Werewolf XXXIV: Tombstone (GAME OVER - Night 13)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Everyone knows that it only takes one cowboy to make the kill. They can take turns, or instead of making a kill 2 nights in a row, send out a cowboy to convert somebody.

And actually I don't think we know this at all. I think there has been a lot of supposition about how the cowboys can do their kills, but it's all been guesswork. I don't think the mechanics for how the cowboys operate is listed anywhere in AlanT's rules or role descriptions.

Added new post to get the quote right.

[path12]

I'm going to just stick with my vote to lynch Gram. I'm giving Chief the benefit of the doubt today.

Out until after lynch.

[bulletsponge]

Lynch Gramm

although i find it odd that it seems nobody is trying to get someone else under suspicion to clear him if hes a cowboy

[spleen1015]

I have already made my vote. I having bowling tonight, so I will be back 12ish.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

Lynch Gramm

although i find it odd that it seems nobody is trying to get someone else under suspicion to clear him if hes a cowboy

Yeah, I think Chief is more suspicious than Gramm right now. Gramm is tired though, with no explaination.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, I don't think that all the Cowboys are jumping on me. But I did find it strange that there were a flurry of people who all came out attacking me in a short span of time. None of who were remotely cleared by anyone when there do seem to be a number of roles that have night actions that are encountering each other on peaceful terms.

Coincidence? I would be VERY surprised if there is not a single Cowboy pushing this agenda.

[hoopsguy]

Lynch votes as of Post #1456 - 10 is the magic number:

Gramm 15 -- Swaggs (1277), Fouts (1280), Chubby (1287), Path (1313), Hoops (1314), LSG (1332), Spleen (1333), Barkeep (1334), SnDvls (1335), Racer (1344), Glen (1347), Rum (1377), NTN (1397), Lathum (1403), Bullet (1453)

Rum 7 -- Fouts (1280), Hoops (1314), LSG (1332), SnDvls (1335), Barkeep (1339), Cronin (1386), Lathum (1417)

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

oh by the way my first thoughts on jailing and freeing...
If we have 0 or 1 open spot during the evening spot, then I plan on freeing Swagg.
If we have 2 I plan on leaving him in so imay fill it up again.

I typed up something close to a disertation on this subject, but walked away from my desk before hitting submit. I agree with this plan completely.

[Abe Sargent]

Okay Chief's post made a lot of sense to me, so I'm not voting for him. What about Gram though? That I can see based on what I read today. We're still close numbers wise, so I'll vote just in case.

Vote Lynch Grammaticus


In the meantime, I'll change this vote if someone can really establish a good case why,

[saldana]

i went back and looked at the PM the night i met up with CR....after rereading it a couple time, it feels much more like he was trying to get information out of me rather than interfere with me, also, i had already put swaggs in jail, and was on may way home...i mixed some things up when i was in such a hurry to post that morning while i was at work

and for Glengoyne...please tell me what i should have done on night 2, seeing as how you keep pushing for me to go to jail because of my "shady activities"( i think thats what you said)

vote lynch gram (no explanation at all about what he was doing out)
vote free CR or Swaggs (both of them seem fine to me)
vote jail cronin (same reasons as last night)

[saldana]

dola, sorry to be out all day...most likely have the same situation tomorrow, but if i live through the weekend, next week should be better.

[Grammaticus]

I just got in and am on post 1300. But what I read to that point sounds correct. I was by Path's house and saw SnDvsl enter his house. Then I saw Chubby stop and sit down at a park bench. I went around the other side of paths house and heard 3 shots. I ran to see what happened and saw Chubby looking in the window of GE's house. Then Hoops ran up. Then Bullet walked out of his house looking drunk drinking something.

At that point NTN and his deputees arrived. NTN had the deputees take my firearm and arrest me. That is it.

I can definately confirm that Path was not the shooter.

[Barkeep49]

Ok true to my word

Unexecute CR

If saldana says that CR's story matches with his then I think the compelling reason to hold him there is no longer there. That said, as we can only add 1 new person to the jail I'd rather see swags released.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by saldana

...

and for Glengoyne...please tell me what i should have done on night 2, seeing as how you keep pushing for me to go to jail because of my "shady activities"( i think thats what you said)...

You were strongly advocating the lynch of GE, without evidence, only for the reason that it would be a win for the wolves if we went the night without a lynching. Then you take actions that essentially ensure that there will not be a lynching on night two.

I was suspicious of you when you jailed Swaggs, now that GE has been cleared it has just elevated that concern.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Does this game even have "convert" powers? I am not sure it does (although it is complicated). I certainly don't. My night action was to seek information, which I was rebuffed from getting.

And, yes, actually, since you want to lynch me, I do find you highly suspicious. Cowboys will want to see villagers hanged, and you haven't said much this game--kind of UTR for an experienced player such as yourself.

I'm not all caught up yet, but I believe from my interaction with ntndeacon that there is some sort of conversion in this game ... but that it's not at all simple. I think somebody could be converted for a temporary period, like say 1 night.

Pure speculation, and I really have no idea.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I just thought of something that might help clear me a little, or at least suggest I am not a cowboy.

When you have two night actions in a row, you get tired. I have not been tired yet. Everyone knows I used my night action on Night Two, when there was no kill. I was not tired on Day Three after that Night Two action, so I could not have been out on Night One (the night Thomkal died). I am not tired now, so I could not have been out on Night Three (prior to being arrested, I mean). This is the night GE was killed.

It seems logical to suggest I was not out on Nights One or Three, the two nights there were cowboy kills. I also do not have a gun, which has been confirmed.

I have been very open with my reasoning for approaching saldana that night, and I think that more than a few of you don't have saldana on any sort of trust list right now. So there is hardly no reason for me to approach him to check him out, even as sheriff.

I'm not saying this clears me, but it certainly adds to the body of evidence that if you hang me today, you will be hanging a villager.

To me, this actually makes you more suspicious.

[Glengoyne]

Oh Sal. I didn't actually answer your question.

I would have arrested the person I was most suspicious of. I don't know who that was for you at that time. But Swaggs was a bad option for the town.

[Grammaticus]

I was out watching Path because I am the retired army officer and have the ability to guard someone each night. My guard action stops that person from interacting with anyone for the night. I guarded Path last night.

[Grammaticus]

dola, I guarded Spleen the night before and nobody on night 1.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by saldana

vote jail cronin (same reasons as last night)

Those reasons make no sense to me, and didn't yesterday.

Are you just mad because I led the campaign to take away your shiny star?

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Chubby

You were 2nd on the scene followed by Gramm.

Chubby this is not true, You were first on the scene looking in the window, then me, then hoops.

[hoopsguy]

Gramm, it doesn't sound like Path can verify that you guarded him - his posts indicate that he had no knowledge of your presence.

Do you have any knowledge of other events you have seen that could possibly dovetail with someone else's activities? If so, now is the time to come forward with it ... don't wait like GE did.

[Glengoyne]

As for people to Jail

I think Saldana is at the top of my list, unless he can be cleared. Perhaps I'm making too much out of him trying to do what people asked him to do, but I really think that is a pretty weak excuse.


I'm not real happy with the Path and Racer either. Hoops isn't very far from them suspicion wise, although NTN apparently has some faith in him. I'm going to have to re-read and see where that came in.

One thing is for certain. There are a crap load of Cowboys in this town, someone has to be a cowboy.

[hoopsguy]

Glen, that faith came from NTN meeting me last night. I can pull up the post if anyone is disputing this - we both acknowledged this early in the day.

[hoopsguy]

Gram, the order I have in my PM is in line with what Chubby described.

1. I arrived, saw Chubby at the window
2. Shortly after arriving I saw Bullet
3. Followed by you

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Glen, that faith came from NTN meeting me last night. I can pull up the post if anyone is disputing this - we both acknowledged this early in the day.

Not disputing. I just missed it. I'll go look.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Gramm, it doesn't sound like Path can verify that you guarded him - his posts indicate that he had no knowledge of your presence.

Do you have any knowledge of other events you have seen that could possibly dovetail with someone else's activities? If so, now is the time to come forward with it ... don't wait like GE did.

I gave the town everything in my prior posts. I saw nothing on the night I guarded Spleen. I can tell you he lives in the NE part of town.

It is obvious I did not shoot anyone as my gun was not used. So, you know I'm not the shooter. I'm tired today, and was not yesterday, so you know I was not out on night one or I would have been tired yesterday. So, you know I did not shoot Thomkal either.

NTN jailed me on his own without any input from anyone else. There are not reasons for suspicion being provided. I have given you the reason I was out and that should be a role that interests the town in keeping.

[st.cronin]

I think CR is a much better lynch candidate than Gram, at this point. I'm not sure why there's so many votes against Gram.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Gram, the order I have in my PM is in line with what Chubby described.

1. I arrived, saw Chubby at the window
2. Shortly after arriving I saw Bullet
3. Followed by you

My PM says that as I approach GE's house I see

1. Chubby at the window
2. Then you approaching
3. Then a crowd shows up just as I do, with Bullet at the lead, drinking from a Tin cup.

I'm assuming I was there, but it looks like you and I approached about the same time.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I also had a visit from NTN last night. He holds the role that I suspected he did from the other accounts. I'm a little surprised about any confusion around this initially from Anxiety and Cronin, but perhaps their PMs were substantially different.

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Well, The people I have gone to see are in my CoT. I also trust Lathum as well. the whole thing with GE makes me trust Swaggs some. others have a sidgeon of trust or distrust. So it would look a little like this:

High trust:
Hoops, Cronin, Anxiety, Swaggs
Moderately High Trust:
Lathum
Middlin' Trust:
Spleen
Just a little trust:
Bullett, Barkeep

Here are the two posts - first by me indicating I was visited by NTN and the second from him confirming and answering Anxiety's request for a trust list.

[Grammaticus]

dola,

either way it is obvious I did not shoot him

[Grammaticus]

Why the landslide to lynch me?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I gave the town everything in my prior posts. I saw nothing on the night I guarded Spleen. I can tell you he lives in the NE part of town.

It is obvious I did not shoot anyone as my gun was not used. So, you know I'm not the shooter. I'm tired today, and was not yesterday, so you know I was not out on night one or I would have been tired yesterday. So, you know I did not shoot Thomkal either.

NTN jailed me on his own without any input from anyone else. There are not reasons for suspicion being provided. I have given you the reason I was out and that should be a role that interests the town in keeping.

That is good for me.

NO LYNCH GRAMMATICUS

or unlynch, whatever.

[hoopsguy]

Gram, did both people you guard remain in their homes during those evenings? Were you able to observe anything about them to validate their role (more interested in Path out of the two)?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

To me, this actually makes you more suspicious.

Why is that?

[Grammaticus]

NTN, what was your hunch for jailing me. Seems like an odd move when the town was putting up other candidates. Why did you feel you had to override everyone else? Jailing someone on a hunch without explaining why is odd behavior. You have not visited me, so what gives?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I gave the town everything in my prior posts. I saw nothing on the night I guarded Spleen. I can tell you he lives in the NE part of town.

It is obvious I did not shoot anyone as my gun was not used. So, you know I'm not the shooter. I'm tired today, and was not yesterday, so you know I was not out on night one or I would have been tired yesterday. So, you know I did not shoot Thomkal either.

NTN jailed me on his own without any input from anyone else. There are not reasons for suspicion being provided. I have given you the reason I was out and that should be a role that interests the town in keeping.

Ok this logic has convinced me.

Unvote Execute

I think it's too late, but you never know. I have a feeling jail is working in this game a lot like my game. Put someone in and they're able to come up with enough information to clear themselves. It was a winning strategy there and will, hopefully, be a winning strategy here.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I gave the town everything in my prior posts. I saw nothing on the night I guarded Spleen. I can tell you he lives in the NE part of town.

It is obvious I did not shoot anyone as my gun was not used. So, you know I'm not the shooter. I'm tired today, and was not yesterday, so you know I was not out on night one or I would have been tired yesterday. So, you know I did not shoot Thomkal either.

This is actually kind of goofy. Why wouldn't you go out on night 1?

[Barkeep49]

Unvote to execute Gram

Just to be super duper clear about my intention.

[Chief Rum]

It wouldn't shock me at all if we should be looking at the quiet folks here, and the noisiest players are all villagers. I'm tyring to remember who cleared Lathum or LSG, but I know I have had my suspicions of both of them. I also didn't think much of the way Fouts hasn't been doing much up until today, perhaps hiding behind being a school teacher. Racer and SnDvls have been a bit UTR at times, too.

[hoopsguy]

I wish either Bullet or Chubby were here right now - would like to see if there is anything in their roles that would lead them to question Gramm's reveal.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Gram, did both people you guard remain in their homes during those evenings? Were you able to observe anything about them to validate their role (more interested in Path out of the two)?

Spleen did nothing and Path did nothing.

When I guard them, they cannot interact with anyone. I assume that means they are blocked from doing any actions and I don't know if I would get a hint if they tried. I can say it appears they both did nothing.

I thought maybe my guarding Spleen was a chance he was the cowboy sent out to kill and thought about guarding him again tonight. But I felt he was more likely the mortician and a good guy with no night action.

I know Saldana came home and Chubby was outside on the street by GE's house. I took my attention off Saldana and Chubby and then I went around Paths house, heard the shots, checked on Path first, he was safe and sound. Then I went to GE's to see If I could catch anyone.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by saldana

i went back and looked at the PM the night i met up with CR....after rereading it a couple time, it feels much more like he was trying to get information out of me rather than interfere with me, also, i had already put swaggs in jail, and was on may way home...i mixed some things up when i was in such a hurry to post that morning while i was at work

and for Glengoyne...please tell me what i should have done on night 2, seeing as how you keep pushing for me to go to jail because of my "shady activities"( i think thats what you said)

vote lynch gram (no explanation at all about what he was doing out)
vote free CR or Swaggs (both of them seem fine to me)
vote jail cronin (same reasons as last night)

Thanks for coming out with that, saldana. That makes me feel a bit better about you, as up to now, I kinda felt like you were letting me twist for some reason.

[Abe Sargent]

Okay, after reading his defense, I will also

Unvote Lynch Grammaticus

[hoopsguy]

Chief, here are the relationships for the people you list:

Lathum visited Anxiety, who was disguised as you
NTN visited Anxiety, who was disguised as you
Their accounts for the event all fit neatly together and a three-way trust was born.

LSG - her and Racer appear to have gotten PMs that share a word

Fouts - not linked

SnDvls - not linked that I recall

[Grammaticus]

I am a villager and the retired army captain. I fought the indians in the war, I wanted to retire in peace, so I came to tombstone to make my fortune using my talents.

If you do not have enough trust in me, consider not lynching me and leaving me in jail. I have a bodyguard action with my role.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Chief, here are the relationships for the people you list:

Lathum visited Anxiety, who was disguised as you
NTN visited Anxiety, who was disguised as you
Their accounts for the event all fit neatly together and a three-way trust was born.

LSG - her and Racer appear to have gotten PMs that share a word

Fouts - not linked

SnDvls - not linked that I recall

Thanks, hoops, you're right. I have a good feeling about Anxiety and about ntn, and Anxiety had a good reaction to Lathum. I still have my doubts, but it's not so much given that.

LSG and Racer seem to be vouching for each other on a rather low-end flimsy level. It might be a way of UTR supporting each other as cowboys. They might even have set that up that way. So that doesn't clear them at all, IMO.

[Grammaticus]

So, with 8 minutes left, where does the vote leave me?

[saldana]

vote unlynch gram

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

So, with 8 minutes left, where does the vote leave me?

I think 2-3 people, including myself, have dropped off of you since the count was 15, but that's not enough, I'm afraid.