Alright, boyz!! Here we go...Madden 08 First impressions

[rkmsuf]

I hope this thing sucks. Having the release of Madden 08 as a "top ten play" should result in the complete destruction of Bristol.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Gamespot is kinda dumb with this review. gave both the 360 and PS3 the same score... but they say the PS3 has a lower framerate. Shouldn't that lower the score?

There's also no Wii review up yet! I want to see if anyone else mentions the lag.

There's truth to the opinion that Gamespot gives the same score to every game. There's no question that the PS3 game is inferior to the 360 version. Giving those two games the same score was just plain lazy and shows how little they actually go through all the features and gameplay of each game they review.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I hope this thing sucks. Having the release of Madden 08 as a "top ten play" should result in the complete destruction of Bristol.

That's a perfect example of how the Madden machine works. The game has had limited improvements for several years now from a gameplay perspective. They produce crazy amounts of hype for a game, making people think each and every year that 'this is the year' for Madden, only to find it's the same old tired song. They're a helluva marketing machine, I'll give them that.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

There's truth to the opinion that Gamespot gives the same score to every game. There's no question that the PS3 game is inferior to the 360 version. Giving those two games the same score was just plain lazy and shows how little they actually go through all the features and gameplay of each game they review.

I don't know which review site to trust anymore. I remember I gave up on IGN because they gave a bunch of games for the XBox scores of like 9, and when I played them at a friend's house they weren't close to that. One I remember in particular was the wrestling game (Raw I think)... in no way did that deserve a 9. I always thought Gamespot did a better job with scores. But now I don't know.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That's a perfect example of how the Madden machine works. The game has had limited improvements for several years now from a gameplay perspective. They produce crazy amounts of hype for a game, making people think each and every year that 'this is the year' for Madden, only to find it's the same old tired song. They're a helluva marketing machine, I'll give them that.

There were at least 3 or 4 "commericals" for the thing within sportscenter. I have to imagine the anchors feel like assholes having to hype that game during the show.

Oh wait, they probably don't. I'm the asshole for putting up with it.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

You too?? I've been having problems getting the last couple of updates. I thought I might have changed my wireless router's settings and forgotten to update the Wii with the new info... maybe there's something wrong with the network.

+1, actually. The last update took 4-5 tries before it finished successfully.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That's a perfect example of how the Madden machine works. The game has had limited improvements for several years now from a gameplay perspective. They produce crazy amounts of hype for a game, making people think each and every year that 'this is the year' for Madden, only to find it's the same old tired song. They're a helluva marketing machine, I'll give them that.

We go through this every single year.

About 1%, if that, of the Madden buying population realizes that there are issues with the game. MAYBE they lose 10% of those customers a year. The remaining 99% will buy it every year because they want the latest game, not because they suddenly think it will provide the most realistic NFL experience.

[spleen1015]

I don't think Madden Nation cares about interceptions counting twice. They just want to play Madden with new rosters and ratings. They want to take the new Vince Young and run all over their friends with him.

The only stat they're worried about being accurate is the score.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Logan

We go through this every single year.

About 1%, if that, of the Madden buying population realizes that there are issues with the game. MAYBE they lose 10% of those customers a year. The remaining 99% will buy it every year because they want the latest game, not because they suddenly think it will provide the most realistic NFL experience.

Yeah, I was thinking exactly what you're saying (well, except for the screwy (10% * 1%) + 99% math ). For most of these folks, every year is "the year" for Madden. To them, it's a brand new game with a new cover boy with new rosters. That's enough for these guys, and as long as they can play the game with their friends in dorm rooms or basements or whatever, they're more than happy. I have a hard time believing that most of these millions of people are buying each year because they're hoping to erase the disappointment of years past.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

We go through this every single year.

About 1%, if that, of the Madden buying population realizes that there are issues with the game. MAYBE they lose 10% of those customers a year. The remaining 99% will buy it every year because they want the latest game, not because they suddenly think it will provide the most realistic NFL experience.

Last year's final totals were down roughly 9% from previous year sales. That doesn't sound like 99% return to me. I would expect another sales decrease this year. EA's expecting increases in sales, not decreases.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I don't think Madden Nation cares about interceptions counting twice. They just want to play Madden with new rosters and ratings. They want to take the new Vince Young and run all over their friends with him.

The only stat they're worried about being accurate is the score.

can we get a roster patch with vick removed from the game already plz?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I don't think Madden Nation cares about interceptions counting twice. They just want to play Madden with new rosters and ratings. They want to take the new Vince Young and run all over their friends with him.

The only stat they're worried about being accurate is the score.

I have to say that I got into the NFL because of Madden. Played a couple of years, and got to know players. Who I liked, who I didn't. Who was good or bad based on ratings (I know they aren't accurate, but you can at least tell who's a powerful runner, the elite players, etc.).

I wanted to rent Madden 07 last year since I heard it was really fun playing against someone. It always seemed to be rented out, so I figured I'll just buy this year's version.

I felt like I got a better understanding/appreciation of individual players when I used them in Madden (this was before I participated in fantasy leagues). I've taken a couple of years off, but I feel like screwing around with some of the players I haven't had a chance to use yet.

[MizzouRah]

I've read a bunch of good impressions from people I trust on another site, just might pick this one up tomorrow.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I don't know which review site to trust anymore. I remember I gave up on IGN because they gave a bunch of games for the XBox scores of like 9, and when I played them at a friend's house they weren't close to that. One I remember in particular was the wrestling game (Raw I think)... in no way did that deserve a 9. I always thought Gamespot did a better job with scores. But now I don't know.

I've always trusted Gamespot's the most of any of the big review sites. They changed their scoring about 3 months ago to only be in .5 increments. They talk about the framerate in their PS3 review, but they didn't feel it justified lowering the gameplay by enough to make a difference in their new scoring system.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I've read a bunch of good impressions from people I trust on another site, just might pick this one up tomorrow.

If I hear more good impressions from guys I trust on here, I'll be picking it up tomorrow as well.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Last year's final totals were down roughly 9% from previous year sales. That doesn't sound like 99% return to me. I would expect another sales decrease this year. EA's expecting increases in sales, not decreases.

Didn't something in this thread say that last year's game was the largest selling game of all time? Was that just over the year? Either way...how are video game sales doing overall for comparison?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Logan

Didn't something in this thread say that last year's game was the largest selling game of all time? Was that just over the year? Either way...how are video game sales doing overall for comparison?

I think it was just for last year. I don't think that will happen this year though.

There are 9 million people playing the Burning Crusade.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

If I hear more good impressions from guys I trust on here, I'll be picking it up tomorrow as well.

Yeah, I've read it's buttery smooth, game flow is fast (which I love) and it's just downright fun to play. Animations are also more varied than NCAA.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Logan

Didn't something in this thread say that last year's game was the largest selling game of all time? Was that just over the year? Either way...how are video game sales doing overall for comparison?

That was me, and I just said it was the #1 selling game of last year. I don't know if the numbers dropped from the previous year, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Logan]

Ok, that's fine...but how can you still be "shocked" that people continue to buy this game without any improvements to the AI? I haven't done the analysis, but I'd be pretty surprised if the decrease in sales has to do with frustration over these issues and not more like the decreases in every other entertainment category which is basically just because of more options.

[MizzouRah]

It's the ONLY licensed football game out there, so there you have it.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

It's the ONLY licensed football game out there, so there you have it.

In my day we had QB Eagles and we liked it!

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

In my day we had QB Eagles and we liked it!

That QB Raiders, what a force last year.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

In my day we had QB Eagles and we liked it!

Oh yeah... Sega Genesis days!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Ok, that's fine...but how can you still be "shocked" that people continue to buy this game without any improvements to the AI? I haven't done the analysis, but I'd be pretty surprised if the decrease in sales has to do with frustration over these issues and not more like the decreases in every other entertainment category which is basically just because of more options.

Madden isn't the only EA franchise that has taken some hits in regards to sales. Tiger Woods, NBA and NHL franchises have all seen reduced sales. Overall, software unit sales for the industry are up, so EA is counter to the trend. This year's sales will help to show if it was just a one-year drop or more of a trend. They've got a ton of expenses in the form of license fees before they even sell a unit in addition to development fees. They can't afford diminishing returns.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

It's the ONLY licensed football game out there, so there you have it.

I'll take a game that plays well with no license over a licensed game with so-so gameplay anyday, especially at a $60 price point.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

It's the ONLY licensed football game out there, so there you have it.

Madden was easily the winner before all this license stuff became a big deal, no?

It has a huge brand name. It carries a status with athletes that you don't see in any other sport/game. It's featured in tournaments all over the country, there's a huge promotional blitz for it at the Super Bowl where athletes and celebrities play each other, there's a freakin TV show dedicated to its "best" players...it's time to simply understand that its success isn't just because of the quality of the game.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'll take a game that plays well with no license over a licensed game with so-so gameplay anyday, especially at a $60 price point.

I wouldn't. I'd rather take the hour I have a day to simply numb my brain and see if I can pull off some crazy shit with Reggie Bush. As long as that doesn't include things like fire-boosts and massive jumping, I'm fine with it.

To each his own. There's just a lot more people in my corner than yours.

[gstelmack]

There's a reason they went for the exclusive. NFL 2k5 gained a lot of traction on them.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

There's a reason they went for the exclusive. NFL 2k5 gained a lot of traction on them.

that means nothing. they spent more money on the exclusive license than it would have cost to develop it into the hands-down best football game. unless they're paying their programmers and R&D team millions of dollars...


basically you're saying they opted to pay (for the sake of argument) 46% more than what it would have cost than just invest in developing the game better. and that makes business sense how?

EA Exec: "NFL 2k5 is gaining on us. i say instead of investing another 4 million into next year's game, let's just spend $100+million to just buy the license so we don't have to worry about the competition, and thereby make it that much harder for us to realize a profit on every game we sell. all for the sake of not having to do this damn investing in innovative features bullshit every year".

[Eaglesfan27]

USA Today has their review of Madden up FWIW (I found this mildly humorous as I didn't know they did video game reviews.):

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/...n-nfl-08_N.htm

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

that means nothing. they spent more money on the exclusive license than it would have cost to develop it into the hands-down best football game. unless they're paying their programmers and R&D team millions of dollars...

basically you're saying they opted to pay (for the sake of argument) 46% more than what it would have cost to just invest in developing the game better. and that makes business sense how?

That just shows that there is no good reason not to put money into the development side.

As for making sense, keep in mind that they have been quoted as being annoyed at the 2k8 game because they felt it used a loophole in their license that they needed to close. This was a bid to get rid of everyone else (and by that I mean 2k Sports) pure and simple. They sure didn't need it from a marketing standpoint...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

I wouldn't. I'd rather take the hour I have a day to simply numb my brain and see if I can pull off some crazy shit with Reggie Bush. As long as that doesn't include things like fire-boosts and massive jumping, I'm fine with it.

To each his own. There's just a lot more people in my corner than yours.

There's not necessarily a lot more people in your corner. There's just a monopoly at this point that happens to be owned by the company that uses the licenses. That doesn't prove that it's the better option by any means. I'd like a licensed game that has good gameplay, but that's simply not going to happen as long as EA holds the licenses and there's no chance for competition.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

That just shows that there is no good reason not to put money into the development side.

As for making sense, keep in mind that they have been quoted as being annoyed at the 2k8 game because they felt it used a loophole in their license that they needed to close. This was a bid to get rid of everyone else (and by that I mean 2k Sports) pure and simple. They sure didn't need it from a marketing standpoint...

Honestly, EA seems more worried about eliminating competition in any form than actually improving their game.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Logan

Madden was easily the winner before all this license stuff became a big deal, no?

It has a huge brand name. It carries a status with athletes that you don't see in any other sport/game. It's featured in tournaments all over the country, there's a huge promotional blitz for it at the Super Bowl where athletes and celebrities play each other, there's a freakin TV show dedicated to its "best" players...it's time to simply understand that its success isn't just because of the quality of the game.

No doubt about it.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

There's not necessarily a lot more people in your corner. There's just a monopoly at this point that happens to be owned by the company that uses the licenses. That doesn't prove that it's the better option by any means. I'd like a licensed game that has good gameplay, but that's simply not going to happen as long as EA holds the licenses and there's no chance for competition.

Where did I say that it was a better option? I just said that there's more people who side with me, who want to enjoy themselves while maintaining some semblance of realism. Most people don't care enough to look over stats to measure if YPC, QB completion percentage, pancake blocks, etc are all accurate. They'll look at stats to see where their 2200 yard RB falls in, but not much else.

If you really think that Madden will have been reduced to 25% market share by now if they didn't have an exclusive license, you're insane.

[gstelmack]

2k5 got a lot of attention for having more fun gameplay and fewer of the annoying "LB jumps 10 feet to intercept ball, DBs have radar vision while WRs have no clue where the ball is going" type issues that Madden had. No one is saying Madden would be at 25%, but I do believe Madden would have to be fighting tooth-and-nail if 2k still had an NFL license...

[TroyF]

Seriously, it is a big event. Madden has TV shows about it, constant articles about it, the athletes play the thing a ton (Reggie Bush supposedly purchased XBox 360's for his entire offense), and the majority of the public loves the game. (just not those of us who want a more "real" experience)

I have no issues with the Madden release being on SportsCenter. None at all.

And I'm one of the morons who buys into the hype. I'll be buying the game this afternoon.

[Anthony]

i'm buying tomorrow. i don't care about much of what the nerds are complaining about. i played NCAA 08 against a friend over the weekend, and we had a blast. we promised to get madden and i have no reason to suspect we'll have less fun over the internet. i don't need online leagues cuz it's impossible to get everyone to play on a scheduled basis.

the funny thing with these madden bashers, and don't mistake me for a madden fanboy, is that they'll say "us 1% of people really know just what's wrong with madden, while you get 99% of the idiotic masses who fall for the same marketing ploys year after year". ever wonder why such complainers are always in the minority? perhaps it's cuz they're nitpicking about things that ultimately don't matter and they're missing the big picture.

i don't crave an ultra-realistic NFL sim. i just want to be entertained for the hour or so i spend playing the game. that's not asking a lot.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm still sitting on the fence with the pc version. i feel like i could be happy with the 07 version with updated rosters based on what icy posted about the pc version earlier (how it's a year behind in terms of gang-tackles and stuff), but I just wish I could get the off-the-field stuff of 08 in the 07 game...without having to pay through the butthole for it. maybe i'll wait till it comes down in price a bit...

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Logan

Madden was easily the winner before all this license stuff became a big deal, no?

It has a huge brand name. It carries a status with athletes that you don't see in any other sport/game. It's featured in tournaments all over the country, there's a huge promotional blitz for it at the Super Bowl where athletes and celebrities play each other, there's a freakin TV show dedicated to its "best" players...it's time to simply understand that its success isn't just because of the quality of the game.

Missed this post. Madden was easily the winner of the marketing campaign. No doubt about it.

But 2K was by far and away the better game. I think EA saw that 2K would have grabbed a niche for itself and wanted to shut it down. It's the same thing they tried to do with the NBA2K series. They wanted it shut down because the game was far better than theirs. The NBA said no and EA has been forced to revamp their game to compete. All of us gamers are better off because of that.

If I'm sounding like I'm in the middle it's because I am. There is ZERO doubt that more competition would make for better gaming. On the other hand, EA, weather by marketing or by solid game production, was able to get the cash to outmarket the other guy. That's the free market system at work. I can't blame them for trying to wipe out the competition. You can win the sales game in multiple ways and one of those ways is to eliminate anyone else from the playing field.

Thank God the NBA and the NHL have held firm and frozen EA out. Too bad the MLB has frozen EA out. The exclusive contracts suck.

Just picked up Madden, will pop it in after dinner.

[MizzouRah]

I'm getting it as well, probably tomorrow as I forgot my wallet today.

I had a blast with APF, but after a season.. I'm bored with it. REALLY hope they expand the game next year.

[MizzouRah]

Wife just called, she has my wallet! Guess I'll run by her work and pick it up.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I'm getting it as well, probably tomorrow as I forgot my wallet today.

I had a blast with APF, but after a season.. I'm bored with it. REALLY hope they expand the game next year.

See, I'm not bored at all with APF. I love the fact I can play with multiple stars and change up every so often.

I also like that I can actually use some of the all time great Denver Broncos. As there is only one Bronco in the HOF and he's not in the EA game, I'm on the sidelines again unless I start creating a crapload of players. (not going to happen)

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Logan

Didn't something in this thread say that last year's game was the largest selling game of all time? Was that just over the year? Either way...how are video game sales doing overall for comparison?

I think that is because it was out on every single system. 360, XBox, PS3, PS2, PSP, etc. I'd be interested to see how it stacks up on a system to system basis.

[Logan]

Any NYCers been to the Best Buy in midtown to see if they have non-preorder 360 copies?

[gstelmack]

I'm going to be curious how SS turns out for everyone. That would be the one reason I'll consider it, to bring my NCAA 08 CL over to continue his career. I'm having fun in CL and may not want to stop...

[TroyF]

OK, played a game of it. Here are the quick impressions:

Game was played with default sliders, 8 minute quarters, default rosters. All-Pro level. Denver at Buffalo. I controlled Denver and won 40-20.

The Really Good

1) Nothing felt "cheap" to me. Either side. There were more turnovers than I'd like and I'll certainly tweak the sliders for those, but the turnovers that occurred, at least from my end, were deserved. Horrific decisions on 2 INT's for me. Losman threw 4 pics, 3 inside the Broncos 10. 1 was returned for a TD. Game is much closer otherwise.

2) Most realistic running game ever in a Madden. The runs were varied. 3 yards here, 4 yards there. Henry was on his way to a solid 20+ carry 90+ yard day until the fourth quarter. In the fourth, with Buffalo down, they took a ton of chances. Some of the run blitzes worked. One failed miserably. After about 5 straight runs up the middle, I ran a sweep to the outside, they were caught in an inside run blitz. My blockers did their job and Henry took it to the house for a 72 yard TD run. 24 carries, 153 yards on the day.

For the Bills, Lynch ran it 19 times for 57 yards. He also caught 6 passes.

3) Outside of the INT's, I really enjoyed the passing game. My good decisions were rewarded. (like when I caught the safety one on one with Walker for a 16 yard TD pass) When I held the ball, I paid the price. (3 sacks, 1 fumble) When I made poor decisions, the passes weren't caught. 16-24, 233 yards, 2 TD, 2 INT for Cutler. Not an unrealistic figure at all.

Being down, the Bills threw the football a lot. Losman ended up 24-48, 300 yards, 2 TD, 4 INT. (Bailey with 3 and Bly with a 97 yard TD return) One thing I liked is that Losman made me pay the price a few times for going straight man to man coverage. (as I did most of the game) He ran 3 times for 24 yards. 2 of those scrambles came on third downs and resulted in Bills first downs. It was nice to seem him scramble a bit. I had 3 sacks myself.

3) Solid animations. Not as good as 2K8, but solid none the less. Gang tackling is there and timing a hit with the stick can be pretty powerful stuff.

The Not So Good:

1) God, the announcer sucks. A decent football game with a presentation level of a HS game. Good job EA. (Plan on playing some music in the background while you play the game. No way the announcer is going to hold your attention)

2) I need to play with SuperSim stats. On 8 minute quarters, the Broncos had 873 yards, the Bills 925 during a sim test. I'm going to try 5 minute quarters and hope to God they are better. It also takes longer than I'd like to load in and out of super sims. Going to take a lot longer than I initially thought for the work around. Not impossible, but not great either. I'd say EA should be better than this, but you'd just laugh.

3) Not really a ratings complaining kind of guy, but God did they screw up some of them. Elam with a booming leg? He was booming kicks to the back of the end zone. Ummm, give me a freakin break, he doesn't even kick off anymore. Please. . .

4) Again with the presentation. They are called chains and refs EA, how F'n hard are they to add in the game? It's a good thing the gameplay is good, because the presentation is almost inexcusable for a game like this. Truly pathetic.

----------------------------------------------

Overall, I like it. The gameplay seems solid thus far. I'm going to turn down the INT's to the bottom and play with the Broncos against San Diego. See how it is against a much tougher defense and LT.

Will report more later.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I turned interceptions and knockdowns to 0, and I picked off Drew Brees three times in an 8-minute quarter. It was Bailey or Bly, either. It was Karl Paymah and Dominique Foxworth. Urgh.

Edit: I'd also like to add that the auto-sub numbers might need adjustment. I believe the defaults are 63/84 out/in. I bumped them up to 75/89, and I still didn't feel like I was seeing Reggie Bush on the field often enough. That's just from barely over a quarter of play, though, so who knows? I agree with TroyF about Elam kicking into the end zone. It was pretty ridiculous. I dropped the kickoff power slider down to 30, but it didn't help. I don't know if that's because they messed up Elam's kickoff power rating or because the slider needs to get dropped even more. It's something to look for.

[Richard Weed]

Wasn't going to buy it today, but with this deal, it's $48 plus tax for the 360 or PS3. Less if you go old gen.

http://www.maddenmania.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=167054

Edit--That's a 20% off coupon for Toys R Us.