April Console Sales Numbers

[wade moore]

If Netflix indeed gets a deal with M$/Sony to do their streaming there - I wonder if that has an immediate impact on Blu-Ray.

I know it will for me.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

If Netflix indeed gets a deal with M$/Sony to do their streaming there - I wonder if that has an immediate impact on Blu-Ray.

I know it will for me.

The problems that have been discussed numerous times before are that....

-Streaming compressed HD is not the same as uncompressed HD movies on a disc. Big difference in quality, both visual and audio.
-Most consumers do not have an internet connection that's fast enough to stream even compressed HD movies without significant quality issues.

Promises and reality as far as what Sony and Microsoft can deliver on their consoles in regards to streaming media are still miles apart.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Interesting numbers that may eventually have an effect on the console market. Blu-ray player stand-alone sales will surpass DVD player sales in August 2008 according to retailers. Some retailers are already reporting that Blu-ray player demand now exceeds DVD player demand. Also, revenue from Blu-ray players now has surpassed DVD player revenue, which is usually a key indicator for companies to shift to the more profitable option.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/blu052608.htm

Once again I question the "analysis" done in this article. Blu-Ray sales dropped 40% from January to February, and then rose 2% from February to March. That means Blu-Ray players will outsell DVD players by August? The article also claims low sales due to poor supply...which seems like the new marketing trend lately. The analysts may be working off of more numbers in the background which give credence to their predictions, but I'd really like to see them in the article.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The problems that have been discussed numerous times before are that....

-Streaming compressed HD is not the same as uncompressed HD movies on a disc. Big difference in quality, both visual and audio.
-Most consumers do not have an internet connection that's fast enough to stream even compressed HD movies without significant quality issues.

Promises and reality as far as what Sony and Microsoft can deliver on their consoles in regards to streaming media are still miles apart.

1. I think you overestimate how much the general consuming public cares about compressed vs. uncompressed. Videophiles, yes - general public - not so much.

2. I'm sure they have a caching system that deals with this. They are going to plan to have a way that a regular old cable connection will be just fine.

Anyway. Yeah, the quality is certainly a concern. But if Netflix just adds it on to your current subscription it's a no-brainer for me.

Hell, you should see the TV I'm watching now - I use low quality on my regular old-Tivo.

But, the HD TV comes soon and it's all over after that .

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The problems that have been discussed numerous times before are that....

-Streaming compressed HD is not the same as uncompressed HD movies on a disc. Big difference in quality, both visual and audio.
-Most consumers do not have an internet connection that's fast enough to stream even compressed HD movies without significant quality issues.

Promises and reality as far as what Sony and Microsoft can deliver on their consoles in regards to streaming media are still miles apart.

I still maintain that streaming HD is not necessary. Not every competition is based on exactly duplicate feature sets. Blu-Ray will be much prettier than streaming movies, but streaming movies will be a lot more convenient. There are plenty of potential pitfalls to the streaming movie model, but I believe focusing only on picture quality to be a mistake.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Once again I question the "analysis" done in this article. Blu-Ray sales dropped 40% from January to February, and then rose 2% from February to March. That means Blu-Ray players will outsell DVD players by August? The article also claims low sales due to poor supply...which seems like the new marketing trend lately. The analysts may be working off of more numbers in the background which give credence to their predictions, but I'd really like to see them in the article.

To be fair, I think it has to do with the fall in DVD player demand more than anything. I'm not sure that there's many people that don't own a DVD player at this point. Also, the manufacturers and studios are really going to be pressing the new media/players at this point. The profit margin in Blu-ray is MUCH greater. It's in their best financial interests to move to Blu-ray media as quickly as possible.

Also, as mentioned, those numbers do not include PS3 numbers, which are a substantial portion of BR players sales. While stand-alone player sales fell during that time, PS3 saw a substantial boost in sales which was probably more than just a coincedence.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Yeah, the quality is certainly a concern. But if Netflix just adds it on to your current subscription it's a no-brainer for me.

Hell, you should see the TV I'm watching now - I use low quality on my regular old-Tivo.

But, the HD TV comes soon and it's all over after that .

First, it won't be just an add-on to your current subscription. Netflix and Blockbuster are charging extra per month for customers who get Blu-ray movies. You can be sure that streaming HD content is likely to be a similar upgrade in subscription price. Nothing comes free.

As far as TIVO, I'm assuming you're going to upgrade in the form of a TIVO HD DVR or cable box HD DVR. It's a whole new game when you bring in the fancy TV.

FYI.....If you have a lifetime subscription on your current TIVO, you can get that transferred to a HD box for a fee. I did it and it was a pretty good deal.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

First, it won't be just an add-on to your current subscription. Netflix and Blockbuster are charging extra per month for customers who get Blu-ray movies. You can be sure that streaming HD content is likely to be a similar upgrade in subscription price. Nothing comes free.

As far as TIVO, I'm assuming you're going to upgrade in the form of a TIVO HD DVR or cable box HD DVR. It's a whole new game when you bring in the fancy TV.

FYI.....If you have a lifetime subscription on your current TIVO, you can get that transferred to a HD box for a fee. I did it and it was a pretty good deal.

Well, the $100 Netflix box is no additional charge to stream. HD may be additional, but as you said - Blu-Ray would be too so it's a wash.

Yeah. I'm going to give the Cox HD DVR a try. If I absolutely hate it I'll get a Series 3 Tivo and transfer my lifetime subscription. But the cost to try out Cox is so low that it seems stupid not to see how it is.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

To be fair, I think it has to do with the fall in DVD player demand more than anything. I'm not sure that there's many people that don't own a DVD player at this point. Also, the manufacturers and studios are really going to be pressing the new media/players at this point. The profit margin in Blu-ray is MUCH greater. It's in their best financial interests to move to Blu-ray media as quickly as possible.

I'm sure manufacturers would love to push Blu-Ray to get their profits, but they are going to have to be careful with that. The easiest way to push Blu-Ray is to shift shelf space from DVD movies to Blu-Ray movies...give people the idea that they have no choice but to make the inevitable shift to Blu-Ray. The tricky part is not upsetting people that have multiple DVD players and lots of movies into thinking that their movie format is going to be obsolete. If consumers get that idea, they may look a bit harder at the streaming formats.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by wade moore

1. I think you overestimate how much the general consuming public cares about compressed vs. uncompressed. Videophiles, yes - general public - not so much.

2. I'm sure they have a caching system that deals with this. They are going to plan to have a way that a regular old cable connection will be just fine.

Anyway. Yeah, the quality is certainly a concern. But if Netflix just adds it on to your current subscription it's a no-brainer for me.

Hell, you should see the TV I'm watching now - I use low quality on my regular old-Tivo.

But, the HD TV comes soon and it's all over after that .

Agreed with point 1. I know many people who are amazed at how good HD over the Sat looks and don't care to upgrade to Blu Ray. I'm a videophile, so I probably will upgrade in the future.

Also, agreed with point 2. DirecTV is offering on demand HD offerings now. They use caching and while you have to wait about 20-30 minutes to start watching your movie, it's not a bad deal at all.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like a surprise release on the PS3 may be imminent. A few days ago, there were rumors of an impending release of "Afrika" in Japan on August 28th........

http://www.siliconera.com/2008/05/23...ika-in-august/

Now there's a teaser site up for the game which may lend credence to that rumor........

http://www.jp.playstation.com/scej/title/afrika/

In other news, here's an article discussing the upcoming "Rise of the Argonauts" action RPG game for PS3/360............

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/rise...ml?sid=6191526

[Eaglesfan27]

I've been posting a lot of stuff about/from OS the last few months as I have been reading their site more than usual, lately. Today, they posted an interesting article about the appeal of text sims. Always nice to see some positive writing about the genre on other sites:

http://www.operationsports.com/feature.php?id=491

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I've been posting a lot of stuff about/from OS the last few months as I have been reading their site more than usual, lately. Today, they posted an interesting article about the appeal of text sims. Always nice to see some positive writing about the genre on other sites:

http://www.operationsports.com/feature.php?id=491

That's the 2nd or 3rd article they've written on text sims in the last few weeks. Not use if that's a new trend for them or if they generally do 1 a week on them (I don't frequent the site all that much).

[Big Fo]

I can't wait for the first text-sim to crack the charts (if I could routinely find the PC top 10 that is...) like Football Manager does in the UK, that will be the best monthly sales thread ever.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting article here discusses how Europe has now passed Asia in gaming market size. Given that some of the European countries still are in their market infancy when compared to the more mature American and Asian markets, there's room for explosive growth in Europe. It's the reason why Microsoft said they had to win Europe this year, but Sony is quickly gaining the upper hand in overall European console sales.

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=52505

[Neon_Chaos]

I did a final canvas before I'm going off to buy my PS3 this coming weekend.

Finally found a good package. About P22,000 inclusive of tax.

Which boils down to $500.

PS3 40 Gig, 2 Controllers, NBA 2k8 and GTA IV.

I'm getting giddy.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I did a final canvas before I'm going off to buy my PS3 this coming weekend.

Finally found a good package. About P22,000 inclusive of tax.

Which boils down to $500.

PS3 40 Gig, 2 Controllers, NBA 2k8 and GTA IV.

I'm getting giddy.

Are the controllers DualShock? It's well-worth the extra few bucks to get the DualShock controllers if they're available.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Amazon 50% off BR movies going on right now. I picked up '300' and a couple of horror flicks. Guess I had a bloodlust last night...........

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.htm...=bluraynews-20

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Are the controllers DualShock? It's well-worth the extra few bucks to get the DualShock controllers if they're available.

DS3-Sixaxis.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

DS3-Sixaxis.

Wow. Sounds like a pretty good deal.

[dervack]

Just a note, Netflix does not charge me extra for blu-ray movies.

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by dervack

Just a note, Netflix does not charge me extra for blu-ray movies.

To my knowledge, they don't charge anybody extra for blu-ray. It has moreso just been a rumor up until now.

[dervack]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

To my knowledge, they don't charge anybody extra for blu-ray. It has moreso just been a rumor up until now.

Oh ok. Well, Mizzou B-Ball fan was reporting it as fact.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

To my knowledge, they don't charge anybody extra for blu-ray. It has moreso just been a rumor up until now.

Netflix announced it on a conference call with investors a little while back. It's a fact, not a rumor.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The much anticipated 2.40 firmware update for the PS3 is finally on the way. Really happy to see that they included even more features than were originally anticipated. Update includes in-game XMB, universal friend lists, trophies, and custom soundtracks..........

http://www.gaming-age.com/news/2008/5/29-48

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dervack

Oh ok. Well, Mizzou B-Ball fan was reporting it as fact.

Here's the information about the Blu-ray changes at Netflix.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9924836-1.html

Netflix to charge more for Blu-ray subscriptions
Posted by Matthew Moskovciak

(Credit: CNET)Bad news today for home theater fans: Netflix CEO Reed Hastings said on a conference call that because Blu-ray discs cost more to purchase, the company plans on charging a premium on accounts that rent Blu-ray movies. Hastings said "consumers are used to paying more for high-definition," but with Blu-ray renters making up only a small percentage of Netflix subscribers, this certainly won't help spur adoption.

Previous to this announcement, videophiles have pretty much gotten a free-ride on renting higher-priced high-definition media, as Netflix offered both HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs to subscribers for no additional charge over a standard subscription--until Netflix stopped offering HD DVDs in February. Netflix continues to offer the ability to watch some movies online ("Watch Now") at no additional charge, but the selection is still pretty limited at this point (check out our hands-on from last year).

[Eaglesfan27]

A sony exec supports what Troy, I, and others were saying for a long time. The PS3 launch was seriously F'd up and he said the PS3 "was on life support for awhile." Of course, he went on to talk about how good the PS3 is doing now:

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/29/ps...mits-sony-ceo/

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

A sony exec supports what Troy, I, and others were saying for a long time. The PS3 launch was seriously F'd up and he said the PS3 "was on life support for awhile." Of course, he went on to talk about how good the PS3 is doing now:

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/29/ps...mits-sony-ceo/

That was a no-brainer. I've blasted the Sony brass several times in these threads for the handling of the release and their stupid PR statements in Europe where they claimed that hardware shortages were to blame for their low sales numbers while the 360 was building a substantial installed base in the UK and U.S.

Ironically, the roles are now reversed over the first few months of 2008. Sony is now making headway in Europe and North America with the big MGS4 release just over a week away. Meanwhile, Microsoft executives Shane Kim and Aaron Greenburg are making stupid statements in the media and Microsoft continues to have below average sales in a year where the 360's sales growth should be exploding. It's amazing how quickly things turn.

[Neuqua]

That's odd. To my knowledge I am not being charged extra, maybe this it has not gone into effect yet?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

That's odd. To my knowledge I am not being charged extra, maybe this it has not gone into effect yet?

Correct. It has not been implemented yet. I don't believe they've worked out the final pricing details.

[KWhit]

Weren't you guys trying to convince us that BluRay discs didn't actually cost more than DVDs a while back when we were having one of our 'discusions' about how quickly people would make the switch?

(And by you guys, I mean Mizzou and somebody else I can't remember).

[Eaglesfan27]

Analysts believe Microsoft and Netflix are about to announce a deal to stream Netflix movies through the 360:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6191882...stnews;title;2

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Weren't you guys trying to convince us that BluRay discs didn't actually cost more than DVDs a while back when we were having one of our 'discusions' about how quickly people would make the switch?

(And by you guys, I mean Mizzou and somebody else I can't remember).

I don't remember it quite that way.

Blu-ray costs more, sure, but I know the assertion I was making (and that he was probably agreeing with) is that if you're being discerning at all with your purchases, it's pretty easy to get your BD films for around $15-20.

Yeah, you still see CC and BBY sell DVDs for $4.99 every so often, and it'll be a long time before Blu-ray hits that point, but the $29.99 and $34.99 MSRP's you see on a lot of those discs are basically lazy-people subsidies. The folks who pay that much for BDs either don't feel the financial pinch strongly enough to bother finding better prices, or just don't care enough to exert the effort.

Now, as far as the Netflix decision, that really doesn't have much of anything to do with the cost of Blu-ray movies, per se.

See, rental chains generally don't have the luxury of price-shopping. They can buy in bulk, and get better deals that way, but they don't see the kind of price fluctuations from week to week or month to month that an ordinary consumer might.

Now, add to that the fact that Blu-ray/HD-DVD market penetration is still pretty small compared to the standard definition market, and they're in a situation where they still need to keep their hi-def customers happy, but there's a more limited return on investment for those movies. Thus, they've decided they have to charge a little bit more in order for them to be profitable.

But again, that's the rental market. That's not retail at-large.

[Neon_Chaos]

Ok, so I went to buy my PS3 over the weekend.

But I didn't.

When I got to the shop, they had an XBOX 360 package that was far superior to their PS3 package.

I broke down and finally bought it instead of the PS3.

Got the entire deal for P21,000 ($470)

XBOX 360 Premium (Falcon Chip)
1 extra wireless controller
2 rechargable batteries for the controller
GTA IV, NBA2K8, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, and Bioshock.

Needless to say, I have been holed up in my room for the past two days, and I can't seem to stop smiling.

[SackAttack]

Did you get the play and charge or quick charge kits so you can recharge those batteries?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Did you get the play and charge or quick charge kits so you can recharge those batteries?

No I didn't. The rechargable batteries came along with a separate (albeit free) charger.

Of the games above, only GTA IV was brand new. The other games were on re-sale.

[Neon_Chaos]

Also, the Falcon chip was a big reason why I bought the XBOX. I live in a tropical country, my house doesn't have central air, and things tend to get.... hot.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Ok, so I went to buy my PS3 over the weekend.

But I didn't.

When I got to the shop, they had an XBOX 360 package that was far superior to their PS3 package.

I broke down and finally bought it instead of the PS3.

Got the entire deal for P21,000 ($470)

XBOX 360 Premium (Falcon Chip)
1 extra wireless controller
2 rechargable batteries for the controller
GTA IV, NBA2K8, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, and Bioshock.

Needless to say, I have been holed up in my room for the past two days, and I can't seem to stop smiling.

Neon, that is a very good deal. GTA, Assassin's Creed, and Mass Effect are all great gaming experiences. I've been saving Bioshock for the summer but my students have said it is amazing. Nicely done IMHO.

[spleen1015]

There's not a package to be put together with anything PS3 that can beat the 360 package you got.

[Neon_Chaos]

I could have waited 4 to 6 more months for the release of the Valhalla chip XBOX 360... the CPU and GPU are both 65 nm, compared to the 90 nm chips of the old models. The Falcon chip only has the CPU set at 65 nm, but the GPU is still 90.

The great thing about it is that the Falcon model has HDMI out, which is always nice.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I don't remember it quite that way.

Blu-ray costs more, sure, but I know the assertion I was making (and that he was probably agreeing with) is that if you're being discerning at all with your purchases, it's pretty easy to get your BD films for around $15-20.

Yeah, you still see CC and BBY sell DVDs for $4.99 every so often, and it'll be a long time before Blu-ray hits that point, but the $29.99 and $34.99 MSRP's you see on a lot of those discs are basically lazy-people subsidies. The folks who pay that much for BDs either don't feel the financial pinch strongly enough to bother finding better prices, or just don't care enough to exert the effort.

Now, as far as the Netflix decision, that really doesn't have much of anything to do with the cost of Blu-ray movies, per se.

See, rental chains generally don't have the luxury of price-shopping. They can buy in bulk, and get better deals that way, but they don't see the kind of price fluctuations from week to week or month to month that an ordinary consumer might.

Now, add to that the fact that Blu-ray/HD-DVD market penetration is still pretty small compared to the standard definition market, and they're in a situation where they still need to keep their hi-def customers happy, but there's a more limited return on investment for those movies. Thus, they've decided they have to charge a little bit more in order for them to be profitable.

But again, that's the rental market. That's not retail at-large.

My argument was that you guys were basically trying to compare the sale price of bluray discs to the msrp of DVDs to say that there wasn't a real price difference.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by KWhit

My argument was that you guys were basically trying to compare the sale price of bluray discs to the msrp of DVDs to say that there wasn't a real price difference.

Yup. I can walk into Target or BJ's and buy new-release DVDs for typically around $18 (and they go up to $20 after a week or so). I'm waiting for Blu-Ray discs to hit the same point before I seriously consider making the leap. Regular "buy 2 get 1 free" deals don't do it for me except maybe early on building an initial collection. And if they can do those all the time, then just drop the price to $20.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by KWhit

My argument was that you guys were basically trying to compare the sale price of bluray discs to the msrp of DVDs to say that there wasn't a real price difference.

And that's certainly not the argument that SackAttack or I were making as he correctly stated. The only argument that either of us made previously was that they MSRP of $30-35 isn't anywhere near what most people pay for BR discs. BR discs, much like DVD's, are always on sale. You may not know this about the industry, but most new release DVD's released even today have a MSRP between $25-30, but it's just as inaccurate for me to say that most DVD's sell for that price.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good news for consumers who are holding off to buy a PS3 until the MGS4 bundle is released. A scan of the upcoming Wal-Mart circular which is making the rounds on the internet shows that anyone that purchases a MGS4 PS3 bundle will receive a $100 Wal-Mart gift card. Amazing that they would run this good of a promotion on a system seller, but I'm sure no one will complain.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Ok, so I went to buy my PS3 over the weekend.

But I didn't.

When I got to the shop, they had an XBOX 360 package that was far superior to their PS3 package.

I broke down and finally bought it instead of the PS3.

Got the entire deal for P21,000 ($470)

XBOX 360 Premium (Falcon Chip)
1 extra wireless controller
2 rechargable batteries for the controller
GTA IV, NBA2K8, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, and Bioshock.

Needless to say, I have been holed up in my room for the past two days, and I can't seem to stop smiling.

Bravo!!! Nicely done!

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Bravo!!! Nicely done!

Wow... that is a very nice deal!

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Good news for consumers who are holding off to buy a PS3 until the MGS4 bundle is released. A scan of the upcoming Wal-Mart circular which is making the rounds on the internet shows that anyone that purchases a MGS4 PS3 bundle will receive a $100 Wal-Mart gift card. Amazing that they would run this good of a promotion on a system seller, but I'm sure no one will complain.

Nope, no huge red flag here. None at all.

No way they'd be doing that if they felt MSG4 could move enough units on its own.

[dervack]

Originally Posted by cartman

Nope, no huge red flag here. None at all.

No way they'd be doing that if they felt MSG4 could move enough units on its own.

Actually, I think the $100 Gift Card is to help Wal-Mart move Blu-Ray movies more than anything since they just got into the market of selling catalog Blu-Ray instead of just New Releases.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by dervack

Actually, I think the $100 Gift Card is to help Wal-Mart move Blu-Ray movies more than anything since they just got into the market of selling catalog Blu-Ray instead of just New Releases.

If that were the case, they'd be more targeted with the offer, like buy 1 BR movie, get 4 free or something along those lines. If it is a $100 gift card, that can be used for anything in their store.

And if MGS4 was going to be the slam dunk system seller that some are predicting, why would a retailer throw such a big carrot out there at all?

[dervack]

Originally Posted by cartman

If that were the case, they'd be more targeted with the offer, like buy 1 BR movie, get 4 free or something along those lines. If it is a $100 gift card, that can be used for anything in their store.

And if MGS4 was going to be the slam dunk system seller that some are predicting, why would a retailer throw such a big carrot out there at all?

Well, they are doing it right now with the 40GB system, and the gift card you get, if the store still has them in stock, is Blu-Ray branded. Which I would assume would be the case for the new deal that they are offering too.