POL: February Console sales numbers

[Fidatelo]

Can some mod change Mizzou B-ball fan's title from "College Prospect" to "Bob Cole" please?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Looks like Best Buy is going to stop selling the 20gb version of the PS3. Could Sony just be cutting its losses and going full bore, or is it just Best Buy giving up on that model.

There's no reason to even have that 20 GB model. It's a bastardized version of the system and if you're going to pay to get a PS3, you'd be an idiot not to get the 60 GB version with the wireless connection. That's more of a consumer reaction than anything else. Sony and Best Buy are just reacting to the consumers, who obviously prefer the 60 GB model. I'm sure it won't bother Sony as they can have a more streamlined process as the 20 GB model is phased out.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

$340 60 GB PS3 in Canada with any 10 used games? Someone should give this a whirl. Great deal.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2...what-deal.html

And a post from Bill absolutely blasting the Wii Tiger Woods game and the people who make excuses for third party Wii games......

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2...er-things.html

Then I tried Tiger Woods for the Wii. People need to stop complaining that third-party titles aren't selling well on the Wii, because they would sell if somebody made a decent game. Tiger Woods does some interesting things to utilize the Wii controller, but to me, Wii Sports provides a better swing experience, and much better putting, than freaking Tiger Woods does.

And it looks like absolute ass. Here's a note to all third-party software developers: the fact that the Wii isn't a 360 or a PS3 is no excuse to make your Wii games look like PS2 games from 2002.

What's really disappointing about this is that the Wii is capable of excellent graphics--again, Wii Sports is a good example. The golf courses looked bright and vibrant. EA, though, wants to port instead of starting fresh, and the graphics look very, very weak.

Also weak are the ball physics, which are, in a word, crap.

Here's the way to make Tiger Woods a huge hit on the Wii, and EA will never do it: use real courses, but present them with the same kind of vibrant graphics Nintendo used on the Wii Sports golf courses. And make Mii's for all the professional golfers. So it's a serious golf simulation, and the course dimensions are accurate, but the graphics have a cartoon edge to them.

Oh, and fix the damn putting. Tiger Woods for the PC used to have the best putting model I've ever seen--it was absolutely fantastic. But when a game keeps getting released every year, even the features that work perfectly are going to get changed, and they'll wind up broken.

That's what happened to putting.

It used to be perfectly, absolutely smooth, but on the 360 version this year, Tiger's follow-through looks like he's trying to lag a twenty-footer when he's tapping in a two-foot putt, and on the Wii, both the animations and the effort required just look and feel wrong.

But I digress.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

$340 60 GB PS3 in Canada with any 10 used games? Someone should give this a whirl. Great deal.

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2...what-deal.html

And a post from Bill absolutely blasting the Wii Tiger Woods game and the people who make excuses for third party Wii games......

http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2...er-things.html

I'm not much interested in the PS3 being quite happy with my PS2, but a price of $340 is almost tempting. The problem is that I don't buy enough games to have 10 PS2 games bought within the last 12 months, let alone 10 I would be willing to part with.

I find the Tiger Woods blog to be interesting. Does he really think people want to buy a Tiger Woods game with cartoon graphics? I can see where it might be fun that way, but why not just make it a Mario Golf game then? EA Sports is all about pretty games, and TW is no different. Complaining about the graphics on a game like this seeme pretty silly. The system can do what it can do and people aren't going to want a cartoon from Tiger Woods.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

No, he's not saying that at all. He's saying that if Nintendo can produce vivid courses for its Wii Sports games, there's no reason that EA can't go back and clean up its courses to make them look good even in 480p. It's really not a surprise that they didn't do that. I even mentioned earlier in this thread that EA would port it over without anything new other than a new control mechanism.

He isn't?

Here's the way to make Tiger Woods a huge hit on the Wii, and EA will never do it: use real courses, but present them with the same kind of vibrant graphics Nintendo used on the Wii Sports golf courses. And make Mii's for all the professional golfers. So it's a serious golf simulation, and the course dimensions are accurate, but the graphics have a cartoon edge to them.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BrianD

He isn't?

I reread and retracted. My opinion is different than Bill's in that regard. They should just bother to upgrade the game IMO, which they didn't.

[spleen1015]

Fact - Sony is in a deep hole, Microsoft is winning, and Nintendo knows what the hell their doing. Regardless, we, the gamers, win!

YTBD - Who wins

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I reread and retracted. My opinion is different than Bill's in that regard. They should just bother to upgrade the game IMO, which they didn't.

I would agree with your disagreement with Bill, but it doesn't surprise me that EA didn't touch the game during the port. It would be nice if they smoothed out the graphics, but I can't believe it would increase their profits with the game. This is one of those cases where business always comes ahead of the customers. I don't know the numbers, but it has to be fairly expensive to bring a development team back in and re-do the graphics.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BrianD

This is one of those cases where business always comes ahead of the customers. I don't know the numbers, but it has to be fairly expensive to bring a development team back in and re-do the graphics.

Well, we can only hope that the consumers vote with their wallets and don't buy the game. If the Wii continues to be the system of ports, they're going to have a hard time keeping their momentum. It's a shame, because there is opportunity to create games that could really show off the system, but developers are taking the low road thus far.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I talk to our developers all the time, we make games for both the 360 and PS3, and none of them seems to think there's much of an advantage from a game perspective of the larger capacity of the Blu-Ray disks. Our developers are worrying about displaying all of the content we'd like to have in our game (i.e. the limits imposed by RAM, the GPU and CPU); disk-space on the DVD isn't even on the radar as a concern.

I'll back dawgfan on this one. It costs an arm-and-a-leg to produce DVD-sized content as it is. I don't know if anyone can afford to make a game that fills either of the Hi-Def formats (barring someone making one of those pre-rendered cut-scene only games that were popular a decade or so ago).

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Well, we can only hope that the consumers vote with their wallets and don't buy the game. If the Wii continues to be the system of ports, they're going to have a hard time keeping their momentum. It's a shame, because there is opportunity to create games that could really show off the system, but developers are taking the low road thus far.

I'd agree with that to a point. The thing you are missing is the titles Nintendo will put out themselves. Also, some of the ports are going to work.

Madden for the Wii is better than any other system because of the "fun" factor. It looks like SSX and Tiger missed, but it's the first generation of games for the system. (I didn't purchase either game by the way) I'd expect the games will get better, but it's just a guess. For me, with the price point where it was and the games I KNOW will be good (Wii Sports and Twilight Princess already, Metroid/Mario games/and others on the way) this is still a great system.

The amazing thing to me is playing a game like God of War II. I look at the graphics, load times and controls on an "old" system, and find very little there to tell me the Wii can't produce the same if they choose to. It also tells me there isn't a lot of need for BluRay in gaming. Just my opinion though, I could be wrong.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The amazing thing to me is playing a game like God of War II. I look at the graphics, load times and controls on an "old" system, and find very little there to tell me the Wii can't produce the same if they choose to. It also tells me there isn't a lot of need for BluRay in gaming. Just my opinion though, I could be wrong.

That argument concerning improvement of technology is an old one. It doesn't usually pan out. People played the PS1 for an extended period of time after the PS2 was released and said the same thing. If there isn't a demand for increased system horsepower, the companies wouldn't be producing new systems like the 360 and PS3. If there wasn't a demand, graphics card companies wouldn't be putting out a new and better model every few months.

What we're seeing now is a lot of people reacting adversely to the high price point by Sony. As a result, more of them are making the move to a late adopter and sticking with the old system for awhile. At some point, that will change and late adopters will enter the market. The numbers that make that change and when will be a telling thing. There's a lot of good games coming onto the PS3 system right now. The March and April sales numbers will be telling as to whether that helped the PS3. The attach rates for February were a good early sign for Sony and I'm sure they're hoping that continues.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Madden for the Wii is better than any other system because of the "fun" factor. It looks like SSX and Tiger missed, but it's the first generation of games for the system. (I didn't purchase either game by the way) I'd expect the games will get better, but it's just a guess. For me, with the price point where it was and the games I KNOW will be good (Wii Sports and Twilight Princess already, Metroid/Mario games/and others on the way) this is still a great system.

This is where I think there's some truth to the 'gimmick' statements. Nintendo is already doing a great job making games that utilize the capabilities of the Wii, but 3rd party developers seem to be trying for force things. They really don't know how to incorporate the nunchuck into games, they just know they're supposed to.

Whether its a fair statement or not, it'll stick until someone besides Nintendo steps up and makes a solid game that shows off what the system is capable of.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That argument concerning improvement of technology is an old one. It doesn't usually pan out. People played the PS1 for an extended period of time after the PS2 was released and said the same thing. If there isn't a demand for increased system horsepower, the companies wouldn't be producing new systems like the 360 and PS3. If there wasn't a demand, graphics card companies wouldn't be putting out a new and better model every few months.

What we're seeing now is a lot of people reacting adversely to the high price point by Sony. As a result, more of them are making the move to a late adopter and sticking with the old system for awhile. At some point, that will change and late adopters will enter the market. The numbers that make that change and when will be a telling thing. There's a lot of good games coming onto the PS3 system right now. The March and April sales numbers will be telling as to whether that helped the PS3. The attach rates for February were a good early sign for Sony and I'm sure they're hoping that continues.

As usual, per the thread, you missed my entire point. It's not about system horsepower. . . of course we all want more. It was about BluRay being needed for higher end graphics and space.

It isn't needed and won't be utilized for years, if ever.

There is no good way to spin Sony's numbers for February. I'm sorry, there just isn't.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

As usual, per the thread, you missed my entire point. It's not about system horsepower. . . of course we all want more. It was about BluRay being needed for higher end graphics and space.

It's the same thing. At some point, that space will be needed and used. 5 years ago, we couldn't have imagined how far technology would have advanced. Certainly, we can debate whether Sony is jumping TOO far ahead of the curve and whether they created a storage medium that won't be needed. The PS2 ran into storage problems a bit too early in my opinion.

Allowing too much space in a storage medium to allow the room that might be needed in the future doesn't seem like a bad gamble to me. Past consoles have never run into the problem of having too much room on the storage medium. If the PS3 still has excess room halfway through its life cycle, then you might have a point. But it's far too early to make that assertion at this point.

[Big Fo]

I think that Tiger on the Wii has been treated rather harshly by some reviewers and messageboard posters, who might have been too accustomed to how piss easy the game normally was with an analog stick. The first round I played I was all over the course, three-putting greens, and shot in the high 80s but by the third round I was breaking par. The putting is tricky on occasion and I do over/undershoot the hole by ten feet at times which is frustrating but I'm to the point where I still one-putt most holes and putting isn't supposed to be easy anyhow. The graphics are poor but this isn't a big deal in a golf game IMO.

It's a lot more fun shooting realistic scores with the Wiimote than shooting 56 with an analog stick.

As for the PS3, yeah it looks like a bad deal at the moment but hopefully things will pick up to the point where buying one is worth it, mainly because I like the region-free aspect of it. Were I to get one, there would be no more waiting six to twelve months for the new Winning Eleven/Pro Evolution Soccer to come out in the US. But I'm willing to wait a year or so and hope for some kind of price drop.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It's the same thing. At some point, that space will be needed and used. 5 years ago, we couldn't have imagined how far technology would have advanced. Certainly, we can debate whether Sony is jumping TOO far ahead of the curve and whether they created a storage medium that won't be needed. The PS2 ran into storage problems a bit too early in my opinion.

Allowing too much space in a storage medium to allow the room that might be needed in the future doesn't seem like a bad gamble to me. Past consoles have never run into the problem of having too much room on the storage medium. If the PS3 still has excess room halfway through its life cycle, then you might have a point. But it's far too early to make that assertion at this point.

From a purely technological point of view, there is certainly merit to being prepared for future technological advances. However, from a business point of view there is also a need to make money now, and to develop an installed user base to sell stuff to, and Sony is failing miserably in that regard. It doesn't matter if the PS3 is a technological terror compared to the 360 in 2 or 3 years -- if Sony doesn't start selling more units NOW, the 360 will have a user base that's so much bigger that it won't matter. All of the technological features in the world don't matter unless they are transferred into actual advantages and into United States dollars, Japanese yen, or Europeans euros.

From the business perspective Sony has dug themselves a huge hole. They have a system that is very impressive, but is also very expensive and doesn't offer features that people actually find a need for (see Vista). The hi-def DVD movement seems unlikely to take off in the same manner that the DVD market originally did, because DVDs replaced a format that was cubersome and prone to error, while hi-def DVD replaces a format that people already like. This will limit the appeal of the PS3 as a movie device. The fact that the Blu-ray player massively increased the price caused even more of a backlash because of the PS3s other problem -- there aren't games on it people want! At least that aren't already available for the much wildly owned 360. Until they release multiple exclusive killer app games the PS3 is going to have a hard time gaining population traction.

And remember, the 360 has these sales advantages....and they haven't released Halo 3 yet. Just think about what that will do for 360 sales numbers, especially if there is a price drop any time before or within 3-6 months of the launch.

[Icy]

4 days to the release in Spain, let's see March numbers as should be interesting once the PS3 reach their prime market, Europe. In Spain a 86% of the consoles are from Sony right now (PS1/PS2/PSP) and 80,000 Ps3 consoles will arrive in Spain for the release day.

You can't buy them anywhere in Spain now as all them have been preordered so I expect a 70,000 raise for the PS3 sales number from 23th (let's say those other 10k PS3 are in some remote stores who didn't take preorders).

Sony has pissed all the Euro customers, but customers forgets soon.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

It doesn't matter if the PS3 is a technological terror compared to the 360 in 2 or 3 years -- if Sony doesn't start selling more units NOW, the 360 will have a user base that's so much bigger that it won't matter.

The line that Sony needs the PS3 to succeed NOW is the part that I keep wondering about. It's not like gaming is all they've got as an income source. Say they take a bloodbath on the PS3 for another year. Does that mean the system is dead? That it can't be profitable after that? That developers will give up on it?

Specifically, what happens to doom the PS3 is if it doesn't sell well this year?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

From a purely technological point of view, there is certainly merit to being prepared for future technological advances. However, from a business point of view there is also a need to make money now, and to develop an installed user base to sell stuff to, and Sony is failing miserably in that regard. It doesn't matter if the PS3 is a technological terror compared to the 360 in 2 or 3 years -- if Sony doesn't start selling more units NOW, the 360 will have a user base that's so much bigger that it won't matter. All of the technological features in the world don't matter unless they are transferred into actual advantages and into United States dollars, Japanese yen, or Europeans euros.

And remember, the 360 has these sales advantages....and they haven't released Halo 3 yet. Just think about what that will do for 360 sales numbers, especially if there is a price drop any time before or within 3-6 months of the launch.

I agree with the obvious situation regarding the PS3 finances. The drop of the 20 GB machine will help as they were making $65 less per sale on that machine than a 60 GB machine.

I don't buy the argument regarding the sales of the 360. Even with the slow sales of the PS3, the 360 hasn't been flying off the shelves either. While the new Halo game may boost 360 sales marginally, it should be noted that Sony hasn't released any of its major franchises yet either. Those games will give the PS3 a boost when they are released as they will be the first iteration on the new console.

You can bookmark this post if you feel the need, but I feel pretty safe in saying that the PS3 will have significantly closed the gap in consoles worldwide by the end of this holiday season. If so, MS will have no one to blame but themselves for failing to kill-shot the PS3 when it was down.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Icy

You can't buy them anywhere in Spain now as all them have been preordered so I expect a 70,000 raise for the PS3 sales number from 23th (let's say those other 10k PS3 are in some remote stores who didn't take preorders).

The European release PS3's are mostly spoke for at this point. Sony is expecting the whole release quantity of 1 million in Europe to sell right away.

[14ers]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

From the business perspective Sony has dug themselves a huge hole. They have a system that is very impressive, but is also very expensive and doesn't offer features that people actually find a need for (see Vista).

I like HD movies. Welcome to 2007!

In 2007 Sony has a huge hit on their hand with their Blu-ray format. 1080P TVs are now becomming standard in every home and Blu-ray discs are becomming available everywhere. Sony needed to put a Blu-ray player in their gaming machine to push their Blu-ray format. Without the built in Blu-ray player Sony might have sold more PS3s, but lost the HD DVD race.

They may have dug themselves a huge hole, but if they can win the next movie format it will mean huge numbers for them down the road. If Blu-ray is here to stay so is the PS3.

I bought my Blu-ray player and received a free PS3 with it.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

The hi-def DVD movement seems unlikely to take off in the same manner that the DVD market originally did, because DVDs replaced a format that was cubersome and prone to error, while hi-def DVD replaces a format that people already like. This will limit the appeal of the PS3 as a movie device.

Very interesting take and one that I think has some merit. I remember how impressed I was with the jump from VHS to DVD's and no longer having to rewind, have issues with adjusting tracking, etc. Mrs. Eaglesfan and I talked about it and we just aren't in a hurry to jump into the HD Movie market until a) we see which format wins and b) it becomes more reasonably priced. We could afford to do so now, but there is not that big motivation like there was with VHS to DVD's because even standard DVD's already look great on our HDTV which has upscaling as one of its features.

If we buy a PS3 this year (which is still possible), it won't be because we want the Blu Ray player.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by 14ers

I like HD movies. Welcome to 2007!

In 2007 Sony has a huge hit on their hand with their Blu-ray format. 1080P TVs are now becomming standard in every home and Blu-ray discs are becomming available everywhere. Sony needed to put a Blu-ray player in their gaming machine to push their Blu-ray format. Without the built in Blu-ray player Sony might have sold more PS3s, but lost the HD DVD race.

They may have dug themselves a huge hole, but if they can win the next movie format it will mean huge numbers for them down the road. If Blu-ray is here to stay so is the PS3.

They will very likely win the battle with HD-DVD in the new DVD format war. But the question is, how long will that victory last? Broadband connections are becoming the norm for most households, and services are now available for consumers to download HD movies (as with Xbox Live, and others to come). I wonder if winning this format war will end up being profitable for Sony in the end given the hit they're taking on the PS3 side currently, and the possibility that downloading movies (legally) will carve deeply into sales of Blu-Ray DVD's.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Very interesting take and one that I think has some merit. I remember how impressed I was with the jump from VHS to DVD's and no longer having to rewind, have issues with adjusting tracking, etc. Mrs. Eaglesfan and I talked about it and we just aren't in a hurry to jump into the HD Movie market until a) we see which format wins and b) it becomes more reasonably priced. We could afford to do so now, but there is not that big motivation like there was with VHS to DVD's because even standard DVD's already look great on our HDTV which has upscaling as one of its features.

If we buy a PS3 this year (which is still possible), it won't be because we want the Blu Ray player.

I am very much of the same opinion. I was an early adopter for DVDs and have a pretty big library now, but I don't really see the need to jump to a HD format. There is a small increase in picture quality and the HD-DVD player I saw had some interesting features, but the gain in quality isn't worth the price. I probably won't get a HD player until my current player dies and a new player is close to the price of a regular DVD player.

I also have no interest in combining a gaming console and a movie player, so the PS3/Blu-Ray combo is a negative for me.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by 14ers

I like HD movies. Welcome to 2007!

In 2007 Sony has a huge hit on their hand with their Blu-ray format. 1080P TVs are now becomming standard in every home and Blu-ray discs are becomming available everywhere. Sony needed to put a Blu-ray player in their gaming machine to push their Blu-ray format. Without the built in Blu-ray player Sony might have sold more PS3s, but lost the HD DVD race.

They may have dug themselves a huge hole, but if they can win the next movie format it will mean huge numbers for them down the road. If Blu-ray is here to stay so is the PS3.

I bought my Blu-ray player and received a free PS3 with it.

At a retail level 1080p tv's basically can't be had for much less than 1500, and more realistically closer to 2000. We probably sell at least 15 720s for every 1080 set where I work, and that's a conservative estimate. Although the changeover in the sku of the SXRD has pretty much eliminated all of the 1080p sales over the past month. In short, far far from standard.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The European release PS3's are mostly spoke for at this point. Sony is expecting the whole release quantity of 1 million in Europe to sell right away.

It'd be a lot more interesting to debate if you didn't buy everything Sony says hook, line and sinker.

Sony expected a lot of things to happen that haven't happened yet. That's part of the entire disaster, Sony has been making false promises and spin to showcase a lot of things.

On the positive side, they shouldn't have any problems getting the million units to Europe. All they'll have to do is tak the consoles people in the US aren't buying and ship them overseas.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

It'd be a lot more interesting to debate if you didn't buy everything Sony says hook, line and sinker.

Sony expected a lot of things to happen that haven't happened yet. That's part of the entire disaster, Sony has been making false promises and spin to showcase a lot of things.

On the positive side, they shouldn't have any problems getting the million units to Europe. All they'll have to do is tak the consoles people in the US aren't buying and ship them overseas.

Cute comeback, but not accurate. The information has mostly come from retailers, not Sony. It doesn't take a doctorate to figure out what information is accurate and what is mostly PR talk by Sony execs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

At a retail level 1080p tv's basically can't be had for much less than 1500, and more realistically closer to 2000. We probably sell at least 15 720s for every 1080 set where I work, and that's a conservative estimate. Although the changeover in the sku of the SXRD has pretty much eliminated all of the 1080p sales over the past month. In short, far far from standard.

That will change in the very near future. The mandated digital switch is quickly approaching.

http://news.com.com/Digital+TV+switc...3-6004429.html

There's obviously going to be a major rush during the 2008 holiday season, but I would expect a major marketing push in the 2007 holiday season by the retailers noting that the deadline is approaching and it's a good time to upgrade that old TV before it becomes useless.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FYI to European posters who are buying or considering buying the PS3. The backward compatibility list is now available. 1,845 of the 2,451 PS2 titles will be playable on the PS3 with more expected to be added in upcoming firmware updates.

http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Cute comeback, but not accurate. The information has mostly come from retailers, not Sony. It doesn't take a doctorate to figure out what information is accurate and what is mostly PR talk by Sony execs.

Actually, it seems to for the Sony Fanboys who keep trying to pretend this launch has been anything but an unmitigated disaster.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Actually, it seems to for the Sony Fanboys who keep trying to pretend this launch has been anything but an unmitigated disaster.

Perhaps you have better information? The information currently out there is that all 1 million of the European launch units will sell out. By all means, if you have better information, post it rather than continuing to make this into some sort of a PS3 witch hunt.

[Coder]

Scandinavian distributor for PS3 was interviewed in one of the largest newspapers today, stating that "it will be hard to get a PS3 at launch, even if you've booked in advance."

This prompted an article by another newspaper where they've contacted several major retailers asking to book a PS3 (release Friday). Just about every retailer they contacted (Webhallen.se, MediaMarkt, OnOff etc), says that if you book today, you're still guaranteed a machine.

Interesting.

Personally, I managed to get a hold of a Wii today.. been trying for the past 2 months but there simply haven't been any available. The Wii will be a nice complement to my 360, which for now is being used like once a month, and will serve more as a "fun" machine.. parties and stuff.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Coder

Scandinavian distributor for PS3 was interviewed in one of the largest newspapers today, stating that "it will be hard to get a PS3 at launch, even if you've booked in advance."

This prompted an article by another newspaper where they've contacted several major retailers asking to book a PS3 (release Friday). Just about every retailer they contacted (Webhallen.se, MediaMarkt, OnOff etc), says that if you book today, you're still guaranteed a machine.

Interesting.

Yep, that's generally what's been circulated through the media. Two separate outlets in southern Europe said that roughly 95% of the PS3's are pre-ordered and they expect any leftovers to quickly be purchased on launch day. Sounds pretty reasonable given the input of the European posters in this and other threads. Obviously, they'll have the firm numbers later this week to remove any question about the actual number.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Perhaps you have better information? The information currently out there is that all 1 million of the European launch units will sell out. By all means, if you have better information, post it rather than continuing to make this into some sort of a PS3 witch hunt.

Yeah, I'm making it out to be a witch hunt. Reporting actual facts is always a witch hunt, right? The post right below this has very similar information to the US launch. The distributor saying all PS3's are accounted for and then papers saying if you order one today, you are locked into getting one on Friday.

The two statements don't go hand in hand. If they are all spoken for or only a handfull will be left, how could they have contacted three major distributors and have confirmation that if you order one today, you have one on Friday? How is that possible?

Lets face it, the Europe launch is likely to be very similar to the US launch. A huge opening couple of months followed quickly by tons of systems being on the shelf. It hasn't went well in Japan or the US and suddenly Europe is going to be the savior?

Please, spin that anyway you like, it's insanity. You do realize everytime you call me out as a Sony witch hunt specialist, people have the ability to go back and look at old posts and see where I've said I'll eventually pick up a PS3, right? I mean, if I were a Sony hater, why would I ever consider picking up one?

Stop getting defensive and start realizing they've botched this. They may recover, they may become #1 again in a year or two. (I think that's about as likely as a comet smashing into the Earth, but anything is possible) Sony lost Devil May Cry series as an exclusive yesterday. The exclusives are dropping off the map, left and right. Things are getting worse and worse for them by the day.

The spin factor is insane right now. We'll see how Sony actually does in Europe. The key is two or three months from tomorrow, not tomorrow. (Though anything less than a full sellout by Saturday morning should point to some serious signs of doom for anyone who isn't drinking spiked kool-aid.)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting. Devil May Cry 4 is no longer a PS3 exclusive. There's also rumors that Capcom is going to make Dead Rising and Lost Planet non-exclusive as well. Certainly not shocking as they stand to make a lot more money by putting their games on both systems as opposed to one.

My guess is that since the Sony execs have already said they don't plan on paying money to secure exclusives, the third party developers are more likely to publish on both systems. I doubt the publishers would get very much for exclusives from Microsoft since there's no way to force a bidding war without Sony in the mix. Less exclusives is probably a good thing for gamers overall as it would decrease the need for multiple system purchases.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Interesting. Devil May Cry 4 is no longer a PS3 exclusive. There's also rumors that Capcom is going to make Dead Rising and Lost Planet non-exclusive as well. Certainly not shocking as they stand to make a lot more money by putting their games on both systems as opposed to one.

My guess is that since the Sony execs have already said they don't plan on paying money to secure exclusives, the third party developers are more likely to publish on both systems. I doubt the publishers would get very much for exclusives from Microsoft since there's no way to force a bidding war without Sony in the mix. Less exclusives is probably a good thing for gamers overall as it would decrease the need for multiple system purchases.

Hey, something we agree on. Now, for the million dollar question: As MS has a series of exclusive titles and has an install base 9x what the PS3 currently has (not to mention outselling it by a 2 to 1 margain last month), who has the advantage if gamers only need one system?

Trick question there. . . The Wii is the answer, because they have the cheapest system, is the most family friendly system nad have a ton of exlusive titles on the way.

Either way, in that scenario, Sony is in a hole. They make mis-step after mis-step and if I criticize it I'm on a witch hunt?

When is God of War 3 due out anyway?

FWIW: If that trade 10 games and you get the system for $349 deal were to be widespread, I'd own a PS3 about the time The Show comes out. That would probably be enough to price me into getting the system.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FYI to European posters who are buying or considering buying the PS3. The backward compatibility list is now available. 1,845 of the 2,451 PS2 titles will be playable on the PS3 with more expected to be added in upcoming firmware updates.

http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc

Playable but with issues. Here is an interesting article on gamespot. Many of the games will have "minor issues." Others, will have "noticable issues" and there are some big names that won't be playable at all.

Gamespot's article:

One of the big issues around the launch of Sony's next-generation console in Europe has been that of how many PlayStation 2 titles would be playable after the removal of the Emotion Engine from the PlayStation 3. Sony has now sought to answer that question with the launch of a Web site that lists all playable titles.

The PlayStation 3 launches on Friday, March 23, in Europe and will require a firmware upgrade (to version 1.60) in order to play the games listed on the Sony site. The upgrade will be available from midnight on Thursday on both the PlayStation Network and PlayStation.com. It will also be available on a disc for those without Internet access, according to Sony's statement today.

According to "semi-official" blog Three Speech, 1,782 out of 2,451 PS2 games available in the SCEE region will work on the PS3. Sony's database uses a rating system where three squares mean that the game works with "no known issues to date," two squares mean that the game will play on the PS3 with "some minor issues," and one square means the game will work but with "noticeable" issues. Games which are not on the list do not currently work with the PS3.

Games which will work with the first firmware update, 1.60, include The Sims, The Sims 2, Half-Life, God of War, Quake 3, Cars, and Dragon Quest VII: Journey of the Cursed King. Games which will play with "noticeable issues" include Final Fantasy X, Metal Gear Solid 3, Kingdom Hearts, Canis Canem Edit (Bully in the US), many of the Need for Speed Titles, FIFA 07, and Pro Evolution Soccer 4, 5, and 6.

Titles which do not currently work at all include Guitar Hero I and II, Tekken Tag Tournament, Test Drive Unlimited, Black, and Hitman: Blood Money.

David Reeves, president of SCEE, said in a statement: "Our engineers have been working overtime, and have succeeded in delivering a significant number of playable PS2 titles for the European launch. We will be adding additional titles to this list in future firmware upgrades, but as we have made clear before, in the future our resources will be increasingly focused on developing new services and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, rather than on delivering PS2 backwards compatibility."

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That will change in the very near future. The mandated digital switch is quickly approaching.

http://news.com.com/Digital+TV+switc...3-6004429.html

There's obviously going to be a major rush during the 2008 holiday season, but I would expect a major marketing push in the 2007 holiday season by the retailers noting that the deadline is approaching and it's a good time to upgrade that old TV before it becomes useless.

This is a pretty silly argument. According to the article cited, over 85% of TV customers won't be impacted. And the ones that will are mostly elderly and low-income people that have ancient TVs. The odds that these people go out and buy a $2000 1080p TV are slim to none.

All that will result from this is a bunch of older people upgrading their 1970s rabbit ear TVs with a cheap $50-70 set capable of digital.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Titles which do not currently work at all include Guitar Hero I and II, Tekken Tag Tournament, Test Drive Unlimited, Black, and Hitman: Blood Money.

Guitar Hero is obviously the one big one there. Currently, you have to get an adapter to even get the Guitar Hero controller to work on the PS3 since the PS3 only has USB inputs. I held onto my PS2 for the sole reason that they didn't have a resolution for the Guitar Hero issue. I'm sure they'll resolve the problem at some point in a future firmware update, but I wasn't going to miss out on playing Guitar Hero until that point.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

This is a pretty silly argument. According to the article cited, over 85% of TV customers won't be impacted. And the ones that will are mostly elderly and low-income people that have ancient TVs. The odds that these people go out and buy a $2000 1080p TV are slim to none.

All that will result from this is a bunch of older people upgrading their 1970s rabbit ear TVs with a cheap $50-70 set capable of digital.

I should have been more specific. I didn't realize the discussion was solely about 1080P TV's. I was referring just to an upgrade to digital TV's (720 and up). You're certainly correct.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Guitar Hero is obviously the one big one there. Currently, you have to get an adapter to even get the Guitar Hero controller to work on the PS3 since the PS3 only has USB inputs. I held onto my PS2 for the sole reason that they didn't have a resolution for the Guitar Hero issue. I'm sure they'll resolve the problem at some point in a future firmware update, but I wasn't going to miss out on playing Guitar Hero until that point.

I'm pretty sure you can't get guitar hero to work on the PS3 because of the new "playstation" button. Either some independent company needs to make a guitar with this new PS3 button or you have the wait for the PS3 version. There have been about 100 threads from people who have the PS3, PS2 version of GH, PS2 guitar and the adapter and the game won't play because you can't get the PS3 to acknowledge the guitar as a controller (no playstation button).

Here's the best summary (although you can numerous others by googling "PS3 Guitar Hero"):

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...2015202AAESr4z

Can you pay guitar hero on playstation 3?

No, as there is no way to connect the guitar controller to it. The guitar controller absolutely needs a wired PS Controller plug, and the PS3 having only wireless input, doesn't provide one.

So, the game will start, and you can play with the standard Sixaxis controller, however this is very awkward and is no fun.

Ironically enough, I own both the PS3 and 360 and I am looking forward to finally being able to play Guitar Hero in April when the XBox 360 version comes out. Why Sony didn't work to immediately release GH for the PS3 on lauch (or atleast a modified guitar that works with the PS3) is a mystery to me.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Guitar Hero is obviously the one big one there. Currently, you have to get an adapter to even get the Guitar Hero controller to work on the PS3 since the PS3 only has USB inputs. I held onto my PS2 for the sole reason that they didn't have a resolution for the Guitar Hero issue. I'm sure they'll resolve the problem at some point in a future firmware update, but I wasn't going to miss out on playing Guitar Hero until that point.

I agree that is the biggest title on the list that I saw from scanning it. Looks like the 360 will be the only option who want to play Guitar Hero 2 on their next gen system for the foreseeable future.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

I'm pretty sure you can't get guitar hero to work on the PS3 because of the new "playstation" button. Either some independent company needs to make a guitar with this new PS3 button or you have the wait for the PS3 version. There have been about 100 threads from people who have the PS3, PS2 version of GH, PS2 guitar and the adapter and the game won't play because you can't get the PS3 to acknowledge the guitar as a controller (no playstation button).

I know there is a PS2 to USB adapter that people were trying out, but you may very well be correct that it is not an option. I figured they'd only offer me a few dollars on my PS2 for trade in anyway, so it was worth it to hold on to it solely to play Guitar Hero.

They put out the 360 version pretty quickly. Given the revenue possibilities of song downloads/expansion packs onto the game, I'd be shocked if they didn't have something ready by October at the latest for the PS3.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I know there is a PS2 to USB adapter that people were trying out, but you may very well be correct that it is not an option. I figured they'd only offer me a few dollars on my PS2 for trade in anyway, so it was worth it to hold on to it solely to play Guitar Hero.

They put out the 360 version pretty quickly. Given the revenue possibilities of song downloads/expansion packs onto the game, I'd be shocked if they didn't have something ready by October at the latest for the PS3.

IGN (as well as many other sites) has an article where they tried that and it did not work. Also, from a quick search, it doesn't appear that a version of Guitar Hero 2 has been announced for the PS3.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

IGN (as well as many other sites) has an article where they tried that and it did not work. Also, from a quick search, it doesn't appear that a version of Guitar Hero 2 has been announced for the PS3.

I doubt they'll release the same game that's already out on the PS2. The more likely result is that they put out a new version. Rumors are that they'll start going to calling the new versions by the songs (i.e. Guitar Hero: '90s Edition) or something to that effect. You are correct that nothing is announced at this point, but Bill Harris and others have been hinting that more games are already in the works for both the 360 and PS3.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Analyst article predicting price drop of $100 for PS3 in October.......

http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/20/tech...y_email_alerts

[Eaglesfan27]

Very interesting comments from the president of the French Division of Sony. The loss of Exclusivity of FF I think would hurt the PS3 a fair bit. I know that it would be one game that would probably push us over the brink if we were still debating on a PS3 when it is released and there are other exclusives I want. Here is the article from Gamespot:

Sony: FFXIII PS3 exclusivity under discussion

Sony France executive says in interview that Square Enix's latest installment may not be exclusive to the console after all.

By Emma Boyes, GameSpot UK Posted Mar 22, 2007 6:36 am PT

One more platform-exclusive title may be going multiplatform, it has been revealed. The latest news appears to be that Square Enix's latest epic role-playing game, Final Fantasy XIII, may follow other titles--including Saints Row, Assassin's Creed, and Devil May Cry 4--that have now been announced as appearing on at least one other platform as well.
Sony Computer Entertainment France president Georges Fornay dropped the bombshell in an interview with French-language newspaper Les Dernières Nouvelles d'Alsace (subscription required). He said, "The development costs of games have exploded, and it has become more difficult to have exclusives, outside of our own games. But we have for launch day [in France] 30 games, including MotorStorm, Resistance: Fall of Man, and Virtua Fighter 5. Moreover, we are expecting 200 games [for the PS3] by the end of 2007... As far as Final Fantasy XIII goes, I can tell you that the exclusivity is in discussion."

Fornay went on to say that he believed that the PS3 would be particularly successful in France, and that there had been approximately 60,000 pre-orders made (compared to 40,000 made for the Xbox 360, and 75,000 for the Wii). France will be getting approximately 150,000 of the one million consoles allocated to PAL regions.

He also answered questions about backwards compatibility for the next-gen console, responding to fears that the console would not support many PS2 titles without the Emotion Engine. Fornay said, "Now, if you ask me whether this was a blow to the launch, I would say that [Sony] would have done better to be sure that the console would be completely backwards compatible before announcing it. But hey, when it becomes clear what the PS3 is capable of, gamers won't really fancy playing PS2 [games] anymore..."

Square Enix had not returned calls to comment as of press time.

[bronconick]

Square taking Final Fantasy to other consoles slams the door shut on this round of consoles, IMO.

For comparison, the first FF on the PS2 sold 2 million copies in 4 days in Japan, and broke a million in the United States in about 5 or 6 weeks. They shipped 1.5 million copies of FF12 to the US for the release and those sold quickly as well.

[Neuqua]

Yikes, agreed.

I loved my PS2, by far the best purchase I had ever made and I got thousands of hours invested in it. Due to sheer brand loyalty I have waited until things progressed in this round of the console wars, but Sony losing FF (as well as all the other exclusives that made the PS2 so dominant), I do not see how I can pick the PS3 of the 360 objectively.