07-31-2008, 04:27 PM | #1451 |
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Wow... Pittsburgh ended up with a MUCH better deal than they would have gotten with the Florida proposed deal!
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07-31-2008, 04:30 PM | #1452 |
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I wish Manny similar success to what Nomar and Pedro enjoyed after they left town.
Last edited by molson : 07-31-2008 at 04:30 PM. |
07-31-2008, 04:30 PM | #1453 |
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I can never root for bay again. good to see him go to a team in contention however. Know nothing about the specs other than Hansen was supposedly highly regarded at one point. I would have preferred hermedia just cause he's above league average in the past and still young. A lot of people will probably dog the Pirates for not getting a ton for their guys. But even with a couple more average pitchers this year they would probably be at .500 or a few above right now. I wonder if this means they will bring up Andrew mcclutcheon now or continue to let him develop.
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07-31-2008, 04:33 PM | #1454 | |
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I'm not that impressed with Moss or LaRoche (unless it helps his brother hit in the first half). I know Hanson is a high potential guy but has had many chances already and probably isn't a future closer if Capps recovers. What about the other guy from the Dogers. For some reason the Tampa offer impressed me the most.
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07-31-2008, 04:33 PM | #1455 | |
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The only options to replace Manny as our big RH bat this offseason would be signing Teixiera to a huge deal and moving Youk from 1B where he's borderline GG to LF where he's average defensively, trading for Bay where we would have had to give up more straight up with the Pirates instead of having LA add Laroche, or trading for Holliday from Colorado, which would have cost as much or more than Bay (and his road splits are a big decline.) In 2010, maybe Josh Reddick will be ready, or we can resign Bay if he does well here. Then we have to start worrying about replacing Ortiz/Drew as the big LH bats (Lars should be ready by then.) Hansen has the potential, but he's still not throwing strikes. He's also out of options, and it wasn't guaranteed he'd make the roster next year. Combine that with the injury risk from his delivery and he (along with Moss) is much better for the Pirates than us. I wish we had gotten something to replace him in the pen this year like Ron Mahay, but hopefully Hunter Jones gets his chance now. |
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07-31-2008, 04:35 PM | #1456 |
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Why not? He's always been a good player for the Bucs and apparently a good guy, too. I despise the Red Sox but I still hope Bay does well there.
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07-31-2008, 04:42 PM | #1457 | |
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Why doesn't Andy LaRoche impress you? He has some really nice stats in the minors.
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07-31-2008, 04:52 PM | #1458 | |
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Piss on the beaneaters Anyways I guess laroche is supposed to be good at some point. I could deal with a two laroche infield I suppose. I wonder if this means they project Alvarez as more d a rf or if this was just a deal for now. Anyways I have the feeling that in 2 years well be having the same conversations about doumit to the yanks and mcloth to the sox. Or vice versa. |
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07-31-2008, 04:56 PM | #1459 | |
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LaRoche is a much better talent who should have been playing earlier in LA. Similar to Moss, but LaRoche didn't have better players blocking him. Hansen's a lottery ticket. He has the stuff, but his control is off. In the minors it was because Boras changed his delivery and he lost his slider, but even now that he's gone back to his orginal, violent delivery he still throws too many balls and walks too many guys. |
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07-31-2008, 05:09 PM | #1460 |
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I knew LaRoche was a high end prospect, but didn't realize how good his minor numbers were. I do get concerned when even top prospects bat near the mendoza line in the first 100 or so games. I know limited sample, but worries me as a leading indicator.
I have no problem with this trade, the goal realistically is to be competitive in 2010 or more likely 2011 and Bay and Nady probably aren't part of that plan. I think McClouth and Doumit will still be under Pirates control in those years.
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07-31-2008, 05:37 PM | #1461 |
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I could see the pirates over 81 wins next year and in the wildcard mix in 2010. By then they will still have to find a middle infield and have the dollars to keep mccloth doumit and mahalom
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07-31-2008, 06:00 PM | #1462 | |
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Their revenue's also on the rise ($137 million last year), so they've set themselves up if they increase the payroll (they spent 60% of their revenue on payroll in '04, and only 39% in '07). If they get back up around 60% they'd be close to $85 million or more, assuming continued revenue increases. (all according to Forbes.com) |
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07-31-2008, 06:24 PM | #1463 |
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A few thoughts....
Boston has only Boston to thank for Manny's attitude. He's been doing this for years but now that he isn't the MVP candidate that he once was, they've decided he wasn't worth the headache. Bay is an upgrade for Boston in the sense that he is cheaper (not that money really was an issue) and he isn't a headache. Then again, I can't see how Jason Bay will scare pitchers like Manny did. That isn't a good thing for Drew and Ortiz. And Bay is coming into a stadium that is better for hitters, he's also going to the AL and has struggled in interleague play. And now he's in the midst of a playoff race. As for the Dodgers side. I like the idea of getting some sort of power hitter for the team. And LaRoche hasn't quite panned out like the Dodgers hoped (But neither did Edwin Jackson either), but now the Dodgers are paying like 50 million dollars to three OF's, two of which probably won't be on the field other then in situational roles. But who wants Pierre for his contract duration or Andruw Jones? I think the Dodgers have no interest in picking up Manny's option and will be happy to take the draft picks |
07-31-2008, 06:28 PM | #1464 | |
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They are going to have to make some moves to reach either of those goals, I think. They currently only have one player with a .900+ OPS (Doumit), 2 players with a .850+ OPS (Doumit and McLouth). Meanwhile, Jack Wilson (.666), Freddy Sanchez (.603), and Jose Bautista (.745) will continue to receive a ton of AB's until LaRoche supplants at least one of them. The other LaRoche is a servicable below-average player for his position. The Pirates lost their two best offensive players this year (even though Nady was a perfect sell-high candidate). Doumit is having a classic 27-year-old breakout year, but I think he should be able to maintain an .800-.850 OPS over the next couple of years. The rest of the lineup will be filled with prospects who could pan out and players with limited ceilings. I'm not sure that lineup can compare with the rest of the offenses in the division. And then there is the pitching (the weaker part of the team). It is young with upside, but the Pirates haven't done so well in developing young pitchers. This year, Maholm (3.79) is the only starter with a sub-5.00 ERA. I have no confidence that any of the three other young guns, Duke (5.27), Snell (6.04), and Gorzelanny (6.57) will ever approach their ceilings. While I think the influx of young talent is nice for the Pirates, I think next year is going to be uglier than this year. They need to add a few components and hope that by 2010 things will start to turn around. At least you have some hope, though. I'm a Nats fan.
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07-31-2008, 07:38 PM | #1465 |
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I appreciate the analysis and I do agree with most all of it. Laroach and moss are both going to get a long look the rest of the year in the starting lineup. The offense obviously will go down the rest of this year but I think guys like Sanchez and laroache were headed back to their historic levels.
The pitching is obviously shit. But hope springs eternal. Neal Huntington said Joey bats is a utility hit as of now. He will probably get non tendered or traded. Sanchez has been an amazing out machine all year. They did some crap with batting the pitcher eighth and I was waiting for someone to tell him how many more runs would be created by moving Freddie to the bench. |
07-31-2008, 08:09 PM | #1466 | |
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And here I thought Tampa just dropped the "Devil" in their name.
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07-31-2008, 08:11 PM | #1467 | |
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Curious, but what's Manny's WBA or whatever when he decides to not play because he doesn't like the pitcher going that day?
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07-31-2008, 08:18 PM | #1468 |
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Two things occur to me about this deal:
1. I am more interested now in watching the Dodgers play. 2. As a fan of a team that has been swept twice by the Red Sox in the postseason in the last four years, Ortiz-Manny-Lowell scared me a lot more than Ortiz-Bay-Lowell does.
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07-31-2008, 08:23 PM | #1469 |
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Dont forget JD Drew!
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07-31-2008, 08:27 PM | #1470 |
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07-31-2008, 08:49 PM | #1471 | |
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07-31-2008, 09:13 PM | #1472 | |
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Hey, Bug? Red Sox are picking up the tab on Manny's contract this year. Manny agreed to decline arbitration in exchange for the Dodgers declining his '09 and '10 options. This isn't costing the Dodgers a penny in real cash. |
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07-31-2008, 09:32 PM | #1473 | |
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And AS MVP. And I still don't want him anywhere near a team I like.
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07-31-2008, 09:35 PM | #1474 |
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07-31-2008, 09:49 PM | #1475 | |
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FWIW - 'Tek signed autographs for all the neighborhood kids on halloween and sat out front of his house in newton in a lawn chair, youk stopped for burritos for the team on his way to the park earlier this year and signed autographs for the hundreds of middle school kids who were at the burrito place (early release day), and I have nothing to say about pedroia
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07-31-2008, 09:55 PM | #1476 |
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08-01-2008, 06:18 AM | #1477 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
I think the Pirates did very well, overall. I'm not as down on them for the Nady/Marte deal as I am high on the Yankees for making the trade and I like the Bay trade. One of the Pirates biggest problems is outside of McCutchen they have damn near nothing in the minors. These two trades gave them quantity in Moss, Hansen, Morris, Ohlendorf, Karstens, Daniel McCutchen. They got quality in LaRoche. Then they got a high upside gamble in Tabata. Not bad considering what they gave up. These are moves the old front offices in Pittsburgh were unable to make. I don't think the Pirates are going to be good in '09, but the creativity and willingness to deal Huntington showed is definitely reason to believe the Pirates will have another winning season eventually. |
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08-01-2008, 09:37 AM | #1478 | |
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I do have faith in the current regime that they will find talent and help it develop. For insance their shoestring budget bench has come up huge this year. The Doug m guy with the hard to spell last name has been much more versitile than I thought. He's played third and right good enoughn to spell some guys. Plus he has that classic gritty white boy hustle team leader thing down pat and only makes about a mill. He will Be a good manager in the future The pitching being this awful is not a good sign however. I dunno if doumit not being a great catcher is some of the problem. It can't help. If they can get guys back to merely pitching average next year they should improve some. Although they obviously lost a lot of offense. Laroache just has to work out and right now his major league record is weak. Hopefully he can inspire his brother to hit before July. When Adam is on he's a fuckin beast. He was killing the ball for about the last 100 or so AB before he got hurt. Before that he was weak sauce Doumit and mclouth really responded well this year which is a great sign obviously. With the power porch in right they could use another lefty power bat. I think moss and Andy are both rightys though. They have jobs to lose I'll amend my statements if they don't pay the ransom for Alvarez. They knew going in he was an excess of 10m guarantee guy with boras so they better not go cheap and claim foul play Hansen might get a look at closer. He probably has better stuff than capps. I'm glad capps was hurt cause he was getting lit up before he went down. I sure hope zach duke is hurt. Otherwise he needs to get sent down or moved to the pen. 11 something era in his last 5 starts. He's never going to be the elite guy he flashed as a rookie but I don't think he's this awful. Although his last 2 years seem to indicate he does suck. |
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08-01-2008, 12:57 PM | #1479 | |
Go Reds
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I'm fine with Votto. Look at you, Lathum. CIN > NYM?!! |
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08-02-2008, 07:58 PM | #1480 |
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Boston Red Sox - Ramírez lobbied to stay - The Boston Globe
Of all the Manny moments in Boston, the last ranks as one of the most confounding. Within an hour after Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein informed Manny Ramírez he had been traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers Thursday, Ramírez's agent, Scott Boras, called the Sox back, according to a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations. If the Sox dropped the option years on his contract - which they had agreed to do if they traded him - Boras said Ramírez would not be a problem the rest of the season. For the Sox, the source said, Ramírez's pledge of good behavior only served as a tacit admission that his disruptive conduct of the last couple of weeks had been calculated, and they had had good cause to suspect more was in the offing if they did not trade him. The Sox told him thanks but no thanks, what was done was done, and pack plenty of sunscreen. You think Manny realized he overplayed his hand at the end?
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08-03-2008, 02:42 PM | #1481 |
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Gawd, Gary Matthews Jr. is such a waste of a player.
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08-03-2008, 02:51 PM | #1482 |
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Just had a fun little scuffle in the Royals game. Olivo gets hit (again) by the White Sox- that's gotta be at least 3 if not 4 times this year. Probably not intentional this time with the bases loaded, but it was already 6-0 and looking worse.
Olivo runs out at the pitcher but gives the pitcher a second to react and Pierzynski grabs him from behind. So he gets what he really wants, a chance to punch AJ, who looks like a real tool with his goofy blond hair, a couple of times. Also, John Buck gets to enter the game as a friend of mine put it, "using a little poetic license", as a pinch runner. I would not be surprised to see a White Sox, particularly AJ, hit later on in the game by a scrubby reliever for the Royals. SI
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08-03-2008, 02:51 PM | #1483 |
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Oh, and Teixeira is great. Thank you, short porch in Yankee RF.
I think GMJ owes Teix a chocolate shake or something.
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08-03-2008, 03:03 PM | #1484 |
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Apparently there are no limits to the depth the Angels will go to hand this game to the Yanks. Maybe they're trying to help the Yanks get into the postseason to make sure they play them there.
It's now a tie ballgame. Two more errors let the Bombers tie it up again in the bottom of the eighth. People should be watching this for the pure comedy.
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. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 08-03-2008 at 03:05 PM. |
08-03-2008, 03:13 PM | #1485 |
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Comedy. ARod hits an inning-ending double play ball with the bases loaded. Except Figgins boots it. Everyone safe. Still one out. And now we're losing.
This is just pathetic. Three errors in this inning. Four in the game. A fifth (also by Figgins) was ruled a hometown hit. Absolutely abysmal decision making by management in the sixth in keeping Lackey in. And wasting some terrific play by the offense trying to generate runs with Vlad on a day off and Torii in Arkansas for his grandma's funeral.
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08-03-2008, 03:22 PM | #1486 |
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No one's watching this?
Another ball off of Figgins' glove into left field. It probably deserved the hit it got because it wasn't an easy play, but it was made hard because Figgins leaned the wrong way off of the bat. It was definitely a makeable play. More runs score. Oliver then struck out Sexson for the second out which should have come seven batters ago. Good idea, Darren. If you strike them out, the ball never has a chance for our pathetic defense to fuck it up. Well, out of the inning. We allowed so many runs, Rivera doesn't even need to come in.
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. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 08-03-2008 at 03:24 PM. |
08-03-2008, 03:33 PM | #1487 |
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I was watching and couldn't believe how they were giving them runs.. The Nady homerun then the Tex slam was pretty entertaining ball.
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08-03-2008, 04:03 PM | #1488 |
College Starter
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I was also watching the Angels make 4 errors and give up 10 unearned runs, it truly was comical. The new additions in the Yankee offense, Nady and Pudge, came up big today. The new addition in the Tigers bullpen, Kyle Farnsworth, blew the save.
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08-03-2008, 05:49 PM | #1489 |
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08-03-2008, 06:14 PM | #1490 | |
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This is only Votto's first season. He is hitting .270-something with 13 homers with 60 games to go. I mean, we lived with Sean Casey hitting .300 with 2 home runs a season for like 7 years. I think Votto has a chance to get there within the next year or two. His defense needs some work though. He has botched more than a couple of simple bouncers to first this year, and needs to learn when to come off the bag to avoid an error instead of trying to pick a bad throw clean, then watching it bounce into the seats.
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08-03-2008, 07:25 PM | #1491 |
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Manny has had a solid three games thus far. 8-13 with 2 HR's
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08-03-2008, 08:56 PM | #1492 |
General Manager
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Nah, he got exactly what he wanted, the option years waived. I don't think he cared whether he went to LA or stayed in Boston, as long as he could be a free agent at the end of the season. Boras talked him into it so he can get a cut of Manny's new contract (that's what Boras does, it's Boras first, client second) - it's certainly no slam dunk that he can find that $20/year million in free agency, especially after all this. Last edited by molson : 08-03-2008 at 08:56 PM. |
08-03-2008, 09:26 PM | #1493 |
Coordinator
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Woohoo, first place for the Twins! And they've managed to get there even with Go-Oh For Four-mez in the lineup everyday.
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08-03-2008, 09:38 PM | #1494 |
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Hey, we did our part in KC this weekend. Hell, we'd like our fruit basket at the end of the season for helping you out
2-7 Twins 5-7 White Sox 6-3 Tigers 4-4 Indians SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 08-03-2008 at 09:38 PM. |
08-03-2008, 10:15 PM | #1495 | |
Coordinator
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After incident with the champagne Torii Hunter sent the Royals in 2006 I'm not sure we can do that. Thanks though. |
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08-04-2008, 05:36 PM | #1496 | |
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Ozzie admits to ordering past retaliation - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
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So telling the truth might get you suspended
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 Last edited by miami_fan : 08-04-2008 at 05:38 PM. |
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08-04-2008, 05:43 PM | #1497 |
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08-04-2008, 05:55 PM | #1498 | |
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Yes, because no one has ever come back from a 6-0 deficit with 5 innings to play. Give me a fucking break. Did Ozzie stop pinch-hitting? Allow relievers to continue to be smacked around, because after all, the game is over, why waste any of your other pitchers? |
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08-04-2008, 05:56 PM | #1499 | |
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There's a lot of really stupid unwritten rules that must have been established during the dead ball era. |
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08-04-2008, 11:24 PM | #1500 |
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If you watch the fight, it was clear Olivo didn't want to go after Carrasco. He gave DJ quite a bit of time to react and didn't really go after him. But as soon as Pierzinski tried to get him a little harder, he went right after AJ. Olivo is built like a fireplug- he didn't want to go after the spindly pitcher, he wanted the bitchy opposing catcher and he got his wish.
SI
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