Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Technically I thought what the Kansas regent said was the there was nothing legal tying KU and K-State together in a conference but that's what everyone wants. It was more in response to the notion that the State of Kansas legally required KU and KSU to be a package.

Exactly.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Here was the summarized quote: Sherrer said the regents could support KU and K-State taking different paths if that was in the best interest of each school.

Here's the link.

http://www.kmbc.com/news/23824319/detail.html

That was HIS opinion. That was not an opinion of the entire board. I'm not saying they won't allow them to do that. I'm simply noting that no final decision has been made and it could go either way. But there's a ton of stuff to sort out elsewhere before they even start dealing with what to do with the state of Kansas.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

The Pac-10 doesn't want Kansas or New Mexico for that matter.
New Mexico adds nothing to them and forces them to split the revenu pie one more way and getting nothing in return.
Kansas would add a top noch basketball program, but little else and as it is the current Thursday/Saturday pairs scheudling of basketball will get even harder with more(longer) travel for ASU/uofa.
One of the bigger reasons they want Colorado is the short travel, the Denver market and the fact that CU has alumni in CA/AZ that will help with ticket sales ($). They will settle with Baylor but only if they are guaranteed Texas and Oklahoma.

Wouldn't having Kansas help boost the league pedigree when it comes to the NCAA tournament, though? Every year it seems like I hear the Pac-10 and its alumni fans complaining about getting overlooked when it comes to bids. Wouldn't Kansas being in the league help raise its visibility?

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

The Kansas people seem to understand the Kansas State problem would lead to two MWC schools rather than one major and one mid-major.

Exactly! I'll be the first to say that the Kansas Board of Regents are idiots, but they can't afford to have both schools become mid majors when they could have one that is major. The state of Kansas already has a mid major in Wichita State. They do not need two more.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I'd also point out the Pac Ten could play this smarter. They're on the verge of being saddled with Texas Tech and Baylor. They probably want neither. If Nebraska goes, they have enough leverage to offer Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas and Colorado, leaving room for Utah and New Mexico if that doesn't force Texas and Texas A&M's hands.

Well, a couple things:

1. We don't know exactly how Scott has been pitching things to Texas, and
2. Texas holds significant leverage here

Why would any of those schools bolt if Texas wasn't assured as part of that group? Aside from Colorado, which obviously wants in...

Texas holds a lot of power here. Scott knows that the Big Ten would love to grab Texas, and Texas knows it too.

It's quite the delicate balancing act given all of the schools and conferences involved, which is why it's so fascinating to me. It's a lot more complicated than just thinking about what would make the best football matchups, otherwise Texas Tech and Baylor wouldn't even be in this conversation.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That was HIS opinion. That was not an opinion of the entire board. I'm not saying they won't allow them to do that. I'm simply noting that no final decision has been made and it could go either way. But there's a ton of stuff to sort out elsewhere before they even start dealing with what to do with the state of Kansas.

Remember those quotes were taken not long after a board meeting regarding the Big 12, KU, and KSU. I don't know a lot about politics, but I would guess he was giving the board's opinion rather than his own personal opinion in this instance.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Wouldn't having Kansas help boost the league pedigree when it comes to the NCAA tournament, though? Every year it seems like I hear the Pac-10 and its alumni fans complaining about getting overlooked when it comes to bids. Wouldn't Kansas being in the league help raise its visibility?

I'm betting that in an ideal world, the Pac-10 would like to add Kansas, especially if they didn't have to take Kansas State in a package deal. But in order to get Texas, they may have to take Texas Tech and Baylor, and those two are likely what would keep Colorado and Kansas out.

If the Pac-10 can limit the Texas grab to just Texas and A&M (or Texas and Texas Tech if the Aggies find a BCS home elsewhere), I would think Kansas would be on the invite list right behind Colorado.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Wouldn't having Kansas help boost the league pedigree when it comes to the NCAA tournament, though? Every year it seems like I hear the Pac-10 and its alumni fans complaining about getting overlooked when it comes to bids. Wouldn't Kansas being in the league help raise its visibility?

This isn't about basketball. If it was, we'd be talking about Villanova, Connecticut and Georgetown.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by digamma

This isn't about basketball. If it was, we'd be talking about Villanova, Connecticut and Georgetown.

+1

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by digamma

This isn't about basketball. If it was, we'd be talking about Villanova, Connecticut and Georgetown.

No, it's not about basketball. I get that.

But their football program has been non-shitty for the last few years - seems like it's on the way up - and if travel is a concern, Kansas is one fuck of a lot closer than Villanova.

Hell, it's not that much further than Colorado would be in the first place, you know? If they're willing to take CU, you'd have to think they'd be willing to take ku.

[Galaxy]

If the Big Ten goes to 16, with the Pac-10/SEC/ACC following, does this mean that Notre Dame is going to be screwed if they don't join the Big Ten? Also, would this also be the end for the Big East well? Would the non-football schools spilt and create a new conference, with the remaining members going to new conferences?

I don't see the love over Baylor. A private, religious school. I don't get why they are being pushed over other state schools.

Where do the Oklahoma schools go? Are they the big kids that are left out?

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

The Kansas people seem to understand the Kansas State problem would lead to two MWC schools rather than one major and one mid-major.

I think they understand that but would rather still have two MWC schools than one major and one mid-major. KU will change its tune when this becomes reality though.

I still stand by what I said earlier this week, even more so now in the light that MU may not be in the first phase of Big Ten expansion. MU, KU, K-State, Iowa State and Baylor should convene an immediate meeting in Kansas City, draw up a list of commissioner candidates and an invite list. It's every team for themselves.

Call BYU, Utah, TCU, Memphis, Houston, Boise State, Colorado State, etc. from the MWC, CUSA and WAC. You can have a 12-14 team conference that would qualify for a BCS bid in year one based on the BCS formula and would immediately be just one notch below the BCS conferences and one notch above the mid-majors. It would be more TV money and more prestige. It would be a drop for the Big 12 schools and a steup up for the other conferences. But it would be better for everyone.

I don't think that will happen though, because I think the Big 12 schools are all looking for their own life rafts. They are all going to try and claw their way into the best existing conference they can.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

If the Big Ten goes to 16, with the Pac-10/SEC/ACC following, does this mean that Notre Dame is going to be screwed if they don't join the Big Ten? Also, would this also be the end for the Big East well? Would the non-football schools spilt and create a new conference, with the remaining members going to new conferences?

There's little doubt that if the Big-12 collapses and the Pac-10 swoops in to go to 16 that the chain reaction will lead to Notre Dame giving in and agreeing to join the Big Ten.

I don't see the love over Baylor. A private, religious school. I don't see why they are being pushed over other state schools.

I dunno - state politics I guess.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

No, it's not about basketball. I get that.

But their football program has been non-shitty for the last few years - seems like it's on the way up - and if travel is a concern, Kansas is one fuck of a lot closer than Villanova.

Hell, it's not that much further than Colorado would be in the first place, you know? If they're willing to take CU, you'd have to think they'd be willing to take ku.

Sure, but not at the expense of risking a miss on Texas.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I dunno - state politics I guess.

That's what I don't get. Wouldn't state politics protect the interests of the state schools first?

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

No, it's not about basketball. I get that.

But their football program has been non-shitty for the last few years - seems like it's on the way up - and if travel is a concern, Kansas is one fuck of a lot closer than Villanova.

Hell, it's not that much further than Colorado would be in the first place, you know? If they're willing to take CU, you'd have to think they'd be willing to take ku.

Colorado is a good fit because of their current relationships with the Pac 10. Denver would be a nice market to add as well (though I would argue KC is competitive for college sports). Colorado's football program is probably on the same level of Kansas right now vs when they were battling for Big 8 titles. I'd still say their program is still stronger overall, but Kansas is making up ground after pretty much destroying the program in Lawrence in the 90's because they wouldn't invest into the program. I agree though that the "travel" argument doesn't hold much water since you're likely flying from ASU/AU anyway. It's a difference of an hour probably. Either program would be lucky to get into the Pac 10/Big 12 south deal.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

That's what I don't get. Wouldn't state politics protect the interests of the state schools first?

Not when those politicians are alumni of the private school

[Abe Sargent]

I don;t care what happens, but at the end, I want to see WVU and Pitt in the same conference, preferably with VTech, Maryland and Penn State in it too, and that's never going to happen, so ah well.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

That's what I don't get. Wouldn't state politics protect the interests of the state schools first?

Not if you take into account the egos of the politicians that are alumni of Baylor.

[kcchief19]

Regardless of what happens, there will be some interesting games during the coming year. If Nebraska goes to the Big Ten and leaves Missouri behind, Tiger fans are going to go to game in Lincoln in droves, and if we win the goal posts are coming down and we're setting fire to the town on the way out.

Any North-South game and any Nebraska game has the potential to get ugly.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I think they understand that but would rather still have two MWC schools than one major and one mid-major. KU will change its tune when this becomes reality though.

I still stand by what I said earlier this week, even more so now in the light that MU may not be in the first phase of Big Ten expansion. MU, KU, K-State, Iowa State and Baylor should convene an immediate meeting in Kansas City, draw up a list of commissioner candidates and an invite list. It's every team for themselves.

Call BYU, Utah, TCU, Memphis, Houston, Boise State, Colorado State, etc. from the MWC, CUSA and WAC. You can have a 12-14 team conference that would qualify for a BCS bid in year one based on the BCS formula and would immediately be just one notch below the BCS conferences and one notch above the mid-majors. It would be more TV money and more prestige. It would be a drop for the Big 12 schools and a steup up for the other conferences. But it would be better for everyone.

I don't think that will happen though, because I think the Big 12 schools are all looking for their own life rafts. They are all going to try and claw their way into the best existing conference they can.

So then the Kansas board would allow both their teams to become mid majors. Because let's be honest, if you're not a major then you're a mid major no matter how you slice it. There might be varying degrees of mid major, but you're still a mid major.

Why would KU, KSU, ISU, etc work with MU now?

[cartman]

looks like Blade beat me too it. Had to take a call before I could hit the post button.

[the_meanstrosity]

Cartman, are you hearing anything down there in Texas? With Nebraska likely gone is it a sure thing that the Big 12 is dead?

Well, looks like I answered my own question. Just saw Chip Brown talking about Texas and Texas A&M meeting tomorrow to make sure they are on the same page. I'm guessing the Big 12 is done.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

That's what I don't get. Wouldn't state politics protect the interests of the state schools first?

Which ones are being left out? UTEP?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by cartman

Not if you take into account the egos of the politicians that are alumni of Baylor.

Thanks (Don't know the background of the Texas politicians).

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by digamma

Sure, but not at the expense of risking a miss on Texas.

Right. But if you can't get Texas, and you're hellbent on expanding anyway, even by inviting some of the Big XII schools, Kansas doesn't seem like an awful consolation prize.

Now pardon me while I go retch into the toilet for having even uttered those words.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Cartman, are you hearing anything down there in Texas? With Nebraska likely gone is it a sure thing that the Big 12 is dead?

Well, looks like I answered my own question. Just saw Chip Brown talking about Texas and Texas A&M meeting tomorrow to make sure they are on the same page. I'm guessing the Big 12 is done.

Haven't heard anything other than that.

Here was an op-ed piece from one of the local sports writers:

Longhorns are not the villain in expansion scenarios

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wow. This isn't even close to resolved yet. There are good sources within Mizzou saying that most of the information that Kietzmann spoke of is not true and that Mizzou is still in play for a Big 10 bid.

This is crazy.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Wow. This isn't even close to resolved yet. There are good sources within Mizzou saying that most of the information that Kietzmann spoke of is not true and that Mizzou is still in play for a Big 10 bid.

This is crazy.

Didn't your "sources" earlier suggest Missouri already had a bid? This Christmas, I'm getting you some new sources.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Didn't your "sources" earlier suggest Missouri already had a bid? This Christmas, I'm getting you some new sources.

To be fair, I am hearing the same things from a lot of different Mizzou sources today

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

To be fair, I am hearing the same things from a lot of different Mizzou sources today

Oh I don't doubt that Missouri is still in the Big Ten's cross hairs. I just love the fact MBBF has these "sources" that have been wrong numerous times in the past and yet he keeps throwing them out there till eventually one sticks.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by duckman

My sources told me that Missouri was starting a one team conference. This will give them more opportunities to play with themselves.

I'm still standing by my source.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Oh I don't doubt that Missouri is still in the Big Ten's cross hairs. I just love the fact MBBF has these "sources" that have been wrong numerous times in the past and yet he keeps throwing them out there till eventually one sticks.

I'll go one further. Cracks me up that there's a reasonably large contingent on this board that loves to throw out "sources" when they're talking about recruiting or expansion or what-have-you.

Unless we've got a much larger journalist contingent on board than I previously believed, most of those "sources" boil down to "other boards."

Or possibly "I read it on ESPN but I don't want to SAY that."

So much of this information has to be third and fourth-hand at best.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I'll go one further. Cracks me up that there's a reasonably large contingent on this board that loves to throw out "sources" when they're talking about recruiting or expansion or what-have-you.

Unless we've got a much larger journalist contingent on board than I previously believed, most of those "sources" boil down to "other boards."

Or possibly "I read it on ESPN but I don't want to SAY that."

So much of this information has to be third and fourth-hand at best.

Another tangent is that things like this change very quickly. Someone with knowledge posts information one day that might change two days later. That person then goes back and pulls information that was accurate at that time and says, "See! You were wrong!". It's not always that it's wrong as much as things may have changed in a situation as fluid as this.

I'm still very confident that MU ends up in the Big 10 when the dust settles.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by duckman

I'm still standing by my source.

Now i can understand why southern schools like texas or OU can feel Mizzou was all too willing to jump ship and try to get a ticket out of the Big 12, but i just dont understand how they cannot understand that they are the reasons behind Mizzou, and by proxy Nebraska and CU, are so happy to bail on the conference. Simple things like revenue sharing, a staple in other leagues, or even minor details like fixed bowl selection order, and you wouldnt have this discontent. Its a double edged sword, as the south schools like the unfair system in place that favors them, then wonders why the north schools could be so ungrateful and want to leave for greener pastures. It would really be quite amusing if it werent quite so tragic for whatever schools are left behind after this

[duckman]

Report: Nebraska leaving Big 12, joining Big Ten | NewsOK.com

If Nebraska leaves, it is unlikely the Big 12 can be saved, according to the report. It is believed the Big Ten is moving away from issuing Missouri an invite, focusing instead on Notre Dame, Rutgers and Maryland.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

My sources tell me that if Nebraska leaves, it is not likely that the Big 12 will be saved. I also hear that the Big Ten is distancing themselves from Missouri - choosing to look at Notre Dame, Rutgers or Maryland instead. Will try to dig up more info.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

My sources tell me that if Nebraska leaves, it is not likely that the Big 12 will be saved. I also hear that the Big Ten is distancing themselves from Missouri - choosing to look at Notre Dame, Rutgers or Maryland instead. Will try to dig up more info.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Another tangent is that things like this change very quickly. Someone with knowledge posts information one day that might change two days later. That person then goes back and pulls information that was accurate at that time and says, "See! You were wrong!". It's not always that it's wrong as much as things may have changed in a situation as fluid as this.

I'm still very confident that MU ends up in the Big 10 when the dust settles.

Once again: unless there is a much larger journalist contingent on this board than I previously believed, or we have some institutional bigwigs here, the idea that anybody posting in this thread has anything but third- or fourth-hand "knowledge" at *best* is absolutely hilarious to me.

What we have is a bunch of "this guy I know knows a guy who knows a guy whose cousin's roommate's sister says this is gonna happen," but it gets dressed up as "sources" because that sounds better.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Simple things like revenue sharing, a staple in other leagues

There is revenue sharing in the Big 12. All of the teams agreed to the method at the formation of the conference. Last year there was around $102 million split between the schools, with Texas at the top, receiving $10.2 million, and Baylor at the bottom, receiving $7.1 million.

How the Big 12 teams rank in revenue-sharing funds - Big 12 Blog - ESPN

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Another tangent is that things like this change very quickly. Someone with knowledge posts information one day that might change two days later. That person then goes back and pulls information that was accurate at that time and says, "See! You were wrong!". It's not always that it's wrong as much as things may have changed in a situation as fluid as this.

I'm still very confident that MU ends up in the Big 10 when the dust settles.

Yeah, dude, but there's a difference between saying, "this is what is being talked about and it looks like it is going to go this way" and saying, "it's a done deal. Alden has notified the Big XII that Missouri is leaving."

If the second half is accurate, it isn't just a "time of statement" thing. It is either still accurate today or it was never accurate.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by duckman

Report: Nebraska leaving Big 12, joining Big Ten | NewsOK.com

I'd note that OrangeBloods.com is getting its information directly from the current Minister of Misinformation (i.e. Dodds) right now. Dodds is going after some schools right now with a flame torch, but the information being spread isn't totally accurate. I'd like to say more, but I'll let that statement stand on its own merit.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'd note that OrangeBloods.com is getting its information directly from the current Minister of Misinformation (i.e. Dodds) right now. Dodds is going after some schools right now with a flame torch, but the information being spread isn't totally accurate. I'd like to say more, but I'll let that statement stand on its own merit.

ROFL

Dodds is one of the most respected ADs in the country.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Once again: unless there is a much larger journalist contingent on this board than I previously believed, or we have some institutional bigwigs here, the idea that anybody posting in this thread has anything but third- or fourth-hand "knowledge" at *best* is absolutely hilarious to me.

What we have is a bunch of "this guy I know knows a guy who knows a guy whose cousin's roommate's sister says this is gonna happen," but it gets dressed up as "sources" because that sounds better.

Well, MU does have the #1 journalism school in the nation.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

ROFL

Dodds is one of the most respected ADs in the country.

You and I differ on how 'respect' is defined.

[duckman]

My sources tell me that MBBF was caught masturbating to the Big 10 Network programming but put the lotion and the kleenex away when he heard that Nebraska would be the only invite.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'd note that OrangeBloods.com is getting its information directly from the current Minister of Misinformation (i.e. Dodds) right now. Dodds is going after some schools right now with a flame torch, but the information being spread isn't totally accurate. I'd like to say more, but I'll let that statement stand on its own merit.

Are there snipers outside your window?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You and I differ on how 'respect' is defined.

Your AD seems to think highly of him.

SBJ Athletic Director of the Year: DeLoss Dodds

Missouri athletic director Mike Alden met Dodds in 1996, shortly after Alden became AD at Southwest Texas State University (now Texas State University) in San Marcos, just 30 miles down the road from Austin. “I cold-called him,” Alden said. “He didn’t know me from Adam.”

Alden hoped that, at the very least, he could spend a little time with Dodds and kept his fingers crossed that Dodds might become a mentor. “And he has done that,” Alden said, “in so many ways.”

Dodds’ survival philosophy is simple. “Every minute of every day, you do the best you can.”
Dodds’ willingness to spend time nurturing relationships is mentioned often as one of his most enduring — and endearing — traits. “He’s a mentor to a lot of people,” Castiglione said, “many of whom are doing exceedingly well in the business.”

The skills that have helped him build a wide-ranging web of relationships also help when it comes to shaping debate, whether over the future of a conference or, as recently, over whether to add a 12th game to the Division I-A football schedule.

“With his reputation and the respect he has nationally, he has the ability to change policy,” Alden said. “When he speaks, everyone in our profession listens.”

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by duckman

My sources tell me that MBBF was caught masturbating to the Big 10 Network programming but put the lotion and the kleenex away when he heard that Nebraska would be the only invite.

You sources are awfully infatuated with masturbation judging from your information thus far. Not that there's anything wrong with that............

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Once again: unless there is a much larger journalist contingent on this board than I previously believed, or we have some institutional bigwigs here, the idea that anybody posting in this thread has anything but third- or fourth-hand "knowledge" at *best* is absolutely hilarious to me.

What we have is a bunch of "this guy I know knows a guy who knows a guy whose cousin's roommate's sister says this is gonna happen," but it gets dressed up as "sources" because that sounds better.

Eh, I dunno how true that is.

While I'm more skeptical than not, it isn't beyond the pale that there could be at least a half dozen or more people here who know someone who is, say, no more than 1 step removed from being in a position of some authority on this sort of subject.

I mean, the President of UGA lives literally across the street from me. My son has gone to school with roughly a half dozen children of UGA coaches or ass't coaches. And we haven't even talked about key donors to athletic department and/or schools who would have better access to reliable info than the average Joe Blow.

Make no mistake, I ain't tight with any of these people and make no claim to having heard jack shit from any of them. I'm just kind of anti-social that way.
But even the powerful & elite do have friends and they aren't always from the power/elite classes.

Given the makeup of the FOFC contingent, I don't think it's too hard to believe that there are several people who post here who've heard this or that from ostensibly reputable sources.