2012 NFL Offseason thread

[miked]

So the question I guess I'm wondering is, what exactly is acceptable? We know teams try to get an advantage, we've heard the stories. Pumping loud crowd noise to the visitor bench, alleged problems with visiting team helmet communication devices. I mean, is it so hard to believe that a team would bug the opposition? We see coaches cover their mouths when they call plays in, we see 3 decoy players sending in signals, and much more. I'm certain that teams are constantly doing whatever they can to gain a competitive advantage, but where is the line drawn. I'm certain teams have probably tried to pay off sideline people to get info...but is it only ok to do these things if it's your team?

And why is this a crime? I guess I'm naive, but I didn't think it was illegal to try and record somebody's conversations. Are they tapping phone lines, or just putting listening devices to hear?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by miked

And why is this a crime? I guess I'm naive, but I didn't think it was illegal to try and record somebody's conversations. Are they tapping phone lines, or just putting listening devices to hear?

Laws likely vary by state, but I know in the state of Washington it is illegal to record someone without their consent.

[Ksyrup]

Scott Bentley is intimately familiar with those laws in Florida.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Show me where anyone was called stupid? The fact is if he can't figure out why no one is willing to give the Saints the benefit of the doubt then he isn't looking at it with any perspective.

In this situation, no one was called stupid.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by miked

tapping phone lines

You know that that ain't allowed

[Thomkal]

Well apparently the WR situation in Minnesota is so bad that they have signed a player about to start a 15 day jail sentence and miss the first three games of the regular season. Yep they have signed pot-head Jerome Simpson.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

You know that that ain't allowed

Well yes, tapping phone lines isn't allowed. But would I be able to put a listening device on the side line somewhere? I'm just trying to figure out at what point something becomes a competitive advantage and something we don't want. Pumping in artificial crowd noise to visitor bench = bad, having people with binoculars trying to steal signals = good.

[molson]

Originally Posted by miked

Well yes, tapping phone lines isn't allowed. But would I be able to put a listening device on the side line somewhere? I'm just trying to figure out at what point something becomes a competitive advantage and something we don't want. Pumping in artificial crowd noise to visitor bench = bad, having people with binoculars trying to steal signals = good.

I'm pretty sure the NFL has drawn that line down to the detail with hundreds or thousands of rules and regulations. We got a glimpse of that with the spygate thing, there was a ton of information about exactly what was allowed, and when and where it was allowed. And that was a few years ago now. I bet its even more detailed now, with almost every conceivable situation accounted for. And really, you can draw the line anywhere, there's no perfect place, it's just important to have a line that, in theory, applies to all teams.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

You know that that ain't allowed

Wonderfully done, even if miked missed the reference. A++++++!!!!

We dress like students, we dress like housewives, or in a suit and a tie.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm pretty sure the NFL has drawn that line down to the detail with hundreds or thousands of rules and regulations. We got a glimpse of that with the spygate thing, there was a ton of information about exactly what was allowed, and when and where it was allowed. And that was a few years ago now. I bet its even more detailed now, with almost every conceivable situation accounted for. And really, you can draw the line anywhere, there's no perfect place, it's just important to have a line that, in theory, applies to all teams.

And important to note, just like with the bounties, the NFL warned all teams about videotaping signals. The Patriots kept doing it and got busted, hence the penalty.

[Matthean]

So much for the Lions season. Calvin Johnson gets the cover of Madden.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Matthean

So much for the Lions season. Calvin Johnson gets the cover of Madden.

I am honestly shocked any player would do this.

[spleen1015]

Mort mentioned this morning on Mike & Mike that the Pro Bowl is likely dead.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am honestly shocked any player would do this.

Megatron will break the curse!

[Kodos]

He is dooooooooooooomed.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Mort mentioned this morning on Mike & Mike that the Pro Bowl is likely dead.

Pro Bowl is all but dead - CBSSports

Many years past due. The Pro Bowl is like that rustbucket '35 pickup that's sat in the forest of weeds in your uncle's backyard for the last 70 years.

[Passacaglia]

So will announcers just start throwing around the term "All-Pro" for anyone they think had a pretty decent year?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So will announcers just start throwing around the term "All-Pro" for anyone they think had a pretty decent year?

Isn't the All-Pro Team different than making the Pro Bowl?

EDIT - Yeah it is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro

[molson]

It sounds like they'll still have pro-bowl voting, pro-bowl teams, pro-bowl incentives in contracts, and some kind of recognition of the players super bowl week. They'll just skip the game and the trip to Hawaii.

[DataKing]

I haven't watched the Pro Bowl in years because defense (or rather, the lack thereof).

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Isn't the All-Pro Team different than making the Pro Bowl?

EDIT - Yeah it is - All-Pro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting, thanks.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Pro Bowl is all but dead - CBSSports

Many years past due. The Pro Bowl is like that rustbucket '35 pickup that's sat in the forest of weeds in your uncle's backyard for the last 70 years.

[Grover]

Michael Davis, brother of Vernon and Vontae Davis, arrested and suspected of murder | ProFootballTalk

It's too bad his name isn't Maxwell, and the hammer isn't silver.

[larrymcg421]

AJC ‏ @ajc Breaking sports news: Four Saints suspended; Vilma for all of 2012. Story to come.

[larrymcg421]

dola

The suspensions were: Vilma for the season, Anthony Hargrove (now with the Packers) for 8 games, Will Smith for 4 games, and Scott Fujita (now with the Browns) for 3 games.

[Blackadar]

This is going to Federal Court - bank on it.

[albionmoonlight]

I'm sure that the NFLPA will appeal.

Hopefully, this is far out enough before the season that the appeal will be resolved (one way or the other) before the season starts.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I'm sure that the NFLPA will appeal.

Hopefully, this is far out enough before the season that the appeal will be resolved (one way or the other) before the season starts.

It's unlikely to be resolved that quickly. The players will appeal and their GODdell will rule in his own favor. Then the NFL PA will go to Federal Court (aka the StarCaps case). The players will be allowed to play while it goes to court, but this is gonna take a while.

[Buccaneer]

Cool, they get to (correctly) suspend the coach for a season and they try to do the same thing with a player that actually performed some of the actions and they're screaming and hollering.

[Logan]

Unconfirmed word coming from TMZ that Junior Seau is dead. Police responded to a shooting at his house.

[jeff061]

Junior Seau -- Cops Investigating Shooting Involving NFL Star | TMZ.com

People in law enforcement are telling us Junior Seau is dead ... but we are unable to confirm that right now.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

dola

Anthony Hargrove (now with the Packers) for 8 games...

The Lions don't play the Packers until after Week 8. Thanks for nothing, Goodell!

[jeff061]

Quick update, TMZ seems pretty sure now.

Junior Seau Dead -- Cops Investigating Shooting | TMZ.com

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Quick update, TMZ seems pretty sure now.

Junior Seau Dead -- Cops Investigating Shooting | TMZ.com

Nice, they're implying that it may be suicide?? Anyone else read it that way?

WTF?

[jeff061]

After driving his SUV off a cliff a year ago and having to deny a suicide attempt, I assumed that.

[Dutch]

Terrible tragedy but an extremely kind-hearted acknowledgement by Greg Schiano to Eric Legrand.

Eric LeGrand fulfills NFL dreams by signing with Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Greg Schiano
Eric LeGrand fulfills NFL dreams by signing with Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Greg Schiano | NJ.com

When the call came to their Woodbridge apartment early Tuesday, Karen LeGrand (mother) kept out of sight in an adjoining room, eavesdropping on her son’s half of the conversation.

“I knew it was coming so I was listening in,” she said today. “And I heard Eric say, ‘Are you serious, coach? Really? No, you’re not serious.’

[kingfc22]

Terrell Suggs gone for the year.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Rumored Terrell Suggs tore an Achilles, out for the year.

[JPhillips]

I hear from two sources that Suggs is out for the year.

[Blackadar]

Confirmed.

Terrell Suggs of Baltimore Ravens tears Achilles tendon - ESPN

As a Steeler fan, I'm used to Suggs killing us every game - but I'd rather beat Baltimore at their best. So to any Ratbirds fans out there, I'm sorry to hear about this.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

This is going to Federal Court - bank on it.

Doubt it, CBA preemption is pretty strong.

State court is more likely, if at all.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Doubt it, CBA preemption is pretty strong.

State court is more likely, if at all.

It'll start there. There's going to be some clever attorney that finds a LA statute that conflicts with this part of the CBA and tries to use that in court. If they're successful, then it'll move to Federal Court at some point like the StarCaps case.

---

Back to the Saints - I think the penalties are overly harsh. Vilma getting 16 games? That's not right. At the same time, I I really don't want to hear any Saints fans bitching.

Big Ben was suspended originally for 6 games for being accused of rape - of a crime that didn't have enough evidence to even have probable cause for charges. No physical evidence supported her "she said-he said" allegations. Yet Der Commish took it upon himself to make Ben an example. It was mostly about image and that's why Ben was slapped with 6 games. It was and remains an absurdity - no one has been ever been suspended that long over such flimsy allegations. Yet the Steeler family and fans took it (and some said it was a good thing for Big Ben) and dealt with it. To this day, fans of many teams - including yours, Saints fans - call Ben a rapist and other vile crap. GODdell made Ben an example to protect the NFL image and Ben still has to deal with that every game, every stadium. When we played in your house a couple of years ago, the fans in that stadium made constant references to the "rapist" on the field.

So now the Saints players are getting long suspensions due largely to the same thing - image. Your guys did something wrong, but it's really the image that's been tarnished. So guess what, Saints fans? You and the rest of the NFL fans had your opportunity to voice your opinions regarding image-based suspensions and you chose to support the Commish over facts and fairness. So now that your team is impacted, well...I don't have any sympathy for you. Don't whine when people call your Super Bowl tarnished or your team a bunch of criminals or mercenaries. Suck it up and deal with it.

Doesn't feel good when the shoe is on the other foot, does it?

[Honolulu_Blue]

I have no problem with the penalties at all.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

It'll start there. There's going to be some clever attorney that finds a LA statute that conflicts with this part of the CBA and tries to use that in court. If they're successful, then it'll move to Federal Court at some point like the StarCaps case.

---

Back to the Saints - I think the penalties are overly harsh. Vilma getting 16 games? That's not right. At the same time, I I really don't want to hear any Saints fans bitching.

Big Ben was suspended originally for 6 games for being accused of rape - of a crime that didn't have enough evidence to even have probable cause for charges. No physical evidence supported her "she said-he said" allegations. Yet Der Commish took it upon himself to make Ben an example. It was mostly about image and that's why Ben was slapped with 6 games. It was and remains an absurdity - no one has been ever been suspended that long over such flimsy allegations. Yet the Steeler family and fans took it (and some said it was a good thing for Big Ben) and dealt with it. To this day, fans of many teams - including yours, Saints fans - call Ben a rapist and other vile crap. GODdell made Ben an example to protect the NFL image and Ben still has to deal with that every game, every stadium. When we played in your house a couple of years ago, the fans in that stadium made constant references to the "rapist" on the field.

So now the Saints players are getting long suspensions due largely to the same thing - image. Your guys did something wrong, but it's really the image that's been tarnished. So guess what, Saints fans? You and the rest of the NFL fans had your opportunity to voice your opinions regarding image-based suspensions and you chose to support the Commish over facts and fairness. So now that your team is impacted, well...I don't have any sympathy for you. Don't whine when people call your Super Bowl tarnished or your team a bunch of criminals or mercenaries. Suck it up and deal with it.

Doesn't feel good when the shoe is on the other foot, does it?

"Fantasyland" is right.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I have no problem with the penalties at all.

Nor do I.

[Kodos]

I love that Goodell is a hardass.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I hear from two sources that Suggs is out for the year.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Confirmed.

Terrell Suggs of Baltimore Ravens tears Achilles tendon - ESPN

As a Steeler fan, I'm used to Suggs killing us every game - but I'd rather beat Baltimore at their best. So to any Ratbirds fans out there, I'm sorry to hear about this.

I was hoping that Ben could go most of the game without wearing a #55 jersey. Much prefer the scenerio where he walks off the field as a loser vs watching the game in a cast

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

It'll start there. There's going to be some clever attorney that finds a LA statute that conflicts with this part of the CBA and tries to use that in court. If they're successful, then it'll move to Federal Court at some point like the StarCaps case.

I think you're confusing this a bit, the clever attorney would file the state court action but the cleverer NFL attorney would remove to federal court under preemption and the federal court would likely remand to NFL labor arbitration.

What made the StarCaps case successful is that those plaintiffs had a broader choice of forums and chose Minnesota's favorable drug testing laws. I'm not sue the same forum choices would be available here.

[stevew]

I'm hoping Vilma gets indicted at some point. Slapping down 10K on a table to incite an individual to injure someone should not be tolerated. Even within the confines of a sporting event.