Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Anyone still watching this? The two episodes wrapped around the Christmas break feel like they've moved the plot along quite a bit.

Still not finding myself caring about the characters enough to be really committed, but I do feel like the show is starting to hit its stride in terms of showing a Season 1 arc.

We're a couple of episodes behind on the DVR so that's good to hear. Agreed that the biggest problem is that I'm just not at all invested in the characters with the only exception being Coulson and that's not from the show but from the movies. I would say "fix that and you'd make the show a lot better" but that's like saying "I like the car except for everything inside it so just change that".

Secondly, and I've seen a little about this but is it such that they can't really tie into any Marvel universe stuff except overly broad stuff tied into the movies? I remember we had a minor villain a few episodes back and the temptation would be to have some sort of "character per week" where they have a new character introduced with each new case each week but that's how you can build up a good stable of secondary character and bring back the ones that work.

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by chadritt

My understanding is that the big tie in comes with Captain America 2 and that they're sort of stuck in plot limbo until they can really work with that.

Edit: though if the rumors true there have been subtle things, just nothing they can make obvious and some that actually look like really bad writing.

Who's stupid idea of planning was that then?

[chadritt]

No clue. The whole "tie it into the film universe" just seems like a massive pain in the ass to get to work. Trying to keep the show accessible for people who haven't seen the films, particularly the ones coming out as the show airs, must be a nightmare. Add in typical network notes/involvement and i can't even imagine the difficulty. Its probably why I can't think of anyone actually trying this before.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by chadritt

No clue. The whole "tie it into the film universe" just seems like a massive pain in the ass to get to work. Trying to keep the show accessible for people who haven't seen the films, particularly the ones coming out as the show airs, must be a nightmare. Add in typical network notes/involvement and i can't even imagine the difficulty. Its probably why I can't think of anyone actually trying this before.

I don't think the show has to really use all that much, if anything, from the movies. There are hundreds of characters in the Marvel Universe that could be brought it or used in some fashion.

While I have never seen the show, my impression is that "Arrow" - The Green Arrow show on CW - does a really good job of incorporating various characters from the D.C. universe.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

While I have never seen the show, my impression is that "Arrow" - The Green Arrow show on CW - does a really good job of incorporating various characters from the D.C. universe.

I only watched the first season of Arrow, as I found it a bit cheesy. But yeah, a number of cameo appearances by mostly minor DC characters, which is exactly what S.H.I.E.L.D. should have been doing since episode 1.

Flash is set to make an Arrow appearances (or may already have, I'm behind the news) as well, as a lead in to his own series. Marvel movies may be well ahead of DC as far as establishing a universe there, but DC seem to be on the right path as far as TV goes.

[chadritt]

Marvel is about to have a whole new netflix universe. That looks interesting to me.

[PackerFanatic]

I've been enjoying it. I also am enjoying Arrow more than I thought - I was ready to give up on it but stuck with it and it's pretty good.

[revrew]

Watched Season 1 of "Arrow" on Netflix and loved it. Yes, it is a bit "cheesy," largely because the lead actor is cheesy. He's too likeable to be as dark as they want to portray him, but not charismatic enough to be the playboy they want to portray him as. He seems like a gymnast first, actor second. Plus that horrible, Donald Trump wig they put on him in the flashbacks is horribly distracting. I keep expecting the thing to rise up off his head and say to him, "Dude? Is that the best you can do? I'm going back to my home planet."

But if you can get past the failures of the lead actor, the show is good, cheesy fun.

[Groundhog]

I watched episodes 12-15 of season 1 of Arrow on the weekend. Have to say, I liked it a whole heap more than I did the first half of season 1. I don't know if the acting has improved or that it was just the sister/mum conflict storylines that didn't do much for me earlier.

[Matthean]

I have to be right around there as well. I binged on it when I got sick. I so far enjoy it.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I've been enjoying it. I also am enjoying Arrow more than I thought - I was ready to give up on it but stuck with it and it's pretty good.

I like Arrow more than I like Agents of SHIELD by a wide margin.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I watched episodes 12-15 of season 1 of Arrow on the weekend. Have to say, I liked it a whole heap more than I did the first half of season 1. I don't know if the acting has improved or that it was just the sister/mum conflict storylines that didn't do much for me earlier.

Pretty much anything involving Thea or Laurel strays into typical CW-show territory, but outside of that it's pretty good. It helps that all of the "sidekicks" are decent actors (Diggle, the Cop, Slade, Felicity), but they also do a much better job than Agents of connecting to the universe, whether it's throwaway lines/sight gags only comic book readers will get or using 2nd/3rd tier villains as antagonists.

[Groundhog]

It's the whole 2nd/3rd tier villains/characters thing that I love. I think everyone took it for granted that S.H.I.E.L.D. would do the same. Mind boggling.

[chadritt]

They've started to. They've got a couple already and theyre adding at least one more with Deathlok. It was weird that it didn't happen more at the beginning, they seemed WAY too focused on mysteries nobody really cared about, but I've been more of a fan as the show has gone on.

[TRO]

Whedon is about characters first. They've slowly established them over the course of the season. I think it has been paced well for the long term.

[Thomkal]

SPOILERS IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THIS WEEK'S EPISODE YET




Well how are we feeling now after the events from last night's episode? The only thing I didn't like was after they found the real traitor, they didn't immediately become suspicious of those who he had long term contact with-mainly Agents Ward and the black Agent working with Simmons in the lab whose name I can't remember this second. I mean their boss had killed off three other agents who had become suspicious of him-yet both of them are still alive. Is there one more betrayal to come?

I know there's been some complaints about the actor playing Agent Ward, but wow that was some good work on his part. So the question is: Has he been brainwashed into working for Hydra or one of its leaders from the start?

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

SPOILERS IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THIS WEEK'S EPISODE YET




So the question is: Has he been brainwashed into working for Hydra or one of its leaders from the start?

Or some crazy rouse so he can get back to the higher ups at Hydra, namely the black lady and whoever the clairvoyant actually is.

[cschex]

I'm betting on ruse to infiltrate HYDRA. Either way, last night's episode was fantastic

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by nilodor

Or some crazy rouse so he can get back to the higher ups at Hydra, namely the black lady and whoever the clairvoyant actually is.

Or that too. Wasn't quite sure what that grin he gave at the end was supposed to indicate.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by cschex

I'm betting on ruse to infiltrate HYDRA. Either way, last night's episode was fantastic

I think the episode needed a few more twists and turns.

What are the odds that Ward didn't actually kill the woman & other agents in this plot to infiltrate HYDRA?

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

What are the odds that Ward didn't actually kill the woman & other agents in this plot to infiltrate HYDRA?

90%, even though they showed blood I feel like it was some new type of icer or squibs.

I normally watch SHIELD comfortably while cooking, this episode was just nuts, I had to only cook during the commercials because it was just a rollercoaster. I can't think of many other shows that run along at a 3 or 4 on the action scale then after 20 episodes of that dial up a 9.

[nilodor]

Dola: It would be like batting against a knuckleballer when they finally chuck the 86 mph gas at you.

[ColtCrazy]

Show has definitely gotten better recently and last night's episode was quite good. Not sure about Ward either. They have to explain the 3 people he shot otherwise he can't just be doing this to get into Hydra by sacrificing 3 people. The brainwashed thing is possible.

Happy to see more tie-ins to the movies as well, although I was disappointed to read the Coulson is most likely not going to be in Avengers2.

[General Mike]

Based on past Whedon series' it wouldn't shock me if Coulson died again before Avengers 2 comes out.

The last 3 episodes have really picked up the pace on the series, and it seems like they might have had to hold back on what they wanted to do based on the fact that so much stuff was tied into Captain America: TWS

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

SPOILERS IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THIS WEEK'S EPISODE YET




Well how are we feeling now after the events from last night's episode? The only thing I didn't like was after they found the real traitor, they didn't immediately become suspicious of those who he had long term contact with-mainly Agents Ward and the black Agent working with Simmons in the lab whose name I can't remember this second. I mean their boss had killed off three other agents who had become suspicious of him-yet both of them are still alive. Is there one more betrayal to come?

I know there's been some complaints about the actor playing Agent Ward, but wow that was some good work on his part. So the question is: Has he been brainwashed into working for Hydra or one of its leaders from the start?

If they want to swing a Ward for Trip trade on the team, I'd be ok with it. The actor playing Trip is more charismatic but it does kindof bust up the whole Ward-Skye thing they've been angling for since the beginning.

In the last few episodes, I've really liked Bill P. My wife and I were noting how even though he's thought of as a mediocre movie actor, you can see the difference between tv and movies clearly. He was chewing scenery in a way that no one else on that show, even Clark Gregg, is capable of and it wasn't even close.

The funny thing about the recent ep is that I still think the writers for the show are fairly mediocre and play it safe. So while my mind was nagging me ever since Ward killed the fake Clairvoyant that he has to be the traitor. I was like "nah, this writing staff wouldn't be able to do a multiple double cross situation" and "I thought it was just bad acting that Ward couldn't pull of the whole I-killed-the-bad-guy-to-save you" that wouldn't make sense. Sadly, it's damning with faint praise: I was surprised because I didn't think they could pull off something competent so when they did, I didn't expect it.

SI

[sterlingice]

Did anyone see the Captain America movie? The second set of Avengers movies I've been redboxing because, well, frankly, they're kindof "meh". Without spoiling too much, is there a reason I should go check out the movie in the near future before watching any more Shield? We saved up a few episodes leading up to Thor and then watched the movie, realizing there really wasn't much tie in between the movies and the show as they were pretty careful to not lose the audience in either that just watched one or the other.

SI

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Oh, and I would bet anybody here my entire annual paycheck that Fury is not dead.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Did anyone see the Captain America movie? The second set of Avengers movies I've been redboxing because, well, frankly, they're kindof "meh". Without spoiling too much, is there a reason I should go check out the movie in the near future before watching any more Shield? We saved up a few episodes leading up to Thor and then watched the movie, realizing there really wasn't much tie in between the movies and the show as they were pretty careful to not lose the audience in either that just watched one or the other.

SI

Yes, the new Captain America is pretty good and this past Shield episode definitely ties in. In terms of the timeline, the Shield episode happens towards the end of the movie…although the movie gives some details away you wouldn't know if you only watch the show.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Oh, and I would bet anybody here my entire annual paycheck that Fury is not dead.

In a show where we can bring people back from the dead? Based on comics? No way!

SI

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Oh, and I would bet anybody here my entire annual paycheck that Fury is not dead.

See the film, they make it as clear as a comic book movie can...

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by chadritt

See the film, they make it as clear as a comic book movie can...

The thing is, my entire annual paycheck isn't exactly going to anything but make someone say "ouch."

[cuervo72]

Finally caught up to be able to see the past few eps semi-live.

The writers have done a pretty decent fake-out job, I think. I went from wondering if Blake was the Clairvoyant (I think Deathlok could have easily finished the job, wondered why he didn't) to briefly wondering about Hand, to thinking "ohhhhhh, Hand is directing the drones to kill Garrett because she thinks he's gone bad...and there he is, above everyone hovering around in his own plane...yep, it's him."

Then there was the whole situation room scene with Hand that made me wonder again, but when Paxton started his scene-chewing, it was pretty apparent.

Dunno what to make of Ward. It seems...odd that Hand would give him the opportunity to shoot Garrett after she flipped her shit over him shooting the fake (at least, I think she had). At the same time, I have a hard time believing that she would include him on a ruse to have him infiltrate HYDRA. Also had a hard time with Triplett not being under suspicion given how close he was with Garrett.

edit: ok, seems the showrunners have admitted that Ward was a Hydra sleeper all along.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

Yes, the new Captain America is pretty good and this past Shield episode definitely ties in. In terms of the timeline, the Shield episode happens towards the end of the movie…although the movie gives some details away you wouldn't know if you only watch the show.

The previous episode takes place right before the start of the movie. Do you definitely have to see it before watching the episodes? No, but stuff from the movie will get spoilered big time by the episode. This isn't like that November Thor tie-in they did.

[General Mike]

Dola, I thought Hand was the big baddie the whole time, since she is bad in the comics. I guess they have some freedom to do things like that since Deathlok is good in the comics.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Finally caught up to be able to see the past few eps semi-live.

The writers have done a pretty decent fake-out job, I think. I went from wondering if Blake was the Clairvoyant (I think Deathlok could have easily finished the job, wondered why he didn't) to briefly wondering about Hand, to thinking "ohhhhhh, Hand is directing the drones to kill Garrett because she thinks he's gone bad...and there he is, above everyone hovering around in his own plane...yep, it's him."

Then there was the whole situation room scene with Hand that made me wonder again, but when Paxton started his scene-chewing, it was pretty apparent.

Dunno what to make of Ward. It seems...odd that Hand would give him the opportunity to shoot Garrett after she flipped her shit over him shooting the fake (at least, I think she had). At the same time, I have a hard time believing that she would include him on a ruse to have him infiltrate HYDRA. Also had a hard time with Triplett not being under suspicion given how close he was with Garrett.

edit: ok, seems the showrunners have admitted that Ward was a Hydra sleeper all along.

link?

[cuervo72]

Ah, I think it's on the Marvel site - popped up in the news items while googling. Interview with Loeb and...somebody on how they told Ward (forget the actor's name) that he was going to turn and how they had this planned all along.

Hrmm, one at EW too: 'Agents of SHIELD' creators dissect that game-changing twist | Inside TV | EW.com (actually having trouble re-locating the Marvel.com one)

Of course...that could all be another misdirection - there are what, six eps left in the season - but who knows.

[General Mike]

cuervo, I think it's this one that you mean:

EXCLUSIVE: Brett Dalton on Agent Ward's New Role in Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[cuervo72]

Yep, that's the one - thanks General.

[Draft Dodger]

am I the only one who noticed a significant number of similarities to the first Star Wars movie?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

am I the only one who noticed a significant number of similarities to the first Star Wars movie?

???

[cuervo72]

So, Ward and Skye are brother and sister then? Coulson, Obi Wan? Is Mace Windu Yoda?

(I could actually kinda see Fitz and Simmons as R2 and 3PO...)

[DanGarion]

Loved the finale.

Phil Coulson heart, and conscience of the Avengers.

Just thought it was a great episode all around and got a lot of laughs throughout the action and drama. Can't wait to see what they do with Fitz...

Oh and Director Coulson.

[DanGarion]

Oh yeah and a number of callbacks to different things... Such as...

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Loved the finale.

Phil Coulson heart, and conscience of the Avengers.

Just thought it was a great episode all around and got a lot of laughs throughout the action and drama. Can't wait to see what they do with Fitz...

Oh and Director Coulson.

I liked the finale a lot too. I thought the show struggled early, but began picking up steam with the Thor DVD tie-in (Lorelei episode) and then the Captain America tie-in. They did a good job with setting up next season with the final 2 scenes, even tho I have no clue what they mean.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

???

like I'm going to remember now.

[kcchief19]

Yeah, I thought the only thing the show had going for it early on was Clark Gregg's charisma. But the uprising storyline really picked things up. Bill Paxton was phenomenal, and the way the story eventually unfolded was terrific. If the first six episodes had been as good as the last six, this show would be soaring. Hopefully viewers catch on and the writing stays strong.

Was really distraught when Eric was killed. Can't wait to hear what Billy's story is.

Haven't heard or read if there will be any cast changes for next season. BJ Britt was a nice addition midseason, hope he stick around. Probably hoping too much that Cobie Smulders joins the cast full time now that she has some free time.

The lead in to the next Avengers movie could be epic if done right. The tie-is with Thor and Captain America were very effective.

[DanGarion]

Eric and Billy?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Eric and Billy?

Patton Oswalt. The lanyard guys at the secret bases. They're either twins, androids or something like that.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Patton Oswalt. The lanyard guys at the secret bases. They're either twins, androids or something like that.

My guess is LMDs or Clones.

[sterlingice]

I agree with the rest, the Hydra storyline was interesting. However, I feel like they are still playing it way too safe. In the end, there wasn't really Hydra, just Bill Paxton (who was great) trying to get immortality. Sure Flowers is still out there and now we're going to start playing with Skye's backstory (it's just not interesting to me) but we've cleared the board of all the major players except for Graviton (who I'm sure will be back, possibly as a season-wide super villain at some point), Mike Peterson (who may guest star from time to time as a vigilante hero), and Coulson's team.

That said, the Marvel universe is rich with stuff to tap into, it just seems that they've either been really leery to do much with it or just aren't allowed. In the entire Marvel universe, all we've seen so far are Deathlok, Graviton, movie tie-ins (Nick Fury, girl from Thor), and a big blue alien corpse.

Also, I think the "shock" of bringing Coulson back to life mostly fell flat as the only vaguely shocking part of it was, well, big blue. I think the writers thought they had something more there and really played it up much more than it merited. I worry a bit because they don't seem to be able to write characters all that well or connect with the audience (the show rarely has heart outside of Gregg)- it's basically a bunch of action movie writers which is fine for 2 hours but you need something more for multiple seasons (unless you write for 24).

I guess it could be interesting how they rebuild SHIELD. They could spend the entire next season recruiting for SHIELD and start expanding the universe again and that would be good. I love that Clark Gregg has always been "hero bureaucrat" - it's a bit of a throwback and a real breath of fresh air to have a purely good hero. There's no conflict, no true moral dilemmas- he's always going to do the right thing. And if the writers ever decide to put him in a situation where there is no good out or he willfully chooses evil, then it will just be gross negligence on the part of the writing staff because it's too easy and too cliche to take advantage of a high fall from grace for cheap short term thrills at the expense of a rare long term character.

All in all, it survives another season on the DVR for us. It's hard to not draw the Heroes comparisons. Heroes started really strong out of the gates with good plots (save the cheerleader, Hero being awesome, Sylar as a great villain) and great characters. Think how many careers were launched from that show: Zachary Quinto and Hayden Panettiere were made on that show; Jack Coleman, Masi Oka, Greg Grunberg, and Adrian Pasdar all make the rounds as guest stars and recurring actors on shows now because of what they did in Heroes. It started much stronger and even with SHIELD greatly improving, Heroes was still in a better place at the end of season 1. But between Tim Kring's inability to balance a superhero show and the writer's strike, it died pretty quick. Hopefully SHIELD continues on the upward trajectory as I'm still cautiously optimistic.

SI