been made get automatically shortlisted, and have players who have signed contracts with you get automatically de-shortlisted.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I wonder if maybe they get shortlisted. If not, that would be something for me to bring up to Markus - have players to whom free agent offers have been made get automatically shortlisted, and have players who have signed contracts with you get automatically de-shortlisted.

They don't get shortlisted. I think your idea is a great one, but I think more than just auto-short listing is needed. YOu need a way of seeing the outstanding offers that you've made - not only the players but the $$ amount of the offer. Like I said, there may be some place in the game where this is available but I haven't been able to find it.



...btw...the whole reason I brought this up was because I started making offers to some FAs and now I can't remember who I made offers to.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

That is from my experience of using the beta releases of the real MLB roster sets. I also saw Battists over at OOTP mention that he thinks you'll see less problems if you don't use the real rosters yet.

SI didn't do a good job of setting this game up to have roster sets made and that will hurt them in the long run if they don't get it fixed. I can't imagine anyone trying to do a set after watching what those guys seem to be going through. Again, the fact that months after release there isn't a 'real' roster set tells you just how difficult it's become and that is not good for SI or their customers.

Part of the problem, I think, is that real minor leagues are more complicated than what OOTP is currently able to do. I mean, you think about it, and this is the most aggressive approach to the minors I've seen in any baseball game yet. Usually it tops out at AAA, AA, A. One affiliate for each team, each league set up to mirror MLB. That way every team has the same number of teams, etc.

OOTP 2006, You've got Short Season A and Rookie as well, and a team can have multiple affiliates in each class. On top of that, affiliations were a problem too, as I recall. I don't recall whether there were examples of split affiliations in the minors (as I know sometimes happens in the NBA) that you couldn't model with OOTP, but if you're trying to be anal in getting the exact rosters for every team in the majors and 16 or 17 minor leaguers...that's a task.

That's a Herculean task.

And I think people forget that, with OOTP 6.0/6.5, it wasn't nearly that Herculean. You could take a sampling of each team's best prospects, put them where they belonged, and get the major league roster squared away.

With, say, seven affiliates per team, you either sacrifice accuracy by doing the same thing and then filling the lower affiliates with fictional players, or you bust your balls trying to make it work.

Or you create fictional minor league systems with 30 teams each, mirror them to the MLB, affiliate as necessary, and build from there.

In some ways, the flexibility of the league structure now is maybe the Achilles heel for OOTP when it comes to roster sets. The more potential the game exhibits, the more ambitious the roster set creators get.

And that doesn't even address other issues that I'm probably not aware of.

That said, I'd bet much of the problem comes from the fact that one of the guys working on a set only seems to have gotten the game two days before release, and, as I said, people are expecting a much more ambitious effort than they've gotten in the past.

I'm fairly willing to bet that if that is in fact the case - that the 'roster crew,' as it were, came late to the beta process, that we know the reason right there why it's taking so long. Not that it's particularly difficult, but that it's time consuming to put out a set of the magnitude people are demanding.

That's where I would quibble, I think - in that roster creation isn't "difficult," per se, but time-consuming. If you have the game, create a manager to operate in commissioner mode, click on a player, and click the 'editor' tab on the far right, and you can see all the input fields.

There are a lot of fields in there, and it extends beyond the scope of just the ratings set. There are ratings for back injuries, leg injuries, arm injuries, and 'other' injuries. You've got basic demographic information about each player - name, nickname, height, weight, city of birth, nationality, bats, throws, position.

You can edit personality, set specific length of major league service, professional service, options remaining/used. You can edit contract data. For every player, you can create both hitting and pitching ratings/repetoire (although I don't know if you could create a Babe Ruth-type who could both pitch and play the field, but admittedly I haven't tried).

Now consider how under the microscope you are when you create not just a major league roster, but the prospects for each team. That's a lot of pressure to get it right, and that can breed a perfectionist in any of us.

What I think SI should have done this year, if they wanted a major league roster set, and ought to do next year, is solicit teams of folks for each squad, similar to what they do with FM. Ideally they'd get the MLBPA license so that they could include the roster from the get-go, assuming Take-Two's license doesn't preclude that.

But if they can't do it officially, do it unofficially. Get squads of people to work on each team, and include a 'team export' function, so that you can have one master controller who can import each squad's work into one master roster set, which can then be released at launch.

Or create a 'roster creation' tool that can be used independently of the game to achieve the same effect. Create rosters, export them to a team export file, set it up to where you can import all 30 organizations and click "Create roster set" to compile it into 'players.dat.' Since the new code base is set, ideally you'd be able to do this so that it works with OOTP 2007, so that Markus (or somebody) could create the utility, go to work on OOTP 2007, and then the mod squad has the tools in hand well in advance of the game's release so that they CAN release an ambitious roster set on time.

Certainly they've had the time and resources to get quality rosters with FM. There has to be a way to do something similar in OOTP, but given the advances of PureSim and the surprising quality of Baseball Mogul, they need to do something along those lines for the 'real roster' crowd.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

They don't get shortlisted. I think your idea is a great one, but I think more than just auto-short listing is needed. YOu need a way of seeing the outstanding offers that you've made - not only the players but the $$ amount of the offer. Like I said, there may be some place in the game where this is available but I haven't been able to find it.



...btw...the whole reason I brought this up was because I started making offers to some FAs and now I can't remember who I made offers to.

I'll make mention of that in the patch beta forum, then, see if that might not be a solution.

[lighthousekeeper]

the number of features that were available in ootp5 / 6 that are no longer available is staggering.