Possible Penguins relocation

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

They know, with the current market for Pens fans, and team pointed upwards, they are guaranteed many sellouts. Plus all the other revenue that comes with a new building (suites, etc). While the rent free building in KC sounds nice, if they are playing to a 60% full building, how long before it is a loss compared to what would have been generated in Pittsburgh?

Couple of points:

1. KC has a building ready to go and the suites are sold out. The team would have to wait 3-4 years at a minimum to get something similar together in Pittsburgh. Judging from the fact that they've dragged their feet this long, even 3-4 years may be an optimistic number.

2. They won't be playing to a 60% full building anytime soon if they move the team to KC. The relocation committee has already got commitments to fill 65% of the seats without a team even in place. The committee and arena management team (which includes people who manage the Staples Arena and have NHL exec experience) fully expect a season ticket base in the 85-90% range. Having lived in Baltimore for the past year, I know the general perception of midwest towns is far from the actual reality. There is a lot of corporate dollars and money along with a city growing at 4-5% clip annually.

3. This city fills Arrowhead for every game for many years despite not having a playoff win in 12 years. The Royals sell 1.6 million tickets in a year for a team that wins 42% of their games. If this city ever got a team like the Pens with the amount of young star power that they have, they'd fall flat on their face with excitement. The NHL has said that KC will likely get an expansion team by 2008-2009. But the powers that be realize that the players that the Pens already have in place make them a much more attractive alternative. The expansion team is just a secondary fall-back at this point.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Couple of points:

1. KC has a building ready to go and the suites are sold out. The team would have to wait 3-4 years at a minimum to get something similar together in Pittsburgh. Judging from the fact that they've dragged their feet this long, even 3-4 years may be an optimistic number.

2. They won't be playing to a 60% full building anytime soon if they move the team to KC. The relocation committee has already got commitments to fill 65% of the seats without a team even in place. The committee and arena management team (which includes people who manage the Staples Arena and have NHL exec experience) fully expect a season ticket base in the 85-90% range. Having lived in Baltimore for the past year, I know the general perception of midwest towns is far from the actual reality. There is a lot of corporate dollars and money along with a city growing at 4-5% clip annually.

3. This city fills Arrowhead for every game for many years despite not having a playoff win in 12 years. The Royals sell 1.6 million tickets in a year for a team that wins 42% of their games. If this city ever got a team like the Pens with the amount of young star power that they have, they'd fall flat on their face with excitement. The NHL has said that KC will likely get an expansion team by 2008-2009. But the powers that be realize that the players that the Pens already have in place make them a much more attractive alternative. The expansion team is just a secondary fall-back at this point.

Guess I am generalzing...my point was though, they know what they have in Pittsburgh. The team was still well supported in 2002-2004, when they were awful.

Pittsburgh is known to them. I believe all your numbers, but it is still a risk to move.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Pittsburgh is known to them. I believe all your numbers, but it is still a risk to move.

Blame your city and state leaders. If the financial deals were the same, this would be over and done with already and the Pens wouldn't be going anywhere.

The Pennsylvania governor is just blowing smoke with his 'we have a better offer than KC' speech. KC is offering a sweetheart of a deal. If it weren't for the history of the franchise in Pittsburgh and the owner who's trying to find a reason to keep the team in Pittsburgh, this team would be moved already. Pittsburgh officials should be thanking their lucky stars that they have someone like Lemieux to even give their city a shot at this point. KC city leaders used to act like the Pittsburgh leaders are now. Thankfully, they've now figured out how important professional teams are to the economy and image of a town.

[stevew]

I hope that the Governor of Philadelphia will help keep the Pens in this state. But I'm really not sure that the jackass is aware that Pittsburgh is actually within his governing region.....

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Blame your city and state leaders. If the financial deals were the same, this would be over and done with already and the Pens wouldn't be going anywhere.

The Pennsylvania governor is just blowing smoke with his 'we have a better offer than KC' speech. KC is offering a sweetheart of a deal. If it weren't for the history of the franchise in Pittsburgh and the owner who's trying to find a reason to keep the team in Pittsburgh, this team would be moved already. Pittsburgh officials should be thanking their lucky stars that they have someone like Lemieux to even give their city a shot at this point. KC city leaders used to act like the Pittsburgh leaders are now. Thankfully, they've now figured out how important professional teams are to the economy and image of a town.

Actually, it should have never gotten to the point of matching the KC deal. The building should have been done about 2 years ago. In all those PG links, you'll see quotes from one politician or another pointing out the "7 years" it's been. Lemieux bought the team in April of 1999 and then said a new building is needed to keep the team here. Promises, lies and 7+ years later, they are still working on it.

Some think the reason Burkle is taking center stage now is because he has zero connection to Pittsburgh, and if he will take much less heat than Lemieux if the team leaves. Others see it as a positive, since he's truly the $$$ in the ownership group, and Mario can be the public face to stir up the controversy.

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Pittsburgh is known to them. I believe all your numbers, but it is still a risk to move.

Pittsburgh is also known to the owners as a place where city/state officials don't do enough for their business

[SteelerFan448]

Arena Deal Could Be Reached This Week

Andy Sheehan
Reporting

(KDKA) PITTSBURGH The on again, off again talks between the Pittsburgh Penguins and government officials are on again.

And now it looks like there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Sources tell KDKA Investigator Andy Sheehan that the two sides are very close to a deal and if all goes well, they could have an announcement in the next few days.

Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl confirmed what sources close to the talks are saying that a deal could be imminent.

"It's my hope that sometime this week we can get back to talks with the Penguins and ultimately reach a deal," said Ravenstahl.

The two sides were actually close to a deal two weeks ago then tempers flared and talks broke off.

However, in the past week, cooler heads have prevailed and the framework of an arena deal will be on the table this week.

"Time is of the essence and we have gone back and forth," said Ravenstahl. "I'm hopeful this week that we will have an answer from the Penguins and hopefully a deal."

That would mean that not only will they two sides agree on the funding of a new arena and the divisions of revenues but also who will develop the Mellon Arena site after the old arena is torn down.

This weekend State Representative Jake Wheatley and some Hill District ministers complained of being shut out of the discussions but Ravenstahl says that will soon change.

"I can ensure the residents of the Hill District that they will be represented at the table and that any development that happens in their community will have their input," said Ravenstahl.

http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_029161459.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sounds like that article was written with some incomplete information. If there was advancement on a new arena, the governor certainly wasn't aware of it. Here's a toned-down version of what's going on. Basically, not a whole lot.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_490868.html

From what I know about the newspaper business, that article title in the previous post probably wasn't selected by the author of the article. Someone probably got a bit overexcited.

[kcchief19]

Forgive the the Pittsburgh media ... they're having a rough couple of weeks with the Steelers head coach hiring fiasco.

My impression reading the KDKA story was that they were getting played again. Both sides have been negotiating extensively through the media. I saw this as Pittsburgh positioning themselves so that if the Penguins leave they can claim that it wasn't them and the team was being unreasonable and walked away from a good deal.

I'll admit I'm biased because I want the Penguins, but I think it's put up or shut up time. Pittsburgh has the proverbial gun to its head. The Kansas City deadline is next week, and while I'm sure we would extend it, I don't think the NHL has any interest in that. If Pittsburgh can't get its act together now, I think that tells you everything you need to know.

Frankly, I think the NHL would be better leaving and returning to the Pittsburgh market once they get their head out of their ass. I firmly believe the city believes the team would never leave, and they can yank them around. We'll see if somebody blinks in the next week.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

My impression reading the KDKA story was that they were getting played again. Both sides have been negotiating extensively through the media. I saw this as Pittsburgh positioning themselves so that if the Penguins leave they can claim that it wasn't them and the team was being unreasonable and walked away from a good deal.

Frankly, I think the NHL would be better leaving and returning to the Pittsburgh market once they get their head out of their ass. I firmly believe the city believes the team would never leave, and they can yank them around. We'll see if somebody blinks in the next week.

I think that most in Pittsburgh agree with your first comment.

I totally agree with your second comment. Even KC was smart enough to not try to bluff to that level with the Royals and the Chiefs. The fact that it's not a done deal yet speaks volumes.

[Ryche]

If hockey can leave Minnesota, it sure as hell can leave Pittsburgh.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Frankly, I think the NHL would be better leaving and returning to the Pittsburgh market once they get their head out of their ass.

That may never happen!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Not sounding good for Pittsburgh. No meetings scheduled for this week and the mayor expects a decision at the end of the week. Seriously, if I was the mayor, I'd be calling Mario every 15 minutes, 24x7. At least make the ownership think you want them to stay and maybe they'll take the worse deal and not leave town......

Pittsburgh mayor expects word from Pens this week
ESPN.com news services


PITTSBURGH -- The city's mayor says he expects to know soon if the Penguins will remain in Pittsburgh and move into a new arena, or leave, most likely for Kansas City, at the end of this season.

"I anticipate that sometime this week we will have an answer," Mayor Luke Ravenstahl told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review on Monday. "There will be some kind of dialogue back and forth this week."

The Tribune-Review reported that Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell and Penguins co-owner Ron Burkle spoke on Monday, but that another face-to-face meeting between the two sides has not been scheduled.


"We're making progress, but there is no deal by any means as of yet," Rendell said Monday of the situation. Asked about Ravenstahl's comments about a decision being made this week, Rendell said, "That could be."

Penguins officials declined to comment, the newspaper reported.


The team's lease at Mellon Arena, the oldest building in the NHL, expires in June. Last week at the NHL All-Star Game in Dallas, team co-owner Mario Lemieux said the time was drawing near for the Penguins to decide whether to stay or to relocate.

The Penguins have not asked the league for permission to move, but have "reserved their right to make a formal relocation application" if they don't get an arena deal, deputy commissioner Bill Daly told the Tribune-Review.


Last week, Rendell said the city and state proposal for a new arena already was the best given any of Pennsylvania's seven major pro sports teams, and he threatened to take his case to the NHL Board of Governors if the Penguins attempted to move.

Lemieux said at the team's negotiating session with Rendell, county and city leaders took a step backward because of a request the team share revenues from a redevelopment of the Mellon Arena site with casino operator Don Barden.


Barden was chosen last month by the state gaming board to build the only slots machine parlor license granted in Pittsburgh. Barden has agreed to contribute $7.5 million per year toward a new arena, but also wants to redevelop the area around Mellon Arena, where the Penguins have played since 1967.

The Sprint Center in Kansas City has offered the Penguins free rent and revenue sharing if they move to the city, which had an NHL team -- the current New Jersey Devils franchise -- in 1974-76.

[14ers]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

3. The Royals sell 1.6 million tickets in a year for a team that wins 42% of their games.

You really shouldn't bring the Royals into this.

2006 KC Attendance 1,372,684


Even the lowly Pittsburgh Pirates managed to sell half a million more tickets than the Royals in 2006.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

[Dr. Sak]

Well on the plus side for Pittsburgh, Mario hasn't talked to the people in KC since their first and only meeting.

I think that the NHL wants to keep the team in Pittsburgh and will force the current owners to take whatever deal the city/state gives them as long as it is some what reasonable. The Pens are right now playing at 95% capacity for each home game. I honestly would be surprised if the Pens would move now.

[SteelerFan448]

Reports now are that as long as the talks continue to progress, they could be done within the next 24 hours and there could be an announcement as soon as Friday. On the otherhand, there are still the possibility of a setback during the talks.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by 14ers

You really shouldn't bring the Royals into this.

2006 KC Attendance 1,372,684


Even the lowly Pittsburgh Pirates managed to sell half a million more tickets than the Royals in 2006.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

Should we point out now or later that the Pirates have a new stadium?

SI

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Should we point out now or later that the Pirates have a new stadium?

SI

Stadium had nothing to do with it.

You should, however, point out that the Pirates hosted the All-Star game and strong-armed their fans to buy season tickets if they wanted a chance to attend it.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Stadium had nothing to do with it.

You should, however, point out that the Pirates hosted the All-Star game and strong-armed their fans to buy season tickets if they wanted a chance to attend it.

Both had something to do with it. New stadiums bring fans. If the team sucks, it won't accelerate attendance as much, but it's better than a sharp poke in the eye.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Both had something to do with it. New stadiums bring fans. If the team sucks, it won't accelerate attendance as much, but it's better than a sharp poke in the eye.

I don't disagree, but the new stadium is six-years old and the novelty of its newness has worn off (although it is a fantastic ballpark). It did cause a significant spike in its first season, when the team went from 1.7M to 2.4M in attendance. But, the Pirates' front office made a terrible PR move after their initial season at PNC Park, as they significantly raised ticket prices (for the second consecutive season) after losing 100 games. The ticket price increase caused a lot of ill will towards ownership and the team, and they did not get the 2-3 year wave of increased attendance that the novelty of a new stadium normally provides.

In the five seasons after PNC's opening season attendance spike, they have been within roughly 5% of the 1.7M they had in their last season at Three Rivers, except for last season, when the All-Star game interest drove their attendance up near 1.9M.

By the way, the on-field product (AKA, the Pirates) are, sadly, not much of a factor, as they have not had a winning record since 1992 and the fan support has grown decidedly apathetic with ownership failing to field a competitive team AND pocketing 10s of millions of dollars in revenue sharing.

[devynd]

As far as I can tell, from living in the Pittsburgh area, the whole Kansas City thing is only a negotiating ploy to get a better deal here. Whether Kansas City's offer is better than Pittsburgh's is irrelevant; all that matters is whether the offer here is good enough to make staying worthwhile. The chief reason for the delay is that the current arena lease doesn't expire until June and the slots licenses weren't granted until the last month or two. (The Pens' partner Isle of Capri would have contributed the entire cost of a new arena, but they didn't get the license; because the Pens had an exclusive deal with IOC -- in the hopes that such a deal would clinch the license for IOC -- they couldn't do much negotiating until after IOC was denied the license.)

Nine years ago the local and state governments pushed through a "Plan B" to use tax money to build a new football stadium and a new baseball park in Pittsburgh, even in the face of public opposition and in the wake of a tax referendum that went down by a 2-1 margin in 10 of 11 counties. There is certainly the political will to do whatever the government feels like doing regardless of what anyone else wants. No one has given any real reason to believe that anything in the past few weeks has been anything but posturing by both sides to get the best deal possible.

Things will be what they will be, but it sounds like Kansas City has some good hockey fans, and if so, it's a shame to see you set yourselves up for disappointment. The Pens aren't going anywhere except the playoffs. And it's about time.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by devynd

Things will be what they will be, but it sounds like Kansas City has some good hockey fans, and if so, it's a shame to see you set yourselves up for disappointment. The Pens aren't going anywhere except the playoffs. And it's about time.

I can see that you're obviously a big Pens fan, but it sounds like you're not fully aware of the situation. KC is going to get a franchise one way or the other. If the Pens don't end up coming to KC, the NHL has all but given one of the two expansion franchises which are expected in 2008 or 2009. The only difference with the Pens is that they'd be here one year earlier and obviously have a roster with some young players already in place.

Also, your exact attitude in believing that this is nothing more than posturing is what has lost many a city a sports franchise. Never assume that they aren't serious. They are and they will move if their needs aren't met. People don't get in a situation where they can lose millions of dollars just because they are really attached to a city. They're invested in that team to make money.

[Swaggs]

Is it fairly common info that there will be expansion in 2008/09? That seems like a pretty odd move for a league that has regressed so much in the past few seasons. Will the NHL ever get a national television deal again?

I am one fan that the NHL lost--not so much out of protest, but rather because I saw that my life went on just fine without following it (I got more interested in NCAA basketball, I guess). I still read up about the Pens as much as I can, but I only see them 3-5 times a year, since I now live out of their viewing area. So, I hope a national TV deal with a Fox or ESPN is on the horizon.

[Suburban Rhythm]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07032/758485-61.stm

Best Jim Mora voice-

"Tulsa? TULSA!?"

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Is it fairly common info that there will be expansion in 2008/09?

I don't think it is by any means a certainty. Bettman and some of the owners would probably be all over it, but Bettman is also possibly on the way out after '08 (his contract ends and there are already rumors of people being contacted about becoming the new commish). I'd say there is a chance of expansion, but I think Mizzou is being a little optimistic at this point.

[14ers]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Is it fairly common info that there will be expansion in 2008/09? That seems like a pretty odd move for a league that has regressed so much in the past few seasons. Will the NHL ever get a national television deal again?

Does this count?

2006-07 NHL season

For the 2006-2007 season, NBC will reportedly broadcast three regional games for nine weekend dates during the regular season. They will also broadcast on ten dates during the playoffs (not including Stanley Cup Finals). The additional broadcast windows are expected to replace the Arena Football League, which NBC dropped after the 2006 season.
The newly monikered NHL on NBC Game of the Week is tentatively scheduled to premiere for a second season January 13, 2007 with three regional games (LA vs. STL, BOS vs. NYR, PIT vs. PHI) at 2:00 p.m. ET. Games will start at various times and various days this season, ranging everywhere from 12:30 to 3:30 during the season (this variation primarily results from NBC's commitments to the PGA Tour and other programming). A few games aired only on the West Coast (and on NHL Center Ice) will begin at 6:00 p.m. ET, although NBC is cutting back on such games this season.
It was also rumored that NBC wanted to broadcast an annual outdoor game (specifically, the New York Rangers vs. the New York Islanders at Yankee Stadium), but this will not happen until at least 2007-08. Having lost rights to the Gator Bowl on New Year's Day to CBS, the possibility of doing a New Year's Day game has increased, assuming NBC renews its broadcast contract.
The NHL on NBC will make a move to Sundays after its season premiere (listed above) for the final eight dates of the season. NBC's nine games amounts to the most U.S. broadcast television coverage the league has had since 1998, on FOX.

[Suburban Rhythm]

BREAKING NEWS...from the other local paper. But, bear in mind, this is the paper that reported Russ Grimm as head coach 2 days prior to Tomlin accepting the job.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_491255.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I don't think it is by any means a certainty. Bettman and some of the owners would probably be all over it, but Bettman is also possibly on the way out after '08 (his contract ends and there are already rumors of people being contacted about becoming the new commish). I'd say there is a chance of expansion, but I think Mizzou is being a little optimistic at this point.

The NHL committee here in KC has been told by the NHL that there is a 90% chance that a team will be in KC for 08-09 and a near certainty that there will be one in 09-10. They were told that it would be first in line for expansion when it occurs. This was as of earlier in the week.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Little less emotion built into this article. Basically says a deal might be coming, but it's anything but done and time is running out. Conspiracy theorists probably would say this is the politicians feeding stuff to make the Pens management look bad if they back out in the end.

http://kdka.com/local/local_story_031155623.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like the 'source' underestimated the ability of Pittsburgh politicians to screw up. If there's one thing that I've learned from this whole situation, it's that Pittsburgh needs to elect a whole new set of city leaders. No deal done yet and there may, in fact, have been a setback in the negotiations.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=194369&hubname=

[Fidatelo]

Mizzou, I find it interesting that you consider the "Penguins in Pittsburgh" deal to be far from certain, and yet at the same time feel the "Team in KC by '09" deal to be a virtual lock.

[14ers]

Originally Posted by 14ers

Does this count?



The additional broadcast windows are expected to replace the Arena Football League, which NBC dropped after the 2006 season.

I can't believe I missed this statement in my own post.

Anyone know where the Arena Football League is going? I know John Elway lost his car dealership deal in denver, did he also lose his football team?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Mizzou, I find it interesting that you consider the "Penguins in Pittsburgh" deal to be far from certain, and yet at the same time feel the "Team in KC by '09" deal to be a virtual lock.

Two totally different situations.

The information concerning the Pens and their deal came straight from TSN.com, who is a very reliable source. That's certainly not my words. The deal is not done at all, contrary to the story this morning. The head of the NHL committee in KC has always openly stated that the Pens deal is 50/50 whether they stay or move to KC. He has also always stated that if the team moves, the blame would definitely be on the Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania leaders and not the Pens ownership. Few would disagree with that statement after 7 years of waiting for an arena.

As far as KC having a team by 09-10, that's directly from Bettman and the NHL leaders regarding an expansion team. KC has been the #1 choice for expansion as soon as the new arena was approved. All KC is doing is trying to grab a team even earlier than that.

All that is direct information. None of that is my opinion whatsoever.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by 14ers

I can't believe I missed this statement in my own post.

Anyone know where the Arena Football League is going?

To ESPN/ABC since I believe Disney (through those outlets) now has part ownership of the league.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FYI......for those that are curious about the NHL 21 committee here in KC, here's the info on them. It's available on the web, so I'm not giving away any private information here.

NHL 21 Address:

Paul McGannon/Tom Rieger
NHL21
1209 W. 66th Terr.
Kansas City, Missouri 64113
Phone: 913-219-7774
Fax: 816-444-3250

Paul McGannon is the one that is in constant contact with the NHL regarding getting a team in KC in the near future. He's also the one that has said that the NHL told him that a team in KC by 09-10 is a near certainly.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Two totally different situations.

The information concerning the Pens and their deal came straight from TSN.com, who is a very reliable source. That's certainly not my words. The deal is not done at all, contrary to the story this morning. The head of the NHL committee in KC has always openly stated that the Pens deal is 50/50 whether they stay or move to KC. He has also always stated that if the team moves, the blame would definitely be on the Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania leaders and not the Pens ownership. Few would disagree with that statement after 7 years of waiting for an arena.

As far as KC having a team by 09-10, that's directly from Bettman and the NHL leaders regarding an expansion team. KC has been the #1 choice for expansion as soon as the new arena was approved. All KC is doing is trying to grab a team even earlier than that.

All that is direct information. None of that is my opinion whatsoever.

In regards to the Penguins, I agree with you, nothing is done so who knows.

In regards to expansion, you are ignoring the fact that no one has made a decision on expansion. I agree, if the NHL expands KC is candidate #1 for a team. That's a big 'if' though, because just like with the Penguins situation, nothing has been finalized.

I just think you are looking at it through slightly rose-colored glasses and I wanted to point it out.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I just think you are looking at it through slightly rose-colored glasses and I wanted to point it out.

Fair enough.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

PA governor now stating that deal is not close, though they have submitted a revised offer. This is the same guy that said he was very optimistic earlier in the week.

***insert government officials finding way to blame ownership when they leave***

http://post-gazette.com/pg/07032/758616-100.stm

[duff88]

Anyone else watched the Canadiens-Penguins game tonight? It was probably the game of the year; it looked like a playoffs matchup and the crowd at the Mellon Arena was electric, simply one of the most intense and excited crowd I've seen in the entire year.

As someone on HFBoards said, this game needs to be taped and shipped nationwide through the US.

[devynd]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

KC is going to get a franchise one way or the other.
[snip]

Also, your exact attitude in believing that this is nothing more than posturing is what has lost many a city a sports franchise. Never assume that they aren't serious. They are and they will move if their needs aren't met. People don't get in a situation where they can lose millions of dollars just because they are really attached to a city. They're invested in that team to make money.

My attitude isn't really relevant, as I am not part of the negotiations. However, I take the negotiations seriously and I believe that both sides do as well. My point is this: when Mario visited KC, his chief purpose (as I see it) was to push for a better deal in Pittsburgh by showing that the Pens are serious about moving if they don't get a deal to their liking. In other words, Kansas City is getting used. I've seen it happen to other cities before, particularly Tampa/St. Pete in baseball and Jacksonville in football; fortunately they got expansion teams eventually.

I don't assume that the Pens are irrevocably attached to Pittsburgh -- although it should be clear that they certainly have no attachment to any other city. What I do see is that the two sides (the Pens and local/state government) have both the means and the will to make a deal, and especially with the league coming out in support of the Pens staying, and what a big PR disaster it would be for Crosby's team to leave town, there is sufficient pressure on both sides to ensure that they won't walk away from the table if anything workable is there.

I am in no position to say that a move is impossible, but I can certainly say with complete confidence that fans in Kansas City should not be putting their hopes into it. The chance of moving is nowhere near 50%; it might be as little as 1%. If and when Kansas City gets a team of any kind, so much the better for the fans there, but you're only setting yourself up for disappointment if you're so strongly expecting the arrival of a team that probably isn't coming.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by duff88

Anyone else watched the Canadiens-Penguins game tonight? It was probably the game of the year; it looked like a playoffs matchup and the crowd at the Mellon Arena was electric, simply one of the most intense and excited crowd I've seen in the entire year.

As someone on HFBoards said, this game needs to be taped and shipped nationwide through the US.

I was there...and yes, it was, to use your word, electric.
And I almost sold my tickets...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by devynd

I don't assume that the Pens are irrevocably attached to Pittsburgh -- although it should be clear that they certainly have no attachment to any other city. What I do see is that the two sides (the Pens and local/state government) have both the means and the will to make a deal, and especially with the league coming out in support of the Pens staying, and what a big PR disaster it would be for Crosby's team to leave town, there is sufficient pressure on both sides to ensure that they won't walk away from the table if anything workable is there.

I am in no position to say that a move is impossible, but I can certainly say with complete confidence that fans in Kansas City should not be putting their hopes into it. The chance of moving is nowhere near 50%; it might be as little as 1%. If and when Kansas City gets a team of any kind, so much the better for the fans there, but you're only setting yourself up for disappointment if you're so strongly expecting the arrival of a team that probably isn't coming.

Just to correct a couple of inaccuracies in your points. First, if the government had the means to get a deal done, any chance they might have got it done in the last 7 years that this has been an issue? It's one thing to play hardball, but when you're doing it for 7 years while handing the other franchises new stadiums, that's not going to excite the Pens management. Also, the NHL has been quite clear that they are not going to force the Pens to do anything. They have clearly stated to both the KC group and the Pens that they are free to move if no deal is done by the soft deadline of February 4th that was put into place.

50/50 means there's just as good of a chance of them staying as there is going. Certainly that's not 'strongly expecting'. Also, I do find it amusing that there have been sites and people in Pittsburgh attacking KC for trying to land the team. KC just wants to have hockey. If KC didn't step in to offer the team an alternative, you can be assured that another city would. The Pens fans should point their venom at the city and state leaders, not KC (This comment was in no way intended for anyone in this thread as a put-down as it hasn't happened here).

[Suburban Rhythm]

http://www.cafepress.com/helpthepens.98803805

Proudly wearing this shirt to work today--
With no offense to Mizzou b-ball!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by 14ers

Anyone know where the Arena Football League is going? I know John Elway lost his car dealership deal in denver, did he also lose his football team?

As already pointed out, the AFL is just switching networks. As for the health of the AFL, it's doing just fine. Elway's team will contend as always, Bon Jovi's team is going to be on television more than President Bush, and the VooDoo is back.

Go AFL!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

http://www.cafepress.com/helpthepens.98803805

Proudly wearing this shirt to work today--
With no offense to Mizzou b-ball!

LOL! That's what I'm talking about. I'm sure this entrepeneur has similar 'Houston', 'Winnipeg', 'Hamilton', and 'Oklahoma City' shirts ready to go in case the tide changes.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Still no deal. Interesting that Pittsburgh city leaders would like to have meetings next week, but Pens owners have balked thus far. The Pens said they would give KC a go/no go by Sunday. Should be interesting with no deal in place at this point.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07033/758870-61.stm

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Still no deal. Interesting that Pittsburgh city leaders would like to have meetings next week, but Pens owners have balked thus far. The Pens said they would give KC a go/no go by Sunday. Should be interesting with no deal in place at this point.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07033/758870-61.stm

I'm in Pittsburgh...but I've given up trying to follow it already. Tired of hearing the politicians tell us how hard they are working now, after 7 years of nothing, but tired, too, of the ownership group telling us how upset they are, etc etc.

So many wildly conflicting reports, someone just let me know when the decision is made. Until then, I'll just enjoy a team playing REALLY well right now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Source within ownership group now saying that Penguins owners are looking to accelerate talks with Kansas City. I'm sure some Pittsburgh fans will just say they're using KC to get a deal, but at some point, it becomes a situation where Pittsburgh really needs to step to the plate or the Pens are walking. Take it from a fan in a city who's lost pro teams in the past.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07033/758954-61.stm

[Pumpy Tudors]

If I've learned anything from all this, it's the reasons not to negotiate through the media. We've gotten 200 different reports over the past month, and, frankly, we still don't know shit.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

If I've learned anything from all this, it's the reasons not to negotiate through the media. We've gotten 200 different reports over the past month, and, frankly, we still don't know shit.

Oh, I think you can read a lot into the latest article. The owners are now throwing out one final bluff of sorts. They're implying they're serious about moving and that Pittsburgh has to improve their offer. We went from the Pittsburgh people meeting with the owners early next week to the KC people meeting with the owners early next week. Pittsburgh probably has one last chance to improve their offer. The Pitt owners would have already accepted the KC deal if they weren't willing to give Pittsburgh leaders one more shot.