The FOFC Mole Season 2: OFFICIAL GAME THREAD - Page 3

MIJB#19 · 08-08-2009, 01:51 PM

So you mean rook A1 can still 'see' chests after moving and thus help other pieces narrow down their search. Then it sounds like a very good idea to let rook A1 move first after placing of all pieces.

MJ4H · 08-08-2009, 01:53 PM

No. I mean help others with the logic puzzle of figuring out where they should move. Participate in the discussions.

BrianD · 08-08-2009, 01:59 PM

Are we collecting money for the group, or individually?

MJ4H · 08-08-2009, 02:00 PM

Group.

BrianD · 08-08-2009, 02:06 PM

I will go H6.

MJ4H · 08-08-2009, 02:09 PM

MJ4H · 08-08-2009, 02:10 PM

For the record, order of placement does matter. If the queen had been placed after the king in time, the queen would be able to "see" fewer pieces, since the king makes fewer legal moves for the queen.

hoopsguy · 08-08-2009, 02:14 PM

If I select a black square does that mean that Poli (other bishop) would be required to select a white square? Or no such dependencies for this exercise?

MJ4H · 08-08-2009, 02:16 PM

No you may place your piece on any empty square.

MIJB#19 · 08-08-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ4H

No. I mean help others with the logic puzzle of figuring out where they should move. Participate in the discussions.

Gotcha. I guess the rules were a bit unclear to me on that part.

Okay, so we do have to watch out for blocking paths of other pieces.

Is this anything helpful?

Code:

R000000000
07...7...7
0.7..7..7.
0..7.7.7..
0...77222.
07777Q2K27
0...77222.
0..7.7.7..
0.7..7..7.
07...7...7

hoopsguy · 08-08-2009, 02:37 PM

I'm thinking about putting my bishop on F5, which would provide me access to a total of 19 squares total. There would be a small bit of overlap with the adjacent queen, but my initial vibe is that this square provides the most information.

Any thoughts from the others before I commit to that spot?

MIJB#19 · 08-08-2009, 02:45 PM

Based on the information we have now, I think these are the odds, per square, of there being a treasure chest:

Roo	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%
00%	13%	13%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	13%	13%
00%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%
00%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%
00%	13%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	13%
00%	13%	13%	13%	22%	22%	25%	25%	25%	13%
00%	22%	22%	22%	22%	Que	25%	Kin	25%	22%
00%	13%	13%	13%	22%	22%	25%	25%	25%	13%
00%	13%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	13%
00%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%
00%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%

Rook has 18 squares with 0 chests, thus all those squares have a 0% chance
King has 8 squares with 2 chests, thus each on reach 25%
Queen has 4 of the king's squares (4*25%) + 27 more not covered by the rook for the other 6 out of 7 chests, is 22% chance per square
remaining squares: 15-8 chests (2 for the king, 6 more for the queen) = 7 on 52 squares = 13% each

BrianD · 08-08-2009, 02:48 PM

Since we only get one move, I don't think maximizing our potential moves is all that important. If we can go close to each other and try to figure out exactly where the treasures are, that might help. Might as well go on a spot that might have a treasure and see if we can eliminate some stuff from there.

MIJB#19 · 08-08-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm thinking about putting my bishop on F5, which would provide me access to a total of 19 squares total. There would be a small bit of overlap with the adjacent queen, but my initial vibe is that this square provides the most information.

Any thoughts from the others before I commit to that spot?

19 is the best you can do, so in theory it sounds like a decent enough spot.

At the same time, looking at the odds calculated, I'd actually think it might be a better idea to provide more coverage for the fields of 25% and 22%, to increase our chances. No?

MJ4H · 08-08-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Based on the information we have now, I think these are the odds, per square, of there being a treasure chest:

Roo	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%
00%	13%	13%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	13%	13%
00%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%
00%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%
00%	13%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	13%
00%	13%	13%	13%	22%	22%	25%	25%	25%	13%
00%	22%	22%	22%	22%	Que	25%	Kin	25%	22%
00%	13%	13%	13%	22%	22%	25%	25%	25%	13%
00%	13%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	13%
00%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%
00%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%

Rook has 18 squares with 0 chests, thus all those squares have a 0% chance
King has 8 squares with 2 chests, thus each on reach 25%
Queen has 4 of the king's squares (4*25%) + 27 more not covered by the rook for the other 6 out of 7 chests, is 22% chance per square
remaining squares: 15-8 chests (2 for the king, 6 more for the queen) = 7 on 52 squares = 13% each

I love this post.

MIJB#19 · 08-08-2009, 02:53 PM

Added coordinates to the diagram and got rid of an extra line (

), plus bolded the spots with pieces

	A	B	C	D	E	F	G	H	I	J
1	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%	00%
2	00%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%
3	00%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%
4	00%	13%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	13%
5	00%	13%	13%	13%	22%	22%	25%	25%	25%	13%
6	00%	22%	22%	22%	22%	00%	25%	00%	25%	22%
7	00%	13%	13%	13%	22%	22%	25%	25%	25%	13%
8	00%	13%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	22%	13%	13%
9	00%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	22%	13%
10	00%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%	13%	13%	13%	22%

MIJB#19 · 08-08-2009, 02:56 PM

From the look of that, G5 or G7 seem like a great space for the second rook or one of the bishops to narrow down the chances for the stuff between the king and queen. Or does that sound too crazy?

hoopsguy · 08-08-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

19 is the best you can do, so in theory it sounds like a decent enough spot.

At the same time, looking at the odds calculated, I'd actually think it might be a better idea to provide more coverage for the fields of 25% and 22%, to increase our chances. No?

Going off the grid you posted (nice work, btw), then I think the two bishops could line up in G5 and G6 to maximize the 25/22 spots.

I'm not sure that provides us as much total information about other squares, but it should provide us better information about the squares we can access. I think I agree with you (and BrianD) about this being a better strategy.

claphamsa · 08-08-2009, 05:48 PM

are we allowed to edit?

MJ4H · 08-08-2009, 06:26 PM

Edit what? Previous posts? Sure, but it won't change a move that's already been made.

claphamsa · 08-08-2009, 06:39 PM

Knight to C3!

hoopsguy · 08-08-2009, 06:43 PM

I'll set up shop at G5.

MJ4H · 08-08-2009, 06:45 PM

Half of the 8 pieces have been placed!

path12 · 08-08-2009, 06:46 PM

Wouldn't J10 make sense for the second rook?

MJ4H · 08-08-2009, 06:47 PM

MIJB#19 · 08-09-2009, 03:15 AM

hmmm, the knight at C3 revealed new information for only 5 squares.

I tried to create a new grid, but I'm not 100% sure the numbers are correct, as the squares covered by multiple pieces are getting tougher to figure out.

What does seem to be pretty sure:
* squares covered by the king improved from 2/8 to 2/7 odds
* squares covered by both the queen and bishop improved to roughly 25%
* squares covered by just the queen saw a drecease to roughly 16%
* uncovered squares went up to rougly 20%

	A	B	C	D	E	F	G	H	I	J
1	rk	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
2	0	16	20	25	0	16	20	20	20	25
3	0	20	kn	20	25	16	20	20	25	20
4	0	20	20	16	0	25	20	25	20	20
5	0	0	20	0	16	16	bi	29	29	20
6	0	16	16	16	16	qu	29	ki	29	16
7	0	20	20	20	25	16	29	29	27	20
8	0	20	20	25	20	16	20	16	20	25
9	0	20	25	20	20	16	20	20	16	20
10	0	25	20	20	20	16	20	20	20	16

MIJB#19 · 08-09-2009, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

Wouldn't J10 make sense for the second rook?

Based on my grid, square I7 has the highest sum of percentage points of the squares covered.

Maximum value for the 2nd knight seems to be in G6, with F7 as second best. For the bishop the best value seems to be at G6, with F5, F7 and E7 as the best alternatives.

Butter · 08-09-2009, 09:01 AM

Any suggestions for my knight?

samifan24 · 08-09-2009, 09:09 AM

I think we should put a piece in the bottom left, say around C9. I'd say just pick a low % square that my queen can't reach on the diagonal or in one move.

By the way, I thought MJ4H was going to tell us if we landed on treasure when we placed our pieces. Does that mean we've missed every time or are you waiting to tell us?

BrianD · 08-09-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifan24

I think we should put a piece in the bottom left, say around C9. I'd say just pick a low % square that my queen can't reach on the diagonal or in one move.

By the way, I thought MJ4H was going to tell us if we landed on treasure when we placed our pieces. Does that mean we've missed every time or are you waiting to tell us?

You mean a high percentage square, right? It is better to raise the probability of getting treasure on the placement.

MJ4H · 08-09-2009, 09:26 AM

You have not landed on a treasure square yet.

path12 · 08-09-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Based on my grid, square I7 has the highest sum of percentage points of the squares covered.

Maximum value for the 2nd knight seems to be in G6, with F7 as second best. For the bishop the best value seems to be at G6, with F5, F7 and E7 as the best alternatives.

It's early and I'm a little hung over so excuse me for being the village idiot. So you're saying then that I7 is the best spot for the second rook, right?

MIJB#19 · 08-09-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifan24

I think we should put a piece in the bottom left, say around C9. I'd say just pick a low % square that my queen can't reach on the diagonal or in one move.

C9 covers only 4 new squares of possible information. I'd rasther see it in, like, D8, so it has 8 squares to 'see'.

I'm with BrianD on maximizing value around the king. Narrow down which two spaces have the treasures there and then take some fliers in the diagonals of the already placed bishop.

MIJB#19 · 08-09-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

It's early and I'm a little hung over so excuse me for being the village idiot. So you're saying then that I7 is the best spot for the second rook, right?

I think so, yes. If it doesn't his a treasure right away, the stuff around the king will all became 33%, which is good value as it will ensure us of 2 chests at minimum and based on luck of the first few moves, we could take random shots in the bishop's diagonal.

path12 · 08-09-2009, 10:48 AM

OK. I'll set up shop at I7 then. Thanks!

samifan24 · 08-09-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

You mean a high percentage square, right? It is better to raise the probability of getting treasure on the placement.

LOL can you tell I was tired when I wrote that? Yes I mean a high % square so we can maximize visibility and cover the most ground.

samifan24 · 08-09-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

C9 covers only 4 new squares of possible information. I'd rasther see it in, like, D8, so it has 8 squares to 'see'.

I'm with BrianD on maximizing value around the king. Narrow down which two spaces have the treasures there and then take some fliers in the diagonals of the already placed bishop.

Actually I don't think we should do C9 or D8. I can hit all of these pieces on the diagonal with my queen from my current position. We should try to spots that we can't hit in one move and, since I have the most powerful piece, we should probably use my piece as the center around which all other other moves are based.

MIJB#19 · 08-09-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifan24

Actually I don't think we should do C9 or D8. I can hit all of these pieces on the diagonal with my queen from my current position. We should try to spots that we can't hit in one move and, since I have the most powerful piece, we should probably use my piece as the center around which all other other moves are based.

Ah, yes. Something like D7 or E8 for the second knight?
And yes, I think the queen should be the last peice moving because of the potential.

samifan24 · 08-09-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Ah, yes. Something like D7 or E8 for the second knight?
And yes, I think the queen should be the last peice moving because of the potential.

I would say maybe put the rook in E8, E10 or somewhere in J but away from the other rook.

MJ4H · 08-09-2009, 03:56 PM

Poli · 08-09-2009, 05:05 PM

Taking any suggestions on where to go.

MJ4H · 08-09-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poli

Taking any suggestions on where to go.

I have one.

Spoiler

Poli · 08-09-2009, 05:09 PM

I could go to the National Championship if Clint Stoerner was still a quarterback.

Spoiler

MJ4H · 08-09-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poli

I could go to the National Championship if Clint Stoerner was still a quarterback.

Spoiler

MIJB#19 · 08-09-2009, 05:47 PM

well, that rook at I7 probably didn't help, much. That should basically upgrade the odds of a chest in the squares around the king to 33% and downgrade all other squares in the rook's range by 1%.

Other than that, I'm kinda out of good ideas for now.

BrianD · 08-09-2009, 05:53 PM

I'm thinking there might be a treasure at I6.

Poli · 08-09-2009, 05:56 PM

I'll go I6 then.

MJ4H · 08-09-2009, 06:09 PM

BrianD · 08-09-2009, 06:40 PM

Well, crap.

hoopsguy · 08-09-2009, 08:36 PM

OK, thoughts on the King.

5 spots around him, 2 with chests.
Lets just eliminate the two spots around Poli's bishop. He has 1 hit across his 11 squares, so picking one of those two for the king move is not a high probability move.

Of the three remaining squares, there is only one of them that cannot be accessed by the queen. I5. I think that is where the King should move.

We still have one more piece to move that could potentially impact this logic, but I think this makes sense based on the seven pieces on the board right now.

08-08-2009, 01:51 PM	#101
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	So you mean rook A1 can still 'see' chests after moving and thus help other pieces narrow down their search. Then it sounds like a very good idea to let rook A1 move first after placing of all pieces. __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

08-08-2009, 01:53 PM	#102
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	No. I mean help others with the logic puzzle of figuring out where they should move. Participate in the discussions. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

08-08-2009, 02:00 PM	#104
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	Group. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

08-08-2009, 02:09 PM	#106
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	__________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

08-08-2009, 02:10 PM	#107
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	For the record, order of placement does matter. If the queen had been placed after the king in time, the queen would be able to "see" fewer pieces, since the king makes fewer legal moves for the queen. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

08-08-2009, 01:59 PM	#103
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Are we collecting money for the group, or individually?

08-08-2009, 02:06 PM	#105
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	I will go H6.

08-08-2009, 02:14 PM	#108
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	If I select a black square does that mean that Poli (other bishop) would be required to select a white square? Or no such dependencies for this exercise?

08-08-2009, 02:16 PM	#109
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	No you may place your piece on any empty square. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

08-08-2009, 02:37 PM	#111
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm thinking about putting my bishop on F5, which would provide me access to a total of 19 squares total. There would be a small bit of overlap with the adjacent queen, but my initial vibe is that this square provides the most information. Any thoughts from the others before I commit to that spot?

08-08-2009, 02:48 PM	#113
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Since we only get one move, I don't think maximizing our potential moves is all that important. If we can go close to each other and try to figure out exactly where the treasures are, that might help. Might as well go on a spot that might have a treasure and see if we can eliminate some stuff from there.

08-08-2009, 02:56 PM	#117
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	From the look of that, G5 or G7 seem like a great space for the second rook or one of the bishops to narrow down the chances for the stuff between the king and queen. Or does that sound too crazy? __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

08-08-2009, 05:48 PM	#119
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	are we allowed to edit? __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!! Last edited by claphamsa : 08-08-2009 at 05:50 PM.

08-08-2009, 06:26 PM	#120
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	Edit what? Previous posts? Sure, but it won't change a move that's already been made. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

08-08-2009, 06:39 PM	#121
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	Knight to C3! __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

08-08-2009, 06:43 PM	#122
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'll set up shop at G5.

08-08-2009, 06:45 PM	#123
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	Half of the 8 pieces have been placed! __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

08-08-2009, 06:46 PM	#124
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	Wouldn't J10 make sense for the second rook? __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

08-08-2009, 06:47 PM	#125
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	__________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

08-09-2009, 09:01 AM	#128
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	Any suggestions for my knight? __________________ My listening habits

08-09-2009, 09:09 AM	#129
samifan24 Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NC	I think we should put a piece in the bottom left, say around C9. I'd say just pick a low % square that my queen can't reach on the diagonal or in one move. By the way, I thought MJ4H was going to tell us if we landed on treasure when we placed our pieces. Does that mean we've missed every time or are you waiting to tell us? __________________ "You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball...and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." -Jim Bouton

08-09-2009, 09:26 AM	#131
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	You have not landed on a treasure square yet. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

08-09-2009, 10:48 AM	#135
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	OK. I'll set up shop at I7 then. Thanks! __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

08-09-2009, 03:56 PM	#140
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	__________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

08-09-2009, 05:05 PM	#141
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Taking any suggestions on where to go. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

08-09-2009, 05:09 PM	#143
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I could go to the National Championship if Clint Stoerner was still a quarterback. Spoiler __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

08-09-2009, 05:47 PM	#145
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	well, that rook at I7 probably didn't help, much. That should basically upgrade the odds of a chest in the squares around the king to 33% and downgrade all other squares in the rook's range by 1%. Other than that, I'm kinda out of good ideas for now. __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

08-09-2009, 05:53 PM	#146
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	I'm thinking there might be a treasure at I6.

08-09-2009, 05:56 PM	#147
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I'll go I6 then. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

08-09-2009, 06:09 PM	#148
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	__________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

08-09-2009, 06:40 PM	#149
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Well, crap.

08-09-2009, 08:36 PM	#150
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	OK, thoughts on the King. 5 spots around him, 2 with chests. Lets just eliminate the two spots around Poli's bishop. He has 1 hit across his 11 squares, so picking one of those two for the king move is not a high probability move. Of the three remaining squares, there is only one of them that cannot be accessed by the queen. I5. I think that is where the King should move. We still have one more piece to move that could potentially impact this logic, but I think this makes sense based on the seven pieces on the board right now.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)