You're on the clock with the #1 pick in the NBA Draft....

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Oden will be good, maybe? I saw Ewing, Olajuwon, Duncan, and O'Neal all play as freshmen in college, none were as good then as Oden is now.

Ewing was closest, better defensively, but surprisingly nowhere near as good offensively as a freshman as Oden is now. Ewing would block everything into the bleachers, utterly dominant on D, very unpolished offensively.

Olajuwon is the guy who Oden reminds me of the most in terms of physical presence combined with athleticism and power. But as a college freshman Hakeen was still learning how to play the game so not a fair comparison.

Duncan was pretty raw as a freshman and made a huge leap his sophomore season.

O'Neal was a physical freak from day one, but as a freshman utterly unpolished. Nowhere near the kind of skills Oden has on either side of the ball.

I read an interview yesterday with Thad Matta where he admits from December to Feb the team was desperately trying to hide just how bad Oden's injury was. He took a lot of heat from critics blaming him for not using Oden properly, when the simple fact is Oden was doing about all he could do. The Oden we saw in the final and in the Big 10 tourney is the real deal. And the foul trouble? Compared to all the guys I mentioned except Duncan, Oden is much better at playing with fouls than they were as freshmen. He is more polished than any of them were, and perhaps not more spectacular, but certainly a more fundamentally sound defender that any of them were. The only thing that will prevent Oden from greatness will be injuries.

As for Durant, tremendous skills. Very reminiscient of Bob McAdoo who IMO is one of the most overlooked players in NBA history. Problem with Durant is he will get tossed like a ragdoll in the NBA. He simply does not have an NBA body, yet. I think he needs at least another year in college to get some strength work done. He needs 30 pounds.

Excellent analysis. I think any other year, Durant is the consensus #1 based on his potential. Oden looks like he could be very special and at the least an All-Star. I don't see how any GM could pass on Oden.

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He (Durant) will shoot over smaller players or post them up, he is quicker than players his same height.

Are you not familiar with the NBA game? Sorry to dissappoint, but the NBA is chock full of 6'9" guys who run like gazelles. If he plays a 2 then I agree he will post up and shoot over anyone in his way, but he doesn't have the ball skills to play 2. In fact I'm not sure he has the ball skills to play 3, yet. I think that will come and a 3 is what he'll be. But in the NBA he would get smoked on the ball at 3 and tossed around at 4. He needs to learn to dribble penetrate or put on some muscle or both.

Originally Posted by jbergey22

His touch around the basket to me is very "Shaq"esqe which is a scary thought considering Oden doesnt have the size of the diesel. At this point I am not using the first round pick on a guy I think may end up like a young Dikembe Mutumbo when I see an immediate star there for the taking.

OK, I'm guessing you didn't watch Shaq much when he was 18. Oden is bigger than Shaq was at 18. Shaq really packed on the weight between college and the pros. And as I said before, Oden is WAY more skilled than Shaq was at 18. Shaq as a freshman knocked a lot of people around and blocked a lot of shots. He also had Stanley Roberts next to him taking a lot of pressure off of him to do anything on offense other than put-back dunks. As for Mutumbo, Oden is bigger, faster, and stronger than Dikembe ever was right now. Mutumbo was nowhere near the player in his last year in college that Oden is now. Shoot, I'll even say Oden has more on offense right now then Mutumbo pretty much ever had. Do you think Mutumbo ever had the kind of night offensively Oden had in the title game? If he did (pros or college) I never saw it.

[Logan]

Agree on everything you said. I think some people just have a bias towards the big man, especially when there is a freak athlete who puts up huge numbers like 37 and 22 in one game.

[Leonidas]

Just playing around with numbers, comparing Oden to Mutumbo is absurd. As a freshman Mutumbo averaged 3.9 points and 3.3 rebounds pergame, Oden did 15.7 and 9.6. In fact, for his entire college career Mutumbo averaged 9.9 ppg and 8.6 rpg. Sorry, but Oden is way better right now than Mutumbo ever was before he became a pro.

What did Ewing do as a freshman? Well Ewing was very hyped back then. I watched him plenty as a freshmen and he was fabulous. How did his numbers break out compared to Oden? As a freshman in 81-82 Ewing averaged 12.7 ppg and 7.5 rpg and he also had averaged more fouls per game than Oden. In his full four year career Ewing averaged 15.3 ppg and 9.2 rpg, both less than Oden did as a freshman.

Now onto Tim Duncan. As a freshman Duncan had 9.8 ppg and 9.6 rpg. The same on rebounds, much less on points. Give Duncan credit, just as I said previously he had fewer fouls per game than Oden. For a career Duncan had 16.5 ppg and 12.2 rpg. Anyone doubt Oden could match those with three more years?

Finally onto Shaq. As a freshman Shaq 13.9 ppg and 12 rpg. Pretty damn good. Great on the rebounds, less on the offense. Oh, and Shaq fouled a whole lot more than Oden. And Shaq shot 57% from the field compared to Oden's 62%. And it's well established Oden is a better free throw shooter left handed than Shaq is right, at this very moment. Shaq's numbers really took off his sophomore season so this could be an interesting argument same time next year if Oden sticks around.

Bottom line, Oden had as good or a better freshman season in college than all the preeminent big men in the NBA today. To compare him with Mutumbo (a player I have great respect for) is ridiculous. Oden was better as a true freshman than Mutumbo ever was in college.

[Atocep]

I'll toss Alonzo Mourning out there, too, since he's the player Oden reminds me most of.

As a freshman at Georgetown Mourning average 13.3 points, 7.6 rebounds, 4.9 blocks per game. He shot 60% from the floor and 67% from the free throw line. Both he and Oden averaged roughly 28 minutes per game.

Alonzo was a better shot blocker as a freshman, but he was probably the best shot blocker college basketball has ever seen.

[Leonidas]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I'll toss Alonzo Mourning out there, too, since he's the player Oden reminds me most of.

As a freshman at Georgetown Mourning average 13.3 points, 7.6 rebounds, 4.9 blocks per game. He shot 60% from the floor and 67% from the free throw line. Both he and Oden averaged roughly 28 minutes per game.

Alonzo was a better shot blocker as a freshman, but he was probably the best shot blocker college basketball has ever seen.

Yeah, after my rants I thought about mentioning Alonzo. I think defensively he and Oden are the two most polished guys I can recall at that age. But I think Oden will be a better offensive player because I think he's a better athlete and he is bigger already. I'm kinda surprised a lot of reporters are saying Alonzo isn't HoF worthy. Maybe those are the same guys who mistakenly refuse to vote for Artis Gilmore into the HoF.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Bottom line, Oden had as good or a better freshman season in college than all the preeminent big men in the NBA today. To compare him with Mutumbo (a player I have great respect for) is ridiculous. Oden was better as a true freshman than Mutumbo ever was in college.

Yes, you were correct. This was insulting for Mutumbo.

[MikeVic]

Can we delete these poll results?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

As stated before, there aren't that many talented true centers in the league. As good as Durant looks, you just can't pass up Oden in my mind.

Originally Posted by cartman

The Trailblazers had the same line of thinking back in the 1984 draft.

Where do I go to pick up my Nostradumbass award?

[stevew]

There's no way you could have projected this on draft day. Just an unfortunate group of circumstances for the Blazers.

I'd have taken Oden.

[Groundhog]

Yeah, I don't think you can give the Blazers too much grief for their selection. There is no way anyone knew what a disaster his injuries were going to end up being. At that point in time, Oden was the right choice.

[SackAttack]

I think any grief they catch is more likely to be in the context of how good Durant has turned out to be and not whether Oden was the right call. It's easier to go "grass is greener" when the other option turns out to kick all kinds of ass while yours is sitting broken down in the driveway with copious oil leaks.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by stevew

There's no way you could have projected this on draft day. Just an unfortunate group of circumstances for the Blazers.

I'd have taken Oden.

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yeah, I don't think you can give the Blazers too much grief for their selection. There is no way anyone knew what a disaster his injuries were going to end up being. At that point in time, Oden was the right choice.

Most of the arguments werent against Oden though they were strongly in favor of what a great player they thought Durant was. Injuries aside Oden was what a lot of people thought which was an unpolished offensive player with great defensive and rebounding skills.

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Joakim Noah, because I was told by the media last season he was the number one guy then and he can only be better because he won another national title. And his poodle hair is dreamy.

This particularly amused me considering Noah is having the career many projected Oden could have had.

[stevew]

Prediction

Oden gets non tendered by the Blazers. He signs with the Heat for their MLE and suddenly has no health issues. Him, Lebron and wade win 5 straight titles

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by stevew

Prediction

Oden gets non tendered by the Blazers. He signs with the Heat for their MLE and suddenly has no health issues. Him, Lebron and wade win 5 straight titles

Bosh feels left out. Is he on the Clippers at that point?

[stevew]

Bosh got traded to Detroit in my scenario.

[RedKingGold]

Not Greg Oden?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yeah, I don't think you can give the Blazers too much grief for their selection. There is no way anyone knew what a disaster his injuries were going to end up being. At that point in time, Oden was the right choice.

This is still my feeling.

Oden showed enough in the NBA while healthy (or semi-healthy) to demonstrate that he would have been a dominant inside presence on at least one side of the floor, if not both. To my knowledge there was no indication of his knee woes and, as far as I'm aware, the Blazers can't fairly be said to have dropped the ball there. He had a hand injury in High School/College, but again, not related to his knee woes.

Durant is obviously now one of the best in the game and in hindsight it's a slam dunk, but given what we knew in 2007 I still can't fairly blame the Blazers for taking the most physically dominating big guy I've seen since Shaquille O'Neal.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

Oden easily. not only is he better and has more upside, but he plays in the toughest position to fill. As a Rockets fan i can tell you the enourmouse difference in between having a dominant low post player and not having one

its a no brainer, which is why ainge is thinking of taking durant

i felt an urge to complete change the names on this to make myself look better. but clearly im a fool

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

bobby valentine said to stay away from prospects who look fully developed at 20. oden looked 46 at 19.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think it is the opposite.

Durant will give you immedeate scoring but as Oden develops over time I think he could be a Ben Wallace type that can score.

still time. Right?

[stevew]

I wonder if Oden can salvage this enough to even become a Tyson Chandler type. It's probably more likely that he ends up retiring soon, vs ever playing meaningful minutes. He's still only about 25, right?

[korme]

Portland: Where perfectly good knees go to die

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

I wonder if Oden can salvage this enough to even become a Tyson Chandler type. It's probably more likely that he ends up retiring soon, vs ever playing meaningful minutes. He's still only about 25, right?

I don't think we'll ever see him on an NBA court again.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

there's no karma in the universe. oden's bloated corpse should be rotting on okc's bench.

[kingfc22]

Maybe Portland needs to change the type of wood they are playing on before Aldridge comes up lame.

[stevew]

Maybe the third micro fracture will be the charm.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

This is still my feeling.

Oden showed enough in the NBA while healthy (or semi-healthy) to demonstrate that he would have been a dominant inside presence on at least one side of the floor, if not both. To my knowledge there was no indication of his knee woes and, as far as I'm aware, the Blazers can't fairly be said to have dropped the ball there. He had a hand injury in High School/College, but again, not related to his knee woes.

Durant is obviously now one of the best in the game and in hindsight it's a slam dunk, but given what we knew in 2007 I still can't fairly blame the Blazers for taking the most physically dominating big guy I've seen since Shaquille O'Neal.

On June 28, 2007, Oden was selected by the Portland Trail Blazers with the #1 overall pick.

On September 14, 2007, Oden had microfracture surgery on his ailing right knee.
He missed the entire season.

He had microfracture surgery 3 months after the draft.
If they didn't know about his knee, they should have.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Surtt

On June 28, 2007, Oden was selected by the Portland Trail Blazers with the #1 overall pick.

On September 14, 2007, Oden had microfracture surgery on his ailing right knee.
He missed the entire season.

He had microfracture surgery 3 months after the draft.
If they didn't know about his knee, they should have.

How would they ? Should they have made an exploratory surgery on a guy who showed no signs of knee problems ? Should every 7 footer have one from now on ? Or everyone weighing over 250 pounds ?

Even that first problem wasn´t picked up on an MRI and only on an exploratory surgery, only then he got the microfracture surgery.
And you realize that having a microfracture surgery doesn´t mean there was a problem prior to the actual injury, right ? (Well, other than the fact that by definition a 7´1, 270 pound guy is pretty liable to all sorts of problems anyway)

No one really knew anything, not the Sonics/Thunder either who also checked him out if i recall.

It´s just a shame, he really could have been a great player from what he showed when he played a little. Imo he´d have been a 15/12/3 type of guy with great defense and that sort of player would have made the Blazers a contender (definitely if Roy stayed healthy)

[stevew]

From what I've pieced together as a sports fan...

When they look at a guys knee, they generally will find things like a torn meniscus. They fix that all the time in a scope. Sometimes, they get inside and look at the knee and realize that it isn't so minor. On rare occasions the knee joints are so deteriorated that they find basically a bone on bone situation. In order to correct this, they drill micro holes into the bones which cause some bone marrow to leak out. When the knee is sewn back up, this tends to serve as replacement cushioning for the shitty knees. In football guys get Microfracture and can recover(Reggie Bush). In basketball, the recovery process is much longer.

[Ksyrup]

The Fake ESPN @TheFakeESPN
Season-ending knee surgery is the tornado, and Greg Oden is the Oklahoma trailer park.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by stevew

I wonder if Oden can salvage this enough to even become a Tyson Chandler type. It's probably more likely that he ends up retiring soon, vs ever playing meaningful minutes. He's still only about 25, right?

According to Hollinger on the trends of NBA injuries it would be an extreme oddity if he wasnt able to put together 2 complete season.

While one is tempted to think that Oden will never, ever be healthy, history says otherwise. Virtually every player in history, no matter how injury-prone, eventually got through at least a couple of seasons healthy. While it may seem that the only way Oden could do this is if both the court and his opponents were made entirely of rubber, it would not shock me if he was able to play a good chunk of the schedule this season.

This was the ESPN insider report prior to this season.

[jbergey22]

I think the most impressive/underrated part of Durants game that people didnt expect was his finishing ability. He is one of the top finishers near the rim in the game at above 70 percent, right there with Lebron.

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/20...best-finisher/

[Ksyrup]

Still can't help but remember this Onion classic.

Careless Blazers Goofing Around With Basketball Shatter Greg Oden Into Thousand Pieces | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by whomario

How would they ? Should they have made an exploratory surgery on a guy who showed no signs of knee problems ? Should every 7 footer have one from now on ? Or everyone weighing over 250 pounds ?

September 13, 2007
Damaged goods? - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

“Our trainers did say they thought he had somewhat of an issue (with the right knee), but they weren't sure to what extent,” one Western Conference executive said. “I guess we're starting to see now that it’s more serious than some people thought.”

As one high-ranking basketball official with access to several trainers at the Orlando pre-draft camps remembered being told, “There were some things about (Oden’s knee) that were interesting and that if they had a chance (to draft) him, they would have to look a lot closer.”

All in all, one Eastern Conference personnel man said, “It was not a good physical.”

Nope, no signs of knee problems...
I don't have a problem with the Blazers rolling the rolling dice on Odem, but saying the knee problem was out of the blue is a bit revisionist.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

and the blazers resigned him. sunken cost logic. the fear that he may turn out to be serviceable for another team outweighed the evidence.

no ROI for you portland.

[Matthean]

Doesn't Oden have one leg being shorter and than the other? I swear Simmons raised this issue that once he had leg issues, he was basically done and pointed to other big men who had leg injuries and how it shortened their careers.

[Toddzilla]

Drafting a big man with knee problems in basketball is like a baseball team drafting a pitcher with a torn labrum.

[stevew]

Oden was waived by the Blazers today. The dream is over I guess

[stevew]

A rare interview with former no. 1 overall pick Greg Oden about his injury-plagued career - Grantland

Interesting article about Greg Oden.

[hoopsguy]

I thought the link they had within this article, talking about the Portland medical staff, was pretty interesting as well.

Greg Oden? Brandon Roy?: What!?! What Happened? « zigsports

[Logan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I thought the link they had within this article, talking about the Portland medical staff, was pretty interesting as well.

Greg Oden? Brandon Roy?: What!?! What Happened? « zigsports

I don't pretend to know much about the laws when it comes to this, but can a doctor really publish all that information about a patient, star athlete or not?

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I thought the link they had within this article, talking about the Portland medical staff, was pretty interesting as well.

Greg Oden? Brandon Roy?: What!?! What Happened? « zigsports

Jesus, I hope players start "pulling an Eli" and refusing to play for them. Theyve got to wake up.

[Rizon]

How is Darko Trouto doing? I couldn't find his name on basketball-reference.com.

[Passacaglia]

You're on the clock with the #1 pick in the NBA Draft....

I am? Oh man, am I late making this pick. Who's left?

[bhlloy]

I wonder how soon the lawsuit from Oden and possibly Roy against the Trailblazers comes?

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by Logan

I don't pretend to know much about the laws when it comes to this, but can a doctor really publish all that information about a patient, star athlete or not?

is a kinesiologist a real doctor? i suspect not. maybe that explains the resentment from the team docs?

that shits fascinating. slightly ot but to this day i'm convinced the texans should have put tony boselli on ir and let him rehab for a year. you're an expansion team. what's the rush?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I'll go with Durant. Something tells me he'll have the better career.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

is a kinesiologist a real doctor? i suspect not. maybe that explains the resentment from the team docs?

that shits fascinating. slightly ot but to this day i'm convinced the texans should have put tony boselli on ir and let him rehab for a year. you're an expansion team. what's the rush?

Good point on the type of doctor, I honestly didn't even notice what he is.

I suspect the Texans figured that even 50% of Boselli protecting their #1 overall investment in David Carr was better than the other options.