2012 NFL Offseason thread

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Logan

This would be very welcome (via Richard Deitsch on twitter):

You mean I'll have to wait another 20 seconds to find out who the Redskins have drafted? WTF?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Logan

This would be very welcome (via Richard Deitsch on twitter):

yes it would be. IMO it pretty much ruins the draft the way they have done it the past few years.

[DaddyTorgo]

Of course it wouldn't involve the predictions by the on-air people. Gotta let the blow-hards bloviate.

Listening to all of them has pretty much ruined the draft for me. I'll read the recaps later and be fine. Saves me hours of my life too.

[Danny]

Yeah I dont wake up like I used to and watch the draft all day. I dont like them spoiling picks, I dont like the new round 1 start day. And I dont like the Raiders not having any early picks

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

This would be very welcome (via Richard Deitsch on twitter):

Yeah, the phone call shots really ruined the fun of hearing the pick announced. Good move by them.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

Woo Browns have the 3rd toughest schedule next year.

Whats the catch phrase for Matt Barkley this season?

Blow For Barkley

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Blow For Barkley

That's already taken for a USC fundraiser.

[Julio Riddols]

I wish the draft would get here all ready so we could get our last dose of the good stuff before we make our trek across that three month desert between here and that lush green and fertile land known as the regular season.

[Logan]

I was always interested in hearing more about this process:

N.F.L. Schedule Makers Try Their Best to Please Everybody - NYTimes.com

[stevew]

Mike Wallace apparently won't sign anywhere. Yay for owner collusion!

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by stevew

Mike Wallace apparently won't sign anywhere. Yay for owner collusion!

I agree with what Mort said about it today, it's just not worth it. A first rounder + the money he will require? With WRs, you are better off drafting a cheaper option.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Logan

I was always interested in hearing more about this process:

N.F.L. Schedule Makers Try Their Best to Please Everybody - NYTimes.com

I am annoyed by the use of N.F.L. instead of NFL.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I am annoyed by the use of N.F.L. instead of NFL.

NYT is old school, like all the "Mr..." references.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I agree with what Mort said about it today, it's just not worth it. A first rounder + the money he will require? With WRs, you are better off drafting a cheaper option.

Except when playing FOF.

[JPhillips]

It's rather fishy, though, when the first time all 32 NFL owners have been fiscally responsible is with a high profile RFA from a team owned by a respected, long-term owner.

[stevew]

I almost wonder if SF didnt leak that "Larry Fitgerald type contract" thing as a favor to Steelers ownership.

[Julio Riddols]

This TE prospect Miami signed is very intriguing.

[Logan]

Sources: New Orleans Saints' Mickey Loomis could eavesdrop on opposing coaches during home games - ESPN

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

This TE prospect Miami signed is very intriguing.

Makes me feel a little better knowing I could get up out my desk and try out for the Dolphins. Gonna practice by throwing 10keys around the office. Maybe create a giant wall of tax forms 2 feet thick and hang it from the ceiling and run into it a bunch. OH YEAH.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Logan

Sources: New Orleans Saints' Mickey Loomis could eavesdrop on opposing coaches during home games - ESPN

The sad part is they went 12-12 at home during that period.

[tarcone]

I cant drive 55!

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Matthean

The sad part is they went 12-12 at home during that period.

Makes me suspect that pretty much every team cheats their asses off. Then, when a team gets caught doing something, the media starts digging, and all of these other stories come out.

I wonder how many teams would start to have a lot of skeletons come out of the closet if anyone bothered to look.

And, finally, I watched those Saints teams during that stretch. If they were cheating that much and still sucking that badly, then there is really nothing to say for it other than "man, that team SUCKED."

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Matthean

The sad part is they went 12-12 at home during that period.

Kind of an improvement over the 05 season in which Loomis wasnt able to listen in which they went 3-13 though.

Who knows if it was ever even used but its kind of funny that RG has another Saints issue to look into suddenly.

I guess out of all the teams in the league that this was going to happen to(including the bounty issue), the Saints probably would have been near the bottom of my list of suspects.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Makes me suspect that pretty much every team cheats their asses off. Then, when a team gets caught doing something, the media starts digging, and all of these other stories come out.

I wonder how many teams would start to have a lot of skeletons come out of the closet if anyone bothered to look.

And, finally, I watched those Saints teams during that stretch. If they were cheating that much and still sucking that badly, then there is really nothing to say for it other than "man, that team SUCKED."

I am sure many teams have skeletons. Just need to control the situation enough to not get busted.

[stevew]

I predict that we'll never get to hear any of this evidence. God forbid that the tape leaks and says something like "We're going to try to bait the SLB on this play...blah blah blah" and then they sync up the replay of the guy faking out the fake and returning a pick 6.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Makes me suspect that pretty much every team cheats their asses off.

For a few years (at least since the Pats thing) I've wondered about any transmitters - either the ability to intercept communications or the ability to selectively block them.

[SirFozzie]

The funny thing was, I was texting a friend of mine about this, and I almost said "This makes Belichick look like a saint in comparison". Whoops

[albionmoonlight]

Things that I expect to do when I am a fan: Research 40 times and college production of potential draftees.

Things that I don't expect to do when I am a fan: Research statutes of limitation on federal wiretapping laws.

[Racer]

I always enjoy making a NFL Mock Draft. The first mock I made was back in January, the second one in late February, and third one in early April. At this point in the process, I'm trying to get picks right. For example, I mock Quinton Coples to the Lions. I think he probably doesn't fall that far but I think the Lions are far more likely to take a chance on his work ethic concerns then teams like the Bears, Browns, and Titans. Basically, I believe the team most likely to end up with Coples is the Lions.

Also, I mocked top 10 draft pick trades only. I'd imagine trading will really pick up after pick 10 when the 5th year of rookie contracts become much more attractive.

2012 NFL Mock Draft 4.0

1st Round
1.Indianapolis Colts (2-14) – Andrew Luck, QB – Stanford
The Colts GM Ryan Grigson today officially confirmed that the Colts will indeed select Luck who is considered by many to be the best prospect in the draft since John Elway back in 1983.

2. Washington Redskins (from St. Louis Rams (2-14)) – Robert Griffin III, QB – Baylor
By trading up to the #2 pick in the NFL Draft for RG3, the Redskins could become a relevant franchise again.

3. Minnesota Vikings (3-13) – Matt Kalil, OT – USC
The Vikings don't appear to be completely sold on Kalil becoming a top 5 LT in the NFL but he still remains the front runner choice if the Vikings are unable to trade down to another spot in the top 10.

4. Cleveland Browns (4-12) – Trent Richardson, RB - Alabama
If the rumors are true, the Browns intend on taking Richardson with the 4th overall pick even though the position has been devalued in recent years. If the Bucs trade up to the number three spot to take Richardson look for the Browns to select Morris Claiborne with this pick. Teams that Mike Holmgren has been the head coach or team president of have taken CBs 5 out of 22 times in the first round and 4 of 18 times in the second round (nearly 25% of the time). His teams have also taken safeties in the first or second round five times bringing the total percentage of first or second round picks spent on secondary players to 35%.

5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (4-12) – Morris Claiborne, CB - LSU
The Buccaneers gave up a league high 494 points this season this past season. The team signed CB Eric Wright this off-season to a lucrative deal but there is no reason why they wouldn't draft Claiborne to continue to shore up a shaky secondary.

6. St. Louis Rams (from Washington Redskins (5-11) ) – Justin Blackmon, WR - Oklahoma State
The fact that the Rams didn't make a strong push for any receivers in a strong WR free agent class suggests this pick will be Blackmon. Blackmon would become the first WR 6'2" or shorter to be taken in the top six since the 5'11" Peter Warrick back in 2000. However, there is a decent chance this pick could end up being Fletcher Cox. While Jeff Fisher was the head coach in Tennessee, the Titans/Oilers selected a defensive linemen 4 out of 14 times in the first round and a 7 out of 17 times in the 2nd round.

Projected trade – Eagles trade 1.15 and 2.19 (1440 points) to the Jaguars for the 1.07 pick (1500 points)
The Eagles showed they aren't afraid of trading up for a player when they traded up for Brandon Graham in the 2010 NFL Draft. If the Jaguars are unable to trade out of the 7 spot look for them to select CB Stephen Gilmore who has been linked to the Jaguars by Peter King and being projected to go to the Jaguars by both of cbs.com's primary mockers.

7. Philadelphia Eagles (from Jacksonville Jaguars (5-11))– Fletcher Cox, DT - Mississippi State
Fletcher Cox has emerged as the top DT prospect in this draft and is regarded as a very good pass rusher for a DT. The Eagles are no stranger to selecting defensive linemen having selected one with five out of their ten first round picks under Reid so Cox is someone the Eagles may well be targeting.

8. Miami Dolphins (6-10) - Ryan Tannehill, QB - Texas A&M
Look for the Dolphins to reunite Tannehill with his college head coach Mike Sherman if he makes it to the 8th pick in the draft. However, don't expect them to trade up for him unless they get paranoid and begin to believe that the Browns are going to take their guy at four.

9. Carolina Panthers (6-10) - Stephen Gilmore, CB - South Carolina
The Panthers are said to like Gilmore a lot. If Cox isn't available look for them to select Gilmore, who a team or two reportedly likes more then Claiborne, to help shore up a defense that gave up the 6th most points in the league in 2011.

10. Buffalo Bills (6-10) – Mark Barron, SS - Alabama
According to nfl.com's Jason La Canfora, the Bills are interested in trading back given the offensive line depth in this year's depth. Likely translation? The Bills don't think there is an offensive linemen outside of Kalil worth the 10th pick. The Bills' pick is becoming one of the trickier picks to predict but SS Mark Barron is a possibility. He may not be the greatest cover safety in the world but his physicality could slow down the Patriots' Rob Gronkowski.

11. Kansas City Chiefs (7-9)) - Luke Kuechly, ILB - Boston College
The Chiefs already have Derrick Johnson at ILB who was a 1st team All Pro in 2011 but Chiefs GM Scott Pioli might not hesitate in selecting Kuechly if he believes Kuechly is the future All Pro that many believe him to be. Kuechly gets the nod over Dontari Poe because of his pro readiness.

12. Seattle Seahawks (7-9) - Michael Floyd, WR - Notre Dame
Nobody seems to be mocking Floyd to the Seahawks, but the Seahawks managed just 15 passing touchdowns in 2011 and finished 22nd in total passing yards. Sidney Rice has played in just 15 games in two years in the NFL and probably can't be relied on.

13. Arizona Cardinals (8-8) – Riley Reiff, OT - Iowa
The Cardinals are another team that Jason La Canfora says want to trade down due to the offensive line depth in this year's draft. If they get stuck at 13 and Michael Floyd is off the board, look for them to select Reiff if they believe he can be an effective LT in the NFL or OG David DeCastro if he can't. Either one should help a line that surrendered 54 sacks in 2011.

14. Dallas Cowboys (8-8) – Dontari Poe, NT - Memphis
Both Poe and safety Mark Barron have been linked the Cowboys' pick. Barron is the more widely projected pick but Poe may be the probable pick even if both are on the board because 350 pound athletic freaks are rare and the Poe rumors started first (i.e. the Barron talk could be a smokescreen).

15. Jacksonville Jaguars (form Philadelphia Eagles (8-8) )– Melvin Ingram, DE - South Carolina
If the actual draft unfolded as above, the Jaguars would have the opportunity to draft the player at 15 that many people have been projecting for them to take at 7. There are concerns that Ingram's arms are to short which could cause him to fall into the middle of the first round.

16. N.Y. Jets (8-8)) – Chandler Jones, OLB/DE - Syracuse
Jones was once considered a 2nd round talent but he has been a late riser and now is considered a lock to go in the first round. The Jets gave Aaron Maybin a first round tender earlier this off season but ESPN New York's Rich Cimini believes that Jones is one of few players that the Jets are looking at possibly taking with this pick.

17. Cincinnati Bengals (from Raiders (8-8)) – David DeCastro, G - Stanford
Many mocks have DeCastro off the board by now but he plays a devalued position and could slide a little because of that. If he does fall to the Bengals he could help shore up the interior of their offensive line.

18. San Diego Chargers (8-8) – Stephen Hill, WR - Georgia Tech
Neither Michael Floyd nor Robert Meachem have shown to be anything more then serviceable WRs in their NFL careers. Consequently, the Chargers could surprise people by taking Hill. Hill is raw but the Chargers had no problems taking a flier on Northern Illinois OLB Larry English with the 16th overall pick in 2009. Hill ahead of Wright may be hard to digest but the Chargers like their WRs big.

19. Chicago Bears (8-8) – Whitney Mercilus, DE - Illinois
The Bears have shown interest in pairing Julius Peppers with a better pass rusher. They may use the 2012 NFL Draft which is considered deep at DE/OLB.

20. Tennessee Titans (9-7) – Michael Brockers, DT - LSU
Because of concerns regarding his ability to rush the passer, Brockers could fall on draft day to the Titans. The Titans fished 31st in sacks in 2011 while giving up 4.5 ypc. However, they signed Kamerion Wimbley this off-season to play DE so a DT seems more likely here.

21. Cincinnati Bengals (9-7) – Dre Kirkpatrick, CB - Alabama
Kirkpatrick was cited for marijuana possession back in January and his stock has been slowly slipping since then. The Bengals, who need help at corner, don't shy away from players with red flags though and will likely look past that if they believe in Kirkpatrick's talent.

22. Cleveland Browns (from Falcons (10-6) ) – Cordy Glenn, G/RT - Georgia
The Browns finished 30th in the NFL is rushing yards and 4.4 yards per carry so the Browns could go with an offensive linemen with this pick. Holmgren's teams have selected interior offensive linemen three times in the first round. That may not seem like a lot but it is when one considers how rare it is for centers and guards to go in the first round.

23. Detroit Lions (10-6) – Quinton Coples, DE - North Carolina
The Lions mantra under GM Martin Mayhew has been to select the best player available. Coples is considered a top 10 talent but has a good chance of falling in the draft due to concerns about his willingness to play and work hard. The Lions, however, have shown they aren't afraid to take a chance with a player with red flags and could very well select Coples with the 23rd overall pick despite already having a stacked defensive line.

24. Pittsburgh Steelers (12-4) – Jonathan Martin, OT - Stanford
The Steelers surrendered 42 sacks in 2011 which tied for the 9th most in the NFL. Jonathan Martin, who is considered a better pass protector then run blocker, could help bring that total down.

25. Denver Broncos (8-8) – Jerel Worthy, DT - Michigan State
The Broncos lost 2011 starting DT Broderick Bunkley and may very well take advantage of a very deep defensive tackle draft and upgrade from the departed Bunkley through the draft.

26. Houston Texans (10-6) – Kendall Wright, WR - Baylor
Neither Kevin Walter nor Jacoby Jones has ever blossomed into an upper end #2 WR despite being #2 and #3 on the depth chart for years. The Texans might have a difficult time passing on Wright if he fell to them.

27. New England Patriots (from Saints (13-3)) – Shea McCellin, OLB - Boise State
Both of New England’s starting OLBs had solid seasons this year. However, neither one was a true force so it is a position the Patriots could potentially target McCellin in this year's draft. The only thing that could keep him out of the first round is his the fact that he's had three concussions.

28. Green Bay Packers (15-1) – Nick Perry, OLB/DE - USC
Teams were able to double team Clay Mathews this season due to the lack of a threat the Packers had at the outside linebacker position opposite of him. The Packers might love nothing more then to pair him up with McCellin but might have to trade up in the draft to get him. Otherwise, they're have to settle on someone such as Perry.

29. Baltimore Ravens (12-4) – Don’ta Hightower, ILB – Alabama
Ray Lewis turns 37 in May so the Ravens can’t expect him to play much longer. There are questions regarding whether or not Hightower is a three down linebacker so he stands a good chance of being available at this point in the draft.

30. San Francisco 49ers (13-3) – Devon Still, DE/DT – Michigan State
49ers DE Justin Smith is coming off a solid season but he turns 33 in September. San Francisco may take advantage of a strong DT/3-4 DE class and select his long term replacement with their first round pick.

31. New England Patriots (13-3) – Harrison Smith, SS - Notre Dame
Expect the Patriots to trade this pick. However, if they are unable to trade down they could take Harrison Smith to shore up their shaky secondary. They were rumored to be interested in Smith early in the draft process and Todd McShay said he believed Smith stood a better then 50/50 chance of being selected in the first round on a recent ESPN podcast.

32. N.Y. Giants (9-7) – Coby Fleener, TE - Stanford
As a Colts fan, it breaks my heart to mock Fleener this close to the Colts 2nd round pick. While I would love for the Colts to have the option of taking Fleener, the Giants won't let their signing of Martellus Bennett stop them giving Eli Manning another option to throw the ball to if they can look past Fleener's blocking deficiencies.

2nd Round
1. St. Louis Rams – Kendall Reyes, DT – Connecticut
2. Indianapolis Colts – Andre Branch, OLB/DE – Clemson
3. Minnesota Vikings – Rueben Randle, WR - LSU
4. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Doug Martin, RB – Boise State
5. Cleveland Browns – Dwayne Allen, TE - Clemson
6. Jacksonville Jaguars – Jamell Fleming, CB - Oklahoma
7. St. Louis Rams (from Washington Redskins) – David Wilson, RB – Virginia Tech
8. Carolina Panthers - Vinny Curry, DE - Marshall
9. Buffalo Bills – Mike Adams, OT – Ohio State
10. Miami Dolphins - Alshon Jeffery, WR – South Carolina
11. Seattle Seahawks – Courtney Upshaw, DE - Alabama
12. Kansas City Chiefs – Brandon Weeden, QB - Oklahoma State
13. Dallas Cowboys – Kevin Zeitler, G - Wisconsin
14. Philadelphia Eagles –Lavonte David, OLB - Nebraska
15. New York Jets –Amini Silatotu, G - Midwestern State
16. New England Patriots (From Oakland Raiders) – Janoris Jenkins, CB – North Alabama
17. San Diego Chargers – Bobby Massie, OT - Mississippi
18. Chicago Bears – Zach Brown, OLB – North Carolina
19. Jacksonville Jaguars (from Arizona Cardinals (via Philadelphia Eagles**) – Mohamed Sanu, WR - Rutgers
20. Tennessee Titans – Josh Robinson, CB - UCF
21. Cincinnati Bengals – Lamar Miller, RB - Miami (Fla.)
22. Detroit Lions – Peter Konz, C – Wisconsin
23. Atlanta Falcons – Ronnell Lewis, OLB - Oklahoma
24. Pittsburgh Steelers – Keleche Osemele, G/OT – Iowa State
25. Denver Broncos – Jayron Hosley, CB - Virginia Tech
26. Houston Texans –Bruce Irvin, ILB/OLB – West Virginia
******New Orleans Saints - FORFEITED******
27. Green Bay Packers – Isaiah Pead, RB - Cincinnati
28. Baltimore Ravens – Brandon Brooks, G - Miami (Ohio)
29. San Francisco 49ers –Juron Criner, WR - Arizona
30. New England Patriots –Jared Crick, DE Nebraska
31. New York Giants – Chris Givens, WR - Wake Forest

3rd round
1. Indianapolis Colts – Chris Polk, RB – Washington
2. St. Louis Rams – Jeff Allen, OT - Illinois
3. Minnesota Vikings –Casey Hayward, CB - Vanderbilt
4. Cleveland Browns – Brandon Boykin, CB - Georgia
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers –Bobby Wagner, OLB – Utah State
6. Washington Redskins- Trumaine Johnson, CB/S - Montana
7. Jacksonville Jaguars – A.J. Jenkins, WR - Illinois
8. Buffalo Bills – Brian Quick, WR – Appalachian State
9. Miami Dolphins – Zebrie Sanders, OT – Florida State
10. Miami Dolphins – George Iloka, FS – Boise State
11. Kansas City Chiefs – Alameda Ta’amu, NT - Washington
12. Seattle Seahawks – LaMichael James, RB - Oregon
13. Houston Texans –Donald Stephenson, OT - Oklahoma
14. New York Jets – Billy Winn, DE – Boise State
15. San Diego Chargers – Trevin Wade, CB - Arizona
16. Chicago Bears – Ladarius Green, TE – Louisiana-Lafayette
17. Arizona Cardinals –Marvin Jones, WR - California
18. Dallas Cowboys – Brandon Taylor, SS - LSU
19. Tennessee Titans – Tyrone Crawford, DE – Boise State
20. Cincinnati Bengals – Ben Jones, C - Georgia
21. Atlanta Falcons – Bernard Pierce, RB - Temple
22. Detroit Lions – Dwight Bentley, CB – Louisiana Lafayette
23. Pittsburgh Steelers – Mychal Kendricks, ILB - California
24. Denver Broncos – Brock Osweiler, QB – Arizona State
25. Philadelphia Eagles – Ron Brooks, CB - LSU
26. New Orleans Saints – Cam Johnson, DE - Virginia
27. Green Bay Packers – Brandon Thompson, 3-4 DE/DT - Clemson
28. Baltimore Ravens – Derek Wolfe, 3-4 DE/DT - Cincinnnati
29. San Francisco 49ers – Orson Charles, TE - Georgia
30. New England Patriots – Ryan Broyles, WR - Oklahoma
31. New York Giants – Mitchell Swartz, OT - California
32. Oakland Raiders – Nigel Bradham, OLB – Florida State

blue - pick projected to be traded

[jbergey22]

Good stuff Racer.

[Izulde]

I'm not buying Poe going that high or a team trading in front of Miami to get anyone other than Tannehill. Otherwise, interesting first round.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Belichick doesn't mind iffy character guys (Hernandez, Merriweather) but I think Jenkins is too iffy.

[Tigercat]

I am waiting for the debate on ESPN:

IF Sean Payton killed that 17 year old hooker in Newark, should he be fired?

Listening to ESPN radio and checking the website for my glances at the days sports news is part of my routine. I don't expect brilliant journalism, but with somewhat off the wall allegation and without facts I expect that we spend some time with the consideration that the crazy claim that is out there didn't happen. Doesn't that usually happen in any report/discussion where there is somewhat crazy allegation? That we don't jump into the debate as if something is likely true?

Just like many around here, I have known what it is like to have a pretty good or bad team in a small market. You get overlooked (until you become an obvious contender.) That's fine. But I never knew that when the small organization turns into a nationwide negative story, how easy it is for the talking heads to assume the worse and just pile on, without a second to look into the rear view mirror.

Almost makes me wish the allegation was true. Because if it isn't, God knows ESPN and their talking heads won't look into their rear view mirror to see the semblance of journalistic integrity that they ran over back there.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I am waiting for the debate on ESPN:

IF Sean Payton killed that 17 year old hooker in Newark, should he be fired?

Listening to ESPN radio and checking the website for my glances at the days sports news is part of my routine. I don't expect brilliant journalism, but with somewhat off the wall allegation and without facts I expect that we spend some time with the consideration that the crazy claim that is out there didn't happen. Doesn't that usually happen in any report/discussion where there is somewhat crazy allegation? That we don't jump into the debate as if something is likely true?

Just like many around here, I have known what it is like to have a pretty good or bad team in a small market. You get overlooked (until you become an obvious contender.) That's fine. But I never knew that when the small organization turns into a nationwide negative story, how easy it is for the talking heads to assume the worse and just pile on, without a second to look into the rear view mirror.

Almost makes me wish the allegation was true. Because if it isn't, God knows ESPN and their talking heads won't look into their rear view mirror to see the semblance of journalistic integrity that they ran over back there.

cmon man. Everyone in the whole Saints organization including Loomis lied about bountygate, so don't get all up in arms when people assume they are guilty in this as well.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I'm not buying Poe going that high or a team trading in front of Miami to get anyone other than Tannehill. Otherwise, interesting first round.

Both Jason La Canfora and Todd McShay said they wouldn't be surprised if the Eagles trade up to 7 to get Fletcher Cox (if he makes it that far). There's some smoke there and that's why I mocked it.

[Matthean]

Detroit going DL would reek of Millen drafting.

[molson]

I like how Joe Vitt thinks the concept of someone recording someone else is "impossible" and "something from Star Wars".

[MacroGuru]

There is talk Buffalo will take Luke Kuechly with the 10th pick because of his coverage skills.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

There is talk Buffalo will take Luke Kuechly with the 10th pick because of his coverage skills.

Keeks is a fucking gamer. Buffalo would be lucky to have him.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

There is talk Buffalo will take Luke Kuechly with the 10th pick because of his coverage skills.

I actually heard on an McShay's and Kiper's ESPN podcast (after I posted the mock) that McShay is hearing that there is really good chance that the Panthers will take Kuechly with the 9th overall pick.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Lathum

cmon man. Everyone in the whole Saints organization including Loomis lied about bountygate, so don't get all up in arms when people assume they are guilty in this as well.

I don't get up in arms about what "people" assume, especially when they haven't seen the presented facts. I wouldn't be upset with anything Lathum thinks, Lathum isn't paid to be a competent sports reporter or expert. (That I know of!) I get up in arms with crap journalism and crap analysis.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I don't get up in arms about what "people" assume, especially when they haven't seen the presented facts. I wouldn't be upset with anything Lathum thinks, Lathum isn't paid to be a competent sports reporter or expert. (That I know of!) I get up in arms with crap journalism and crap analysis.

Only if it applies to a team that you have blinders on.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Only if it applies to a team that you have blinders on.

Well, duh. Why would I get up in arms if ESPN does crap journalism over the Kansas City Royals?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Well, duh. Why would I get up in arms if ESPN does crap journalism over the Kansas City Royals?

Because your "getting up arms" lack credibility when you are quick to defend?

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Because your "getting up arms" lack credibility when you are quick to defend?

I could care less about "my" credibility. Call me a loon while actually addressing what I am talking about, that is at least more conducive to a discussion board!

Full disclosure; when I watch a home team with friends and family, I am the calm collected one that keeps everyone grounded and tries to give the full perspective while others may be cursing out the officials.

This is the only non home town sports message board that I frequent, so when something seems out of whack to my normally collective home town fan self, I post it here. Only lately to receive a scoffing instead of at least some actual debate to go with the scoffing. Oh well, if the scoffing means that the vocal majority wants me to deny myself that outlet, well, y'all wish is my command. I am now Saints free around here. Only my loss, obviously.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I could care less about "my" credibility. Call me a loon while actually addressing what I am talking about, that is at least more conducive to a discussion board!

Full disclosure; when I watch a home team with friends and family, I am the calm collected one that keeps everyone grounded and tries to give the full perspective while others may be cursing out the officials.

This is the only non home town sports message board that I frequent, so when something seems out of whack to my normally collective home town fan self, I post it here. Only lately to receive a scoffing instead of at least some actual debate to go with the scoffing. Oh well, if the scoffing means that the vocal majority wants me to deny myself that outlet, well, y'all wish is my command. I am now Saints free around here. Only my loss, obviously.

I understand being annoyed with the belief your team is being portrayed unfairly but what you specifically have a problem with? All I've read today is that the state police and FBI are investigating this - I have no idea what happened but that seems newsworthy that an NFL GM is being investigated for a federal crime. The "Outside the Lines" piece reported this initially, and it's not like they could prove anything, but that's been an investigative-type show for 20+ years, that's always been the format. They typically have the "new" stuff that they've investigated themselves that hadn't been widely reported yet. As for "facts" - they're certainly reporting facts, there were a lot of details in the story - they were alleged facts, some disputed facts, sure, but pretty much every fact is. Again, nothing out of the ordinary as far as what OTL has done forever.

[Shkspr]

Well, I don't know how to judge anyone's credibility here, but I think it's important to take a stand. If Sean Payton did actually kill that 17 year old hooker in Newark, then yes, I think the Saints should terminate his contract. An 18 year old hooker? That I can understand - you run certain risks working the streets, and if you make that choice, you have to expect to get stabbed eleven times in the neck and side on occasion. But a 17 year old? That's just a child. A child with parents who loved her until she became a crack whore at 15 and ran off. The point is, I think children should have a chance to grow up. I mean, look. She only had about six more months on the streets before the meth took enough of her looks and her teeth to make finding her prince impossible. Sean Payton is a wealthy man - he could have been her Richard Gere. Another year of being a working girl, and she would have ended up like Laura San Giacomo. That was the dream. And now, because of some careless words in an alley and Ggregg Wiilliams's lust for blood, that dream is gone. Along with her kidney.

If, on the other hand, Sean Payton only wounded her, and someone came along later and finished the job, then he deserves only a stiff fine. I think you can make the case that it was a legal blow if Payton's strike was between the shoulders and the waist - you can even make the argument that nothing vital had been hit and that she only missed a few minutes of play.

Of course, I haven't been keeping up with ESPN much, but I think I've got the gist of it.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I could care less about "my" credibility. Call me a loon while actually addressing what I am talking about, that is at least more conducive to a discussion board!

Full disclosure; when I watch a home team with friends and family, I am the calm collected one that keeps everyone grounded and tries to give the full perspective while others may be cursing out the officials.

This is the only non home town sports message board that I frequent, so when something seems out of whack to my normally collective home town fan self, I post it here. Only lately to receive a scoffing instead of at least some actual debate to go with the scoffing. Oh well, if the scoffing means that the vocal majority wants me to deny myself that outlet, well, y'all wish is my command. I am now Saints free around here. Only my loss, obviously.

That's the way it is around here and the reason I don't get into debates on this board. There's folks who like to tell you how stupid you are for having the opinion you do. I like the board for other things, so I let it go and avoid getting into debates.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I could care less about "my" credibility. Call me a loon while actually addressing what I am talking about, that is at least more conducive to a discussion board!

Full disclosure; when I watch a home team with friends and family, I am the calm collected one that keeps everyone grounded and tries to give the full perspective while others may be cursing out the officials.

This is the only non home town sports message board that I frequent, so when something seems out of whack to my normally collective home town fan self, I post it here. Only lately to receive a scoffing instead of at least some actual debate to go with the scoffing. Oh well, if the scoffing means that the vocal majority wants me to deny myself that outlet, well, y'all wish is my command. I am now Saints free around here. Only my loss, obviously.

The point is that you yourself said you wouldn't get upset about the same type of reporting if it happened elsewhere, but you're all up in arms about it because it happened to the Saints. Now maybe it's true or maybe it's not, but I know enough about journalism that I sincerely doubt that ESPN wouldn't have said it without a credible source or two. There's enough there to undertake a criminal investigation, which also leads me to believe there may be something to those allegations.

So when your motivations are questioned (and you affirm why someone questioned your motivation) for posting your rant, you get huffy? Interesting response.

The Saints have zero credibility after their constant denials and lies about the Bounty program, despite all the evidence. Just yesterday Vitt was making excuses saying that not one player went "across the white line" attempting to injure a player. Guess what, Vitt? No one believes you. Players were getting offered 5 figures and locker room recognition to go take out another player. Is anyone that gullible to think that had no impact at all on the games?

Is it irresponsible reporting or is this another black mark on the Saints? At this stage, no one knows. So your original rant at this point seems to be poorly aimed - you're off the range blaming ESPN for something that may have happened, rather than doing what the rest of us are doing - waiting for more facts before making any decision. Hence the questioning of your logic and motivations for your rant.

Personally, I hope they're not true, because if they are, the punishments are going to be pretty severe and the NFL, the Saints and their fans don't need yet another blow. The punishment this would require is on par with the Patsies scandal (pretty much banning Loomis from the NFL forever, $750,000 fine and the loss of a 1st round pick) and could put the Saints at a major competitive disadvantage for years to come. No one wants that.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

That's the way it is around here and the reason I don't get into debates on this board. There's folks who like to tell you how stupid you are for having the opinion you do. I like the board for other things, so I let it go and avoid getting into debates.

Show me where anyone was called stupid? The fact is if he can't figure out why no one is willing to give the Saints the benefit of the doubt then he isn't looking at it with any perspective.