2005-06 Soccer Thread

[Critch]

I read about the Salzburg thing on another website, pretty sad. Name changes seem to be fairly common in Austria though, Not that long since Austria Salzburg were Casino Salzburg.

It's not all bad though, Sturm Graz in Austria are apparently officially now called Puntigamer Sturm Graz after an Austrian beer, and if they hadn't done that I would never have gone to the Puntigamer website and discovered the greatest German language drinking song ever

hxxp://www.puntigamer.at/

[Critch]

I refuse to let this thread die

So, anybody see the Arsenal second penalty at the weekend? One of the most creative missed penalties of all time.

Other than that, boring boring Chelsea.

[FrogMan]

Well, I could start posting in this thread since I've now found my new most favourite TV channel: FSW

Just a couple of weeks ago, I saw that my digital TV provider had just started including that channel in our regular listing. My new favourite TV show is the "EPL Review Show" that runs on Sunday night, simply an awesome hour with only highlights, wow...

Well, that's all for now...

FM

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

Well, I could start posting in this thread since I've now found my new most favourite TV channel: FSW

Just a couple of weeks ago, I saw that my digital TV provider had just started including that channel in our regular listing. My new favourite TV show is the "EPL Review Show" that runs on Sunday night, simply an awesome hour with only highlights, wow...

Well, that's all for now...

FM

I'd also recommend Fox Football Friday (Friday evenings). Basically a cheesily produced soccer show with two dorky guys sitting in a bar discussing the upcoming weekend games and any soccer related issues. Goofy, but I like it for some reason.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Critch

So, anybody see the Arsenal second penalty at the weekend? One of the most creative missed penalties of all time.

Dola,

I was really hoping they would lose/tie the game on account of that missed penalty ... but there's no justice in the world.

BTW - I'm increasingly having a love/hate relationship w/ my Liverpool team. Every time they win in Europe I cheer, every time they look like crap in the premiership I curse. You think Chelsea is boring .... we've got 4 strikers (for about 40MM pounds) who can't score a goal to save their lives.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by moriarty

I'd also recommend Fox Football Friday (Friday evenings). Basically a cheesily produced soccer show with two dorky guys sitting in a bar discussing the upcoming weekend games and any soccer related issues. Goofy, but I like it for some reason.

oh, thanks for the recommendation. I'll have to see when it's on cause I'm usually out of the house on Friday evening. The review show is nice since they have it on Sunday from 8 to 9 or something like that, when the wife is sleeping and I don't have access to the computer, yet kids are either sleeping, or playing by themselves

FM

[Young Drachma]

Anyone know what the deal is with Freddy Adu and whether he's warranted in bitching or if he's just becoming a spoiled athlete? I wasn't sure what to make of it.

[ISiddiqui]

Whether he is or isn't, MLS better watch out. He's close to the age where he can just jump ship to Europe. Or maybe part of this is preparing for that.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Anyone know what the deal is with Freddy Adu and whether he's warranted in bitching or if he's just becoming a spoiled athlete? I wasn't sure what to make of it.

As a DC United fan, as I see it, there are two sides to the Adu coin.
1) He's a superstar player in terms of popularity. He doesn't get play time, fans get upset, they stop coming to games, team loses revenue, etc etc. That's not good.

2) He hasn't been playing well lately. Period. The most recent few games I've seen him in, he was downright dreadful. He wasn't keeping up with the play, he wasn't getting to the ball on passes, wasn't distributing the ball well (bad passes) and if he decided to hang on to the ball, he would dribble into a veritable pack of defenders and lose the ball there. That's just not good soccer, which doesn't help the team win, which means they don't win championships, so fans get upset and stop coming to games, so team loses revenue, etc etc.

Personally I think he's being a whiny baby and if he really thinks it's time to move on, so be it, just do it already. He's not getting a lot of play time right now because though he's good, he's not playing well and there are other DCU players that are playing better. It's not rocket science to figure out that you play the players who are playing better if you want to win...

Just my $0.02. I side with Coach Nowak on this one.

/tk

[SirFozzie]

Guh, you're a Dog Crap United fan, tk?

I liked you so much too..

(Just teasing ya )

Adu was whiny, but some of the details coming out about Nowak, who's insisting that Adu apologize to the full team after players told Adu that no apology was necessary.. urgh.. no good guys in this one.

[Neuqua]

As a Chicago Fire supporter, Nowak can do no wrong.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by moriarty

BTW - I'm increasingly having a love/hate relationship w/ my Liverpool team. Every time they win in Europe I cheer, every time they look like crap in the premiership I curse. You think Chelsea is boring .... we've got 4 strikers (for about 40MM pounds) who can't score a goal to save their lives.

I don't really think Chelsea are boring, I just think Chelsea winning and running away with the league is boring. Though they didn't win this week, so my timing wasn't very good. Chelsea are worth watching just to see Makelele, one of the true top class players around at the moment, everything he does just oozes calmness and a remarkable reading of the game.

Liverpool, on the other hand, are very boring

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Anyone know what the deal is with Freddy Adu and whether he's warranted in bitching or if he's just becoming a spoiled athlete? I wasn't sure what to make of it.

IMO - Adu isn't entirely in the wrong, but his statements show more frustration than anything. Adu has been very streaky, he has a game where he looks great followed by a game where he looks like a 16 year old. In his defense, you could argue that regular playing time (starting every game) would make him more consistent. Also in his defense, his starting/non-starting seems somewhat random. You would think he would be rewarded for playing a good game with a start next game, and penalized for a bad game by not starting the next game, etc... It doesn't normally work that way though. As Adu pointed out, he was MLS player of the week one week and not even starting the next game. Not a lot of logic to some his starts/subs appearances.

On the other end of the stick ... Adu has been very inconsistent. When he's off, he clearly doesn't belong in their starting eleven. Adu also has made comments about how not starting consistently has hurt his chances for making the World Cup team in 2006. This is clearly silly as having watched him in Holland for the Under 19 (I think it was 19?) championships ... he really struggled. I can't imagine him have a legitimate case to make the WC team.

I think Freddy is frustrated because his development has stalled. I fully expect him to get sent to NY next year and make a jump to Europe as soon as he is old enough (although i think his suitors over there will decline unless he progresses more in the next couple of years).

[daedalus]

Not sure how many of y'all are really interested but here's a pretty spiffy highlight of Titi's second goal [*warning* - file is 7.4mb] against Sunderland this week. I'm obviously biased but I thought it was a darn spiffy looking goal.

Also, pretty impressive to look at was this miss [*warning* - file is 4.5mb]. Even if one gets the sense that it was a bit too damn cheeky and if he would have just brought the ball down, he would have had a one-on-one against the keeper and probably had a fairly easy one to go on.

[GoldenEagle]

Did anyone catch that Chasetown-Oldham game? I was hoping for the upset. Chasetown just could not pull it off. Chris Day was the starting keeper for Oldham. If you read FM's dynasty, you should know him. Mark Hughes sounds real familar as well.

Chasetown is a part of some lower-league. I think it is two divisions below the Conference North/South but I am not sure.

[Critch]

So Chelsea aren't unbeatable after all. That's nice.

Fletcher was trying to head the ball back across goal and got luck though, if you ask me. RvN was lurking over there. And it was some desperation defending for the last 30 minutes or so, changed days when a team can go to Old Trafford and have Man Utd scrambling to hold on for the victory.

Don't know if everybody caught the fallout from Roy Keane's interview on MUTV last week, he was a bit outspoken about some of his teammates. So outspoken that the interview was pulled and not shown. Alledgedly he named a number of players who were not good enough to play for Man Utd (Richardson, Alan Smith, Fletcher, O'Shea, Liam Miller) and then got stuck into Rio Ferdinand for acting like a superstar and taking things easy (something about it taking more than 20 good minutes against Spurs to be a superstar). Probably mainly true, but maybe not good for team morale for him to say it in such a way. They got the win today though, so maybe it worked.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Did anyone catch that Chasetown-Oldham game?

Yeah, I caught it. Not a bad game, definetly not the worst I've seen this weekend (that honor goes to the M'gladbach v Hamburg game this morning, which stunk even more than the Lazio v Inter game yesterday). The small crowd and the microphones near the field of play showed that while the players on show might not be the best players in the world, they can swear with the best of them

The tie might be the best result Chasetown could hope for, a replay at Oldham should bring them in more cash than they normally see in a season. Could make the club financially secure for a few seasons.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Did anyone catch that Chasetown-Oldham game? I was hoping for the upset. Chasetown just could not pull it off. Chris Day was the starting keeper for Oldham. If you read FM's dynasty, you should know him. Mark Hughes sounds real familar as well.

Chasetown is a part of some lower-league. I think it is two divisions below the Conference North/South but I am not sure.

The difference between Oldham and Chasetown was SEVEN divisions.

Even in the 100+ year history of the FA CUp, no team has ever pulled off such a differential upset

[SirFozzie]

Oldham are in League 1..

League Two
Conference National
Conference Regional

Northern Premier/Southern Premier/Isthmien Premier
Norhtern/Southern/Isthmien First division
15 Feeder leagues, one of which is the Midland Football Alliance, which Chasetown is currently 14th in that league.

[GoldenEagle]

That is pretty amazing stuff. I wonder if those guys knew they were watched in the United States. They could have won too, if not from a great save from Chris Day.

[Critch]

The replay of the Oldham v Chasetown tie was this afternoon. No fairytale upset though, Oldham won 4-0. Still a nice earner for Chasetown.

[AlexB]

Breaking news: Roy Keane has left Man Utd by mutual consent, as his position has become untenable after his recent criticisms of certain players (rumoured to include Darren Fletcher, John O'Shea, Alan Smith, Liam Miller)

Appoarently while the infamous interview was not released to the public, it was played to the team, and Keane stood by his comments.

As such, it's hardly surprising that his position has become untenable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...td/4449396.stm

[Mac Howard]

Just read the reports myself. I'm stunned!

Whether it's because of the criticism we don't know - I suspect the bbc is merely trying to make sense of this with Keane and Utd publicly insisting on what a wonderul club/servant Utd/Keane has been. There's also a report of a bust-up between Keane and Ferguson this week in which Keane walked out.

[Critch]

Wonder where he'll end up next? There have been constant rumors that he wants to sign for Glasgow Celtic to end his career there, but early indications are that Gordon Strachan (the new Celtic manager) isn't interested. Keane would be too expensive on the salary front, plus Strachan is trying to turn Celtic into more of a fast passing team so Keane wouldn't fit that style so well. They've already got Neil Lennon as their immobile aging midfield anchor.

(edit to save dola - Early rumors are that Keane threw a punch at Sir Awex, hence the early departure. Probably just a rumor, but not really out of character.)

[Crapshoot]

Wow. End of an era. Didn't always like the man, but impossible not to respect him. The single player most responsible for United's success over the last 12 years. Best 3.75 million pounds Ferguson ever spent.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, I understand the Keane/ManU thing in terms of their place in English football reasonably well I think, but I'm wondering ... what would be an American sport parallel for this? I first thought of something involving the Yankees but they've always got some sort of turmoil going on. Next thought was Favre taking a poke at his head coach ... IF his coach was Vince Lombardi.

Anybody who understands this better wanna come up with a more fitting parallel?

[Sadalia]

I can't think of any close parallels to Keane in American sports, but add to Favre a violent temper expressed both on and off the field and, recently at least, a significant lack of respect for his younger teammates and your analogy might come fairly close. Though you'd have to make Lombardi a little more prone to purple-faced rages, as well.

Keane has looked constantly on the verge on snapping for a while now. If he wants to keep playing I'm sure a club will pick him up, but I wouldn't want him on my team. Of course, chances of him signing for Aberdeen are pretty slim.

[Mac Howard]

To describe it as a "violent temper" is to grossly over-simplify it. He's a driven player who has enormous iinfluence on the commitment and effort of his colleagues. His leadership more than anything else is what Utd will miss and what they'll find hardest to replace.

[Sadalia]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

To describe it as a "violent temper" is to grossly over-simplify it. He's a driven player who has enormous iinfluence on the commitment and effort of his colleagues. His leadership more than anything else is what Utd will miss and what they'll find hardest to replace.

I agree he has those qualities; I think Favre does too, and my post was a comparison of the two. The temper is one of the significant differences between them.

[AlexB]

If Rodney Harrison had been at the Pats for a few more years, and they had had success all that time, would have been a similar scenario: used to be a dirty player - now is physical, but a veteran leader.

The main problems in finding an NFL analogy are that there have been no teams constantly at the top as long as Man U, and few players at a single team for 12 years like Roy Keane. Harrison's the best I got,

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

If Rodney Harrison had been at the Pats for a few more years, and they had had success all that time, would have been a similar scenario: used to be a dirty player - now is physical, but a veteran leader.

The main problems in finding an NFL analogy are that there have been no teams constantly at the top as long as Man U, and few players at a single team for 12 years like Roy Keane. Harrison's the best I got,

I think hockey could provide a comparison. Maybe Mark Messier on the old Edmonton Oilers or Rangers teams.

[Galaxy]

What's the deal with Henry? Will Arsenal try to move him next year for a fee, if they can't get him sign a new deal?

Also, ManU seems ready to make the defender from Bayern Munichen (forgot his name)the highest paid player in the Premiership next summer.

[Katon]

Midfielder. Michael Ballack. Who's not really a direct replacement for Keane stylistically, but is still the best midfielder available, so this news probably makes the transfer even more likely.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Sadalia

Though you'd have to make Lombardi a little more prone to purple-faced rages, as well.

So ... Bill Parcells with Lombardi's prestige then.

[SirFozzie]

Wow.. a friend tipped me to a site where a brave intrepid soul tracks the average home attendance for every single team in English Football (in the semi-pro leagues and up).

The breakaway ManYoo Fans who created FC United Of Manchester? They have their club in 92nd place in all of English soccer in average attendance.. ahead of a couple League Two teams and most of the Conference (including, sadly my Cambridge United). Just having FC United come to your team For a North West Counties Division 2 game, can boost your TOTAL attendance for the year by 200%. Sheesh.

The Official List from 1-534.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Wow.. a friend tipped me to a site where a brave intrepid soul tracks the average home attendance for every single team in English Football (in the semi-pro leagues and up).

The breakaway ManYoo Fans who created FC United Of Manchester? They have their club in 92nd place in all of English soccer in average attendance.. ahead of a couple League Two teams and most of the Conference (including, sadly my Cambridge United). Just having FC United come to your team For a North West Counties Division 2 game, can boost your TOTAL attendance for the year by 200%. Sheesh.

The Official List from 1-534.

Gotta admire the hardcore support at Weston St Johns, Bookham and British American Tobacco Sports - season lows for all three the grand total of two!

They would have had a gateman, maybe a steward and maybe someone selling tea/burgers: there was a good chance that there were more staff than spectators - and they still had to queue for 20 minutes to use the toilet at half time - go figure

[Abe Sargent]

Hello Bolton.

-Anxiety

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So ... Bill Parcells with Lombardi's prestige then.

Pretty much. Heck, thing of Alex Ferguson as Tom Landry in Dallas - and Roy Keane is Roger Staubach. Except he wasn't the sexy star, but the inspirational midfield leader.

[Icy]

Big bad news in Spanish La Liga, Raul from R.Madrid broke his knee and said bye to the rest of the season. This is his first big injury in his career.

[daedalus]

Ow. I like Raul.

[kingfc22]

Will Raul be ready for the WC?

[AlexB]

Sad news: one of the players considered by many to be alongside Pele (including by Pele himself) as the greatest player eve, George Best is in his final hours.

After a life struggle against alcoholism, and diminishing health, although he pulled through a near fatal lung infection last month, he has relapsed and the doctor says he is extremely unlikely to see it through tomorrow.

Although I am not old enough to have ever seen him play live, his highlight reel is pretty amazing, and despite suffering a period of ridicule for his drunkeness, over the last few years he has refound the respect of the sports media.

I had the opportunity to sit at the same 10-seat table as him at a sportsman's dinner a few years back, and he was sober, funny and intelligent: nothing like the tabloid image he had been given, at least on that one occasion.

[There are still many who callously are saying that because he has had a liver transplant and by all accounts occasionally fell off the wagon, that he deserves to die??? FWIW I really don't get this - how can people wish this upon anyone, especially somebody that 99.99% of those saying this have never met the man and cannot say with any certainty what he has/hasn't done?]

Whatever the truth, George Best is/was/will always be footballing legend, and one of the all-time greats. He will be missed.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Will Raul be ready for the WC?

Nobody is sure, he will be recovered from the injury... but probably not in good form.

[Super Ugly]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Sad news: one of the players considered by many to be alongside Pele (including by Pele himself) as the greatest player eve, George Best is in his final hours.

After a life struggle against alcoholism, and diminishing health, although he pulled through a near fatal lung infection last month, he has relapsed and the doctor says he is extremely unlikely to see it through tomorrow.

Although I am not old enough to have ever seen him play live, his highlight reel is pretty amazing, and despite suffering a period of ridicule for his drunkeness, over the last few years he has refound the respect of the sports media.

I had the opportunity to sit at the same 10-seat table as him at a sportsman's dinner a few years back, and he was sober, funny and intelligent: nothing like the tabloid image he had been given, at least on that one occasion.

[There are still many who callously are saying that because he has had a liver transplant and by all accounts occasionally fell off the wagon, that he deserves to die??? FWIW I really don't get this - how can people wish this upon anyone, especially somebody that 99.99% of those saying this have never met the man and cannot say with any certainty what he has/hasn't done?]

Whatever the truth, George Best is/was/will always be footballing legend, and one of the all-time greats. He will be missed.

Very sad indeed, and I have no interest in football. Not wishing to sound dippy, but I hope he finds peace. I was driving home from work this evening and heard the doctor's statement on Radio 4 ... I dunno, I just felt like it wasn't necessary. I know that George Best is/was a legend to so many people, but it seemed a little undignified to me, to be hearing his condition relayed like that.

And all this comes just as we get our 24-hour licencing laws ...

[Mac Howard]

I was privileged to see Best play live. I recall a shudder of expectation would go through the Old Trafford crowd whenever he was on the ball. There was something simply magical about his play.

Fortunately, in time, he will be remembered by all soccer fans for what he did on the field and not for the manner of his death.

Glazer, Keane and now Best. It's not been a great year for Utd fans

[Critch]

Not sure if this would be best in here or in the FM2006 thread.

One of the documents that Jose Mourinho uses to prepare for games has been leaked onto the internet, it's from the recent Chelsea v Newcastle Utd game and is a breakdown on how Newcastle play from one of his scouts (Andre Vilas Boas, apparently).

Main points are that Boumsong is a disaster waiting to happen and Shea Given is seriously inconsistent, but there's a lot of stuff that isn't obvious too

5 page pdf, full of notes and diagrams. Interesting stuff.

hxxp://www.badongo.com/file.php?file=Chelsea+Briefing+of+NUFC__2005-11-29_19-11-2005.pdf

[AlexB]

Two stunning incidents in the lower echelons of English football today:

QPR goalkeeper Simon Royce was attacked by a fan after the final whistle: Royce is big enough that it was basically a wrestling match in the net, although the fan got a couple of punches in. The stewards were just stood there watching though! It only got stopped as players and coaches from both sides rushed to help Royce, at which would a couple of stewards obviously felt strength in numbers and joined in trying to stop the guy and another who came on to the pitch at the same time as the rest of the players came to the scene. No-one was hurt at all, but this could have been scary - Stoke fans are absolute nutters.

Even worse than this, in the Northampton/Stevenage FA Cup 2nd round match, the cameras clearly caught a row between the two sides' goalkeeper coaches: as they were surrounded by fellow coaches, the Stevenage coach (Lionel Perez) did the old two fingers into the eyes of Dave Watson. The guy deserves to be banned for life tbh, no matter what the provocation: at least if you're gonna row with the other team, be a man and throw a punch - don't stick your fingers in someone's eyes: that is bang out of order.

Police are investigating both incidents.

[terpkristin]

Both of those stories are absolutely crazy, JRS!

I can't believe the stewards didn't jump in to protect Royce.

Those types of things should NOT be a part of soccer/football. That's just absurd.

/tk

[SirFozzie]

and more fun stuff from the wacky world of footy.. Two teams both took a lap of honor as champions in Brazil today. It's up to the courts to decide..

Court throws Brazilian league finale in to chaos

RIO DE JANEIRO, Dec 4 (Reuters) - Corinthians claimed the Brazilian championship in chaotic circumstances on Sunday, despite losing their final game 3-2 at Goias and a court injunction declaring the competition sub judice.

The Brazilian Football Confederation (CBF) proclaimed them 2005 champions on its official website and the team completed a lap of honour while thousands of Corinthians fans in Sao Paulo celebrated.

However Internacional, who finished second after losing 1-0 to Coritiba, said they were the legitimate champions and also completed a lap of honour after their match.

Corinthians finished with 81 points from 42 games, three more than Internacional, in a competition marred by a match-fixing scandal involving referee Edilson Pereira de Carvalho.

Carvalho, who officiated at 11 matches during the competition, was banned for life after admitting he had taken money from a gambling ring to swing results.

In October, the Brazilian Sporting Tribunal (STJD) ordered the 11 games be replayed amid protests from Internacional, who argued that most of the fixtures refereed by Carvalho were unaffected by the scandal.

Corinthians, who played in two of Carvalho's games and lost both, picked up an extra four points in the replays.

Internacional were involved in one of Carvalho's games, winning both the original and the replay.

Had the original results stood, Internacional would have won the championship by a point.

Earlier on Sunday, a judge in the city of Porto Alegre ruled in favour of an Internacional supporter who went to court against the STJD's decision to replay the 11 games.

The judge, Mauro Borba, ruled that the STJD's decision needed to be re-examined and was only provisional. Corinthians dismissed the injunction.

"They forgot to do their part and gave us the championship," said Corinthians coach Antonio Lopes, referring to Internacional's defeat.

"We won these four points on the pitch. They're trying to spoil our conquest but they won't do it."

Internacional goalkeeper Clemer disagreed: "Everyone in Brazil is aware who the real champions are and that is Internacional."

Striker Fernandao said: "Unfortunately, a marvellous championship is going to be decided off the field."

Coach Muricy Ramalho added: "Corinthians are trying to pass over the law."

Goias took the lead just before halftime through Paulo Baier before goals by Argentine forward Carlos Tevez and Coelho put Corinthians ahead.

Goias, however, hit back with goals from Souza and substitute Romerito to win an entertaining but rough game marred by more than 60 fouls and a Corinthians fan who ran on to the field to hug Tevez.

A second-minute penalty scored by Alcimar gave Coritiba their win over Internacional.

Despite their victory, Coritiba will join Paysandu, Atletico Mineiro and Brasiliense in the second division next year if the present positions stand.

Thirty-nine-year-old striker Romario finished as the championship's leading scorer after striking twice, including one penalty, in Vasco da Gama's 3-1 win over Parana.

Brazil's 1994 World Cup striker finished with 22 goals, one more than Paysandu's Robson who failed to hit the target in his side's 4-1 defeat by Flamengo.

Palmeiras joined Corinthians, Internacional, Goias in next year's Libertadores Cup when they beat Fluminense 3-2 to finish fourth.

Fluminense, who began the day in fourth spot needing only a draw to qualify for the Cup, led 2-1 before a Dejan Petkovic own goal and a Correa free kick which was misjudged by goalkeeper Kleber.

[DaddyTorgo]

hxxp://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=351498&cc=5901

Man U out of the Champions League in the Group Stage!! WOOHOO!!