NFL "Teams Behaving Badly" Thread: 2015

[jeff061]

And when the pitcher is caught what happens?

1. he tells the ump everybody does it and continues to pitch?

or

2. he's ejected from the game?

Are you not keeping up with this shit? There are fucking idiot "reporters" out there calling for Belichick to get fired and at the very least suspended from the super bowl. For draft picks to be taken away.

People aren't saying Brady should have been ejected at half time.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Sweed

And when the pitcher is caught what happens?

1. he tells the ump everybody does it and continues to pitch?

or

2. he's ejected from the game?

2. He's ejected from the game.

2a. Opposing team accuses Clay Buccholz of doing the same thing.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jeff061

This whole thing is idiotic. Every single player does this and has been doing it since the sport existed.

I didn't think I was being too much of a homer about it. But there is just too much of a delta between everyone else and me right now. I can't believe this is even a topic of discussion still, it even seems to be gathering momentum. So I guess I'm just a homer and I'll grind my teeth in bitter silence.

It depends on if what the other players did was against the rules. Deflating the footballs is against the rules. Is the other stuff that people talk about doing to the footballs?

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Are you not keeping up with this shit? There are fucking idiot "reporters" out there calling for Belichick to get fired and at the very least suspended from the super bowl. For draft picks to be taken away.

People aren't saying Brady should have been ejected at half time.

He's basically saying if everybody does it then breaking a rule is ok and uses a pitcher doctoring a baseball as the example. I'm pretty sure that he is wrong and there are consequences for doing something to the ball. Not too hard to grasp.

[jeff061]

I'm ok with a punishment, but what people are talking about is not equating to a pitcher being tossed from the game.

First off, Brady did this, not Belichick. Belichick is not in there between the QB and the ball boy deflating balls. Want to chuck Brady from the game for it? Sure whatever. Precedent set, but not an unreasonable one. Though I'd prefer a "remind everyone of the rule because we are enforcing it more strongly now" memo gets sent. Who knows, it very well may have.

Dock picks, suspend and/or fire Belichick for it? Fucking retarded.

[Kodos]

So Belichick hasn't exhibited a history of cheating or subverting NFL rules?

[jeff061]

And a wagon has wheels.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I'm ok with a punishment, but what people are talking about is not equating to a pitcher being tossed from the game.

First off, Brady did this, not Belichick. Belichick is not in there between the QB and the ball boy deflating balls. Want to chuck Brady from the game for it? Sure whatever. Precedent set, but not an unreasonable one. Though I'd prefer a "remind everyone of the rule because we are enforcing it more strongly now" memo gets sent. Who knows, it very may well have.

Dock picks, suspend and/or fire Belichick for it? Fucking retarded.

First of all, when you're using the entire internet, especially in this time of HOT SPORTS TAKES, to define "people", you've already lost. Yes, some of "people" are crazy.

Second, losing picks and suspensions have already occurred for "happening under their watch" even if they're not directly involved. See: Sean Peyton. Although I'm not sure why you think losing picks is so egregious. Teams have been docked picks for circumventing rules before, especially as it pertains to the salary cap.

eta: Belichik realizing that officials can be lazy about testing balls, and also realizing there is no punishment for actually providing an improperly inflated ball pre-game because all the refs will do is pump it up...that seems like the exact type of thing he would come up with.

[RainMaker]

I don't know why losing picks is considered outlandish. What punishment does a team that breaks the rules deserve? Especially one with a history of it.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I'm ok with a punishment, but what people are talking about is not equating to a pitcher being tossed from the game.

First off, Brady did this, not Belichick. Belichick is not in there between the QB and the ball boy deflating balls. Want to chuck Brady from the game for it? Sure whatever. Precedent set, but not an unreasonable one. Though I'd prefer a "remind everyone of the rule because we are enforcing it more strongly now" memo gets sent. Who knows, it very well may have.

Dock picks, suspend and/or fire Belichick for it? Fucking retarded.

So you would be good with Brady being suspended from the Superbowl?

[jeff061]

I'm addressing the only perspectives that have bubbled into my field of vision.

I think it's egregious because deflating the ball is a nothing crime. And comparing it to headhunting or spygate is just moronic and fueled by anti-Patriots agenda. In this case Irsay and the national media.

[Buccaneer]

Kodos, does your subverting includes lining up in a legal formation with properly announced eligibility or do you want to believe that doing something legally different was wrong?

[ColtCrazy]

Agreed. Picks or suspension will come out of this, but nothing will happen till after the Super Bowl which will cause a whole other set of issues.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So you would be good with Brady being suspended from the Superbowl?

I wouldn't call it "good", I do want to win. I'd consider it bizarre to start enforcing a rule for the first time that everyone breaks by suspending one of the biggest stars in the league the week of the super bowl. I think generally in these situations the league makes everyone aware of the sensitivity and starts enforcing next season

That said, it still makes a hell of a lot more sense than most of the garbage I've been reading.

Again, the level of infraction here is so small, addressing it super bowl week seems like a stretch, the amount of press it's getting is mind blowing.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Kodos, does your subverting includes lining up in a legal formation with properly announced eligibility or do you want to believe that doing something legally different was wrong?

That was fine. I have no issue with that. I do wonder if the refs communicate the eligible/ineligible info to the defense. Does anyone know?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I'm addressing the only perspectives that have bubbled into my field of vision.

I think it's egregious because deflating the ball is a nothing crime. And comparing it to headhunting or spygate is just moronic and fueled by anti-Patriots agenda. In this case Irsay and the national media.

Don't you understand the perception you and other Pats fans are giving off?

You are saying " yeah they cheated, but it didn't give them an advantage, and they weren't cheating AS BADLY as they have in the past, so why is everyone so annoyed"

Cheating is still cheating.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I think it's egregious because deflating the ball is a nothing crime.

This is a stupid rule so I am going to break it.

So, how do you punish a "nothing crime?" (Outside of a lethal chokehold, that is.)

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I think it's egregious because deflating the ball is a nothing crime.

If it was a nothing crime, they wouldn't have done it. Obviously they felt some advantage was to be gained from it.

[Brian Swartz]

I'm ok with a punishment, but what people are talking about is not equating to a pitcher being tossed from the game.

First off, Brady did this, not Belichick. Belichick is not in there between the QB and the ball boy deflating balls. Want to chuck Brady from the game for it? Sure whatever. Precedent set, but not an unreasonable one. Though I'd prefer a "remind everyone of the rule because we are enforcing it more strongly now" memo gets sent. Who knows, it very well may have.

This is pretty much where I'm at. I think there should be punishment. I think the discussion and selective outrage(i.e., the Rodgers statements) is way out of proportion as well. FWIW, I have become someone who roots for the Pats and will do so in the Super Bowl largely because of the oft-irrational hatred they get from certain quarters. All major competitive sports are dirty to a certain extent, and it's pretty evident that what the fans as a whole want isn't actual integrity but the appearance of it. It's not defending things as 'everyone does it', but just the idea that let's seriously drop the outrage because nobody should be surprised by things like this. I assume it's going on all the time by most if not all teams. I think it's naïve not to.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

That was fine. I have no issue with that. I do wonder if the refs communicate the eligible/ineligible info to the defense. Does anyone know?

Yeah, my only issue with their unbalanced line/tackle eligible "trick play" is whether the officials are giving the defense adequate notice about the tackle eligible. It's a bit unseemly if it's a situation where the official announces it to the defense a moment before the ball is snapped.

I would be extremely disappointed if the Seahawks aren't studying the shit out of the film on this though - if they get caught flat-footed on a play like this, shame on them.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm always OK with punishing the boss for the actions of subordinates, if that's what this was. It's the responsibility of the boss both to know what's going on and to hire good people. It's way too easy for the boss to keep himself willfully unaware to protect himself.

As a completely tangential economic observation...if this concept were more strictly enforced across most industries....we would see a lot less consolidation of industries into 1 mega-corp like we see in almost every industry thats been around longer than 5 years.

And the economic benefit part is that you remove the consolidation of "redundant" workers to a more reasonable level. Now THAT is a middle class economics solution.

[Dr. Sak]

Here's a good explaination of the process with the balls and I'm sure other things most weren't aware that officials have to do:

Pereira on #DeflateGate "This is cheating and it is something the league will deal with harshly" - YouTube

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by miked

Don't they have hundreds of cameras all over the sideline? Can they go through footage to see if balls are being deflated?

This is what sticks with me - if the NFL really cared about this issue, they would put in place more controlled measures than they currently employ. I suppose this might be the incident that causes them to become more strict about their procedures with football air pressure, but it's rather telling to me that they don't already have more strict processes in place - tells me that the league really doesn't consider this that big of a deal.

[JPhillips]

To those saying everybody does it, how do you explain the Colts not doing it?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm jut awaiting final word on who did what. And why.

If some backroom staffer that no one could even guess the name of in three tries did it 'cause he read somewhere it was a good idea or whatever, fine the organization for failure to supervise employees.

If the team knowingly submitted them underweight pre-inspection then fine 'em ... and suspend the nitwit officiating crew member that failed to catch it when he was supposed to.

If a coach/player directly instructed someone to alter the balls after inspection, yeah, I'd be fine with a suspension ... whether that's week one next year or the Super Bowl matters not one iota afaic. Levy the punishment once you know the culprit, not when it's convenient.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

This is what sticks with me - if the NFL really cared about this issue, they would put in place more controlled measures than they currently employ. I suppose this might be the incident that causes them to become more strict about their procedures with football air pressure, but it's rather telling to me that they don't already have more strict processes in place - tells me that the league really doesn't consider this that big of a deal.

That still doesn't excuse cheating.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

This is what sticks with me - if the NFL really cared about this issue, they would put in place more controlled measures than they currently employ. I suppose this might be the incident that causes them to become more strict about their procedures with football air pressure, but it's rather telling to me that they don't already have more strict processes in place - tells me that the league really doesn't consider this that big of a deal.

The NFLs mistake is assuming all 32 teams have integrity.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

This is a stupid rule so I am going to break it.

So, how do you punish a "nothing crime?" (Outside of a lethal chokehold, that is.)

I'm not going to go around in circles with the haters and the blowhards(or in Lathum's case, the idiots). I didn't mean literally nothing and I already addressed how I think it should be punished. Firing or suspending the head coach and docking draft picks is just beyond any level of stupidity I can comprehend.

I never said it should be ignored and that nothing should be done. Like I said, suspend Brady a game? I can see that. Picking this specific upcoming game to do it after decades of this rule being broken? That would seem a little odd to me, unless he had explicitly been warned. But even if they went and did that it would make far more sense than a lot of the things being thrown around out there.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I'm not going to go around in circles with the haters and the blowhards(or in Lathum's case, the idiots). I didn't mean literally nothing and I already addressed how I think it should be punished. Firing or suspending the head coach and docking draft picks is just beyond any level of stupidity I can comprehend.

I never said it should be ignored and that nothing should be done. Like I said, suspend Brady a game? I can see that. Picking this specific upcoming game to do it after decades of this rule being broken? That would seem a little odd to me, unless he had explicitly been warned. But even if they went and did that it would make far more sense than a lot of the things being thrown around out there.

Eli-2 Brady-0

[Logan]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I'm addressing the only perspectives that have bubbled into my field of vision.

I think it's egregious because deflating the ball is a nothing crime. And comparing it to headhunting or spygate is just moronic and fueled by anti-Patriots agenda. In this case Irsay and the national media.

I'm not sure what's funnier...your overall stance on this issue, or the fact you believe the national media is being led into this by a guy who the media as a whole makes fun of at every given opportunity.

[Grover]

Report: NFL Was Aware Of Patriots Deflation Allegations Before Sunday

But did nothing until this weekend?

The NFL takes after their commissioner with absolutely no integrity.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm not sure what's funnier...your overall stance on this issue, or the fact you believe the national media is being led into this by a guy who the media as a whole makes fun of at every given opportunity.

Media is doing what they do not because of Irsay, but because this is a topic that's going to make them a lot of money. Any other team doesn't garner the same amount of interest and they don't beat it dead.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Grover

Report: NFL Was Aware Of Patriots Deflation Allegations Before Sunday

But did nothing until this weekend?

The NFL takes after their commissioner with absolutely no integrity.

I'm guessing the past complaints were taped on the underside of the Ray Rice video.

[jeff061]

And before that's thrown in my face. I have already said if Brady is deflating those balls after he's been warned. Toss him.

Will be pretty funny if the NFL was aware and didn't say anything though. I give it even odds.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Grover

Report: NFL Was Aware Of Patriots Deflation Allegations Before Sunday

But did nothing until this weekend?

The NFL takes after their commissioner with absolutely no integrity.

Maybe Belichick should be the commissioner!

[stevew]

I enjoy every moment of Roger's empire of lies falling apart. That being said, this is such hubbub for something that should be easily prevented

[miked]

Originally Posted by Kodos

That was fine. I have no issue with that. I do wonder if the refs communicate the eligible/ineligible info to the defense. Does anyone know?

I was reading that the refs specifically told the Ravens not to cover the ineligible RBs. That being said, the Pats were running a no-huddle, so I think it would be very hard for the defense to adjust to that given about 3 seconds.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by miked

I was reading that the refs specifically told the Ravens not to cover the ineligible RBs. That being said, the Pats were running a no-huddle, so I think it would be very hard for the defense to adjust to that given about 3 seconds.

The refs announced to the entire stadium not to cover Vereen. #34. It was completely audible at home.

[Kodos]

I think they need to have the ref stand over the ball to prevent a snap for 5 seconds any time a special eligible/ineligible player is reported.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by miked

I was reading that the refs specifically told the Ravens not to cover the ineligible RBs. That being said, the Pats were running a no-huddle, so I think it would be very hard for the defense to adjust to that given about 3 seconds.

There was about 10 seconds between the refs saying the player was ineligible and the snap each time the Patriots used the formation.

[SackAttack]

God, I hate Firefox on a laptop. Try to backspace over a typo and it goes O HAI YOU WANT TO GO BACK A PAGE AND LOSE EVERYTHING YOU JUST POSTED RIGHT.

So reposted as best as I can manage:

1) it's not a "nothing" crime. If it is, why do it?
2) if "everybody does it," why hasn't there previously been a movement to get rid of the rule? If each offense controls their own set of game balls, if this really is a harmless thing with absolutely no advantage, why hasn't the league said 'go nuts; inflate to whatever PSI your quarterback wants'? Seems like the owners would get behind that if their coaches asked for it...unless there's a feeling that there's an advantage to manipulating the balls and you have a Prisoner's Dilemma going on, where nobody wants anybody else to get the same advantage they think they're getting.
3) Perception matters, and in a season that's already been filled with embarrassments to the "Shield," this is worse. This is happening during the run-up to the league's marquee showcase, and no matter how this game comes out, there will be loud noises from one group or another. If the Patriots win, there will be investigative journalists digging to see if they can uncover whether the Patriots might have cheated in other ways in the Super Bowl and how. If the Patriots lose, there will be a contingent that claims that it's proof that the Ravens and Colts were cheated, that the Patriots only got there through skullduggery. Fair or unfair, the focus is going to be on the Patriots and their reputation and not on the crowning of a champion.

So the NFL is going to be a little sensitive to this when it comes to meting out punishment, if they decide punishment is merited. Even so, I don't think Goodell will go as far as I would.

See, me, I'd say "if you're breaking the rules in one place, it's unlikely that's the one and only place you've chosen to scuff the line in the sand." I'd also say that the league needs to come down on the issue with both feet. Yes, the best players and coaches will always be looking for any edge they can get, but I would be looking to send the message that it just isn't worth it to break the rules to get that edge. Give 'em what I call the "death penalty."

Confiscate all draft picks for the next four years. In year five, confiscate the 1st-3rd rounders. Year six, 1st and 2nd rounders. Year 7, the first rounder.

Limit roster replenishment to free agents, undrafted free agents, and player-for-player trades. What's the penalty for going over the salary cap? Loss of draft picks?

If that's all, restrict the team's ability to renegotiate existing contracts during that period, also. Don't hit them with the loss of additional choices if they go over the cap during that seven year window, but don't let them sign veteran players in any season in which they'd be over the cap, either. UDFAs for the rookie minimum if the roster needs filling out. That way you limit the efficacy of using free agency as a way to escape the damage done by not having any draft picks at all for four years, and of losing 18 of 21 picks which might be reasonably expected to yield starters over a seven year period.

Harsh? Maybe. Would a perennial loser who has a magical season risk it anyway for a once-in-a-generation shot at a Lombardi Trophy? Maybe. But the teams who do the bulk of the water-carrying when it comes to prestige wouldn't risk undermining all that for the sake of one season. Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Cowboys, etc. Well, maybe not that last team, but you get what I'm saying.

The league has a perception problem, and it's going to overshadow the outcome of the Super Bowl no matter what happens. The punishment I proposed may be outsized relative to the advantage gained by tampering with the balls, but I feel like the NFL has to come down on this with both feet if they want to make sure this Isn't A Thing every year going forward.

And if all they're going to do is slap the Patriots on the wrist, and hope this goes away, they really should look at getting rid of the rule since each team has its own set of footballs on offense. If a slap on the wrist is the only thing that comes from this, that will encourage more teams to break that rule, not fewer.

[larrymcg421]

The "they cheated, but it didn't help" is continually one of the worst ways people use to defend someone accused of cheating. This same argument was used during the Spygate fiasco and of course is still used to defend steroid users.

If anything, this argument makes the Patriots look worse. They risked whatever punishment they're about to get for something they didn't need. If you cheat for whatever reason, you're a cheater. If you cheat when you didn't need to, then you're just a dumb cheater.

[Kodos]

Harsh! I would give Belichick the Payton punishment. Suspended for all games for a year, starting with the Super Bowl. No contact with the team in that time. Loss of their 1st rounder in the upcoming draft.

[Subby]

I think they should lose a second rounder and the NFL should improve their ball management procedures. And any columnist with more than one gg in his first name should be set on fire depending on how hot his take is.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

God, I hate Firefox on a laptop. Try to backspace over a typo and it goes O HAI YOU WANT TO GO BACK A PAGE AND LOSE EVERYTHING YOU JUST POSTED RIGHT.

So reposted as best as I can manage:

1) it's not a "nothing" crime. If it is, why do it?
2) if "everybody does it," why hasn't there previously been a movement to get rid of the rule? If each offense controls their own set of game balls, if this really is a harmless thing with absolutely no advantage, why hasn't the league said 'go nuts; inflate to whatever PSI your quarterback wants'? Seems like the owners would get behind that if their coaches asked for it...unless there's a feeling that there's an advantage to manipulating the balls and you have a Prisoner's Dilemma going on, where nobody wants anybody else to get the same advantage they think they're getting.
3) Perception matters, and in a season that's already been filled with embarrassments to the "Shield," this is worse. This is happening during the run-up to the league's marquee showcase, and no matter how this game comes out, there will be loud noises from one group or another. If the Patriots win, there will be investigative journalists digging to see if they can uncover whether the Patriots might have cheated in other ways in the Super Bowl and how. If the Patriots lose, there will be a contingent that claims that it's proof that the Ravens and Colts were cheated, that the Patriots only got there through skullduggery. Fair or unfair, the focus is going to be on the Patriots and their reputation and not on the crowning of a champion.

So the NFL is going to be a little sensitive to this when it comes to meting out punishment, if they decide punishment is merited. Even so, I don't think Goodell will go as far as I would.

See, me, I'd say "if you're breaking the rules in one place, it's unlikely that's the one and only place you've chosen to scuff the line in the sand." I'd also say that the league needs to come down on the issue with both feet. Yes, the best players and coaches will always be looking for any edge they can get, but I would be looking to send the message that it just isn't worth it to break the rules to get that edge. Give 'em what I call the "death penalty."

Confiscate all draft picks for the next four years. In year five, confiscate the 1st-3rd rounders. Year six, 1st and 2nd rounders. Year 7, the first rounder.

Limit roster replenishment to free agents, undrafted free agents, and player-for-player trades. What's the penalty for going over the salary cap? Loss of draft picks?

If that's all, restrict the team's ability to renegotiate existing contracts during that period, also. Don't hit them with the loss of additional choices if they go over the cap during that seven year window, but don't let them sign veteran players in any season in which they'd be over the cap, either. UDFAs for the rookie minimum if the roster needs filling out. That way you limit the efficacy of using free agency as a way to escape the damage done by not having any draft picks at all for four years, and of losing 18 of 21 picks which might be reasonably expected to yield starters over a seven year period.

Harsh? Maybe. Would a perennial loser who has a magical season risk it anyway for a once-in-a-generation shot at a Lombardi Trophy? Maybe. But the teams who do the bulk of the water-carrying when it comes to prestige wouldn't risk undermining all that for the sake of one season. Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Cowboys, etc. Well, maybe not that last team, but you get what I'm saying.

The league has a perception problem, and it's going to overshadow the outcome of the Super Bowl no matter what happens. The punishment I proposed may be outsized relative to the advantage gained by tampering with the balls, but I feel like the NFL has to come down on this with both feet if they want to make sure this Isn't A Thing every year going forward.

And if all they're going to do is slap the Patriots on the wrist, and hope this goes away, they really should look at getting rid of the rule since each team has its own set of footballs on offense. If a slap on the wrist is the only thing that comes from this, that will encourage more teams to break that rule, not fewer.

We should also execute pot dealers because they won't fucking listen!

[Logan]

I can't believe Sack posted all that twice!

[Blackadar]

It's interesting to compare some of the pro-NE folks with their statements about other "cheating" scandals like baseball and steroids. They seem, shall we say, incongruent.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by molson

The best potential punishment I've heard for Bellichick is to make him coach the pro bowl.

Edit: And then they could pro wrestling angle it - he has to win at the pro bowl to be allowed to coach in the super bowl. So he has to figure out a way to make all the AFC players that probably hate him win for him. I'd watch.

I got one better make Belicheck and the Patriots have to be on Hardknocks for two seasons. That would make Belicheck furious😜

[stevew]

With all the hot takes out there, it's no wonder we got global warming going on.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The NFLs mistake is assuming all 32 teams have integrity.

Come on, you are better than that.

I mean holding, pass interference, illegal formation, facemasking these are all deliberate actions that are clearly cheating. Since all 32 teams have such high integrity lets just get rid of officials and implement the "my bad" policy. It will work great.