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View Poll Results: How is Obama doing? (poll started 6/6) | |||
Great - above my expectations | 18 | 6.87% | |
Good - met most of my expectations | 66 | 25.19% | |
Average - so so, disappointed a little | 64 | 24.43% | |
Bad - sold us out | 101 | 38.55% | |
Trout - don't know yet | 13 | 4.96% | |
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools |
08-11-2011, 07:36 AM | #15301 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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One of the things we could do with a little money is start painting flat tar roofs white in every city in the U.S. It wouldn't take training and could start almost immediately. It would also have the benefit of lowering energy usage.
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08-11-2011, 08:08 AM | #15302 | |
Pro Starter
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Location: Cary, NC
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Quote:
I'd be all for dropping unemployment and putting these people to work on the infrastructure improvements so we get something back for the money.
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08-11-2011, 08:31 AM | #15303 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Quote:
Exactly....stop paying people to sit at home and pay them to do something. It defies logic to do otherwise. I was watching one of the morning cable news networks the other morning (MSNBC or CNN...I forget but thinking it was Scarborough/MSNBC) and it was suggested that Obama hold another business summit of sorts to get business leaders' ideas and thoughts on how to get the economy moving. I found it interesting when the (liberal) pundit suggested that even liberal-leaning business leaders think its a waste of time to go to these since Obama doesn't seem to grasp how and why jobs would be created by these same business leaders. More to the effect of...Obama comes in and starts lecturing everybody to "Start hiring people" rather than actually trying to understand why any of them would take on additional overhead costs. Could have been a self-important pundit trying to appear to have some great insight...but it doesn't seem unlikely given the results he's had so far. While I was not convinced Obama would be capable of doing great things, I did think he was a very intelligent man that could grasp the intricacies of the economy when focusing on it (and of course, having legitimate experts at his disposal). I also thought he would see the economy as his mission to "fix"...and even if that led to some things I wouldn't normally support...thought that he would get it back on the right track. But I'm not so sure he is humble enough to engage at the necessary levels for some reason. Maybe that's what the disconnect from reality is...and why he hasn't made the right choices & priorities. |
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08-11-2011, 08:56 AM | #15304 | ||
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Quote:
You are right about that but I was thinking in terms of real prices of necessities like grain foods. Its a sweeping generalization and hard to apply across the board. But I agree, the relative prices would go down for most items, but probably go up for others for the same reason you noted on the number of people consuming the item or service. Basically...the industries the government keeps alive through subsidies will likely go up relative to incomes while the things the government is transparent to will likely go down or remain flat. Quote:
I couldn't agree more on college costs being in a bubble. I don't have the time to write the manifesto I have in my head on this subject but to summarize...I think the way we educate our workforce has to change. I think we really need to begin identifying skills that can be more OJT and what truly requires dedicated classroom sessions. Certainly both of those have some overlap into the other but I think there are a lot of skills and education that we simply don't need to learn away from the workplace. |
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08-11-2011, 09:15 AM | #15305 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
The most obvious question that comes to mind here is "under what authority would they paint a privately owned roof?" A few others, seemingly obvious as well -- How much do you figure it'll cost to settle the litigation from "workers" who are injured on the job, traumatized by various aspects of the job, etc? -- Why are you rewarding property owners who didn't paint their own roof with a free paint job? Once again, the gov't screws someone who did it right. -- Where are you going to find a paint company that doesn't have some connection to an elected official, since we know there'll be a hue & cry raised about whoever ends up with the contract to provide the paint (no matter which side ends up doing the howling) -- Does the gov't then get to claim the revenue tied to the energy savings, at least until they recover the cost of the paint job? And that's just for starters without even trying.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-11-2011, 09:27 AM | #15306 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
The building where my winery is now located is a former orphan home and communal poor home. The poor people who stayed in the building had to work 8-10 hour days to assure themselves of room and board. There were some volunteers, but the vast majority of the work was done by those in need. I think anything that moves us back towards that line of thinking would be a good thing. |
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08-11-2011, 09:50 AM | #15307 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Yep..."work" doesn't always have to mean "digging holes". It can take a lot of forms and still provide more value than merely sitting at home for 10 extra weeks because nobody will hire you.
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08-11-2011, 10:29 AM | #15308 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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Quote:
He's definitely further to the left than he was in 1988. Back then, he was certainly not the same guy that ended up endorsing Howard Dean in 2004. And in what ways was he more conservative than Bush? He engaged in the same kind of class warfare that every Democrat does. I remember the constant refrain of how the top 1% has half the money. He wanted to eliminate DADT. Opposed Bush's desire to privatize social security. Promised to appoint pro-choice judges.
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Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
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08-11-2011, 10:41 AM | #15309 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
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There's a huge workforce sitting in our prisons doing nothing. Cheap labor right there and hey, they might even learn a new skill besides crime.
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I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4 |
08-11-2011, 11:36 AM | #15310 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
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Not only do you run into the NIMBYs (They might escape!) There are other costs in transporting and guarding them, etcetera.
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08-11-2011, 11:37 AM | #15311 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Quote:
There are always going to be reasons not to do something and I wouldn't suggest a program like this with unemployment at 5 or 6%. At some point you need to decide if you would rather hire people even with difficulties or wait a decade for things to pick up on their own. I'd rather do something that puts people to work and lowers our energy usage over doing nothing because it's easier.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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08-11-2011, 11:49 AM | #15312 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
But (in all seriousness) how do you propose to get around lacking the authority to climb up on anybody's roof & paint it? Seems like there's an almost guaranteed constitutional challenge to something like that in simplest form. The closest to straightforward thing I can think of would be a grant program (I've seen similar efforts at state/local levels, a facade grant to pay part of the cost for repairing aging buildings comes to mind).
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-11-2011, 11:59 AM | #15313 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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He didn't say every roof in every city, just roofs in every city. Even at just a 20% participation rate, I'm sure that would be enough to keep workers hopping for quite a while.
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
08-11-2011, 12:01 PM | #15314 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Just make it voluntary. It's not that hard.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
08-11-2011, 12:07 PM | #15315 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
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So, locally our good-ol' governor, who has a budget crisis and has had to lay off teachers, has decided to mandate that HHS offer pre-K to all 4 year olds. First, she's handing it to HHS instead of the department of education, which I find interesting, although maybe her primary goal is to make sure kids are potty-trained by the time they hit Kindergarten (I've heard anecdotally this can actually be an issue in some areas). Second, by gosh we'll make sure the 4-year-olds are ready, but there won't be any teachers waiting for them when they hit elementary school, since we don't have the funds for that right now.
Mind you, instituting programs like this is a big reason our state budget balooned over the last decade or so...
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08-11-2011, 12:11 PM | #15316 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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That's not what you said originally (translation: that's definitely not how I interpreted what you said). That addresses the question I asked so I'll save the rant about what a gross misuse of taxpayer dollars that would be, rewarding people for not doing something that is entirely their personal responsibility ... at least until anyone in DC proposes such a thing
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 08-11-2011 at 12:11 PM. |
08-11-2011, 01:04 PM | #15317 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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If you're more worried about fair than getting the economy back on its feet, we'll be stuck for years. Any measure that's going to help is going to be somewhat unfair. I'll reward building owners that should have painted their own roof if it helps fill the 500 billion dollar gap in taxes missing from the recession.
We can't get to a balanced budget without fixing the economy.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
08-11-2011, 01:22 PM | #15318 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Here is Mark Cuban's plan:
An Idea for the Economy that will Freak Out a lot of People but could be Fun to Discuss. « blog maverick |
08-11-2011, 01:28 PM | #15319 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
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Quote:
We already play that game. Dell had to pay back tax breaks they got in coming to North Carolina because they pulled out never having met their job creation goals.
__________________
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08-11-2011, 01:35 PM | #15320 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
He wanted to pay down the debt with the surplus we had. Bush wanted to lower taxes and run up debt. This was their biggest difference financially, although there were many others. Gore was much more fiscally conservative than Bush. On social issues, he was moderate at worst. Pro death penalty, decent on gun rights, pro prayer in school, against gay marriage, pro-abstinence education, and held a lot of the same religuous views of Bush. Outside of a couple social issues, he was more of a Republican (well what they like to think they are) than Bush was. |
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08-11-2011, 01:39 PM | #15321 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
I don't know how practical any of the ideas are, but I think it's a good time to be throwing ideas out there. We should be trying to figure out ways we can make things better. Last edited by RainMaker : 08-11-2011 at 01:44 PM. |
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08-11-2011, 02:05 PM | #15322 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Quote:
His analysis of the problem is so spot on I get goosebumps. Not so sure about the solution. I could be wrong, but I don't think the criteria of company he suggests is having as many issues borrowing money to create jobs. In other words...its the <100 person startups that need the money to create more jobs. The big corporations have plenty of cash on hand to do whatever...they just don't see opportunity. And I realize he's speaking in terms of negative yields...but I think thats more chicken & egg...the negative yields are there because nobody wants to use their cash OR borrow. I'm coming to the conclusion that the only way to turn the economy around inside of 10-15 years is to legislate it into recovery. and by that, I don't mean to have the government actually spend us into recovery...I mean to force us (collectively including corporations) to spend ourselves into recovery. Last edited by SteveMax58 : 08-11-2011 at 02:07 PM. Reason: butchering |
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08-11-2011, 02:19 PM | #15323 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Quote:
I agree that he has a very good read of the situation. I also agree that it is not the large businesses that need the help, it is the small businesses. |
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08-11-2011, 02:26 PM | #15324 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Anyone else getting whiplash from the massive stock market swings the past week? It's like a Rocky fight.
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08-11-2011, 03:28 PM | #15325 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
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Quote:
There would definitely be some of the NIMBY stuff, but, you're paying these guys 25 cents an hour compared to whatever the going rate is in the private sector, I think you would actually save money. My only concern would be the quality of the workmanship and some subterfuge like in Bridge Over the River Kwai. It's not perfect, but, what is?
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I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4 |
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08-11-2011, 03:59 PM | #15326 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
Now there's an idea: use the point of a gun to mandate bad business decisions
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-11-2011, 04:05 PM | #15327 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
The biggest problem for me is how to determine who deserves it. There are some really bad business ideas out there. And I'm sure there are some really good ones. Are we funding a guy's horrible idea just for the hell of it? I've heard some other ideas about giving credits toward new hires. If an employee is hired and is there for a year, you get a $10,000 tax credit or something. |
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08-11-2011, 08:40 PM | #15328 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Quote:
Hehe...well, more about legislating standards which drive us to produce new goods & services type stuff. Such as requiring energy providers to be X% (pick the sensible number there) supplying sustainable energy sources (note I didn't necessarily state green). IDK really...damned if we do, damned if we don't. |
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08-11-2011, 09:13 PM | #15329 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2001
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My recovery recipe:
1. Stop all the other current tax gimmicks and give businesses a tax credit incentive where they get a pro-rated annual credit for every employee (not just new ones, all of them) up to a cap set somewhere around 80-100,000. For best results make it a progressive scale with a higher relative credit for below 50,000, another tier to about 70,000, and then the top tier with the lowest ratio. Make this credit significant and take all others off of the table (kill the loopholes to massively increase revenue, then revert it back to neutral in a way that directly subsidizes employment). This provides a simple and direct correlation between tax cuts and jobs, without encouraging waste assuming the credit is not set to something absurd (employees also deduct as an expense off the top to begin with of course, the credit is to reduce the relative cost of labor to capital or work supplies). Useless workers will not be hired, but if the credit is set to the appropriate level any business that can increase its marginal returns from more workers will be pushed into the green. Companies that are cash rich and worker poor will have to pay taxes, so revenues will be boosted. And it is very easy to set this up so it is too transparent to be gamed (of course our government loves secrecy so they can screw us). 2. Technology, its the only way to get growth of the form we really want, and its our best strength anyhow. This isn't just throw a bunch of money at research projects, this means aggressively pushing quality standards to get businesses to innovate and economize and compete with foreign outfits that will not or can't. Any factory in latest third world slave state can put out standard quality junk, high tech stuff still can be created in the states at a profitable margin. 3. Infrastructure, don't just go 'shovel-ready', build something that is state of the art. Roads out of materials that won't fall apart for years and can handle traffic loads without warping and needing to be replaced every five years with the 'cheap' material (labor costs outstrip anything anyone ever thought of saving from using the cheap stuff they slap on roads these days or the quick fixes that bust every year into new potholes). Critical roads, rail transport (for cargo, not people, most cost efficient), energy grid, waterway quality, chemical pipelines (i.e. force them to be up to code and not cause massive oil spills), and computers computers computers... get the software so we can make those federal and state workers more obsolete (sorry, but I'm sick of paying the checks for the incompetent and rude DMV worker or city clerk lackey that can't process a form a computer can do at 10,000 per minute...). A significant investment now not only creates jobs, it gives cost savings and increased commerce that can increase revenues for decades (all those highways no doubt played a role in anyone and everyone clamoring for an automobile and all the money that generated in the economy). 4. Make health care competitive. Again, computers and paperwork reduction (it still is at 30% of all costs going to overhead, although some segments show these numbers dropping dramatically). Reign in the imaginary numbers of costs, doctors charging $10 per ibuprofen pill so they can balance out their books... align prices to the true cost of providing the service and make it transparent as all hell and you start to control that spiral where it can be controlled. Find ways to cut medical spending at the supply side so the cuts on the demand side that we all know are coming do not get sucked up by out of control medical inflation resulting more from bad policy than the cost of labor or supplies increasing. I think all four of those together could move a whole lot of sectors in the right direction and make the debt picture look better in the long term by attacking debt that is generated by increasing costs. Enforcing technology standards for instance is cheap (in government dollars, yes businesses will have to spend, but it will be the price of access to the all powerful American consumer market, we better use that advantage while we still have it). |
08-11-2011, 09:34 PM | #15330 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dayton, Ohio
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Ron Paul is dominating this debate, imo. Too bad for that gold thingy.
Last edited by Scoobz0202 : 08-11-2011 at 09:34 PM. |
08-11-2011, 09:41 PM | #15331 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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08-11-2011, 09:44 PM | #15332 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
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08-11-2011, 11:40 PM | #15333 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
I'm fine with that part ... having so many beliefs that are either utterly insane (non intervention, anti-security) morally/ethically unacceptable (drugs) or both are what kill this nutjob. And that ain't exactly an easy thing to do with me, considering how many things he's on the right side of.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-11-2011, 11:48 PM | #15334 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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I heard Rick Santorum was awesome again. No Abortions, ever. And we need to keep sucking Israel's dick. Plus something about the pending threat of Polygamy.
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08-12-2011, 12:26 AM | #15335 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Heh, good line from the AJC's token conservative blogger
Quote:
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-12-2011, 01:45 AM | #15336 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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I thought the Bachmann-Pawlenty exchange was a mixed bag. Got Pawlenty on the national map a bit and I think Bachmann came across strong in her initial response. But having two candidates point out the flaws in each other likely doesn't bode well long term for them.
Cain seemed woefully out of his league. Bombed hard on the tax holiday question and for whatever reason Fox went after him real hard. Thought Gingrich got the shaft a bit by the campaign question and thought he was right to hit back at it. |
08-12-2011, 06:57 AM | #15337 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Yep. I don't understand why all the candidates don't want to spend more on the war on drugs. A) It's been a colossal success. B) We have so much money to spend that it couldn't hurt to throw more money at it. C) Social engineering always works. D) Jesus said so somewhere in the Bible. I guess he could lie like the other candidates and say something along the lines of "Yes, I experiemented with drugs like a lot of people do but now to appeal to the nutcases on the far right I will act like I am against it and pledge to put more brown people in jail" Then we can all pay to house them in jail and when they get out can pay their welfare. Glad people like the nutjob Ron Paul have no chance in such a progressive, enlightened party. Good luck for Bachmann or Romney. Paul said he is going to retire from the house after this term so I can't wait for him to run as an independent and annihilate those faux conservatives. At least this thread will last another 4 years. |
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08-12-2011, 07:51 AM | #15338 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Nobody wants to vote for Ron Paul. He can't break 10% in primaries and he won't do better as an independent. Whether you like him or not, you need to realize his vote totals aren't the result of a conspiracy. Most people don't like what he's selling.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
08-12-2011, 07:57 AM | #15339 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Just like my debt ceiling wager. If Paul runs as Libertarian I predict 5% or higher. Friendly wager? I never said he was going to win I said he will fuck over the faux conservative candidate. And with how close the elections seem to be lately no doubt that 5% would. (And I think I am entitled to argue points that the Democrats used to care about. Don't you wish Obama actually cared about cutting the wars down or not putting 25% of the minorities in prison to appease the rednecks?) |
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08-12-2011, 07:59 AM | #15340 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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And I honestly don't think its a conspiracy. I think the American public has a lot of really fucking stupid people...
Most Americans take Bible stories literally - Washington Times |
08-12-2011, 08:30 AM | #15341 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Straw poll
msnbc.com politics - Who do you think won the GOP presidential candidates' debate? Quote:
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08-12-2011, 08:35 AM | #15342 | |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bahston Mass
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Quote:
http://swampland.time.com/2011/08/12...#ixzz1UozJ3UNT
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There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think |
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08-12-2011, 09:05 AM | #15343 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
I realize that Paul has a very dedicated following and will not equal those numbers at all in the general election. That said I find it funny that when I went to read coverage of the debate there was the obvious Bachman/Romney stuff but also Santorum ripping on Paul. Because that is who people are behind! |
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08-13-2011, 05:49 PM | #15344 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I don't know much about her but it'll be interesting to learn more about her this year.
Republican Presidential Hopefuls Await Results of Iowa Straw Poll - FoxNews.com Quote:
Last edited by Edward64 : 08-13-2011 at 05:49 PM. |
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08-13-2011, 09:40 PM | #15345 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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I read that since 1979 the Iowa winner has finished first or second in the straw poll.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
08-13-2011, 10:20 PM | #15346 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Colorado
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08-13-2011, 11:59 PM | #15347 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Quote:
I can't believe Bachmann won the straw poll. I do wonder if Rick Perry takes the top mantle thought now he's in. Last edited by Galaxy : 08-13-2011 at 11:59 PM. |
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08-14-2011, 08:15 AM | #15348 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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We were talking about this at work last week - suspecting someone from S&P organization had profited and wanting to see record of their investments ... glad to see the SEC investigating this.
Who started the S&P downgrade rumor? - Aug. 12, 2011 Quote:
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08-14-2011, 08:22 AM | #15349 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Hey, definitely a tangent but sorry couldn't resist. Catching up on news and saw this ... have to play the video ... pretty cool.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/.../?iid=HP_River Quote:
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08-14-2011, 10:15 AM | #15350 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Colorado
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