WW Amazing Race - Game Over (Moles Win & Team Reebok Wins)

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Can one piggyback on a vote that doesn't exist?

you can certainly piggeback on ones arguments. Autumn had done that multiple times in the past as a wolf for example and him doing that to me was the main reason I caught him last time he was a wolf.

This time no wolf piggy pagged on my argument, I think there's little chance of that happening if jag was a villager

[Danny]

Sorry EF

[Autumn]

Man, now I find out I'm transparent as a wolf. Great.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Danny

you can certainly piggeback on ones arguments. Autumn had done that multiple times in the past as a wolf for example and him doing that to me was the main reason I caught him last time he was a wolf.

This time no wolf piggy pagged on my argument, I think there's little chance of that happening if jag was a villager

Interesting theory -- too bad you just said that anyone who agrees with it is a wolf!

[Autumn]

I"ll admit I'm really lost where to go today. I've got my vote on McKerney because I'm afraid if he's a wolf he could slide by to the end. I was hoping a vote or two on him would get him talking and give us something to base votes on. When it comes to Hoops/Chief/JAG/Pass I'm quite unsure who would be the wolf in that group. I'm kind of guessing there's one there and one in PF/NTN/Mckerney. I see people thinking three wolves, whereas Saldana seemed certain there would be four total. I guess I'm just hoping there's only two more right now.

[Danny]

If there are only four wolves I think that makes ntn and cr look even better cause it would mean mauboy voted for a roled wolf day 1 which would be terribly risky with only 4 wolves.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Danny

you can certainly piggeback on ones arguments. Autumn had done that multiple times in the past as a wolf for example and him doing that to me was the main reason I caught him last time he was a wolf.

This time no wolf piggy pagged on my argument, I think there's little chance of that happening if jag was a villager

Well, seeing as only one person has a vote out, I'm guessing the wolves are just playing things safe before committing themselves. For what it's worth, the vote the day before yesterday was very quiet until a flurry at the end.

At this point, I would probably lean towards voting Pass. I've come around more on Autumn based on his comments earlier today. If Pass comes up wolf, then hoops looks pretty good. I can see an argument to vote hoops, but I just don't have a bad vibe with him.

[PackerFanatic]

A few reasons for my vote today (and I apologize for not being around much last night or today)

-His quick switch off mau on day 1 when other candidates popped up.
-His quick jump on Jackal on day 2 when Lathum brought him up.
-His "pile-on" vote of mau to basically hide his vote on the day mau was lynched.
-He has been fairly quiet most of the game, staying under-the-radar

VOTE NTNDEACON

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I don't entirely believe him either. I'm also open to the possibility that he's a regular villager who dropped hints that he seer to stay around past day one. I agree that the future comment was to give the impression he's a seer, but also without saying it so he can claim he never admitted to being seer.

I also think that he could be a wolf, but currently think The Jackal is a better pick for tonights vote.

Going back through old posts. McKerney hasn't said a lot but here's one of his comments after Mauboy fake revealed. this is before Mauboy pretended to be a paparazzi, so it's interesting to me that it seems to be setting up this possibility, perhaps trying to leave Mauboy an out if the seer reveals. One point against mcKerney in my mind.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Going back through old posts. McKerney hasn't said a lot but here's one of his comments after Mauboy fake revealed. this is before Mauboy pretended to be a paparazzi, so it's interesting to me that it seems to be setting up this possibility, perhaps trying to leave Mauboy an out if the seer reveals. One point against mcKerney in my mind.

I wasn't trying to set him up with an out, I thought that's what he was doing for himself with the vague comment. If you check the day three votes I was the first one to vote for mauboy and it was before he admitted he wasn't the seer and claimed the fake paparazzi role.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That's the thing, thoughm Lathum, I didn't see you state why. Your initial post just tosses out that you protected yourself, not why. You only made it seem that way in retrospect because you were attacked, so The Jackal must be a wolf, kindof a circular "that's why I protected myself". But you wouldn't have known any of that prior to the attack. When you made your decision, mau was likely to be a seer, and your unknown-allegiance but hopefully good teammate The Jackal knew you were the BG. I would like to know why in that situation, even in three minutes, you chose to protect yourself and not the presumed seer.

I believe you're the BG. I think the real BG would have come out by now if you were not. So please don't think I am trying to paint you as a wolf. I am just honestly confused by your decision, why you would risk the seer like that. It flies in the face of conventional WW logic.

Reading Chief's posts back on day 2 I'm finding myself leaning more his way. He came out rather stridently against Lathum's move of protecting himself. This is just one of those posts, and he makes very clear he's not suggesting Lathum's a wolf, yet does a lot of painting Lathum's move as suspect. Including using this point to try to gloss over the fact that people were finding it very strange that Mauboy scanned Chief. It just seems we've seen a lot of strident, defensive Chief in this game.

And that scan is a point I find myself returning to. why would Mauboy claim to have scanned Chief? he could have claimed to scan his teammate, or NTN. There wasn't really any reasoning for picking Chief. Does that mean he was avoiding scanning either of those two? Or why did he pick Chief out of thin air?

[ntndeacon]

Just to hit on a point Autumn mentioned about our race dealings. I did suggest using a point of aggression for the benefit of Chief and Hoops.

[hoopsguy]

Why would you use aggression to benefit another team, ntn? Just curious as this is something that our team hasn't discussed at all.

[Danny]

Based on what I'm seeing, the vote is going to end up 2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1

[Autumn]

Well, at least there won't be a tie!

[hoopsguy]

I'm torn between "vote JAG" because I'm willing to take my cues from a known villager (Danny) who I consider an astute player and "vote Pass" because I sincerely hope we weren't so off-base on Day 5 that we had a three villager run-off.

At this point, I'm going to jump on Pass for the vote. Both of these approaches are kind of tough for me to swallow, because I like to tell myself that I'm good at sifting through posts and seeing stuff that isn't supposed to be seen. But I feel like I've got almost nothing this game, as my voting record suggests.

VOTE PASS

[ntndeacon]

Well the idea was from Amazing race. Helping out another team could be reciprocated and an allaince of sorts could be formed between the two teams. that was the kernel of the idea...and you and chief were thought of because even if one of you had been ousted from WW You were both cagey veterans that would be good to be in our corner so to speak in the race game.

I was and still am looking at the two games as mostly separate.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Danny

Based on what I'm seeing, the vote is going to end up 2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1

Yes, but how many of those votes will be yours? :P

Anyway, we're smarter than that.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm torn between "vote JAG" because I'm willing to take my cues from a known villager (Danny) who I consider an astute player and "vote Pass" because I sincerely hope we weren't so off-base on Day 5 that we had a three villager run-off.

At this point, I'm going to jump on Pass for the vote. Both of these approaches are kind of tough for me to swallow, because I like to tell myself that I'm good at sifting through posts and seeing stuff that isn't supposed to be seen. But I feel like I've got almost nothing this game, as my voting record suggests.

VOTE PASS

Your feeling is right, you've got nothing.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Reading Chief's posts back on day 2 I'm finding myself leaning more his way. He came out rather stridently against Lathum's move of protecting himself. This is just one of those posts, and he makes very clear he's not suggesting Lathum's a wolf, yet does a lot of painting Lathum's move as suspect. Including using this point to try to gloss over the fact that people were finding it very strange that Mauboy scanned Chief. It just seems we've seen a lot of strident, defensive Chief in this game.

And that scan is a point I find myself returning to. why would Mauboy claim to have scanned Chief? he could have claimed to scan his teammate, or NTN. There wasn't really any reasoning for picking Chief. Does that mean he was avoiding scanning either of those two? Or why did he pick Chief out of thin air?

I was trying to make sense of Lathum's move, so we could properly evaluate The Jackal and maybe mau. Remember, at that point, no one really knew what to make of mau, and Lathum's move to protect himself was definitely confusing. If you think you have an outted seer, why do your protect yourself? Who does that? Doesn't that seem a strange decision to you? That is all I was saying there. And if having an opinion on someone else's play is "being strident", I guess I am strident.

As for the defensive part of it, you should look back at past games where people come at me with very little logic or who argue unfairly in their posts; you'll find I quickly I get defensive and aggressively counterattack. I don't like arguments like that; they're intellectually lazy and within the scope of the game, irresponsible, as they can result in misudnerstanding and get the wrong people lynched. Since I have seen a lot of that this game, you shouldn't be surprised it has gotten my hackles up.

And, BTW, I think you need to re-read Days One and Two and Three; I don't gloss over mau's scan of me. I even offer up a theory for what he was doing (scanning me instead of Danny). Since Danny's a villager, the theory ended up being bunk, but I certainly didn't ignore it.

Also, I would question your logic in that mau's scan of me is an attempt by him to hide me as a wolf. That would be a very poor play, and I think you know that. If you're a wolf who has claimed a role whereby a villager in the game knows that you are a lying (as mau did), you know it's only a matter of time before either this guy comes out and busts you or that you are outted in some other way. You might get away with it if you can swing it near the end of a game, I suppose, but no way do you do this reveal on Day One and think you're going to get away with it. Knowing then that it's only a matter of time before your fake seer reveal is uncovered, you announce that your Night One scan is... one of your fellow wolves? What kind of sense does that make?

Come on, Autumn, you're too good to fall for that trap. The fact you're going down that road when I know you're too smart for that makes me start to wonder about you.

[Danny]

Hmmm, could it be I was the last remaining villager and you're all wolves?

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

As for the defensive part of it, you should look back at past games where people come at me with very little logic or who argue unfairly in their posts; you'll find I quickly I get defensive and aggressively counterattack. I don't like arguments like that; they're intellectually lazy and within the scope of the game, irresponsible, as they can result in misudnerstanding and get the wrong people lynched. Since I have seen a lot of that this game, you shouldn't be surprised it has gotten my hackles up.

I am definitely aware of this, and if I wasn't I would have jumped on you much earlier than this. In another player I would have 100% interpreted your play as a wolf with some heat on him.

And, BTW, I think you need to re-read Days One and Two and Three; I don't gloss over mau's scan of me. I even offer up a theory for what he was doing (scanning me instead of Danny). Since Danny's a villager, the theory ended up being bunk, but I certainly didn't ignore it.

I did reread that, and yes you offered up an explanation. Your theory was one reason I voted for Danny, so yes, there's that. But your reaction (and yes I just read all those posts) could also be painted as a wolf trying to cover up for the mistake of his fellow wolf. A good method would be to redirect the suspicion at Danny rather than yourself.

Also, I would question your logic in that mau's scan of me is an attempt by him to hide me as a wolf. That would be a very poor play, and I think you know that. If you're a wolf who has claimed a role whereby a villager in the game knows that you are a lying (as mau did), you know it's only a matter of time before either this guy comes out and busts you or that you are outted in some other way. You might get away with it if you can swing it near the end of a game, I suppose, but no way do you do this reveal on Day One and think you're going to get away with it. Knowing then that it's only a matter of time before your fake seer reveal is uncovered, you announce that your Night One scan is... one of your fellow wolves? What kind of sense does that make?

Come on, Autumn, you're too good to fall for that trap. The fact you're going down that road when I know you're too smart for that makes me start to wonder about you.

I've pointed out repeatedly, I think, while trying to remain tactful, that I think Mauboy really blundered with his reveal. And so while I agree that it would have been a poor wolf move, so would pretending to be the seer when you get votes and then pretending to actually be the paparazzi. I am operating on the principle that Mauboy may have made a poor choice in his scan in order to help out the wolves. He obviously had much more confidence about how his reveal was going to work than he should have. You should be able to see that, and while I can see that it's in your interest as either villager or wolf to naysay it, I don't think you or anyone else should be discounting it completely.

That said I don't want to seem like I have a crusade against you. I do however think there are arguments against you, and I keep seeing those get brushed away, which I Find strange or suspicious.

[Chief Rum]

I am still of the opinion that it is very nearly impossible for ntn to be a wolf with the way Day One went down, and the only way it would have happened is if I were a wolf, too, which I am not. And even knowing none of you know my allegiance for sure, you have to accept then that if ntn is indeed a wolf, for the vote to go down the way it did, all three of us (me, mau and ntn) would have had to be wolves. On Day One? What kind of luck is that?

You're buying a lot of hope if you think ntn is a wolf at this point.

Also, I still think it's tremendously unlikely that Pass acts the way he does and is a wolf.

My instincts are overhwlemingly that ntn and Pass are not only villagers, but darn near obvious villagers. I don't think we should waste time on either one while we have other, more uncleared villagers left in the game.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I wasn't trying to set him up with an out, I thought that's what he was doing for himself with the vague comment. If you check the day three votes I was the first one to vote for mauboy and it was before he admitted he wasn't the seer and claimed the fake paparazzi role.

I would like to see that vote. Thanks for pointing it out Mckerney.

[Danny]

I think I said it before, but no way would I vote ntn or cr right now. I don't think I'd vote pass either

[Danny]

I think I said it before, but no way would I vote ntn or cr right now. I don't think I'd vote pass either

[Autumn]

That does look like a good vote, McK, certainly early enough that if you were trying to make yourself looking good for voting a wolf you were doing so in an expert fashion. And some of your posts during that day make me think better of you.

[mauchow]

My name keeps coming up a lot. Glad I made a lasting impression. LOL

[Autumn]

Chief, can you explain why you wouldn't vote Pass? I don't see anything at all particularly for or aagainst him.

[Autumn]

Mauboy, Mauboy, mauboy.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I would like to see that vote. Thanks for pointing it out Mckerney.

Post 769 on page 16

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I am definitely aware of this, and if I wasn't I would have jumped on you much earlier than this. In another player I would have 100% interpreted your play as a wolf with some heat on him.

Ah, but I am not another player. In fact, I would say my reaction to Pass and to otehrs is entirely consistent with my past play. It's metagamey, of course, and you shouldn't use it, but that said, it's there. How you would react to another player doing the same thing is irrelevant. You're not dealing with another player.

I did reread that, and yes you offered up an explanation. Your theory was one reason I voted for Danny, so yes, there's that. But your reaction (and yes I just read all those posts) could also be painted as a wolf trying to cover up for the mistake of his fellow wolf. A good method would be to redirect the suspicion at Danny rather than yourself.

But is that the high percentage read? I can see that, but I would hope you would have more to go after me than coming up with a low percentage theory and basing your vote on it. Heck, you know that in this situation, no way am I or any veteran wolf even going to acknowledge mau. He would have been cutoff the second he did his fake reveal (at least publically).

I've pointed out repeatedly, I think, while trying to remain tactful, that I think Mauboy really blundered with his reveal. And so while I agree that it would have been a poor wolf move, so would pretending to be the seer when you get votes and then pretending to actually be the paparazzi. I am operating on the principle that Mauboy may have made a poor choice in his scan in order to help out the wolves. He obviously had much more confidence about how his reveal was going to work than he should have. You should be able to see that, and while I can see that it's in your interest as either villager or wolf to naysay it, I don't think you or anyone else should be discounting it completely.

I agree, I think mau made a mistake there as well. Where I think your logic loses the thread, though, is that you think one bad decision will be followed by another a half a day later. Consider mau. He hints at the seer on Day One. By the deadline of Day One, it's more or less the consensus that mau has revealed as the seer. He doesn't come back on to confirm and to offer up his scan choices for some time into Day Two (I remember, I was waiting to see what he would say), like half a day at least. The instant he "reveals" on Day One and the other wolves see what he is doing, you don't think they're in his ear about who to say he has scanned? Do you really see a veteran wolf saying, "mau, your fake reveal will eventually be revealed, so please tell the village you scanned me (Chief)?" Does that seem like a logical decision to you? Or do you really think the other wolves won't have been talking mau up quite a bit between his "reveal" and his announcement of who he scanned more than half a day later?

That said I don't want to seem like I have a crusade against you. I do however think there are arguments against you, and I keep seeing those get brushed away, which I Find strange or suspicious.

Not sure what game you're reading, because if arguments against me are being brushed away, you couldn't tell from the way my name keeps coming up and people keep coming at me.

I think it's undeniable that there are arguments against me. There are arguments against many here. I think it's silly, though, to use my decision to defend myself as a reason to then lynch me. As if it's less suspicious to sit idly by and let people build their theories on me without argument.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Chief, can you explain why you wouldn't vote Pass? I don't see anything at all particularly for or aagainst him.

Pass was obstinate, picking a fight and a little insulting in his pursuit of me, in a very public manner. Is that really the way you see Pass playing this game as a wolf?

If it was an all an act to hide in plain sight, kudos to him. He fooled me.

[Autumn]

If that's your defense of Pass, then, yes, I think he does that as a wolf. I think that's Pass whether he's villager or wolf.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I agree, I think mau made a mistake there as well. Where I think your logic loses the thread, though, is that you think one bad decision will be followed by another a half a day later.

This is the only point i want to respond to. It was like a day later or something that Mau revealed with his fake paparazzi role. So, yes, I think it is 100% certain that one bad decision could be followed by another a great deal of hours later. I think that fake role was a much worse decision than his initial reveal, and presumably his fellow wolves knew about it. So either his fellow wolves weren't involved in either decision, or they thought they were both great ideas. But there is no doubt that Mauboy could have made a poor scan choice given the certainty that he made a bad fake role choice.

That said, I haven't even voted you, Chief. But JAG at least has suggested you are the least likely of all suspects and I don't want that idea to gain much root in the village hive mind.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

If that's your defense of Pass, then, yes, I think he does that as a wolf. I think that's Pass whether he's villager or wolf.

With two wolves already down for the count, and risking polarizing the village into a Pass versus Chief situation? Pass might play with an edge, but that's just a suicidal play as a wolf. Even if he succeeds in getting me lynched, when I come up a villager, he's the next lynch.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Dola - I'm willing to be pretty open about what our team has been doing (and we are in first) if others are willing to share some details as well. I'm hoping to evaluate relative performances and better understand why teams are in the position they are.

If there is some wolf reward for being in first in the race I have inadvertently been aiding and abetting the enemy.

I don't necessarily think this is happening, but I want to rule it out. In an abstract sense, I'm surprised to be alive with Chief Rum on Day 6 and could use some help convincing myself that this is a good thing (ie - we're both villagers and just haven't fallen atop wolf priorities so far).

As EF said, tho. There are not events in the game that even out the pack like there are on the real amazing race. No flights that everybody has to be on. Thus when you leave you leave and when you hit the mat you hit the mat. Since you're out in first it's pretty easy to stay in top tier. As for my team, I've been doing giving all the instructions to EF and GE seems okay with that. (Take that however you want). Meaning he hasn't been giving EF any special wolf instructions unless he's doing that on the side privately. Regarding how we went from 7th to 2nd, we've gotten lucky the last couple legs with how well the pitstop tasks match the skills of GE and I. The first two legs they did not (7th and 5th)

[Autumn]

Mckerney's posts make me feel better about him (his day three posts). So I am likely to move my vote. Unfortunately I'm not sure where to go. Hoops/Chief/JAG/Pass seems the place to vote today. I agree with Chief that if he is a wolf, likely NTN is as well. I disagree with him how unlikely that scenario is, but I'm not sure I want to bark up that tree.

Unfortunately I don't have a real sense of who it might be between Hoops/JAG/Pass. And I worry that we're letting someone slip by among the others. I don't see any glaring reason not to vote one of these, luckily, but no glaring reason to pick one over the other.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

This is the only point i want to respond to. It was like a day later or something that Mau revealed with his fake paparazzi role. So, yes, I think it is 100% certain that one bad decision could be followed by another a great deal of hours later. I think that fake role was a much worse decision than his initial reveal, and presumably his fellow wolves knew about it. So either his fellow wolves weren't involved in either decision, or they thought they were both great ideas. But there is no doubt that Mauboy could have made a poor scan choice given the certainty that he made a bad fake role choice.

That said, I haven't even voted you, Chief. But JAG at least has suggested you are the least likely of all suspects and I don't want that idea to gain much root in the village hive mind.

I think we can both agree the second reveal was poorly done. mau was trying one last gasp to save himself there. But it's actually irrelevant to this discussion, because mau revealed his "scan" of me under the auspices of the first reveal (as a seer), not the second. mau made an unwise decison to hold himself off from being lynched on Day One by doing the early fake seer reveal when he probably should have just fallen on the sword.

You keep talking about mau's scans like they were real. It was all fake. There was no scan decision he made prior to the deadline, only whatever lie he would cook up hours later when he revealed his "scans". Your argument seems to be that the other wolves will have advised him it's a good idea to reveal that he scanned a fellow wolf (me, in your hypothetical) and reveal him as a villager. You know a wolf team isn't going to do that, and in particular, you know a wolf team with a veteran like me is not going to advise that.

You're really asking for us to believe some phenomenally dumb moves by every single wolf in the game if you think they decided to have mau try to hide a wolf behind a fake seer scan on Day One.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Pass was obstinate, picking a fight and a little insulting in his pursuit of me, in a very public manner. Is that really the way you see Pass playing this game as a wolf?

Absolutely.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Danny

Based on what I'm seeing, the vote is going to end up 2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1

And the person with the "2" will play their immunity idol!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Absolutely.

Well, then, guess I am fooled. If Pass is a wolf in this game, I'll probably vote for him on Day One by rote from now on.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

A few reasons for my vote today (and I apologize for not being around much last night or today)

-His quick switch off mau on day 1 when other candidates popped up.
-His quick jump on Jackal on day 2 when Lathum brought him up.
-His "pile-on" vote of mau to basically hide his vote on the day mau was lynched.
-He has been fairly quiet most of the game, staying under-the-radar

VOTE NTNDEACON

Everyone always looks at people that "make swtiches and moves" as wolves. I think wolves vote and stay where they are no matter what happens. Even if a wolf ends up being the top votegetter they would hang them out to dry. At least I know some people play this way. I don't think random switches always mean anything especially when there is no clear way to go (like day 1)

Incidently ntn is ALWAYS quiet and under the radar. That's why it's so hard to tell if he's a wolf (and for some reason equally hard to lynch)

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Well, then, guess I am fooled. If Pass is a wolf in this game, I'll probably vote for him on Day One by rote from now on.

Good plan.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think we can both agree the second reveal was poorly done. mau was trying one last gasp to save himself there. But it's actually irrelevant to this discussion, because mau revealed his "scan" of me under the auspices of the first reveal (as a seer), not the second. mau made an unwise decison to hold himself off from being lynched on Day One by doing the early fake seer reveal when he probably should have just fallen on the sword.

You keep talking about mau's scans like they were real. It was all fake. There was no scan decision he made prior to the deadline, only whatever lie he would cook up hours later when he revealed his "scans". Your argument seems to be that the other wolves will have advised him it's a good idea to reveal that he scanned a fellow wolf (me, in your hypothetical) and reveal him as a villager. You know a wolf team isn't going to do that, and in particular, you know a wolf team with a veteran like me is not going to advise that.

You're really asking for us to believe some phenomenally dumb moves by every single wolf in the game if you think they decided to have mau try to hide a wolf behind a fake seer scan on Day One.

I'm not sure why you're arguing this point, you don't seem to understand me. I don't in any sense think that Mauboy's scan was real. I'm suggesting that it's possible he used his fake scan to try to buy trust for a wolf. While this would normally be a sketchy idea he made two other sketchy choices - one to reveal as the seer on day one, the second even sketchier to make up a fake role to suggest he wasn't the seer, that on day two or three. So I'm saying there is plenty of evidence of him making bad wolf decisions, decisions placed at least a day apart, leaving plenty of time for supposed guidance from the other wolves.

So, while I agree that it is unlikely a wolf team with a veteran wolf would advise "scanning" a wolf, I also believe a veteran wolf team would not suggest he make up a fake role. So either this is not a veteran wolf team, or he was not listening to his wolf team. If so then all bets are off on why he made his fake scan decision.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Not to be a prick but please no more bolded votes from players that are out of the WW portion of the game but still in the race... Thank you.

I skip over anything not bolded when looking at the votes so it doesn't matter to me if you say it just don't bold it please.

(trying to keep it as easy on myself as possible when trying to recalculate the votes later)

I think Danny is suspicious for trying to confuse EF. Better vote for him as a wolf again just to be sure.

[Autumn]

Looks like we have a vote on pass, a vote on NTN, and my vote. I'm taking it off of Mckerney to one of Jag, Chief, Hoops or Pass. I'm not going to vote Chief right now as I feel our arguing has clouded things there. I think these four make better targets right now than NTN, so I'm not going to second Pass. So it's either JAG or Hoops. This is pretty much a toss-up to me.

UNVOTE MCKERNEY

[CrimsonFox]

JAG:Was quiet until we said he was quiet, now is playing Chief inspector. Trying to "look good" perhaps? (No, Jag we will NEVER be happy! )
CR: I had my suspicions, but now he seems pretty good. No real idea here.
ntn: Absolutely no idea. It is impossible to tell if ntn is a wolf by what he says. Only thing to look at is his voting and everyone says that is solid villager.
PF: Really have no read on him. He hasn't said a lot. He definitely could be a wolf, possibly brutal.
cougarfreak: HIs one outburst when he voted seemed odd to me. I haven't looked at his voting but I think he is a good wolf candidate. Can easily play the "I'm new" card and legitimately get away with it.
GE: Can only be the cunning. He MIGHT be the cunning. But not worth voting for, as has been said before, especially with the scan.
mckerney: Not sure. I thought mck was clear especially for starting the mau brigade the day of his lynch. Or perhaps the wolves were tired of mau and wanted to get rid of him or thought it was funny. But really I can't see them STARTING the roll of votes, just jumping on after it was started.
hoops: Thanks to the "hoops legend" where people get rid of him day 1-2, I have never actually played a game this long with hoops in either form. SO I really have no idea what he's like. He seems villagerish, but I think at least one of the wolves is a superlongtime player for sure. This could be him.
Pass: Erratic and outbursty. Accusatory and borderline dick about his accusations. I learned from KWhit that this strategy does work sometimes as a wolf.
Autumn: He's been the good guy sherlock holmes the whole game. Thing is, he always has very concise and good information most games I've seen him. He also fits the longtime player thing. I see this as being a strong possibility.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I'm not sure why you're arguing this point, you don't seem to understand me. I don't in any sense think that Mauboy's scan was real. I'm suggesting that it's possible he used his fake scan to try to buy trust for a wolf. While this would normally be a sketchy idea he made two other sketchy choices - one to reveal as the seer on day one, the second even sketchier to make up a fake role to suggest he wasn't the seer, that on day two or three. So I'm saying there is plenty of evidence of him making bad wolf decisions, decisions placed at least a day apart, leaving plenty of time for supposed guidance from the other wolves.

So, while I agree that it is unlikely a wolf team with a veteran wolf would advise "scanning" a wolf, I also believe a veteran wolf team would not suggest he make up a fake role. So either this is not a veteran wolf team, or he was not listening to his wolf team. If so then all bets are off on why he made his fake scan decision.

No, I am understanding you perfectly. I just don't buy what you're selling.

Mau makes three key decisions. He hints at being the seer an hour or two before deadline on Day One. Then around midday on Day Two he reveals his scan (me). Then either late on Day Two or on Day Three (I forget which, I think it was early Day Three) he revealed he isn't the seer, but some special role with limited "film scan" abilities.

I believe mau made the first decision on his own. He was feeling the heat and up for the lynch. He didn't want to go down first day as a wolf. So he did the fake seer reveal. This is actually not that bad of a move; while it's certain he will eventually get caught, it probably buys him at least a day and might even get the real seer to reveal.

It's the "scan" decision where you completely lose me. So here we are, mau is thought to be the seer and now the village is clamoring for his seer scan. It is more than half a day later; plenty of time for the remaining wolves to be pinging him with PMs about what he should say. I am supposed to be one of those wolves in your scenario. You're saying that they are telling him to use his "scan" to hide a wolf--knowing he will soon be revealed--knowing his scans will be scrutinized for exactly the play you're suggesting. This is my disconnect. No way they tell him to do that. And with them telling him this, I don't believe mau just does this on his own. He won't willfully implicate a fellow wolf with his scan against the wishes of his fellow wolves.

His third decision was probably his own, but I think he only did it because he knew the gig was about up, with the seer not being targeted on Night Two. He was trying to find some other way to talk himself out of his earlier reveal. Well, villager didn't buy it. It wasn't really a very good decision, but his options were limited at this point. There was no way he was going to avoid being outted in the long run.

I see what you're saying. I just don't see a wolf team with me on that team--or any other moderately veteran wolf--making that scan decision, nor do I see mau willfully going against his fellow wolves' wishes in that situation.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Looks like we have a vote on pass, a vote on NTN, and my vote. I'm taking it off of Mckerney to one of Jag, Chief, Hoops or Pass. I'm not going to vote Chief right now as I feel our arguing has clouded things there. I think these four make better targets right now than NTN, so I'm not going to second Pass. So it's either JAG or Hoops. This is pretty much a toss-up to me.

UNVOTE MCKERNEY

Actually to be fair, I apologize if you see this as arguing per say (witht he negative connotations thereof). I don't deny there was ugliness between me and Pass yesterday. I honestly believe you buy into what you're saying and we just have a disagreement here about how to interpret it. I view our discussion here as a rational one bringing in evidentiary points on each of our sides.

That doesn't mean it doesn't cloud things, but just to show you, I don't view our discussion here in a negative light like I did yesterday's tiff with Pass.