Yay, It's the 2010 NBA Playoffs thread!

[TroyF]

I type that and then the refs go into full blown Nuggets mode.

I still think Utah wins this game. Korver is on fire. That makes their offense really hum. Should be a fun fouerth.

[jbergey22]

These two teams play some of the worst defense I have seen in a playoff game.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

These two teams play some of the worst defense I have seen in a playoff game.

I'm not saying I disagree. These are two bad defensive teams. But that said, it's hard to play defense when the refs change things up every other possession. Take the poor bastards guarding Melo. You beat him up in the first half, they don't call a foul. At the end of the third quarter you breath on him and he goes to the FT line.

We are now at 37 FTA each team, with most of the fourth quarter left. I have to hand it to Utah here. Terrific game they are playing. The Nuggets will still be lucky to win this one.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm not saying I disagree. These are two bad defensive teams. But that said, it's hard to play defense when the refs change things up every other possession. Take the poor bastards guarding Melo. You beat him up in the first half, they don't call a foul. At the end of the third quarter you breath on him and he goes to the FT line.

We are now at 37 FTA each team, with most of the fourth quarter left. I have to hand it to Utah here. Terrific game they are playing. The Nuggets will still be lucky to win this one.

I agree

These refs have turned back in Utahs corner this quarter. Its sad refs can have this much control over an outcome. I have Utah +6 BTW.

[jbergey22]

Carmello is unstoppable going to the rim.

[jbergey22]

Ill bet JR Smith forces up a brick here.

[Chief Rum]

Kutcher needs to make this one.

[Chief Rum]

That was a...weird shot...by Chauncey.

[jbergey22]

Yeah Billups was a big part of this outcome. He made some bonehead decisions down the stretch.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That was a...weird shot...by Chauncey.

Nuggets go away from Melo in the final minutes and pay the price.

Jazz fully deserved the win because of their heart. . . but in no way did they deserve to get the calls they did in the second and fourth quarters. Melo fouls out again because of ridiculous offensive foul calls with guys flopping repeatedly.

I can't wait until Stern is out of the NBA. I'll leave it at that.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Nuggets go away from Melo in the final minutes and pay the price.

Jazz fully deserved the win because of their heart. . . but in no way did they deserve to get the calls they did in the second and fourth quarters. Melo fouls out again because of ridiculous offensive foul calls with guys flopping repeatedly.

I can't wait until Stern is out of the NBA. I'll leave it at that.

If it makes you feel any better with how well Utah played and how many calls they got they only won by 3. Id imagine Denver will take 1 of the next two in Utah and get their home court advantage back. I cant see the Jazz winning this series with their lack of depth. Williams and Boozer will be done by game 4.

[RainMaker]

David Stern isn't fixing Game 2 of a 1st round matchup that has little impact on their overall ratings.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

David Stern isn't fixing Game 2 of a 1st round matchup that has little impact on their overall ratings.

He never specifically tells refs to fix a game. He instructs the refs on what is good for business and how to be a good company man. Its not a fix its just keep the game close and let the players decide the outcome, wink, wink type of thing.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He never specifically tells refs to fix a game. He instructs the refs on what is good for business and how to be a good company man. Its not a fix its just keep the game close and let the players decide the outcome, wink, wink type of thing.

On game 2 of a first-round game?? If you think that, I don't know why you'd watch the NBA anymore.

[sterlingice]

I didn't see the game but I was just talking with some guys at work and looked at the box score. When Denver's starters have 5, 5, 6, 5, and 5 fouls at home while the Jazz only have 2 guys with 5 and everyone else has less, that looks really suspicious. With 5 fouls you can't play defense (not that the Nuggets usually do, but still) and every single starter had that

SI

[stevew]

It's also possible, and try to suspend the conspiracy theories here, that the Nuggets just need to move their feet a bit more on defense and stop reaching in? Foul calls being near even is not realistic.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He never specifically tells refs to fix a game. He instructs the refs on what is good for business and how to be a good company man. Its not a fix its just keep the game close and let the players decide the outcome, wink, wink type of thing.

I have no doubt he has had a role in the outcome of games, I'm just saying this wasn't one of them.

The refs were pretty atrocious although it seemed to play out for both teams. I thought Denver lost the game by not playing defense in the 1st half.

[whomario]

just watched the game and all i saw for the most part were 2 very pedestrian teams trying to compensate for it by going for reach after reach and hack after hack.
And 2 very good offensive teams taking advantage of it.

Refs tried to let it go, players took advantage and so the Refs tightened it up a bit.
You can´t call everything and every quarter equally because on the court every situation is (if only ever so slightly) different, have you ever tried officiating a game ?

The quality of play is the best we´ve seen in year and the referees aren´t half as bad as some make them out to be either. Never enjoyed the NBA more as a neutral fan with no definive team to root for.

Lebron took some idiotic shots yesterday, but as long as he makes them it´s a spectacular sight.

in semi-related news sure to get a response from a certain Nuggets fan : The Blazers are going to throw 20+ mio toward Marcus Camby for a 2 year extension ...
But hey, if Paul Allen is paying the bills it´s propably all the same if you are 20 or 30 mio over the cap in a couple years.
Best case he´s a great contributor next year and a valuable expiring the year after. Worst case, well i´ll let that blank for TroyF to fill in

[SirFozzie]

Wow: Celtics on a 21-0 run.

Miami only has one offensive board out of 27 opportunities. Insane.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Wow: Celtics on a 21-0 run.

Miami only has one offensive board out of 27 opportunities. Insane.

All the more reason for Wade to move back home to Chicago next season.

[SirFozzie]

the Heat except for D Wade are 16 for 53 or so tonight. I feel bad for him. Seriously.

[TroyF]

Listen, I don't think a "fix" was in for the game. I do think the game was "managed" to keep it close. Read what I wrote above. The officials did everything in their power to keep the game in hand. The Nuggets started off hot, they titled to the Jazz. The Jazz caught fire and the refs tilted to the Nuggets with some ridiculous calls. (sorry, but Melo took about 45 steps on his drive half court drive to the hoop. Melo got four FT in the third quarter because guys pushed him a little in the post. He got THREE offensive fouls in the Utah reffed section of the game when the Jazz were coming close to raping him on the court and he tried to stand up for position) Anyway, the Nuggets use their calls to take over the game and it looks like they are going to go nuts and win the game. The refs then start tilting to the Jazz for the first half of the fourth quarter. Some bizarre calls.

Then they ref it straight the last 4 to 6 minutes.

Now, a non fan will say that since it was close, the refs didn't have an impact. I'd argue strongly that we'll never know who would have had an impact because the natural runs of the game were being so managed. As the Nuggets were the home team and the heavy favorites due to the injuries the Jazz had, I think that way of reffing helped the Jazz and hurt the Nuggets badly.

Also, let me say that I don't hate Stern just because of the games he's rigged. Under his watch, he's allowed the refs to have a system in place where personality, team association and "star" power change the way the game is reffed. We all know Jordan's shot that beat the Jazz was an offensive foul on Mike. No, it wasn't "let the players play" BS, because that is NOT the way the game is played.

Stern has supported this and refused to change anything. Simply look at the refs assigned to games. I think it's a testament to the game of basketball that people haven't called him out on the carpet more. In just the last ten years we've had:

A phantom four point play, a game with the Lakers vs. TWolves where TWolve players were called for fouls when they never touched Laker players, a fourth quarter of game six between the Kings/Lakers that was so clearly rigged most Lakers fans apologized for getting the win, a Pistons/Lakers series where every 70/30 call for the Lakers went to the Pistons, a ref getting picked up on the mic asking a scorekeeper how many fouls Shaq had in a playoff game and a betting scandal where the ref in question and his mob connections confirmed he won tons of cash for people by simply knowing WHO was going to ref the game.

If the game can't be reffed with any degree of accuracy, you'd at least like to have some consistency. Last night, neither the Jazz, the Nuggets, or the fans had anything resembling consistency for 48 minutes. And that wasn't a special case. The fact it continues to be allowed to happen lies at the feet of David Stern. He did NOT fix that game last night. . . but his policies allowed it to be reffed the way it was. I cannot wait until he's history. He saved the game of basketball once, now he's doing everything in his power to destroy it.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by whomario

just watched the game and all i saw for the most part were 2 very pedestrian teams trying to compensate for it by going for reach after reach and hack after hack.
And 2 very good offensive teams taking advantage of it.

Refs tried to let it go, players took advantage and so the Refs tightened it up a bit.
You can´t call everything and every quarter equally because on the court every situation is (if only ever so slightly) different, have you ever tried officiating a game ?

The quality of play is the best we´ve seen in year and the referees aren´t half as bad as some make them out to be either. Never enjoyed the NBA more as a neutral fan with no definive team to root for.

Lebron took some idiotic shots yesterday, but as long as he makes them it´s a spectacular sight.

in semi-related news sure to get a response from a certain Nuggets fan : The Blazers are going to throw 20+ mio toward Marcus Camby for a 2 year extension ...
But hey, if Paul Allen is paying the bills it´s propably all the same if you are 20 or 30 mio over the cap in a couple years.
Best case he´s a great contributor next year and a valuable expiring the year after. Worst case, well i´ll let that blank for TroyF to fill in

From a Nuggets fans perspective? I love the signing. Give him tons of cash. I think it's a good idea.

[Neon_Chaos]

Another great 1st quarter from the Lakers.

Hope they don't drop off like they did in Game 1.

[stevew]

The Lakers have the best big people in this game(by far). The fact that it's a Kobe Show(and he's not even scoring at that efficient of a rate) instead of pounding it down to Gasol is a mistake.

[larrymcg421]

Love the announcers talking right through Kobe's missed free throw. I mean, it's not like the free throw made the difference between a 2 pt and 3 pt game.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Love the announcers talking right through Kobe's missed free throw. I mean, it's not like the free throw made the difference between a 2 pt and 3 pt game.

Or the Shannon Brown missed free throw that they were more concerned with showing Kobe talking to an assistant coach.

[whomario]

Scott Brooks lost that game ...

There was no reason to go away from Sefolosha and not at least play him 8 minutes or so in the 4th. Yeah he can´t score, blah blah blah ... They scored 47 in the first half and led by 2, Kobe shot like 5-14 or sth and didn´t get to the line much.
I just don´t get it why a coach would go away from the first priority, which is shutting Kobe down. Everything else will come, but first you have to stop Bryant. On a night where no one besides KObe and Gasol could make shots they allowed Bryant to beat Green off the drible and get to the line on fouls on late help.

aaargh ...

Gutsy effort by the Thunder as a team, great to watch as well. Could serve as a blueprint on how to use your athleticism to bother another teams inside attack. They allways put themselves in a position to block shots from an angle, thus not fouling despite really packing it in.
Ibaka was awesome, not just because of the blocked shots but because of his rotations and energy.

The 4th quarter lineup should have been Krstic/Ibaka/Durant/Sefolosha/Westbrook ...

Ron Artest with another great game defensively on Durant, wow did the big guy move his feet His offense is atrocious though, no one takes worse shots than him in the league, especially considering he´s not a good shooter to begin with.

Phoenix-Portland as to be expected, similar to how the Rockets would get blown out both times after stealing one from the Lakers.
Will be interesting what happens in Portland now.

[Neon_Chaos]

Kobe's Lakers make winning look so damn fucking hard.

[whomario]

synergysports now open to the public :

MySynergySports - Scout like the pros!

preview of some of the data, this years playoffs and ranking of the playoff teams based on their reg season data : Synergy Sports Technology 2010 NBA Playoff Reports

(f.e. that tells you that Denver uses Iso plays twice as often as San Antonio)


A service used by the vast majority of nba teams and scouts as well as european teams (synergy also scouts college games as sort of a contractor for Euro teams but also pages like draftexpress if i´m not mistaken)

they are also the guys behind nba live´s tendencies (hate that game, but the tendencies are great) and also the source that gets named all the time when writers want to show they´ve been doing their homework and is also the service used by a great variety of NBA teams.

As far as i understand it, it includes video breakdowns of every players plays from every game broken down into the various types of plays. So if you want to see all of Duncan´s post up plays or all of Nash´s Pick & Roll plays from a certain game or all of Shane Battiers iso defense on Kobe in a game, you can apparently see them bound together in a video.

Or all of a certain players plays of the whole season, see here :



All 899 postups by Howard for the regular season easily accessible.

Don´t know if you can also see full games on replay (but sounds like it), then it´d be propably worth the 30 dollars just for that option unless you have league pass.

It´s 30 dollar for access until Sept 30th, guess there will be a season package for next season after that.

A lot of the stats are way to advanced/broken down so that the differences seem rather small (also by virtue of an 82 game season that evens stuff out), but the video feature alone sound highly intriguing to have.

To be able to access every play by every player for the whole season and have it broken down for you allready ? Awesome even as "just" a fan. Will definitely sign up to test this until september.

[molson]

Wow.

I'd love sortable access to referee calls and non-calls. Though I think the internet might explode if that happened.

[DaddyTorgo]

Wow - that's pretty awesome!

[TroyF]

I'll be purchasing it today. No questions asked. It would be fun if a few of us did it and we can rate some of the calls and see if we all agree on calls during certain points of a game.

[whomario]

of course we could also concentrate on certain players actions, abilities and tendencies ... that really is the great thing about that tool.

Just saying

[whomario]

I love it allready.

Take the teams opponents Points per Play.

Suns : Bad defenders overall but definitely show effort and scramble a lot, also terrible against dribble penetration. Stats : 28th in the league in defending Isolation, 30th defending the ball handler on PnRs.
But ok (14th) defending the screener and apparently the best team in the league (!!) in Points per Play on opposing spot up shots.
Makes sense.

Or the Thunder :

Leading the league defending isolation plays, slightly above average defending the PnR, but only 23rd on opposing Post up Plays. Again, just what you are seeing from them.

[k0ruptr]

thats pretty damn awesome.

[Neuqua]

Is there a way to just try it out? This could be right up my alley, or something I won't touch after the first use.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by whomario

of course we could also concentrate on certain players actions, abilities and tendencies ... that really is the great thing about that tool.

Just saying

I'm all about doing both. Take the stats you just showed, none of them surprised me that much. What would be nice is to look at the clips of a series of samples to show WHY they aren't good. Obviously, they may not have good post up defenders, but what happens when they double? Is the double slow or quick?

And when you look at offensive foul stats, what kind of offensive fouls are they getting? What does the video show?

The ability to isolate plays to look for reasons the teams are succeeding or sucking as well as look at how individual plays are being called is going to be fascinating to me.

[Neuqua]

I still don't hold much faith of us even winning this game, but if what I've seen from Derrick Rose tonight is a preview of what is to come, I am really excited. The guy is unguardable.

[Neuqua]

Luol gets his revenge on LeBron, for one play atleast.

God I wish I was at the United Center.

[Neuqua]

This has turned into the Lebron James vs. Derrick Rose show.

Hoping the Bulls can hold on.

[Scoobz0202]

Nice armbar, Noah.

[TroyF]

OK, whomario and everyone else who is saying the Cavs are going to the finals, answer me these questions:

1) The Cavs are up 2-1 in the series now, but outside of a Lebron James freakshow fourth quarter (and game for that matter) and Moon hitting more threes in a game than he ever did, you do realize the Bulls would be up 2-1, right?

2) The Bulls have scored 100+ on the Cavs two straight games and don't have a dominant low post player OR a single three point shooter. How do you explain this? Is this simply a matchup problem? (because from where I sit, the Magic aren't going to have trouble putting up points on this team at all)

3) Doesn't it seem a lot like last year in the fact that if Bron doesn't go 100% off, the Cavs can't will struggle to win any game? And even when he does, the three point shooting might not be good enough?

I dunno. I've watched all three Bulls/Cavs games in full. I've thought Cleveland looked like a championship team for all of two quarters. (#1 in game 1, #4 in game 2) I'm not saying they can't win the title. I am asking how the team I've watched in these three games is considered unbeatable by some people.

FWIW, one hell of a choke job attempted by the Bulls there.

[RainMaker]

Just got back from the game. Holy shit. Crowd was really amped all night.

[TroyF]

OKC up by four with the ball. Ibaka jacks up an 18 foot jump shot. Seriously? I mean, REALLY? Good lord.

He then fouls on the other end. Gasol hits two FT and then Artest commits what is either a stupid foul or a horrific call, I'm not really sure which. Durant gets two FT and the Thunder are up four with under a minute to go.

[whomario]

So you pick on the one bad sequence he had all night or basically all series long ? He´s having a hell of a series for a rookie big man and is OKCs best 4/5 so far.
Finally tonight the Lakers biggest weakness gets exposed, their horrific bench. Harden +12, Ibaka +8, Collison +19.
Both him and Collison played great defense in the Post. You could make a "how to defend bigger guys down low" education tape from this game. Great fronting defense with good timing to it, preventing and disrupting lob passes by rotating, challenging shots without fouling, showing on screens.

Still it´s unexcusable that Gasol/Bynum don´t get more shots/touches than they do, only Kobe ...

Good to see Durant get in there and get rebounds (19 of them) and playing pretty damn good defense on Bryant in the 4th. Great showing.
Westbrook was great also, truly fearless (remember that dunk attempt he had in game 2 ?)

The crowd was great !

As for the Cavs : Come on now, there´s more than a few finals teams that had problems in earlier rounds. Can´t comment further as i haven´t (yet) seen the game

Phoenix with a nice little blitzkrieg-attack on the Blazers, up 27 at the half leading to the easy win.
Jason Richardson couldn´t miss

Batum out with a shoulder injury. Nice attempt at toughness gone bad ... (injured it last game allready)
What a year ...
Couldn´t believe their fans were booing their team at half time ? Come on, be real now ... Made up for it with great 4th quarter cheering.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

On game 2 of a first-round game?? If you think that, I don't know why you'd watch the NBA anymore.

Actually I really dont watch the NBA unless I have some sort of bet on it. I care more about my bets and my fantasy players more than the teams. Its former refs that have said this happens it isnt something I dreamed up. Troy makes some great points as well.

Stern is all about creating entertainment, he could give a shit less about the game of basketball. He should be a movie director and not the NBA commish.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by whomario

So you pick on the one bad sequence he had all night or basically all series long ? He´s having a hell of a series for a rookie big man and is OKCs best 4/5 so far.
Finally tonight the Lakers biggest weakness gets exposed, their horrific bench. Harden +12, Ibaka +8, Collison +19.
Both him and Collison played great defense in the Post. You could make a "how to defend bigger guys down low" education tape from this game. Great fronting defense with good timing to it, preventing and disrupting lob passes by rotating, challenging shots without fouling, showing on screens.

Still it´s unexcusable that Gasol/Bynum don´t get more shots/touches than they do, only Kobe ...

Good to see Durant get in there and get rebounds (19 of them) and playing pretty damn good defense on Bryant in the 4th. Great showing.
Westbrook was great also, truly fearless (remember that dunk attempt he had in game 2 ?)

The crowd was great !

As for the Cavs : Come on now, there´s more than a few finals teams that had problems in earlier rounds. Can´t comment further as i haven´t (yet) seen the game

Phoenix with a nice little blitzkrieg-attack on the Blazers, up 27 at the half leading to the easy win.
Jason Richardson couldn´t miss

Batum out with a shoulder injury. Nice attempt at toughness gone bad ... (injured it last game allready)
What a year ...
Couldn´t believe their fans were booing their team at half time ? Come on, be real now ... Made up for it with great 4th quarter cheering.

My comment on Ibaka wasn't meant to be anything other than a WTF, are you kidding me? comment. He's played great this series and I'm actually becoming a fan. (slowly, but surely) Jeff Green? I'm convinced they'll never win anything as long as he's in the starting lineup.

As for the Cavs, it's not just that they lost a game (I wouldn't have cared if they'd won last night). My problem is that these are the same exact issues that plagued them last year. Acftually, that's not fair. Last year the only remotely close game they had in rounds one and two was game 4 vs. Atlanta where the Hawks got to within 5 points with 1:39 left in the game.

What did the Cavs do poorly against Orlando?

1) They couldn't stop them. Orlando scored over 100 in four of the six games. (99 in one and 95 in the other) Chicago has scored over 100 in two of the three games. We can all agree that Chicago is not an offensive powerhouse, right? That they can't even come close to spreading the floor like Orlando can. Correct?

2) Nobody stepping up outside of Lebron. Only one Cav in three games not named Lebron has scored 20 or more points. That was Moe Williams who hit a couple of ridiculous threes in the rally last night. In both games 2 and 3, the only thing keeping the Cavs in the game was Bron going into freak mode. In game two they needed the help of Moon having a career night to supplement James, something that likely isn't going to be repeated again. James is an absolute stud. He can win games by himself. He isn't going to beat Orlando (or even a beat up Boston for that matter) without some help from his friends.

You can have your opinions, but this looks different than the Lakers or Celtics to me. The Celtics had a young PG playing on the road in the playoffs for the first time. They ripped Atlanta in every home game and lost all of the road games by under 5 points. It was pathetic, but they simply played like they didn't give a shit against Houston last year. They destroyed Houston in the four wins and only showed up for one of the losses.

This? I don't think the Cavs need experience. I also don't think they've "tanked" it in any game this series.

Best case is this: They are learning to play with Shaq again, Jamison is finding his role in the playoffs, the defense has had a couple of off games and everything will be fine.

I thought they had issues coming into the playoffs and this isn't exactly causing me to rethink that. The Bulls are finding it easy to score points and they finished 28th in offensive efficiency. Orlando finished 3rd. The Bulls have taken other Cavs out of their games and they finished 10th in defensive efficiency. Orlando finished in a tie for first.

Don't get me wrong. . . the Cavs have the talent to win it all. I'm just saying I think those of us who said there were issues weren't just being idiots in saying it. They have issues that need to be looked at.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Don't get me wrong. . . the Cavs have the talent to win it all. I'm just saying I think those of us who said there were issues weren't just being idiots in saying it. They have issues that need to be looked at.

Hey, i never said you were an idiot.... out loud
I would have to go back to what exactly the gist was but i don´t think they are the big favourites either. Just that they have at least as good a chance at beating Orlando as it is the other way round.

Again, unfortunately couldn´t yet see anything fro last nights game and didn´t see a ton from game 2, so i really can´t get into any arguments on the Cavs right now.


As for Ibaka : Was meant more in a kind of way, realize this was a live-game-comment by you

Green : Thunder are playing 4 on 5 with him on the court. They do that on offense with Sefolosha as well (who can be effective against other opponents, but not the way the Lakers play defense), but with Green it is on both sides of the ball at time.
He really can´t guard Bynum/Gasol, he can´t guard Kobe either and you really don´t have to guard Artest right now ...
Might as well play Harden on him, either Artest goes inside, closes the lane further and hits like 40% on his ugly postshots or he continues to chuck up bad 3s.

The lakers are seeing exactly why he can´t be called upon offensively, ever. His defense has been spectacular on Durant, but 3-19 from 3 has got to be a cruel practical joke he´s playing or sth ...

He is maybe the only player in the NBA who does this one particular move :

1) spot up for 3
2) get the ball wide open
3) look up
4) see defender 10 feet away
5) take 1 dribble to the left
6) see defender right in front
7) shoot contested 3 fading to his left

worst shooting habit in the history of the game. And he´s doing that 2 or 3 times a game at least.

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by TroyF

My comment on Ibaka wasn't meant to be anything other than a WTF, are you kidding me? comment.

In fairness to Troy here, I screamed at the television for the exact same reason.

What an incredible night for fans of Oklahoma sports. Sooners throughout the first round, including 3 of the first 4 picks (2 of which are from right here in OKC). Then we get our first home playoff game for the Thunder and a great win as well.

Going to the game 4 tomorrow night and am extremely pumped that we were able to get that one. This makes game 4 huge. I'll do my part in making sure the crowd is as outstanding as it was last night.