The Official MLB 2007 Thread

[rkmsuf]

so what, he's saying the yankers are going to make a big run?

[Ksyrup]

Ben (NYC): Rob, which BP postseason odds should I believe: standard, PECOTA-adujusted, or ELO-adjusted? The ELO-adjusted projections give the Yankees the best chance, not that you should choose those just to appease me or anything...

Rob Neyer: Ben, I don't have the foggiest idea. I wish BP would run just one of those reports, or at the very least, tell us which one of them has most accurately predicted the future. However you slice it, though, the Yankees have something 1-in-5 or 1-in-6 chance of making the playoffs, based purely on their current personnel.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

In his defense, (a) he's writing for his audience, and (b) that was the second question/comment of the chat about the same thing.

The questions are picked for a reason - I guarantee you there are good questions not being responded to. They pick the questions to make the average baseball fan look dumb, and Neyer look smart. His whole schtick is "if you don't agree with everything I say you're an idiot."

[Ksyrup]

No, I don't think that's his schtick at all. In fact, if you read his blog, most of the time he specifically defers to others and gives credit for their research/thoughts on subjects, often with a sense of self-deprication. And mostly, he throws stuff out there without really coming to a definitive conclusion, leaving it to the reader to determine the import of the discussion points.

But there's no doubt that during chats, he definitely is entertaining with the zingers. And those kinds of posts usually deserve them. From the ongoing discussion about a particular poster getting 3-4 posts every chat, I get the impression he's just answering what they give him, so if someone is pulling the strings, I'm fairly certain it's not him.

[ISiddiqui]

In addition that question was deserving of said response. When someone says that "the dumbest stat I've ever seen", I think the response is warrented.

I've always like Neyer and I think he did no wrong with that one.

[Brillig]

Crap, the Giants finally won a game. Now watch Brian Sabean trade Tim Lincecum for a 40-year old minor leaguer and a bag of Corn-Nuts.

A jumbo size bag, he's not an idiot.

[Ksyrup]

Now here's a great line from Neyer in a recent blog piece:


As Tom Haudricort reports, Weeks has been benched in favor of that ambiguously major league duo, Tony Graffanino and Craig Counsell.

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2941209

ATLANTA -- Julio Franco will get another chance to swing the bat in the big leagues.

The 48-year-old utilityman signed with Atlanta on Wednesday, rejoining the Braves a week after he was cut by the New York Mets.

Franco cleared waivers during the Braves' game against Cincinnati. Atlanta signed him for the rest of the season and said he would be activated for Thursday night's game against St. Louis.

Franco, who turns 49 next month, played for the Braves in a backup role from 2001-05. He is a 24-year veteran with 2,576 career hits and is a lifetime .298 hitter.

He hit just .200 (10-for-50) with one homer as a reserve with the Mets. Franco will serve in the same capacity for Atlanta.

This season, Franco became the oldest player to hit a home run in major-league history. He has said he would like to play until he turns 50.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2941209

Yes!

[Ksyrup]

You should change your screen name to JulioFranc.

[miami_fan]

I see that Derek Lee has dropped his appeal and will serve his suspension from his brawl on June 16th. IIRC he would have had to wait until the next time he was in New York to have his appeal heard by MLB. Is this still the case and if it is, has MLB not heard of video conferencing?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

You should change your screen name to JulioFranc.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

You should change your screen name to JulioFranc.

I indeed might... stupid Vick ruining my online name. Although my first name isn't Julio, and my middle name isn't Franctor.

Guess I should start thinking of alternate online names though.

[Ksyrup]

Marcus Thames just made a great diving catch in the 8th, but appears to have hurt his leg/knee. I couldn't tell what his problem was, but it looked like his knee flopped around pretty good as he hit on the turf.

EDIT: Looks like a hamstring, so hopefully nothing big.

[Neuqua]

Ugh, Bonds has been a one man wrecking crew today, just hit his second homerun of the game.

[ISiddiqui]

Dat guy hit good!

[Karlifornia]

He may get another at-bat.....

[Ksyrup]

Didn't his attorney say that they expected word by the end of this week as to whether he would be indicted for perjury? Wouldn't it be something if he gets indicted the day he ties or breaks the record?

[Brillig]

The grand jury term expires today, I think. So unless it's extended, if there's going to be an indictment, it should be by close of business.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Didn't his attorney say that they expected word by the end of this week as to whether he would be indicted for perjury? Wouldn't it be something if he gets indicted the day he ties or breaks the record?

No, it wouldn't. You take way too much glee in this stuff...

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by Brillig

The grand jury term expires today, I think. So unless it's extended, if there's going to be an indictment, it should be by close of business.

Apparently the term's been extended. I say apparently because the local news is inferring this from the fact that Greg Anderson hasn't been released.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Didn't his attorney say that they expected word by the end of this week as to whether he would be indicted for perjury? Wouldn't it be something if he gets indicted the day he ties or breaks the record?

Better if it stops him at least one short.

In my books anyway.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Travis

Better if it stops him at least one short.

In my books anyway.

Prepare to be dissapointed

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Prepare to be dissapointed

Oh I'm fully prepared. I've been continually dissapointed by MLB ever since it started turning into a glorified home run derby.

[miami_fan]

Wait a minute, Julio Franco can't get off of the Mets bench but he can start for the Braves?

[Chief Rum]

I always find it funny that when someone speaks up for Bonds, it is inevitably a Giants fan or a Bay Area resident. We all stick up for our guys, but I would think there would be a line where you wouldn't do it just for the uniform anymore. If Bonds were an Angel, I would nevertheless boo him mercilessly.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

No, it wouldn't. You take way too much glee in this stuff...

Glee? All I said is wouldn't it be something - like, a major coincidence that the two events might occur one right after the other. What am I supposed to be happy about, anyway? However you slice it, the terrorists win.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I always find it funny that when someone speaks up for Bonds, it is inevitably a Giants fan or a Bay Area resident. We all stick up for our guys, but I would think there would be a line where you wouldn't do it just for the uniform anymore. If Bonds were an Angel, I would nevertheless boo him mercilessly.

Shit, I liked the guy when he was in Pittsburgh, and I'd like him even if he was playing for the Rally Monkeys. So much for that. I admire a guy who's intelligent, plays hard, and has been probably the greatest baseball player I (or most of us) will ever see. Every would-be "Brahmin" that Bonds offends, every moralizing blowhard sportswriter w(especially those who believes that character assignation should be reciprocated with goodwill)- well, those are all bonus points in my book.

[JS19]

Slugfest in LA tonight between the Mets and Dodgers. Glavine going for his 299th win, given a 6-0 lead before he takes the mound and can only make it 2 innings.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I always find it funny that when someone speaks up for Bonds, it is inevitably a Giants fan or a Bay Area resident. We all stick up for our guys, but I would think there would be a line where you wouldn't do it just for the uniform anymore. If Bonds were an Angel, I would nevertheless boo him mercilessly.

I'm a Blue Jays fan and I would've paid him $18m for one season, rather than paying Frank Thomas that for two.

I don't think he's evil like some do and I don't care that he's not personable, that he's viewed as a jerk and that people think he cheated. None of it matters to me, really.

He's the greatest hitter of our generation and it was a delight to see him (hit a homer, no less) in person in St. Louis during the year he was breaking the single-season record.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I always find it funny that when someone speaks up for Bonds, it is inevitably a Giants fan or a Bay Area resident. We all stick up for our guys, but I would think there would be a line where you wouldn't do it just for the uniform anymore. If Bonds were an Angel, I would nevertheless boo him mercilessly.

It's always nice when one of the biggest homers ever calls other people out on their homerism.


Look at this way. Even if Bonds juiced every day he was in a Giants uniform, which he may or may not have, he's risking his health to make a team I pull for have a better chance to win. Besides, it's not like everyone else wasn't doing it. I find it funny that people from other teams get all pissy when odds are right around 100% that someone they've pulled for in the past used a PED.

And, look, it's not like Bonds juiced for a year and won MVP, like Ken Caminiti and his laced Snickers bar. Bonds was winning MVP's way before he bulked up. Does 40/40 mean anything to you? At worst, he knew what the other guys were doing, and did it to keep up. Except he's leaps and bounds better than everyone else, so when he does it, he outdoes whatever everyone else who was on the juice did.

He's not a rapist, wife-beater, deadbeat dad, dog-fighting promoter, drunk driver, or lawbreaker in any other way. Steroids=victimless crime. If someone chooses to drink themselves to death a la Nic Cage in Leaving Las Vegas, fine. If someone chooses to do something that hurts nobody else at all, and they are fine with the risks they are taking, fine.

Barry Bonds has provided me with so many moments of pure glee, joy, and amazement past the years where I supposed to feel those childish ways. Do I want those memories erased because he might have done what most other ballplayers were doing? No.

Let's take a look at why anabolic steriods are illegal at all in the first place. Is it because of health concerns? Well, then any fellow libertarian should be pro-steroids....because you should be able to monitor what you as long as it doesn't harm others. It's your freedom as an adult.

God...the morality police are annoying as hell. Don't tell any of us who we should or shouldn't pull for. Get off the soapbox.

[k0ruptr]

hmm, I thought about this for a second and Frank Thomas is a much better deal for half the price.

[k0ruptr]

Besides, Frank was always huge

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

It's always nice when one of the biggest homers ever calls other people out on their homerism.


Look at this way. Even if Bonds juiced every day he was in a Giants uniform, which he may or may not have, he's risking his health to make a team I pull for have a better chance to win. Besides, it's not like everyone else wasn't doing it. I find it funny that people from other teams get all pissy when odds are right around 100% that someone they've pulled for in the past used a PED.

And, look, it's not like Bonds juiced for a year and won MVP, like Ken Caminiti and his laced Snickers bar. Bonds was winning MVP's way before he bulked up. Does 40/40 mean anything to you? At worst, he knew what the other guys were doing, and did it to keep up. Except he's leaps and bounds better than everyone else, so when he does it, he outdoes whatever everyone else who was on the juice did.

He's not a rapist, wife-beater, deadbeat dad, dog-fighting promoter, drunk driver, or lawbreaker in any other way. Steroids=victimless crime. If someone chooses to drink themselves to death a la Nic Cage in Leaving Las Vegas, fine. If someone chooses to do something that hurts nobody else at all, and they are fine with the risks they are taking, fine.

Barry Bonds has provided me with so many moments of pure glee, joy, and amazement past the years where I supposed to feel those childish ways. Do I want those memories erased because he might have done what most other ballplayers were doing? No.

Let's take a look at why anabolic steriods are illegal at all in the first place. Is it because of health concerns? Well, then any fellow libertarian should be pro-steroids....because you should be able to monitor what you as long as it doesn't harm others. It's your freedom as an adult.

God...the morality police are annoying as hell. Don't tell any of us who we should or shouldn't pull for. Get off the soapbox.

Well, that's some fine rationalizin' you doin' there. Keep it up!

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Well, that's some fine rationalizin' you doin' there. Keep it up!

haha...maybe so....but at least my favorite teams aren't the forgotten siblings of more interesting local franchises.

[Chief Rum]

And admitted homer though I am, I regularly call a turd a turd when I see one, particularly on my own teams. See my thoughts on Santana with the Angels, Pronger with the Ducks, do a search for my Lavin tirade from UCLA a few years back, or even look in the NBA thread for me ripping on Elgin Baylor.

You have the biggest turd in sports on your team, but that might as be sunshine coming out of his ass far as you are concerned.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

haha...maybe so....but at least my favorite teams aren't the forgotten siblings of more interesting local franchises.

Since I don't use my teams to justify my existence in this world, it doesn't match matter to me how they compare to other local teams.

[Chief Rum]

And USC sucks.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

And admitted homer though I am, I regularly call a turd a turd when I see one, particularly on my own teams. See my thoughts on Santana with the Angels, Pronger with the Ducks, do a search for my Lavin tirade from UCLA a few years back, or even look in the NBA thread for me ripping on Elgin Baylor.

You have the biggest turd in sports on your team, but that might as be sunshine coming out of his ass far as you are concerned.

You and I have different definitions of the word "turd". Comparing Barry Bonds to Ervin Santana, Steve Lavin, and Elgin Baylor (the exec, not the player)?

Yeah, maybe Barry Bonds isn't everybodys ideal match on EHarmony, but calling him a "turd"? What exactly is your criteria here?

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Since I don't use my teams to justify my existence in this world, it doesn't match matter to me how they compare to other local teams.

Well, I don't use local teams to justify my existence either. I fully realize there is no justification for my existence.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

And USC sucks.

Those USC/UCLA games in both football and hoops are gonna be some kind of fun to watch next year.....

[Izulde]

For me, I hate Bonds because to my opinion, regardless of the legality or illegality of steroids, it's an ethics issue.

That he feels he has to use steroids to go after what most would consider to be sacrosanct records disgusts me, the same disgust I feel for McGwire (and, I would suspect, Sosa).

Giambi I can at least somewhat respect because he owned up to it.

[WSUCougar]

Chris Carpenter is having Tommy John surgery...

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Izulde

For me, I hate Bonds because to my opinion, regardless of the legality or illegality of steroids, it's an ethics issue.

That he feels he has to use steroids to go after what most would consider to be sacrosanct records disgusts me, the same disgust I feel for McGwire (and, I would suspect, Sosa).

Giambi I can at least somewhat respect because he owned up to it.

Giambi didn't "own up to it." He was the only one to make direct admissions in his GJ testimonny, and when that got leaked, he had nowhere to hide. He was essentially outed. Bonds, at least, allegedly lied about knowingly taking steroids, which is why he may or may not be facing perjury charges. So he has his alleged lies to fall back on, even though that testimony was leaked. The only reason Giambi's course has gone as it has over the past couple of years is because he was truthful before the GJ. I guess you can give him props for that, but had the GJ testimony never leaked, he'd still be denying ever taking the stuff to this day.

I don't really care about Bonds breaking the record. I'm not going to be disgusted, I'm going to be disinterested. And frankly, that's worse than being disgusted, because this should be a moment that is celebrated. But even without the steroids, it would be hard to be happy for such a pathetic human being. However, I would still get caught up in the moment, the same way I was back in 2000 or 2001 when he broke McGwire's record. With the steroid issue, though, it just clouds it further, because it's one thing to accept that an asshole holds a legit record, and another to say that person may not have even gotten it legitimately.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

A bunch of stuff. And then:

God...the morality police are annoying as hell. Don't tell any of us who we should or shouldn't pull for. Get off the soapbox.

I think you are confusing unwavering and direct hate for telling you who you should or shouldn't pull for. That's ok. It's confusing. Even before he was outed as a user, he was the biggest asshole in baseball. And I'm sure he and his fans love every minute of it. Everyone loves being the "outsider". It just makes them all the more closer to the apple of their eye to know that everyone is pulling against them.

And I like how all those steroids helped Bonds win a World Series ring. Oh, wait....

[Ksyrup]

As if the SABR-hating part of Joe Morgan isn't bad enough, there's this.....




July 20, 2007 -- IT ain't so, Joe! The self- mutilation of ESPN, the systemic destruction of what once promised to be the best thing that ever happened to sports fans, continues, on all fronts.

Sunday night on ESPN the Cardinals were beating the Phillies, 10-0, in the eighth inning.

That was before ESPN's pathetic ESPY Awards, but after ESPN's pathetic "Who's Now?" segment, and before and after ESPN's pathetic sudden enthusiasm for the Arena Football League, which until this year, when it became an ESPN property, ESPN ignored.

Cardinals-Phillies was part of ESPN's pathetic "Sunday Night Baseball" coverage. The Phillies were about to become the first Major League Baseball team to 10,000 losses. And Joe Morgan, ESPN's No. 1 baseball analyst, a fellow whose wisdom is often laced with convoluted, confounding and contradictory nonsense, was moved to tell a national audience about the significant role he played in Phillies history.

The year, Morgan told us, was 1964, that calamitous season when the Phillies blew a 61/2-game lead with 12 games left by losing 10 straight. Morgan said he made his major-league debut late in '64, against the Phillies. And it was in that game that his RBI single beat the Phillies, extending their infamous losing streak to eight or nine.

Morgan added that Phillies manager Gene Mauch was so upset he threw over the buffet table in the clubhouse, hollering that his club had just been beaten by "a Little Leaguer!"

Great story. But unless Morgan was confusing himself with Reds rookie infielder Chico Ruiz, it never happened. As several readers were moved to write, the Phillies played the Reds, Braves and Cardinals during that losing streak; Houston wasn't in the mix.

Furthermore, Morgan, though called up in 1964, did not have an RBI that season for Houston.

And he did not make his big-league debut in '64, either. That came Sept. 21, 1963, when he went 0-for-1, pinch-hitting against the Phillies. The next day, Morgan did have an RBI single to beat the Phillies, but those Phillies were well out of the race and not in the throes of a historic collapse; they'd actually won four of their previous five games.
Can you confuse such significant and presumably memorable facts about your career? It hardly seems possible, but I suppose you can.

The same bogus story appeared in a Baseball Digest story about Morgan that was published in 2000.

ESPN, through a spokesman yesterday, acknowledged that Morgan's biographical account Sunday was incorrect, that he likely confused his 1963 circumstances with the Phillies' 1964 circumstances. Morgan could not be reached for comment, but ESPN said it expects him to make a correction on his next broadcast, this Sunday.

Fair enough. Still, Morgan seems to be just one symptom of what ESPN has become, that no matter what you watch, listen to and read that carries the ESPN brand, ESPN should just tear it up and start over.

[sterlingice]

We're number 4! We're number 4!

Royals are tied for 4th with the White Sox. Huzzah

Tied for 9th worst record in the league after a 5-4 road trip against the Indians (1-2), Red Sox (2-1), and Tigers (2-1).

SI

[Chief Rum]

We hit a homerun!

The Angels broke a 14 game, 132 inning streak of homerless play. Way to go, Angels.

On another good note (but no backhands here), Joe Saunders finally returns to the rotation and hopefully for good. Prior to Santana being sent down Wednesday, we would have just chalked this one up to a loss. Someone finally handed Scioscia and Stoneman a clue and they are lettign Ervin work out his issues at AAA.

Now if we could wake the offense up. But that would mean Stoneman would have to make a trade...(and no, the Molina to Yanks deal doesn't count).

[MrBug708]

Nomar hit two hr's this series! Woot!

[Logan]

And played out of position to allow the winning run to score.