2009 Heisman Trophy Thread - Page 3

sooner333 · 12-13-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator

I can't gather the energy to argue with you too much about this, because you make very valid points. I am biased because of his 4 years at my school watching him lead. I am not exactly coming at this totally objective.

I know exactly what you mean. I thought Bradford deserved it last year. Was I objective? Of course not. But, I saw him play at such a high level and more often than I saw anyone else (because I watched (if I didn't attend) every OU game and didn't see all the games for another team). Not to say that McCoy, Tebow, or someone else didn't deserve it (heck, McCoy was second and Tebow had more first-place votes than anyone else). But, I could make an argument that Bradford deserved it and you better be right that I believed it. You can make an argument for McCoy this year too (he wouldn't be my choice), and there's no shame in being biased.

Matthean · 12-13-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowech

Wonder if Bama fans will bitch that he cried.

Nope. First Heisman winner for a storied program in a football obsessed state. I bet a number of them were crying along with him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator

Auburn is laughing.

More like kicking themselves. If Auburn wins, I have serious doubts Ingram does.

Grammaticus · 12-13-2009, 11:04 AM

I'm not sure which player you guys are talking about. If it is Ingram, he did face quality defenses and performed well against them.

MJ4H · 12-13-2009, 11:08 AM

They are talking about McCoy.

jbergey22 · 12-13-2009, 11:14 AM

Colt had an amazing career. 45 maybe 46 wins as a starter and numerous other records he set.

He probably should have won it last year but was a victim of an odd situation.

The bright side is he will go down as one of the best players in college football history to never win the award

Hammer755 · 12-13-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator

I can't gather the energy to argue with you too much about this, because you make very valid points. I am biased because of his 4 years at my school watching him lead. I am not exactly coming at this totally objective.

Not to pile on Senator, but I can't see much of an argument at all for McCoy winning. The only teams that he played against that ended up even getting votes in any polls were OkSt, Nebraska, Tech and OU. In those 4 games, he averaged well under 200 yds/game and threw 3 TD against 6 picks.

He was also surprisingly inconsistent in his college career. He had tremendous freshman and junior seasons (63/15 TD/INT), but rather pedestrian sophomore and senior years (49/30). I understand that the Heisman is not purely about stats, but McCoy was the 18th rated passer in 1A this year.

Frankly, I really don't understand how he won the Maxwell and O'Brien awards this year - Clausen in particular had a superb season despite the Notre Dame circus. I know McCoy won a ton of games in his career, and he had some huge performances in big games, but he was surrounded by a lot of talent at Texas, and I've never seen him as the best QB, let alone the best player, in the country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He probably should have won it last year but was a victim of an odd situation.

I also would have a tough time saying McCoy should have won it last year. Bradford threw 50 TD passes! The only argument that can even remotely be made for McCoy was that he won head-to-head (even tough Bradford outplayed him by a lot in that game) and he had a phenomenal completion percentage (almost 77%!). But to say that Colt should have won is revisionist history to the max.

jbergey22 · 12-13-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer755

I also would have a tough time saying McCoy should have won it last year. Bradford threw 50 TD passes! The only argument that can even remotely be made for McCoy was that he won head-to-head (even tough Bradford outplayed him by a lot in that game) and he had a phenomenal completion percentage (almost 77%!). But to say that Colt should have won is revisionist history to the max.

So now we are giving it to the guy with the most TD passes every year?
It doesnt matter a whole lot I wouldnt go dwelling on it, it happened last year. A strong case could have been made for either.

JonInMiddleGA · 12-13-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator

Auburn is laughing.

Yeah, all the way to Tampa & that big matchup against Northwestern.

Hammer755 · 12-13-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

So now we are giving it to the guy with the most TD passes every year?
It doesnt matter a whole lot I wouldnt go dwelling on it, it happened last year. A strong case could have been made for either.

Of course, TD passes are a completely irrelevant standard for a quarterback, especially when comparing two players who played in the same division of the same conference.

sooner333 · 12-13-2009, 02:29 PM

The argument I can see for McCoy last year is that he beat the other guy's team head-to-head with less of a supporting cast. Bradford had two 1,000-yard rushers to compliment him, an incredible offensive line (at least one guy starting for a playoff contender as a rookie), and very solid wideouts. McCoy was his team's leading rusher, IIRC. He meant more to a team that had the same record. I still think Sam played better than Colt, but if you want to say "most outstanding" means "importance to team" then you'd almost have to go with Colt.

jbergey22 · 12-13-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer755

Of course, TD passes are a completely irrelevant standard for a quarterback, especially when comparing two players who played in the same division of the same conference.

I dont believe I said that.

Hammer755 · 12-13-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sooner333

The argument I can see for McCoy last year is that he beat the other guy's team head-to-head with less of a supporting cast. Bradford had two 1,000-yard rushers to compliment him, an incredible offensive line (at least one guy starting for a playoff contender as a rookie), and very solid wideouts. McCoy was his team's leading rusher, IIRC. He meant more to a team that had the same record. I still think Sam played better than Colt, but if you want to say "most outstanding" means "importance to team" then you'd almost have to go with Colt.

Regardless of the outcome of the game, Bradford clearly outplayed McCoy in that head-to-head with his running game doing nothing. Texas won that game because of McCoy's supporting cast.

I've already argued this more than I care about the debate and it appears as though I'm more down on McCoy than I really am, so I'll leave it at 'I just don't see it'.

BishopMVP · 12-14-2009, 03:20 PM

Some stats for those who think Suh only deserved recognition for one game:

Alabama's (#1 defense) top 4 defensive linemans stats:
98 tkl 23.5 tfl 9.5 sac 20 qbh 5 pbu 0 int 1 ff 3 blk

Suh's stats
82 tkl 23 tfl 12 sac 24 qbh 10 pbu 1 int 1 ff 3 blk

Samdari · 12-14-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

So now we are giving it to the guy with the most TD passes every year?

Actually this was a strange year. Staring in 2000, we have simply made it a habit to give it to the QB of the best team.

12-13-2009, 11:08 AM	#104
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	They are talking about McCoy. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

12-13-2009, 11:14 AM	#105
jbergey22 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota	Colt had an amazing career. 45 maybe 46 wins as a starter and numerous other records he set. He probably should have won it last year but was a victim of an odd situation. The bright side is he will go down as one of the best players in college football history to never win the award Last edited by jbergey22 : 12-13-2009 at 11:14 AM.

12-13-2009, 11:04 AM	#103
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	I'm not sure which player you guys are talking about. If it is Ingram, he did face quality defenses and performed well against them.

12-13-2009, 02:29 PM	#110
sooner333 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Norman, OK	The argument I can see for McCoy last year is that he beat the other guy's team head-to-head with less of a supporting cast. Bradford had two 1,000-yard rushers to compliment him, an incredible offensive line (at least one guy starting for a playoff contender as a rookie), and very solid wideouts. McCoy was his team's leading rusher, IIRC. He meant more to a team that had the same record. I still think Sam played better than Colt, but if you want to say "most outstanding" means "importance to team" then you'd almost have to go with Colt.

12-14-2009, 03:20 PM	#113
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	Some stats for those who think Suh only deserved recognition for one game: Alabama's (#1 defense) top 4 defensive linemans stats: 98 tkl 23.5 tfl 9.5 sac 20 qbh 5 pbu 0 int 1 ff 3 blk Suh's stats 82 tkl 23 tfl 12 sac 24 qbh 10 pbu 1 int 1 ff 3 blk

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