GroupThink 3 - Kitty Hawk, 2022 - Page 3

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz
Diana and Kowalski have done okay. no need to move them along. We don't ask much and they give what we ask.

And with them having 13 and 14 years experience, I anticipate they'll be retiring at the end of their contracts. Speaking of which, how long is Diana asking? That might help us in planning for his leadership successor.

Of course if you really wanted to get rid of Diana as a starter, you could always change him to FB. Kowalski would remain Backfield leader and Diana would no longer be receivers leader. Based on our receivers leadership, it shouldn't be too hard to find someone with higher leadership. Although, we would want to be careful about who was Diana's successor.

I'm not suggesting we do this. I think it would be a pretty serious bend of the spirit of our rule and don't think we should allow ourselves to change a position just to serve our leadership purposes. (But it is an intriguing concept!

)

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 09:19 AM

I'd like you to make an offer to DT Levine. He is cheap, and the game allows us to sub in DTs for pass rushing situations. I think that he could give us some needed depth. Only DE and DT can sub for DT, so our surplus of LBs won't help us when a DT goes down. (And we still don't know if we are doing the 3-4 or the 4-3. If we stick with the 4-3, then we will really need the depth that he provides).

Also--I am tempted by your idea of getting Manning for this season. We won't know until the draft if we are able to draft a DE for the future. If not, then we will really need a body there until we can look next year. Even if we can draft a DE for the future in the draft, he will have a year to be situationally substituted until taking over full time next year.

So, I would like you to make an offer to DT Levine and a one year offer to DE Manning.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 10:14 AM

Okay, gang - here's where I have the game at the moment. I have submitted the following FA bids:

QB Sparks - 3yr, $15.0m
QB Francis - 2yr, $2.75m
FB Kowalski - 2yr, $3.80m
TE Diana - 2yr, $5.14m
C Drake - 2yr, $2.70m
G Hauserman - 3yr, $7.0m
G Johnson - 3yr, $6.33m
T Johns - 4yr, $38.76m
T Huntley - 3yr, $7.6m
DE Manning - 1yr, $10.0m
DT Levine - 2yr, $2.70m

My plan with our two current linebackers is to wait them out, intending to get one of them with a fairly late bid (Mills first). If they receive offers from other teams, I will either match the offers, or will come back to the group for more consultation.

Recall, we are able to pursue two more players after the FA process starts. In my mind, this is an opportunity to trawl for bargains, or to fill holes if we fail to lock up the FA players we are pursing (especially DE Manning, who I suspect we won't get at this bid). So, at some point, probably 10-15 weeks in, I will give a status report, and let you all know what's cooking.

Are we ready to start the FA process, then? Or are there more additions to our list of pursuits?

edit - added G Johnson to the offer list

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
I'd like you to make an offer to DT Levine. He is cheap, and the game allows us to sub in DTs for pass rushing situations. I think that he could give us some needed depth. Only DE and DT can sub for DT, so our surplus of LBs won't help us when a DT goes down. (And we still don't know if we are doing the 3-4 or the 4-3. If we stick with the 4-3, then we will really need the depth that he provides).

Also--I am tempted by your idea of getting Manning for this season. We won't know until the draft if we are able to draft a DE for the future. If not, then we will really need a body there until we can look next year. Even if we can draft a DE for the future in the draft, he will have a year to be situationally substituted until taking over full time next year.

So, I would like you to make an offer to DT Levine and a one year offer to DE Manning.

Before we commit, to Manning (which I am not opposed to) I wanted to make sure we'd like to pass on DE Brad Rosa He isn't as good as manning, and wants a longer contract, but would be easier on the purse strings. Just wanted to put him out there for consideration.

Also, all - Have you looked at RG Jerry Johnson or SE Everett Thomas? I think they are players that are worth a look.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buzzbee
[b]Before we commit, to Manning (which I am not opposed to) I wanted to make sure we'd like to pass on DE Brad Rosa He isn't as good as manning, and wants a longer contract, but would be easier on the purse strings. Just wanted to put him out there for consideration.[b]

I'm open to the majority here, but I don't see an awfu lot in Rosa - not to make him a $5m+ multi-year offer. If he were $2 million, I'd say snap him up for certain, but if we'd pay $5m for Rosa, I'd much rather pay $8-10m for a true impact player.

Rosa's career PRPct of 4.3 is behind what we got our of Buddy Middleton in his rookie season. I'm not too enamored with him - solid, but not worth a big investment, in my mind.

Quote:

Also, all - Have you looked at RG Jerry Johnson or SE Everett Thomas? I think they are players that are worth a look.

Offer is in to G Johnson, but Fritz (while he likes Thomas) has indicated that his current complement of WRs will be okay.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 10:24 AM

Fritz, at one point you lobbied for G Mickey Lester. We're now offering money to another FA guard, Jerry Johnson. Do you have a strong opinion between these two? Lester is a heavy-run guy, while Johnson is solid overall. Both look like potential starters for us this year- but I think it makes sense only to pursue one of them, along with our own guy Hauserman.

Your thoughts?

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 10:25 AM

Being an Assistant Scout, I'm deferring at this point. But the list looks good.

Fritz · 10-07-2003, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
Fritz, at one point you lobbied for G Mickey Lester. We're now offering money to another FA guard, Jerry Johnson. Do you have a strong opinion between these two? Lester is a heavy-run guy, while Johnson is solid overall. Both look like potential starters for us this year- but I think it makes sense only to pursue one of them, along with our own guy Hauserman.

Your thoughts?

I am unable to get to my game, so I can not compare. Just get us a guy that can move some linemen around in the run game.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 10:37 AM

At G it might be good to have a balanced player to help protect the QB.

Age/leadership/sign are also factors to consider. Any pluses/minuses for either?

{EDIT: I checked an earlier post of mine and Johnson has an affinity with Johns.}{Hmmm...kinda obvious to see who I'm pushing for.

}

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
I'm open to the majority here, but I don't see an awfu lot in Rosa - not to make him a $5m+ multi-year offer. If he were $2 million, I'd say snap him up for certain, but if we'd pay $5m for Rosa, I'd much rather pay $8-10m for a true impact player.

Rosa's career PRPct of 4.3 is behind what we got our of Buddy Middleton in his rookie season. I'm not too enamored with him - solid, but not worth a big investment, in my mind.

Good enough argument for me. So be it.

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 10:46 AM

Johnson has 5 less seasons on him, and hasn't been used much. More upside (41/64), and is well liked by fans. Former 1st rounder, 86 BS, 30/63 RB, 31/60 PB, 32/36 END.

Lester is an 11 year vet looking for 3 years, 89 RB, 0/1 PB, 28 BS, 40 END. Has been a starter 6 years (CHA hardly played him in 2 stints), and has allowed over 12 sacks in 4 of those years. Lifetime BPtc of 30.3.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 10:48 AM

I think I'll leave Johnson on the pursuit list - especially at RG, I like to have some balance here. Hate to see the QB facing inordinate pressure from that spot.

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buzzbee
Good enough argument for me. So be it.

I always preferred J.C. Sinclair over Rosa anyway

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 10:52 AM

[dance]
WooHooo!! They like my guy, they like my guy!!! Yeeehaaaaww!!
[/dance]

[angry face]
You better pan out, guy. Don't make me look foolish. You wouldn't like it if I look foolish.
[/angry face]

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cuervo72
I always preferred J.C. Sinclair over Rosa anyway

Yeah, just cuz you found him.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:02 AM

2022 Free Agency Process

Our Flyers have much work to do – as is often the case with main contenders, much of that work rests in getting our own proven players to return to the fold. For us, it’s for “another go” at the big prize that just eluded us last season.

Week One

The first returns from the FA process are good – not a single player from our pursuit group is listed as receiving a top offer from a different team. We’ve got a shot at a clean sweep, it seems.

G Dave Hauserman is back on a new three year deal, and DE Brian Manning jumped at our one year bonus-rich offer. But we still have more to consider.

We are the only bidders on every single other player on our list. Yes, that includes our three position leaders – so as expected, we anticipate seeing Diana, Kowalski, and Johns return to us for another tour of duty.

Nobody is pursuing either of our veteran linebackers – so our wait-and-see strategy is working so far.

It looks like Lake Erie QB Monty Glenn will break the bank, getting offers over $100 million for a four year deal. DE Jay Cedeno has inked Manhattan’s offer of over $16m per season – making our offer to DE Manning look downright pitiful by comparison.

Middle weeks

Our dominoes continue to fall – all our target players sign with us for the initial offers. It couldn’t have gone more smoothly.

As we reach week 8, we have 42 players signed to contracts, and $22 million in cap space (or $13.8m in space after we consider the rookie draft). LBs J.J. Mills and Demson Shon have adjusted their expectations down to around $3.1-3.2m per year each… we think they will probably go unpursued for a few more weeks. It looks pretty likely that we will have them available for our re-signing at our leisure.

However, we have a problem. DT Brian Levine, if he stays with the team, will become our defensive front leader. That causes heartburn for three players—our two unsigned free agents, and also DE Geoff Emerson. I think that we’ll have to jettison Levine (who signed without a bonus, so there’s no cost to us there). But we may need to make a move with a late FA pursuit to get a stopgap at DT.

In week 10, Memphis makes an approach to LB Demsond Shon. One year, $3.22 million. Not a great offer – but we probably need to decide now whether we want to retain him for the coming season.

This looks like a good stopping point, with a few things yet to be settled. I’ll distribute a file update, and we can plan our approach from here.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:04 AM

File update #1 of 2

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:05 AM

File update #2 of 2

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:09 AM

Okay, a no-brainer guy for us to pursue here:

DT Bart Guthrie, a true run-stopper prospect, is a 7th year player who has only gotten about 1 1/2 seasons worth of work in Tulsa. He has some abiliity to stop the run, with a pretty decent 9.1 TkPct grade from last season in about half time work. He can get to the QB a little (7.5 career sacks) but his forte is against the run inside. He would have an affinity with our leader, Littlejohn, but would not assume the leadership role.

Wants about $2 million a year - I say we pony up and sign him for two or three seasons.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 11:15 AM

Mills vs. Shon - I think AB said he would prefer Mills. Where does Mills stand on the FA market? Any offers? If not, I say give Shon a nice pat on the fanny on his way out the door.

In scouting teams last year there were only 3 or 4 teams that ran to the left more than to the right. Those that ran to the right did so nearly twice as much. Typical numbers would be in the neighborhood of 150 middle, 140 right, 80 left. As a result, I think it is important to have a SLB who is good at stopping the run, as well as a good overall LDE. Therefore, I'm thinking Mills is the man for the job.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
Okay, a no-brainer guy for us to pursue here:

DT Bart Guthrie, a true run-stopper prospect, is a 7th year player who has only gotten about 1 1/2 seasons worth of work in Tulsa. He has some abiliity to stop the run, with a pretty decent 9.1 TkPct grade from last season in about half time work. He can get to the QB a little (7.5 career sacks) but his forte is against the run inside. He would have an affinity with our leader, Littlejohn, but would not assume the leadership role.

Wants about $2 million a year - I say we pony up and sign him for two or three seasons.

Yes. In a heartbeat. I'll get him on the field one way or the other.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
Okay, a no-brainer guy for us to pursue here:

DT Bart Guthrie, a true run-stopper prospect, is a 7th year player who has only gotten about 1 1/2 seasons worth of work in Tulsa. He has some abiliity to stop the run, with a pretty decent 9.1 TkPct grade from last season in about half time work. He can get to the QB a little (7.5 career sacks) but his forte is against the run inside. He would have an affinity with our leader, Littlejohn, but would not assume the leadership role.

Wants about $2 million a year - I say we pony up and sign him for two or three seasons.

If you think it is a no brainer, sign away. Will this signing, plus our LB (Mills/Shon) signing finish us off for free agency?

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:19 AM

WR Everett Thomas is still out there, and grades as one of the better cheap players available. Carr's contract is due after this year, and Sanderson's after next year - Thomas could be in our rotation this year, and could be a starter soon. Pretty affordable (about $2m) and chemistry-neutral.

There might be a passable role-player at DE out there for us, too. Brandon Boyd wants about $3.5m, and might be a passable fit for a year or two. For a little more cash, Brad Rosa and J.C. Sinclair are both still available, and have been touted here already. This might be a sensible way to spend a few bucks also.

Our rules liimit us to no more than two new pursuits (which doesn't include our own players) - so we have to make some choices - both in terms of what players/positions, and what duration to seek.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buzzbee
Mills vs. Shon - I think AB said he would prefer Mills. Where does Mills stand on the FA market? Any offers? If not, I say give Shon a nice pat on the fanny on his way out the door.

In scouting teams last year there were only 3 or 4 teams that ran to the left more than to the right. Those that ran to the right did so nearly twice as much. Typical numbers would be in the neighborhood of 150 middle, 140 right, 80 left. As a result, I think it is important to have a SLB who is good at stopping the run, as well as a good overall LDE. Therefore, I'm thinking Mills is the man for the job.

It is about expectations. I like Mills better, but that is partly because I did not expect him to be anything more than a run plugger. However, I think he played above his reds last year--and even got a few INTs. And he has stayed healthy.

Shon has done fine as WLB, but I was expecting a big year out of him. I wanted 10+ sacks from a guy who is basically a 5th rusher most of the time. He didn't do that. In his defense, it looks like he goes off the field in nickel situations, limiting his numbers. Overall, however, he did not meet my expectations, while Mills exceeded my expectations. Hense, I like Mills better.

Someone more objective may, however, want to look at them to make sure that letting Shon go is the right call.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buzzbee
Mills vs. Shon - I think AB said he would prefer Mills. Where does Mills stand on the FA market? Any offers? If not, I say give Shon a nice pat on the fanny on his way out the door.

I'll add to the reasoning here. We have a plethora of solid young LBs, most of whom have skill sets that are pretty comparable already to those of Desmond Shon.

Mills, on the other hand, gives us one thing - a guy who is focused on stopping the run. Nobody else among our LB corps is as good against the run as he is, and I think that's worth something. The fact that he will probably be the cheaper of the two is a nice bonus, but I think that because of the other players we already have on hand, Mills is actually the guy we need more, too.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 11:22 AM

Dola--I would not, however, be adverse to keeping both of them at the right price.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
WR Everett Thomas is still out there, and grades as one of the better cheap players available. Carr's contract is due after this year, and Sanderson's after next year - Thomas could be in our rotation this year, and could be a starter soon. Pretty affordable (about $2m) and chemistry-neutral.

There might be a passable role-player at DE out there for us, too. Brandon Boyd wants about $3.5m, and might be a passable fit for a year or two. For a little more cash, Brad Rosa and J.C. Sinclair are both still available, and have been touted here already. This might be a sensible way to spend a few bucks also.

Our rules liimit us to no more than two new pursuits (which doesn't include our own players) - so we have to make some choices - both in terms of what players/positions, and what duration to seek.

Having gotten Martin and (hopefully) Guthrie, I don't think we really need another DE if we can get a WR for cheap.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:27 AM

I will point out that LB J.J. Mills, as a run-focused player, does become something of a target in the passing game. He yielded 41 catches last season - which is fairly high. Four picks and four passes defensed os pretyt nice, but we have to understand that he creates opportunities for an underneath passing game up against us.

(perhaps we ought to switch sides, and have Mills be the guy whwo comes out when we drop into nickel coverage?)

Fritz · 10-07-2003, 11:29 AM

I would prefer to draft a WR and pick up another in rookie FA

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:29 AM

I'll also comment that last year's rookie LB Buddy Middleton, if not pressed into service to play at DE, looks very well-suited to take over Desmond Shon's role as our principal pass-rushing linebacker. If he stays on the field, he could do some real damage - he's a superior pass rusher to Shon.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand

(perhaps we ought to switch sides, and have Mills be the guy whwo comes out when we drop into nickel coverage?)

But then he will have to play the weak side, which is the opposite side of the majority of the running plays.

I do not think that FOF4 allows us to choose which LB to take out in the nickel situation. (And, since we are talking about it, how strong is our assumption/belief that it is the WLB who is taken out in nickel situations?)

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:33 AM

There are also a fair number of pretty solid safeties in this FA market - and we haven't talked much about making an addition back there. I personally am very satisfied with our secondary, and love our third safety McNair... but there are some decent quality guys out there asking for around $2 million or so.

Are we thinking that getting DT Guthrie and one of the DEs makes the most sense?

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 11:33 AM

We could try Daniels at SLB (which would allow him to rush some, too) and Mills at MLB, but Mills would still be on the field for passing downs.

If FOF4 does take the WLB out in nickel situations, that is pretty silly because SLB and MLB are the slots in which you would want your best run stoppers. One of them should come out on nickel downs.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
(And, since we are talking about it, how strong is our assumption/belief that it is the WLB who is taken out in nickel situations?)

Not too strong - really just the evidence that we're getting all those sacks from the nickel back, plus the relative shortage of plays that Shon got last year.

Shon got 245 run plays, and 320 pass plays.
Mills got 319 run plays, and 519 pass plays.

The big difference is definitely against pass plays... which is a shame since Mills is really a run-stopping specialist.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 11:36 AM

I don't know how much another safety would get to see the field. We are pretty set back there.

My only (selfish) request if we do pick up a role player DE here is to not close the door to drafting a stud DE if one falls to us. I understand that the need to trade up may be gone, but if we can get one for good value to relace Martin, I would not want us to ignore the chance.

However, another DE would allow us to play Middleton "in position" and would pretty much let us let go of Shon without consequence--which would be nice.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 11:37 AM

. . . So I'm cool with it.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
But then he will have to play the weak side, which is the opposite side of the majority of the running plays.

I do not think that FOF4 allows us to choose which LB to take out in the nickel situation. (And, since we are talking about it, how strong is our assumption/belief that it is the WLB who is taken out in nickel situations?)

I agree that Mills will need to stay at SLB.

Maybe this might be one benefit of a 3-4 that we haven't thought of. In the nickel we have Mills, Daniels, and Middleton/Rapp on the field with Perry coming in at nickel. When we aren't in the nickel we substitute Plank or Mitchell as the 4th LB.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
My only (selfish) request if we do pick up a role player DE here is to not close the door to drafting a stud DE if one falls to us. I understand that the need to trade up may be gone, but if we can get one for good value to relace Martin, I would not want us to ignore the chance.

Agreed, especially with Manning aboard really just as a stopgap to get us throuugh this year.

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 11:39 AM

What's the opinion on if Otis Mitchell can come in and replace Mills? Guys got some potential (he wasn't drafted?). Not strong against the run now, but could get there.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
Shon got 245 run plays, and 320 pass plays.
Mills got 319 run plays, and 519 pass plays.

And what about Perry, if we add his numbers to Shon, does it come close to what Mills has?

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
Not too strong - really just the evidence that we're getting all those sacks from the nickel back, plus the relative shortage of plays that Shon got last year.

Shon got 245 run plays, and 320 pass plays.
Mills got 319 run plays, and 519 pass plays.

The big difference is definitely against pass plays... which is a shame since Mills is really a run-stopping specialist.

Maybe this is a case of endurance actually factoring in - 22 for Shon, 38 for Mills? Though it would appear the nickel answer correlates more strongly.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 11:50 AM

I'm ok with picking up another DE. I agree with Albion that it will give us more versatility on the D Line and perhaps allow Middleton to move to a more natural position.

I'd like to get WR Everett Thomas, but if Fritz is happy with his squad, it's good enough for me.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buzzbee
And what about Perry, if we add his numbers to Shon, does it come close to what Mills has?

Perry got in for 111 and 257, which strongly suggests thet he was getting most of Shon's nickel time.

If we're confident that the WLB drops out in the nickel package, then I'm thinking it migt actually make sense to have Mills play on the weak side, and have Middleton play the strong. Yes, it fails on the "run side" analysis, but it certainly puts our players on the field at the right time. I'd then suggest that we use the Sam as the main blitzbacker rather than the Willie... and have Middleton either blitzing or covering frequently - both of which he should do very, very well.

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cuervo72
What's the opinion on if Otis Mitchell can come in and replace Mills? Guys got some potential (he wasn't drafted?). Not strong against the run now, but could get there.

Actually, I think that Mitchell's future might lie at MLB. His only real weakness is pass rushing (and only partially so there) but if he really develops as ourscout suggests, this guy becomes a great run stopper and a very good drop-back cover man 0-- exactly what we want from our MLB.

He can make the position switch pretty painlessly this year, so our scout says. If we land Mills, we'll have the bodies to allow the move.

cuervo72 · 10-07-2003, 11:58 AM

Another strike against Shon then it would appear.

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
I'd then suggest that we use the Sam as the main blitzbacker rather than the Willie... and have Middleton either blitzing or covering frequently - both of which he should do very, very well.

I'm not sure I agree with making the SLB the main blitzer. Remeber, Perry was very effective at getting to the QB from the nickel slot. If what Albion suspects is true, it's because the WLB was set with a high blitz %. Dropping this down MAY result in less blitzing from the nickel back. That may be good, that may be bad. Just something to consider.

{EDIT: By the way, if we have DE to fill that spot, I wholeheartedly agree with Middleton moving to SLB (or WLB for that matter). As a result, I fully support another DE through the FA market (and maybe in the draft as well, if one drops in our laps).

Fritz · 10-07-2003, 12:02 PM

just football talk, not GT talk:

if you blitz the SAM then you usually cover the TE with the SS, hurting your ability to double or deep cover.

albionmoonlight · 10-07-2003, 12:02 PM

From the Kitty Hawk Times-Herald:

Home for Sale:

4 BR, 3 1/2 Bath, screened in porch. Beachfront lot. Must see to believe! Job related relocation; owner must sell. Contact D. Shon at 555-1232

Buzzbee · 10-07-2003, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
From the Kitty Hawk Times-Herald:

Home for Sale:

4 BR, 3 1/2 Bath, screened in porch. Beachfront lot. Must see to believe! Job related relocation; owner must sell. Contact D. Shon at 555-1232

QuikSand · 10-07-2003, 12:15 PM

I'm prepared to break the tie, and put in a bid for DE Sinclair. Any objections?

If not, we can go ahead... and probaby get through free agency and into the draft. Where the real debates will start up!

10-07-2003, 10:14 AM	#103
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Okay, gang - here's where I have the game at the moment. I have submitted the following FA bids: QB Sparks - 3yr, $15.0m QB Francis - 2yr, $2.75m FB Kowalski - 2yr, $3.80m TE Diana - 2yr, $5.14m C Drake - 2yr, $2.70m G Hauserman - 3yr, $7.0m G Johnson - 3yr, $6.33m T Johns - 4yr, $38.76m T Huntley - 3yr, $7.6m DE Manning - 1yr, $10.0m DT Levine - 2yr, $2.70m My plan with our two current linebackers is to wait them out, intending to get one of them with a fairly late bid (Mills first). If they receive offers from other teams, I will either match the offers, or will come back to the group for more consultation. Recall, we are able to pursue two more players after the FA process starts. In my mind, this is an opportunity to trawl for bargains, or to fill holes if we fail to lock up the FA players we are pursing (especially DE Manning, who I suspect we won't get at this bid). So, at some point, probably 10-15 weeks in, I will give a status report, and let you all know what's cooking. Are we ready to start the FA process, then? Or are there more additions to our list of pursuits? edit - added G Johnson to the offer list Last edited by QuikSand : 10-07-2003 at 10:16 AM.

10-07-2003, 10:24 AM	#106
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Fritz, at one point you lobbied for G Mickey Lester. We're now offering money to another FA guard, Jerry Johnson. Do you have a strong opinion between these two? Lester is a heavy-run guy, while Johnson is solid overall. Both look like potential starters for us this year- but I think it makes sense only to pursue one of them, along with our own guy Hauserman. Your thoughts? Last edited by QuikSand : 10-07-2003 at 10:24 AM.

10-07-2003, 10:25 AM	#107
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Being an Assistant Scout, I'm deferring at this point. But the list looks good. __________________ null

10-07-2003, 10:37 AM	#109
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	At G it might be good to have a balanced player to help protect the QB. Age/leadership/sign are also factors to consider. Any pluses/minuses for either? {EDIT: I checked an earlier post of mine and Johnson has an affinity with Johns.}{Hmmm...kinda obvious to see who I'm pushing for. } __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz Last edited by Buzzbee : 10-07-2003 at 10:39 AM.

10-07-2003, 10:46 AM	#111
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Johnson has 5 less seasons on him, and hasn't been used much. More upside (41/64), and is well liked by fans. Former 1st rounder, 86 BS, 30/63 RB, 31/60 PB, 32/36 END. Lester is an 11 year vet looking for 3 years, 89 RB, 0/1 PB, 28 BS, 40 END. Has been a starter 6 years (CHA hardly played him in 2 stints), and has allowed over 12 sacks in 4 of those years. Lifetime BPtc of 30.3. __________________ null

10-07-2003, 09:19 AM	#102
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	I'd like you to make an offer to DT Levine. He is cheap, and the game allows us to sub in DTs for pass rushing situations. I think that he could give us some needed depth. Only DE and DT can sub for DT, so our surplus of LBs won't help us when a DT goes down. (And we still don't know if we are doing the 3-4 or the 4-3. If we stick with the 4-3, then we will really need the depth that he provides). Also--I am tempted by your idea of getting Manning for this season. We won't know until the draft if we are able to draft a DE for the future. If not, then we will really need a body there until we can look next year. Even if we can draft a DE for the future in the draft, he will have a year to be situationally substituted until taking over full time next year. So, I would like you to make an offer to DT Levine and a one year offer to DE Manning.

10-07-2003, 10:48 AM	#112
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I think I'll leave Johnson on the pursuit list - especially at RG, I like to have some balance here. Hate to see the QB facing inordinate pressure from that spot.

10-07-2003, 10:52 AM	#114
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	[dance] WooHooo!! They like my guy, they like my guy!!! Yeeehaaaaww!! [/dance] [angry face] You better pan out, guy. Don't make me look foolish. You wouldn't like it if I look foolish. [/angry face] __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz

10-07-2003, 11:02 AM	#116
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	2022 Free Agency Process Our Flyers have much work to do – as is often the case with main contenders, much of that work rests in getting our own proven players to return to the fold. For us, it’s for “another go” at the big prize that just eluded us last season. Week One The first returns from the FA process are good – not a single player from our pursuit group is listed as receiving a top offer from a different team. We’ve got a shot at a clean sweep, it seems. G Dave Hauserman is back on a new three year deal, and DE Brian Manning jumped at our one year bonus-rich offer. But we still have more to consider. We are the only bidders on every single other player on our list. Yes, that includes our three position leaders – so as expected, we anticipate seeing Diana, Kowalski, and Johns return to us for another tour of duty. Nobody is pursuing either of our veteran linebackers – so our wait-and-see strategy is working so far. It looks like Lake Erie QB Monty Glenn will break the bank, getting offers over $100 million for a four year deal. DE Jay Cedeno has inked Manhattan’s offer of over $16m per season – making our offer to DE Manning look downright pitiful by comparison. Middle weeks Our dominoes continue to fall – all our target players sign with us for the initial offers. It couldn’t have gone more smoothly. As we reach week 8, we have 42 players signed to contracts, and $22 million in cap space (or $13.8m in space after we consider the rookie draft). LBs J.J. Mills and Demson Shon have adjusted their expectations down to around $3.1-3.2m per year each… we think they will probably go unpursued for a few more weeks. It looks pretty likely that we will have them available for our re-signing at our leisure. However, we have a problem. DT Brian Levine, if he stays with the team, will become our defensive front leader. That causes heartburn for three players—our two unsigned free agents, and also DE Geoff Emerson. I think that we’ll have to jettison Levine (who signed without a bonus, so there’s no cost to us there). But we may need to make a move with a late FA pursuit to get a stopgap at DT. In week 10, Memphis makes an approach to LB Demsond Shon. One year, $3.22 million. Not a great offer – but we probably need to decide now whether we want to retain him for the coming season. This looks like a good stopping point, with a few things yet to be settled. I’ll distribute a file update, and we can plan our approach from here.

10-07-2003, 11:04 AM	#117
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	File update #1 of 2

10-07-2003, 11:05 AM	#118
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	File update #2 of 2

10-07-2003, 11:09 AM	#119
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Okay, a no-brainer guy for us to pursue here: DT Bart Guthrie, a true run-stopper prospect, is a 7th year player who has only gotten about 1 1/2 seasons worth of work in Tulsa. He has some abiliity to stop the run, with a pretty decent 9.1 TkPct grade from last season in about half time work. He can get to the QB a little (7.5 career sacks) but his forte is against the run inside. He would have an affinity with our leader, Littlejohn, but would not assume the leadership role. Wants about $2 million a year - I say we pony up and sign him for two or three seasons.

10-07-2003, 11:15 AM	#120
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	Mills vs. Shon - I think AB said he would prefer Mills. Where does Mills stand on the FA market? Any offers? If not, I say give Shon a nice pat on the fanny on his way out the door. In scouting teams last year there were only 3 or 4 teams that ran to the left more than to the right. Those that ran to the right did so nearly twice as much. Typical numbers would be in the neighborhood of 150 middle, 140 right, 80 left. As a result, I think it is important to have a SLB who is good at stopping the run, as well as a good overall LDE. Therefore, I'm thinking Mills is the man for the job. __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz

10-07-2003, 11:19 AM	#123
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	WR Everett Thomas is still out there, and grades as one of the better cheap players available. Carr's contract is due after this year, and Sanderson's after next year - Thomas could be in our rotation this year, and could be a starter soon. Pretty affordable (about $2m) and chemistry-neutral. There might be a passable role-player at DE out there for us, too. Brandon Boyd wants about $3.5m, and might be a passable fit for a year or two. For a little more cash, Brad Rosa and J.C. Sinclair are both still available, and have been touted here already. This might be a sensible way to spend a few bucks also. Our rules liimit us to no more than two new pursuits (which doesn't include our own players) - so we have to make some choices - both in terms of what players/positions, and what duration to seek.

10-07-2003, 11:22 AM	#126
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	Dola--I would not, however, be adverse to keeping both of them at the right price.

10-07-2003, 11:27 AM	#128
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I will point out that LB J.J. Mills, as a run-focused player, does become something of a target in the passing game. He yielded 41 catches last season - which is fairly high. Four picks and four passes defensed os pretyt nice, but we have to understand that he creates opportunities for an underneath passing game up against us. (perhaps we ought to switch sides, and have Mills be the guy whwo comes out when we drop into nickel coverage?)

10-07-2003, 11:29 AM	#129
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	I would prefer to draft a WR and pick up another in rookie FA __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-07-2003, 11:29 AM	#130
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I'll also comment that last year's rookie LB Buddy Middleton, if not pressed into service to play at DE, looks very well-suited to take over Desmond Shon's role as our principal pass-rushing linebacker. If he stays on the field, he could do some real damage - he's a superior pass rusher to Shon.

10-07-2003, 11:33 AM	#132
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	There are also a fair number of pretty solid safeties in this FA market - and we haven't talked much about making an addition back there. I personally am very satisfied with our secondary, and love our third safety McNair... but there are some decent quality guys out there asking for around $2 million or so. Are we thinking that getting DT Guthrie and one of the DEs makes the most sense?

10-07-2003, 11:33 AM	#133
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	We could try Daniels at SLB (which would allow him to rush some, too) and Mills at MLB, but Mills would still be on the field for passing downs. If FOF4 does take the WLB out in nickel situations, that is pretty silly because SLB and MLB are the slots in which you would want your best run stoppers. One of them should come out on nickel downs.

10-07-2003, 11:36 AM	#135
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	I don't know how much another safety would get to see the field. We are pretty set back there. My only (selfish) request if we do pick up a role player DE here is to not close the door to drafting a stud DE if one falls to us. I understand that the need to trade up may be gone, but if we can get one for good value to relace Martin, I would not want us to ignore the chance. However, another DE would allow us to play Middleton "in position" and would pretty much let us let go of Shon without consequence--which would be nice.

10-07-2003, 11:37 AM	#136
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	. . . So I'm cool with it.

10-07-2003, 11:39 AM	#139
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	What's the opinion on if Otis Mitchell can come in and replace Mills? Guys got some potential (he wasn't drafted?). Not strong against the run now, but could get there. __________________ null

10-07-2003, 11:50 AM	#142
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	I'm ok with picking up another DE. I agree with Albion that it will give us more versatility on the D Line and perhaps allow Middleton to move to a more natural position. I'd like to get WR Everett Thomas, but if Fritz is happy with his squad, it's good enough for me. __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz Last edited by Buzzbee : 10-07-2003 at 11:51 AM.

10-07-2003, 11:58 AM	#145
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Another strike against Shon then it would appear.

10-07-2003, 12:02 PM	#147
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	just football talk, not GT talk: if you blitz the SAM then you usually cover the TE with the SS, hurting your ability to double or deep cover. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-07-2003, 12:02 PM	#148
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	From the Kitty Hawk Times-Herald: Home for Sale: 4 BR, 3 1/2 Bath, screened in porch. Beachfront lot. Must see to believe! Job related relocation; owner must sell. Contact D. Shon at 555-1232

10-07-2003, 12:15 PM	#150
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I'm prepared to break the tie, and put in a bid for DE Sinclair. Any objections? If not, we can go ahead... and probaby get through free agency and into the draft. Where the real debates will start up!

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