The Soccer Thread

[ice4277]

Liverpool/Juventus on ESPN2 tomorrow.

You think crowd control is bad in Europe, check out some of the stuff that has happened in Africa over the last few years. Pretty appalling, about 75 years behind in terms of their organization/crowd control. I'm still surprised they were awarded the 2010 World Cup.

[SirFozzie]

The Wikipedia article on the Heysel Disaster:

The Heysel Stadium disaster was an event that took place at the 1985 football European Cup final at the Heysel Stadium in Brussels, Belgium.

On May 29, 1985, Liverpool played Juventus in the European Cup final. In a widely criticized move, the Belgian authorities had allocated a section of the ground to neutral fans. This was an idea opposed by Liverpool and Juventus, as it would easily provide an arena for fans of both clubs to obtain tickets from Belgian ticket touts outside the ground and evade the segregation measures.

A flimsy wire fence had been erected to segregate the Liverpool fans from the neutral area. A contingent of Liverpool fans began to stampede towards the Juventus fans—some Liverpool fans alleged that this was a response to the act of throwing rocks and other missiles by Juventus fans—leading to the collapse of a retaining wall. In the panic that ensued many people were trampled or crushed resulting in the death of 39 people (1 Belgian and 38 Italian).

It was felt that to abandon the game would incite further trouble, and the match eventually kicked off. Juventus won 1-0 with a penalty from Michel Platini.

There has never been an inquiry into the causes of the disaster. It is widely suspected that the root cause of the disaster was the events of the 1984 final, when Liverpool had played AS Roma in Rome (the venue for the Final was picked months in advance, before it was known who would be playing). The English club had won the match, but their supporters were attacked afterwards by violent elements of Italian ultras: many others were locked out of hotels and abandoned by their coach drivers who were supposed to be taking them to the airport. The police were reportedly unwilling to help and the Liverpool fans had to seek refuge in the British embassy. This treatment had led to various hooligan firms setting aside their differences for the chance to collectively settle the score with another Italian club, and their presence could easily have combined with poor police tactics.

As a direct result of this event, The Football League banned Liverpool from participating in European competitions indefinitely, and all other English clubs for five years [1] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/768142.stm) - a move which UEFA ratified (many believe that The Football League acted first to avoid a heavier punishment from UEFA). The length of Liverpool's ban was eventually set at ten years, though this was later reduced to seven. Juventus were also banned from European competition for one year for their fans' part in the events that led to the disaster. The Heysel stadium itself has since been completely rebuilt, and is now called the King Baudouin Stadium.

Juventus and Liverpool were drawn together in the quarterfinals of the 2005 Champions League, in the 20th anniversary year of the tragedy. This will be the first time the clubs have met in a competitive match since Heysel, although they have played several friendly matches in the meantime. Liverpool won the first leg of the encounter 2-1 with goals by Sami Hyypiä and Luis Garcia.

[SirFozzie]

The backlash against the idiots has begun

ROME -- Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi urged a crackdown on soccer violence on Wednesday after the latest outbreak of hooliganism left Inter Milan facing heavy punishment from the game's ruling body in Europe.

UEFA's disciplinary body will meet on Friday to decide Inter's fate after a barrage of flares and other projectiles forced the referee to abandon their Champions League game with city rivals AC Milan on Tuesday.

The shameful scenes were an ominous warning for the authorities in Turin where Juventus face Liverpool in a high-risk Champions League tie on Wednesday, overshadowed by memories of the Heysel Stadium disaster in 1985.

A minority of Juventus supporters are threatening revenge at the Stadio Delle Alpi after 39 mainly Italian spectators were killed in Brussels following a charge by Liverpool fans before the European Cup final almost exactly 20 years ago.

Tuesday's scenes in Milan were only the latest this season to tarnish the reputation of Italian football which is campaigning to host the European championship in 2012.

Clashes with police at several grounds last weekend, the waving of swastikas and fascist banners by Lazio fans and a seemingly endemic racism among the hard-core "ultras" proved too much for the country's premier on Wednesday.

Berlusconi, who owns AC Milan, told Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu that he could use "drastic measures" to curb the spate of violence and counter "the risk of even more serious incidents" in the future.

Pisanu had warned Italian clubs earlier this week he might force them to play potentially troublesome games behind closed doors -- a measure which Berlusconi now looks to have endorsed.

UEFA will be quicker in dealing with Inter, who can expect little mercy after being banned from San Siro for two matches after crowd trouble during a UEFA Cup game against Spanish club Alaves four years ago.

Inter were also banished from San Siro -- which it shares with AC Milan -- for two games by Italian officials later in the same season after their supporters threw a motor scooter from the second tier during a league game against Atalanta.

On Tuesday, their team were losing 1-0 on the night and 3-0 on aggregate when the projectiles rained down, with one of the flares hitting Milan's Brazilian goalkeeper Dida.

UEFA are likely to opt for a closed-doors ban, with all fans excluded from several home games, matching the punishment meted out to Inter's Serie A rivals AS Roma after their Champions League game with Dynamo Kiev was called off last September.

Swedish referee Anders Frisk abandoned that game after he was hit by an object thrown from the Stadio Olimpico crowd.

Attempts are being made to improve the situation in Italy, notably with an experiment later this year at Udinese's ground to have a reduced police presence but plenty of safety stewards.

Barriers separating fans from the pitch will also be removed and there will be tighter monitoring of tickets, which officials hope will eventually bear the holder's name.

Such measures will not come soon enough for Wednesday's game in Turin where the police presence has been strengthened in the run-up to a tinder-box encounter.

Tension is already running high in a city where one Liverpool fan was attacked overnight by a group of Juventus supporters apparently on a concerted midnight hunt for trouble.

Turin authorities, who host the Winter Olympics next year, will clearly want to show they can deal with a potentially volatile situation.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by ice4277

Liverpool/Juventus on ESPN2 tomorrow.

You think crowd control is bad in Europe, check out some of the stuff that has happened in Africa over the last few years. Pretty appalling, about 75 years behind in terms of their organization/crowd control. I'm still surprised they were awarded the 2010 World Cup.

It wasn't "Africa" that was awarded the World Cup, it was South Africa.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

It wasn't "Africa" that was awarded the World Cup, it was South Africa.

Well, with the rotation cycle that FIFA has put in place for all future World Cups, it was a certainty that the continent would be awarded the 2010 WC. It was just a matter of which country at that point.

[Desnudo]

True, but there are very few stable countries in Africa, so it was basically Egypt or South Africa.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

True, but there are very few stable countries in Africa, so it was basically Egypt or South Africa.

actually, there are a lot more than that - there are 50 countries on the continent. Egypt and South Africa are the only one's with the infrastructure to support it however- big difference.

On topic, Liverpool Juventus- how I wish I could be watching it, instead of sitting at work. If Liverpool pull this off, it will be up there amongst their greatest victories.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

On topic, Liverpool Juventus- how I wish I could be watching it, instead of sitting at work. If Liverpool pull this off, it will be up there amongst their greatest victories.

And 30 minutes later, Turin would be a smoking crater.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

And 30 minutes later, Turin would be a smoking crater.

that too..

Short of Liverpool scoring twice in the first 15 minutes, I don't see how Juventus doesn't win this.

[Desnudo]

Well, well.

Spoilers below:





Man U lost to Everton 0-1 in an enjoyable, if not exactly thrilling, match. More importantly for Man U, they lost Scholes and Neville to red cards. With Arsenal drawing with Chelsea, it looks like 3rd is more and more likely for Man U. The Everton goal came on a free kick off a Duncan Ferguson header. Nothing Tim Howard could do about it. Howard played a solid match, although he was probably more challenged by the poor back passes from his defense than any threat Everton mounted.

Norwich beat Newcastle 2-1, while CP lost. The relegation battle is really turning into a dog fight.

[ISiddiqui]

Egypt and South Africa are the only one's with the infrastructure to support it however

I think Morocco was in it as well... I think they may be able to support a WC. Though it may have had to be a shared WC with another country if Morocco is too small.

[SirFozzie]

Heheheh.

Ping: DC United...

REVENGE! REVENGE! REVENGEE!!!

[SirFozzie]

Dola:

Um.. ok DC United.. you can go back to sleep now. K?

3-0 to 3-2. eep

[FrogMan]

LUTON TOWN CLINCHED THE LEAGUE ONE TITLE!!!!!

Okay, I know I'm the only one to care, so I'll stop now

FM

PS: that's in real life btw, not in any of my dynasties

[SirFozzie]

4-3 final wow.

Worst referee ever, but the Revs win.

The GoatF*ckers of Chivas are next!

[SirFozzie]

Oh.. and sad day for Cambridge Utd, the english team I follow, as a 0-0 draw against Rochdale condemns them to the Conference next year.

[tucker342]

A player from my High School (left during sophmore year to play for Birmingham City) is a starter on the Scotland U-19 national team. His name is Tom Parratt.

[PilotMan]

I thought that the quality of soccer that the LA Galaxy played in the first half was as good as any soccer that you would see anywhere. They were on fire. The second half was a let down, but when you're up 3-0 after 34 minutes you're bound to have a let down.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by tucker342

A player from my High School (left during sophmore year to play for Birmingham City) is a starter on the Scotland U-19 national team. His name is Tom Parratt.

Is he an American as well?

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Oh.. and sad day for Cambridge Utd, the english team I follow, as a 0-0 draw against Rochdale condemns them to the Conference next year.

Sorry for Cambridge, but I've been following Rushden and Diamonds for a few years now and this means they only need to eek out Kidderminster to stay up.
They worked they're way up to what is now League One from the Conference in less than 10 seasons, but the owner, Max Griggs, lost interest and decided to retire (from all business concerns). The team struggled without his bucks. A cool team in CM 01/02, I took them to the Premiership and Europe, so its a sentimental thing.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by OldGiants

Sorry for Cambridge, but I've been following Rushden and Diamonds for a few years now and this means they only need to eek out Kidderminster to stay up.
They worked they're way up to what is now League One from the Conference in less than 10 seasons, but the owner, Max Griggs, lost interest and decided to retire (from all business concerns). The team struggled without his bucks. A cool team in CM 01/02, I took them to the Premiership and Europe, so its a sentimental thing.

Yeah, they were always the 'easiest' lower league team to get to reach the higher divisions in that era of CM. Funnily enough, Cambridge was also a good one to try to move up the divisions, in 99/00 or 00/01.

[Katon]

No suprises in the PFA awards. I think everyone saw Terry's win coming, and Rooney was the obvious candidate for the Young Player of the Year considering that the only other person on the ballot with his level of talent spent half the year out injured. The Premiership Team of the Season is pretty predictable too:

Petr Cech (Chelsea)
Gary Neville (Man Utd)
John Terry (Chelsea)
Rio Ferdinand (Man Utd)
Ashley Cole (Arsenal)
Frank Lampard (Chelsea)
Steven Gerrard (Liverpool)
Arjen Robben (Chelsea)
Shaun Wright-Phillips (Man C)
Thierry Henry (Arsenal)
Andrew Johnson (C Palace)

That's not a bad team. I can only think of three changes I'd make and two of those are pretty much toss-ups. Makelele in for Gerrard is the non-trivial one; Ferreira and Heinze in for Neville and Cole are the ones that could go either way. You could also make a case for Rooney over Johnson, I suppose, but Johnson's hit twice as many goals with significantly less talent around him.

[daedalus]

I thought the choices were good until you mentioned Makelele-Gerrard. I think Makelele may have been the better choice on account of Gerrard being in and out of the lineup. Don't know about Heinze's season but I had the impression that Cole had a fairly strong season. Don't know much about the Neville-Ferreira choice either.

At least it wasn't as bad as having Lauren in as the right back last year.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Katon

No suprises in the PFA awards. I think everyone saw Terry's win coming, and Rooney was the obvious candidate for the Young Player of the Year considering that the only other person on the ballot with his level of talent spent half the year out injured. The Premiership Team of the Season is pretty predictable too:

Petr Cech (Chelsea)
Gary Neville (Man Utd)
John Terry (Chelsea)
Rio Ferdinand (Man Utd)
Ashley Cole (Arsenal)
Frank Lampard (Chelsea)
Steven Gerrard (Liverpool)
Arjen Robben (Chelsea)
Shaun Wright-Phillips (Man C)
Thierry Henry (Arsenal)
Andrew Johnson (C Palace)

That's not a bad team. I can only think of three changes I'd make and two of those are pretty much toss-ups. Makelele in for Gerrard is the non-trivial one; Ferreira and Heinze in for Neville and Cole are the ones that could go either way. You could also make a case for Rooney over Johnson, I suppose, but Johnson's hit twice as many goals with significantly less talent around him.

I would swap Gerrard out as well. I would also take Andrew Johnson out. There should be a seperate award for penalty kick accuracy. Possibly take Robben off, just because he didn't get all that many games. It would have been nice to see someoone from Everton or Bolton on the list. Surely there are deserving players.

[Crapshoot]

aye- Gravensen might have a reasonable claim for that list. As for GK- good as Cech is, how about Neimi, who's had to play behind the group of guys milling around the goal occasionaly and call themselves the Southampton defense...

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

aye- Gravensen might have a reasonable claim for that list. As for GK- good as Cech is, how about Neimi, who's had to play behind the group of guys milling around the goal occasionaly and call themselves the Southampton defense...

Huh????????????

He's an avereage or good goalkeeper behind a bad defense. Cech is a great goalkeeper behidn a great defense.

[Sharpieman]

Cahill should swap with Gerrard

[ISiddiqui]

Eh... I'd keep Gerrard in there. Without him, Liverpool wouldn't be so high up the table. Johnson did have a lot of PKs, but he was a force for a sad team. Though Defoe and Rooney have an argument.

Robben deserves to be on because he sparked that Chelsea team. If you think he played too little, then maybe Pires or Cahill deserves a look.

[condors]

I think you could make a case for Pistonne from Everton at right back (and i am a manutd fan)

Neimi is a class keeper behind the worst defenders in the league. Put him at Liverpool, Arsenal or Manutd and there would be no "keeper" issues at any of those clubs. Shay Given may have been the most impressive this season for my money though. Stewart Downing should also get some mention although i don't have a problem with Robben, Downing scored or the ball was played through him on almost all of Middlesbourgh goals this season. Without him i don't think they could do anything but play long balls forward or lose possession.

That being said i honestly don't have a problem with anyone who was named to the squad i feel they all have a case to be made for them.

ps The relagation battle is awsome this season. I can see a different group going down almost any weekend. Norwich, Southampton, WBA, and Crystal Palace i wrote them all off at one point in the season(thought pompey was going down when redknapp left shows you how much i know)

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Eh... I'd keep Gerrard in there. Without him, Liverpool wouldn't be so high up the table. Johnson did have a lot of PKs, but he was a force for a sad team. Though Defoe and Rooney have an argument.

Robben deserves to be on because he sparked that Chelsea team. If you think he played too little, then maybe Pires or Cahill deserves a look.

I think Gerrard had a good, solid season, but you could argue that on his own team, Garcia has been more valuable in key situations. And Liverpool is only in 6th. With all the injuries, you could argue that is solid accomplishment, but they have more talent on paper than Everton or Bolton. I think Cahill was more instrumental in Everton's success and Everton's current position of 4th is a much greater accomplishment.

On this season's merits alone, I don't think Gerrard deserved consideration.

[Huckleberry]

In the most important news on this thread to date, Torquay passed MK Dons for the last safe position in League One. They are 3 points clear with 2 to play, but they will finish behind in goal differential.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Huh????????????

He's an avereage or good goalkeeper behind a bad defense. Cech is a great goalkeeper behidn a great defense.

I think Neimi's a damn good keeper behind a porous defense. Southampton are losing in spite of him.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I think Neimi's a damn good keeper behind a porous defense. Southampton are losing in spite of him.

This reasoning just makes ABSOLUTELY no sense to me. If Niemi was a damn good keeper he would steal them results. In no way does he do that -- he gets them wins they deserve, draws they deserve, and losses they deserve.

His effect on the team is unnoticeable (in both a good and bad way).

~rpi-fan

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Eh... I'd keep Gerrard in there. Without him, Liverpool wouldn't be so high up the table. Johnson did have a lot of PKs, but he was a force for a sad team. Though Defoe and Rooney have an argument.

Robben deserves to be on because he sparked that Chelsea team. If you think he played too little, then maybe Pires or Cahill deserves a look.

Anybody see the comedy in someone is backing 'Pool and at the same time damning Palace (who by all quantitative and qualitative measures badly outplayed Liverpool heads-up this season)?

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

This reasoning just makes ABSOLUTELY no sense to me. If Niemi was a damn good keeper he would steal them results. In no way does he do that -- he gets them wins they deserve, draws they deserve, and losses they deserve.

His effect on the team is unnoticeable (in both a good and bad way).

~rpi-fan

Have you had a look at Southampton's roster, or watched them play their brand of listless, passionless soccer and walk-on-in defense? It's hard for a keeper to steal wins when the saves required to do so mean stopping wide open shots and headers from 6 yards out.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Anybody see the comedy in someone is backing 'Pool and at the same time damning Palace (who by all quantitative and qualitative measures badly outplayed Liverpool heads-up this season)?

"You are what your record says you are"
-Bill Parcells

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

In the most important news on this thread to date, Torquay passed MK Dons for the last safe position in League One. They are 3 points clear with 2 to play, but they will finish behind in goal differential.

err, did you miss my announcement about Luton? I'm sure I beat you right there...

FM

[Desnudo]

"DaMarcus Beasley started and played until the 61st minute for PSV Eindhoven, becoming the first American to appear in a semifinal of European's top club competition. No American has played in a final."

[marshall881]

eindhoven deserved a goal in that second half.

Their work is cut out for them now going back home for the return leg.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Have you had a look at Southampton's roster, or watched them play their brand of listless, passionless soccer and walk-on-in defense? It's hard for a keeper to steal wins when the saves required to do so mean stopping wide open shots and headers from 6 yards out.

If he can't steal wins, what makes him deserving of the EPL keeper of the year? Seems like somebody who is talented but doesn't have the intensity and desire to make his team better.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

If he can't steal wins, what makes him deserving of the EPL keeper of the year? Seems like somebody who is talented but doesn't have the intensity and desire to make his team better.

Roffle. A keeper who faces 99 shots and stops 98 (and yes, that's an exagguration) lacks "intensity" and "desire" ? I think you're falling in love with cliches. This is the baseball equivalent of "knowing how to win" or "veteran experience." ?

[ISiddiqui]

I think, in context, it's like Randy Johnson last year. Did all he possibly could, but get nothing from his teammates.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

If he can't steal wins, what makes him deserving of the EPL keeper of the year? Seems like somebody who is talented but doesn't have the intensity and desire to make his team better.

I always thought making the team better was the manager's job. Niemi keeps his team in games, which his job. Winning it is the strikers' job. Southampton wouldn't even have a chance at avoiding relegation without his play. So you could argue that nearly all their wins have been "stolen" due to the keeper's form. Robert Green is another keeper who's been outstanding for a very poor team, despite letting in a number of goals.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by marshall881

eindhoven deserved a goal in that second half.

Their work is cut out for them now going back home for the return leg.

Nitpicking alert!

It's PSV (PSV Eindhoven could work too, to avoid confusion with other PSVs), but definately not Eindhoven. There's another soccer team in Eindhoven which name is simply "Eindhoven", but they're like the L.A. Lakers and L.A. Clippers.

And the Philips company wouldn't like to see their P in the name left out.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Nitpicking alert!

It's PSV (PSV Eindhoven could work too, to avoid confusion with other PSVs), but definately not Eindhoven. There's another soccer team in Eindhoven which name is simply "Eindhoven", but they're like the L.A. Lakers and L.A. Clippers.

And the Philips company wouldn't like to see their P in the name left out.

A lot of people in the States do that with European team names. It especially happens with Real Madrid, people just calling them "Real".

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by condors

ps The relagation battle is awsome this season. I can see a different group going down almost any weekend. Norwich, Southampton, WBA, and Crystal Palace i wrote them all off at one point in the season(thought pompey was going down when redknapp left shows you how much i know)

I don't recall a relegation battle quite like this in the last few years; usually at least one team is doomed by now.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I always thought making the team better was the manager's job. Niemi keeps his team in games, which his job. Winning it is the strikers' job. Southampton wouldn't even have a chance at avoiding relegation without his play. So you could argue that nearly all their wins have been "stolen" due to the keeper's form. Robert Green is another keeper who's been outstanding for a very poor team, despite letting in a number of goals.

It's certainly silly to blame Niemi for the fact that Southampton's midfield and back four have been completely useless all season. Just look at what happened on Sunday when he finally had an off day to see what a difference he normally makes. The thing is, though, he's missed ten matches this season. Petr Cech's been ever-present. I think Cech's been clearly the best in the league even apart from his durability, but certainly there's no way Niemi's been better enough to offset the massive difference in their playing time.

[Critch]

Cech's record breaking run without conceding a goal earlier this season, along with his high standard all year, makes it difficult to argue with the choice. He's obviously got a top class defence in front of him, but he's still been great.

I'd still put Niemi in the top handful in the league though, better than anything Liverpool, Man Utd or Arsenal have. I'd guess if Southampton go down he'll be linked with a number of the top teams over the summer, I'd like to see him go to Liverpool. Dudek is too erratic and Kirkland/Carson don't look ready yet.

[condors]

can somebody please tell me what the heck happened to Patrick Vieria this season?

for the last couple seasons he has been almost other worldly on the pitch.

This season you hardly notice him at all(some game much worse than others)

I find it shocking from a guy who was so very conistantly good the last couple seasons (he isn't old or anything) is it a year long in bad form? I am wondering if he wants to go to Real Madrid ? Is he carrying an injury that i am unaware of? aliens kidknapped him and replaced him with a uninspired clone?

[marshall881]

There was a nice article in the USA Today yesterday about DeMarcus Beasley if you can still find one laying around.

It was the main story in the Sports section.