Pro Strategy Football 2013 for iphone/ipad released! Post impressions.

[aran]

Kerry, if you write an API for your game and manage to port it over to PC, I'd be interested in taking a stab at writing a career layer.

Basically, if you provide a coaching layer and expose player/team information and game results, others can use your engine as a service that we can wrap with our own meta-layers! We can all work together to make an awesome combination of games that build on top of your engine which apparently is already great.

If you've got an API, we can also program more ad hoc leagues aside from career mode, tournament systems, and other non-career-mode persistent options without you having to do a lot of extra work and research.

The business arrangements may be a little weird to figure out, but this could end in something amazing.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, very busy until around January 7-8, lots of family, so I'll be off a lot, but will check when I can. BTW, went to see Les Miserables with family - great movie!

digamma, I'll double-check the penalties. I believe the penalty on returns is from the point where the return man caught the ball? If I'm wrong on that, let me know. So in that case, it's possible that the man caught it around the 2-4 yard line. But I'll definitely double-check. Thanks!

Ok, regarding how "bad" some teams are, I wonder if I maybe made some *too* bad (giving their men ratings like 3-4). Running computer simulations of entire seasons, the results come out very realistically, but when coaching a bad team as a person against another person, it can be frustrating. Hmmm, maybe come up with some way of helping out when coaching against another player, but not against the computer?

I saw some questions about man and zone coverage. Basically, man coverage is what you want if your opponent is throwing short passes. Two-deep is tough on wide receivers for the Medium Passes that are the shorter options (for example, Square Out), but a little weaker, comparatively speaking against the "deeper" Medium Passes (e.g. Sideline). Two-deep can be beaten by a fast tight end running a Cross patter (medium pass). Two-deep is weak against short passes.

Three-deep is the best against long passes, horrible against short passes, and not as good against medium passes as the two-deep.

If you have excellent DBs and LBs, then Man coverage can be great against all passes, and allows you to blitz and double-team (unless your Free Safety has an assignment or is blitzing). Of course, if the defender gets beat, it can be a huge gain.

Zones are somewhat better against runs, but then so is Man with an appropriate blitz.

[Pro Strategy Football]

A few quick tips, and you may already know these. A blitz can mess up the offense's timing, even on a screen or draw, but if the offense completes a screen and reacts well, it can tear a blitz up. So can a draw. Just don't be surprised if you see occasional large gains against blitzes, but also the occasional loss, even with a screen or draw.

I frequently watch what my opponent is doing (and of course, I scout my men and his). If he keeps blitzing his ROLB, I'll throw a short slant pass to my split end on the left (or motion my flanker to the left and throw the same pattern to him). The LB is gone from that spot, increasing my chance of completing it, and of possibly getting a large gain!

Same with someone who keeps blitzing inside. The little circle route or delay to a back can be great in that case.

If you have a man over center and keep defending the pass, I'll call Traps. If you don't have a man over center, I'll call draws.

On defense, I'm frequently in Man coverage, and probably blitz at least one LB on half my plays (mixing up who I'm blitzing). But I'll also drop to two-deep. I rarely call three-deep.

I had to explain to one person that the game uses percentages, and just like in real life, you can have a bad, unlucky day (look at the Vikings in the 60s-80s, with what, five Super Bowls, and all their worst game of the year each time!).

OTOH, if you see glaring logic mistakes, let me know! It's hard to simulate real life, and I'm open to improvements!

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, aran, that's a great idea! Right now, the idea of incorporating career mode is pretty daunting, but I'm willing to tackle it. OTOH, any way we can simplify it would be very welcome. I can create an editor, for example.

And I'll definitely want to keep the current "pro" mode, too, for people who don't want to be confined to a single team or do the career mode.

Hey, one guy had an interesting idea regarding career mode. Each week during the season, have two states - Practice and Game Day. In the Practice week, you can allocate points evenly among all aspects, or you might want to focus on reducing penalties or turnovers, or really work on a particular formation or play, so you'd take points out of one area and put them there. Interesting notion.

I haven't had a chance to read over everything posted in the last few days, although I try. Once life's back to normal, I'll be taking all suggestions, bug questions, etc, and consolidating them. Then I'll work on a priority list for next year.

Meanwhile, anything you guys can do to help spread the word would be really helpful. Hey, if you guys are good at creating videos, you could do that and post them on youtube or on the app's FB page!

Anyway, thanks again, good luck, and it's fun reading about your games!

[Pro Strategy Football]

Hey, Aran, along those lines, I was thinking of a better way to do turn-based multiplayer that wouldn't require Game Center. I don't know if you guys have run into this, but sometimes GC messes up, even goes off line.

What if I used a public database? Either one I host, or something you guys can create ad hoc. Numerous advantages, if I designed the schema correctly:

(1) not dependent on Game Center. This means it's not platform-dependent either, so you could have an Android user playing against an iOS user.
(2) you could make any match public, meaning others could read it but not update it. Would be fun for league play, I'd think.
(3) easy to store a chat history for each match.

Disadvantages:
(1) if it's public, it can be hacked. It's a shame, but it's true.
(2) no push notifications. However, if you're in the app, I can poll the database every so often to see if you have any other matches where it's now your turn.

Now, another application could be written to poll it and push out notifications, but that would be a future addition, I'd think.

Now, going to the next level and adding league definitions, where there's a season and binding of players to specific teams, and editing the teams ... that's a bit more work, but possible (talking about on the shared database).

Thoughts?

[RainRaven]

I would let those smarter then myself chime in the exact specifics of how to achieve an in game league and such but I am glad to see it being discussed. Thanks for your constant answers and I will be posting I hope tonight on quarter to three boards and seeing if I can get some more interest going overall for the game.

Also, do people have a preference on where to start up talk of a January league? In here or start a new thread for just that?

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Pro Strategy Football

digamma, I'll double-check the penalties. I believe the penalty on returns is from the point where the return man caught the ball? If I'm wrong on that, let me know. So in that case, it's possible that the man caught it around the 2-4 yard line. But I'll definitely double-check. Thanks!

Thanks. Yes, the penalty should be enforced from the spot of the foul. I'm not sure how difficult that is to code on a live action play. So, if a return is to the 25, but there was holding at the 22, then you would have a ten yard penalty back to the 12.

[RainRaven]

I have liked some of your playcalls during our game so far digamma, just some bad timing on turnovers has cost you so far. I look forward to the final quarter.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Thanks, digamma! I have the "half the distance to the goal" working on other plays, but missed that. D'oh! I'd say most penalties (blocking in the back, holding) probably happen fairly close to the start of the runback, so I'll use a random number to determine the spot, with most being within 10 yards of the start point, and the rest anywhere between the start point and the end (unless it's a touchdown, would handle that a little differently).

Good catch!

Hey, remember, everyone, use Scouting to find the best/worst men on each team. Have fun!

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Pro Strategy Football

Thanks, digamma! I have the "half the distance to the goal" working on other plays, but missed that. D'oh! I'd say most penalties (blocking in the back, holding) probably happen fairly close to the start of the runback, so I'll use a random number to determine the spot, with most being within 10 yards of the start point, and the rest anywhere between the start point and the end (unless it's a touchdown, would handle that a little differently).

Good catch!

Hey, remember, everyone, use Scouting to find the best/worst men on each team. Have fun!

I don't know if you fully realize it yet but you have stumbled upon probably the best collection of football simmers there is on teh internets. Good luck in whatever direction your game takes.

[aran]

Originally Posted by Pro Strategy Football

Hey, Aran, along those lines, I was thinking of a better way to do turn-based multiplayer that wouldn't require Game Center. I don't know if you guys have run into this, but sometimes GC messes up, even goes off line.

What if I used a public database? Either one I host, or something you guys can create ad hoc. Numerous advantages, if I designed the schema correctly:

(1) not dependent on Game Center. This means it's not platform-dependent either, so you could have an Android user playing against an iOS user.
(2) you could make any match public, meaning others could read it but not update it. Would be fun for league play, I'd think.
(3) easy to store a chat history for each match.

Disadvantages:
(1) if it's public, it can be hacked. It's a shame, but it's true.
(2) no push notifications. However, if you're in the app, I can poll the database every so often to see if you have any other matches where it's now your turn.

Now, another application could be written to poll it and push out notifications, but that would be a future addition, I'd think.

Now, going to the next level and adding league definitions, where there's a season and binding of players to specific teams, and editing the teams ... that's a bit more work, but possible (talking about on the shared database).

Thoughts?

Well, you wouldn't directly allow access to such a database. You'd have a web service running on a server somewhere that would act as a gatekeeper. There'd actually probably be a couple of services: one for the game only to interact with that would have a bit of security, and one that allows a bunch of read-only functions to the public and has no capacity to do damage to the database, hence no chance of being compromised.

I have some experience writing web services and would be willing to advise if not donate some of my time to this project.

I've PM'd you some contact information. Maybe we can talk about it in more depth soon off the forum and flesh out the technical side of things more.

EDIT: I'm a professional software developer with a bit of experience with enormous databases and service architecture, so I'm actually qualified to work on this kind of thing.

[Julio Riddols]

This thread is getting me hyped. I dream of a day when we can play in PFS leagues online, complete with career mode. Direct coach against coach and a competent sim engine along with animation? Man.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

+1

The sim engine is top notch and it has been tremendous fun playing against other people even though I am coming to grips I may be more of a Norv Turner type head coach than a Bill Belicheck

[Pro Strategy Football]

LWSFS, me, too! I usually throw short and a mix of various runs against most of these defenses, and work my way downfield. I do love it when the occasional flea flicker or HB pass works, once the defense is up tight and focusing on Run.

[Pro Strategy Football]

arun, cool! I'll PM you soon, heading to lunch now.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

I don't know if this was obvious to anyone else or not, but I just discovered that you can change the routes for your secondary receivers to help free up your primary receiver. I have been able to move the ball much better since making this discovery.

[Blackadar]

Just bought this...see what happens at FOFC? Only the 3rd app I've ever purchased.

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

I don't know if this was obvious to anyone else or not, but I just discovered that you can change the routes for your secondary receivers to help free up your primary receiver. I have been able to move the ball much better since making this discovery.

How?

[Pro Strategy Football]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Just bought this...see what happens at FOFC? Only the 3rd app I've ever purchased.

Cool! I hope you enjoy it!

BTW, I do notice an uptick in reviews in iTunes, and I assume a lot of those are you guys, so thanks!

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Just bought this...see what happens at FOFC? Only the 3rd app I've ever purchased.



How?

Select the receiver as your primary receiver, change their route, then select another receiver, etc.

[Pro Strategy Football]

BTW, I've thought that maybe I can add a "routes" screen where you could more easily create route packages, not sure.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by Pro Strategy Football

BTW, I've thought that maybe I can add a "routes" screen where you could more easily create route packages, not sure.

It would be awesome if a few plays could be sort of pre-loaded as a game plan of sorts, maybe allowing for 10 offensive and 5 defensive "hot plays" that users can set up for quick use during games. I could see having a nice 10 play book of plays that I frequently use one click away being very helpful.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Segrat,

You should be killing me. I really lucked out on the fumble and blocked kick.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Another blocked punt!!!

This one returned for a touchdown.

Better get your boys to practice more special teams next week

In all seriousness, I know you should be up, but hey we got a tie game and hopefully an exciting finish.

[Pro Strategy Football]

wow, more than one blocked punt in a single game? I've gone many games without even one! I did return an INT for a TD yesterday, though, in a very close match I have going.

Good luck to both of you!

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Segrat marches it down about 80 yards with 2:30 left to take a 28-21 lead. I proceed to return the kick for a td. I'm like the AI in madden when it just decides to not let you win. So for those keeping track that's a fumble recovery inside the ten that leads to a td. A blocked punt and another blocked punt returned for a td. With all of that its still a tied game. I must be the worlds worst coach. I can't wait until segrat chimes in about this game.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Dang, man! What teams are you guys coaching?

BTW, just a note about overtime. If this is a regular season game, it's sudden death right from the start, but if it's a playoff game, the new rules apply. In this case,
(a) if the opening drive is a TD, game's over, they win;
(b) if the opening drive is a change of possession, we're now in sudden death;
(c) if the opening drive is a FG, the other teams gets *one* drive to either tie or win. If they kick a FG, game's tied, and we're now in sudden death. If they score a TD, they win.

Good luck, guys, sounds like a great game!

[SegRat]

Just crazy

[SegRat]

Green Bay and San Diego.

[SegRat]

And now I just got a INT.

This game is crazy.

[RedKingGold]

This thread just led me to purchase, looking forward to providing some feedback.

[SegRat]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

This thread just led me to purchase, looking forward to providing some feedback.

This is a great game.

[SegRat]

Throw the ball.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Brett favre would never have let himself get sacked like that. All of a sudden my team is playing defense. Only five minutes left in ot. Can I actually sustain a drive? Probably not

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

This is also why we need a chat feature in the game so we don't spam the thread with play by play as scintillating as it may be

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Also you have to be a bit nervous every time you punt the ball.

[BrianD]

I actually enjoy the play-by-play comments during a game.

[SegRat]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

Also you have to be a bit nervous every time you punt the ball.

Yes, yes I am.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

So with ten seconds left in ot segrat completes a thirty yard pass to set up a fifty yard field goal. And at that moment he decides to step away from the computer! Now I am just waiting to see if it goes through or not...

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

And segrat is the winner. Can't feel too bad, he definitely deserved to win the game.

Trying to anticipate the move of your opponent is a lot of fun. It feels like a real chess match.

Can't wait for the rematch segrat, great game

[SegRat]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

So with ten seconds left in ot segrat completes a thirty yard pass to set up a fifty yard field goal. And at that moment he decides to step away from the computer! Now I am just waiting to see if it goes through or not...

Hahaha

My dad called.

What a game, kick a 50 yard field go as time expires in OT.

[Pro Strategy Football]

Remember to tap on the "Big Plays" button. You can watch replays of every blocked punt, int, td, etc. :-)

[RainRaven]

Winding down a game with LWSFS, trying to make a last ditch comeback effort after an awful three Int game by my qb. I don't know who is open to new games this New Year's Eve but I would like to get one or two more going.

[SegRat]

Im looking to put my 2-0 record up against someone starting tonight if anyone is interested.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by SegRat

This is a great game.

It really is awesome. Nothing really needs to change, but if I were to suggest something...

...maybe a little more feedback on why a particular play did what it did. "The WR really exploited the seam in the zone defense," "the CB broke up the pass," "the RB tripped over the 15 yard line," or "the WR tried to run before he caught the ball" would be a nice addition to the Play by Play after each play. It'd be nice to be able to be angry at a specific little pixelated player rather than all of them at once

[Bradley]

I'll add my voice for an Android version. I've been waiting for an android app like this for years. I'm probably not a multiplayer guy, but the ability to bang out a game against the computer would be simply awesome.

I will purchase the minute I find out it is available.

[Vince, Pt. II]

2nd quarter, your team is winning 7-0, 3rd and 18 from their 49 yard line. *Complete screen pass for 14 yards, setting up 4th and 4 from their 35 yard line. *Defense flagged for offsides. *Your choices are 4th and 4 from the 35 (52 yard field goal) or 3rd and 13 from the 44. *Do you accept the penalty?

You are New England playing against Houston. Solid first drive, haven't been able to move the ball for shit since then.

[Comey]

I'd take the yardage and the FG attempt. No guarantee you can get within range if you take the penalty.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

The game provides a percentage to let you know how likely it is for the kicker to successfuly make the kick. The kickers aren't particularly accurate from 50 yards out which is why I am guessing Vince is hesitant to attempt the kick. If it is only a 40 percent chance of making it, then it might be better to take the third and thirteen and try for the first down.

[WVUFAN]

After an hour or so trying out the 2011 version, I'm gonna move up to the big leagues today.

Never would have known about this gem of a game if not for this thread. Kerry, it's very, very cool you're on the forum taking suggestions and providing input. I'm more than happy to support developers like yourself.

[WVUFAN]

Purchased! I'm hoping to try a multiplayer game if someone wants to play a newbie. My email is [email protected]