GroupThink 3 - Kitty Hawk, 2023

[Fritz]

That would be a shame. the SLB plays a lot of man in many schemes.

[QuikSand]

I'm about 75% sure that Jim, in some post here (maybe in one of his chat sessions, or one of our little Q&A sessions), said that when LBs are not actively assigned to run defense, they drop into zone coverage.

[albionmoonlight]

Has Q evolved beyond titles? Perhaps this is the first step in his Childhood's End-like development into a greater species, destined to enter the aether and play with the gods, leaving us mere mortals behind.

Or maybe he did not like being League Commish.

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
Has Q evolved beyond titles? Perhaps this is the first step in his Childhood's End-like development into a greater species, destined to enter the aether and play with the gods, leaving us mere mortals behind.

Or maybe he did not like being League Commish.

Or with the advent of Multiplayer FOF, SkyDog decided that the League Commish moniker could become quite confusing.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
Or maybe he did not like being League Commish.

[Buzzbee]

Hey gang - I just noticed that the Sacramento Royals are offering a trade. Given our current position in the draft, it might be one we'd like to consider.

They are offering 5 year Tackle Jermaine Sanford. He played the last three years, and started two years ago. His ratings are:

Run Blocking - 43/44
Pass Blocking - 23/39
Blocking Strength - 62
Endurance - 15/16

He has low leadership (4) AND would be an AFFINITY GUY with Johns.

They are also offering a First Round pick this year. Oh, and by the way, that's the 10th pick overall.

What do they want? QB Ethan Francis.

I believe that Sanford would replace Frank Grolsko very well. The only issue is that Grolsko is our only true RT. However, Johns and Williams are currently our starters at Tackle, so I don't see this as a huge sticking point.

I think we should go for this trade. A couple of deciding factors.

- We'll have 2 first round picks to either use, or to trade down for more picks.

- Sanford would be a pretty good backup and should do a good job giving Williams or Johns a rest.

- Sanford is an AFFINITY player.

- One negative is that this is clearly a salary dump move by Sacramento. Sanford is a little pricey for the talent level (2 years, 3.8 and 4.7 million).

- Heath Sparks is still under contract for the next two years.

- Free Agent QB's Mack Hayes and/or Charlie Legrande could be signed to fill the vacancy

- But the two main reasons I think this is a trade we should consider: Fritz has proven that we can win without a superstar QB

- AND: Francis is in the last year of his contract and will probably want in the neighborhood of $10 million a year next year.

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by QuikSand
Okay let’s do the quick math on our contract situation:

We have 34 players signed, plus 7 draft picks = 41 players
We currently have $48.6 million in usable cap space

Let’s work backwards and assume that we will fill in with about 5 rookies after the draft. That means that we ought to have something like $48 million in cap room to sign 7 meaningful players.

So, it does look like we can afford to lay out some cash. Of course, we will almost certainly need to acquire a starting CB (preferably two, in my mind) and a starting safety with that amount of money. But from the first glance, we need not necessarily shy away from acquiring a few impact players (or a few more decent players, if that’s what we prefer).

Ok, I certainly ain't no math whiz, but with $48.6 million in cap room, to have $48 million after signing 5 undrafted rookies would mean we would sign 5 players for a little over $100,000 each? I don't think we can do that, can we?

Should that be more like $45 million?

{EDIT: spelling and to say that our cap situation still looks pretty good.}

[Fritz]

I bet it does not pass the test.

[QuikSand]

I may have been misunderstanding something for a while, then.

I know that there are circumstances where signing rookies to minsal deals did not add to your cap burden. I had thought that in the transition to FOF4, there was a new rule that players only hit the cap to the extent they made more than the rookie minimum.

However, in reading the help files (?!?!?!) I found reference instead to the fact that only the top 53 players counted toward the salary cap -- which might in fact help explain why additional minsal rookies count as zero.

So - I think I stand corrected here... and you're right, I overstated our cap space by a few million. Sorry 'bout that (not the mistake you thought, but it was a mistake, I think).

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by Fritz
I bet it does not pass the test.

I'm guessing you are right. How do I go about testing?

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by QuikSand
I may have been misunderstanding something for a while, then.

I know that there are circumstances where signing rookies to minsal deals did not add to your cap burden. I had thought that in the transition to FOF4, there was a new rule that players only hit the cap to the extent they made more than the rookie minimum.

However, in reading the help files (?!?!?!) I found reference instead to the fact that only the top 53 players counted toward the salary cap -- which might in fact help explain why additional minsal rookies count as zero.

So - I think I stand corrected here... and you're right, I overstated our cap space by a few million. Sorry 'bout that (not the mistake you thought, but it was a mistake, I think).

Eh, what's a few million among friends.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by Buzzbee
I'm guessing you are right. How do I go about testing?

first roll up your sleve, then wrap your arm tightly in a rubber band...

[Buzzbee]

Ok, if alter and confirm means to remove a peice of the trade, add the same piece back, and then us offer the trade. It doesn't pass.

"You are close in terms of talent. Your opponent wants more quality in return."

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by Fritz
first roll up your sleve, then wrap your arm tightly in a rubber band...

Ummm...I got A-

Does that mean I pass?

[Fritz]

Originally posted by Buzzbee
Ummm...I got A-

Does that mean I pass?

um, was Fonzie your nurse?

[Buzzbee]

Like HELL!

[Buzzbee]

To "recap" some of our "need" positions:

I am making no attempt to verify how many players we would want or need, so this may go well over or under a 60 man preseason roster or regular season 53 man roster.

Also, this assumes that we don't make the Trade with Sacremento.

Need means what we need to add. Want means what we might want to add.

Fritz and Albion - Feel free to "Fritz" this to reflect what you may actually want/need. This was just my rough guess to give us some direction in FA signings and the draft.

Have 2 QB's - Need 1, want 2.
Have 1 RB - Need 2, want 3.
Have 1 FB - Need 1.
Have 2 TE - Need 1.
Have 4 WR (3 FL, 1 SE) - Need 1?, want ?
Have 4 T (3 LT, 1 RT) - Need 0? want ?
Have 3 G (2 LG, 1 RG) - Need 0? want1?
Have 2 C - Need 0

Have 2 DE (1 LDE, 1 RDE) - Need 1? want 2?
Have 2 DT (2 RDT) - Need 2? want ?
Have 6 LB (3 "SLB", 1 MLB, 2 "WLB") need 0, need ?
Have 2 CB (2 LCB) - need 3, want 4?
Have 1 S (FS) need 3, want 4?

[Fritz]

Want 8 DL
Want 7 LB
Want 9 DB

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by Fritz
Want 8 DL
Want 7 LB
Want 9 DB

Ok, to summarize:

DL - Have 4, want 4 more.

LB - Have 6, want 1 more.

DB - Have 3, want 6 more.

Oh, and 1 of our 3 DB's is Luther Duran, which we will probably cut, but we will also have to offer Randy Hawkins a contract since he is a leader, so this is a wash numberwise.

Wanting 6 DB's would lead me to think that we need to sign a good CB or S in FA, and then use 1st or 2nd pick for best available CB or S. At least.

[Fritz]

In truth, we should have 8 LB 3+1/3+1

If we get rid of the costly LB Daniels(?) and sign at least two of the LBs I listed we will still leave surplus cap money to help the DBs.

[Fritz]

I am expecting some of the DBs to be ST types like the one I listed earlier. We could cut to 8 to make room for another player somewhere else, pehaps DL to cover all of the injuries we will face.

[Buzzbee]

Ok, since it seems that Quik has been a little pre-occupied with the FOF2k4 beta testing I'll try to fill in a little. You've listed several potential players that we might want to go after. If you've got $20 million to spend on the D, who are the FA's you would want to sign? Perhaps we can narrow the field an move along with the FA process.

(I'm no Quik, and don't pretend to be as tactful as he, but just wanted to see if I could help push us along a little. Forgive me if I'm out of line.)

[Buzzbee]

Dola - By the way, I support going after a CB like Perkins or Henn.

[Fritz]

How about we cut Daniels and give the D 30 Mil?

[Fritz]

start here

LCB Bo Perkins
SS Christian Cassidy
SLB Dwight Custer
WLB Derek Wallace

I don;t have thegame here and can not look at cost. I know these guys are affordable. have not scouted the ILBs.

don't waste money on a D-line. A steady diet of cheap guys on 3 year contracts from the draft will do.

[albionmoonlight]

I would like to pick up 2 "good" WR in FA. I would like Wes Gomez and Everet Thomas. I would actually like Courtney Adderley instead of Gomez, but I imagine that the group will shout that idea down because of his salary demands. I like the fact that he has actually produced at an all pro level in the past.

Tejuda is exactally what I am looking for in a FB and the price is right, so I want us to bid on him.

I would like OL depth, but I think we can wait until a few weeks into FA and pick up the best OL players available (unless our FA house rules force us to make a choice early). Fritz left us in good shape there, so we can really afford to bargin hunt.

C.J. Wooden is an interesting prospect at QB. 9 year vet who is a career backup. Still has some room to grow, and could be good to have on board. The price is right, too. My only hang-up is that I am not sure how the whole chemistry thing works with QBs. He is an Aries--what does that do? If he fits with chemistry, I'd like to give him a shot at QB.

So, in my world we would bid initally on Tejuda, Adderley/Gomez, Thomas, and Wooden. We would wait and also try to pick up a bargain OL in the later stages of FA.

[Buzzbee]

I wasn't planning on going ahead with the FA signings. Just trying to load the barrel for the first shot.

In regard to cutting Daniels, it is something we could do, and has been brought up before. In my opinion he is in the last year of his contract, and we aren't hurting financially, so if this were MY team I'd probably keep him. Of course it's not, so if others feel otherwise, I'm open to it.

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
C.J. Wooden is an interesting prospect at QB. 9 year vet who is a career backup. Still has some room to grow, and could be good to have on board. The price is right, too. My only hang-up is that I am not sure how the whole chemistry thing works with QBs. He is an Aries--what does that do? If he fits with chemistry, I'd like to give him a shot at QB.

I noticed Wooden, but because he was an Aries, discounted him. Yes, he would be a great pickup, but am afraid he would just upset the apple cart too much. He conflicts with Johns our OL leader, so I don't think we could sign Wooden anyway.

[Fritz]

AML - what the hell is wrong with guys you have?

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by Fritz
AML - what the hell is wrong with guys you have?

Buncha fuckups if you ask me.

[albionmoonlight]

The talent that our GM and scout have assembled on O are amazing enough to make even the simplest dolt seem like a genius OC. I want to shake things up to make it a bit of a challenge on myself.

[QuikSand]

I've got no problem with Buzzbee or anyone else taking a leadership role in all this. It seems to me like we have a general plan, but off the top of my head it sounds like both the OC and DC have "plans" that would cost more than the considerable sum that we have remaining to pay.

A few more notes - to help keep the ball rolling:

-We may not make the trade with Sacramento, it doesn't pass the fairness test, as described above.

-Does anyone disagree with Fritz's suggestion to cut MLB Daniels, and recycle that money into the defensive front?

-Does anyone disagree with aml's suggestin that we pursue two quality wide receivers via free agency, including one guy who will demand pretty serious money?


If we can agree on those two things, then we are pretty close to having an overall plan, I think -- just some rock tumbling to do here.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by QuikSand
-Does anyone disagree with Fritz's suggestion to cut MLB Daniels, and recycle that money into the defensive front?

-Does anyone disagree with aml's suggestion that we pursue two quality wide receivers via free agency, including one guy who will demand pretty serious money?

Incidentally, were this totally my team and my decisions to make, I wouldn't do either of these things. But I don't feel strongly enough about either one to really raise any objection - I'm more inclined to let the coordinators start building things the way they want to.

[Buzzbee]

Ok, from reviewing (briefly) it sounds like the following are guys that we all agree that we want to approach with an offer to join the Defending World Champion Kitty Hawk Flyers.

FB Melvin Tejada
WR Everett Thomas
LCB Bo Perkins

Others that have been submitted, but not quite yet confirmed are:

WR Wes Gomez
SS Christian Cassidy
SLB Dwight Custer
WLB Derek Wallace
QB Mack Hayes and/or Charlie Legrande

These are guys that have been mentioned, but not really discussed. I don't know if any of them have been "checked" for leadership issues or chemistry issues. I also don't know where signing these guys will put us in terms of cap or # of players.

[Buzzbee]

Quik posted while I was typing. To answer some questions:

In regard to Daniels: My gut says to keep him because he is a good player. However, that is a nice chunk of change that could be used elsewere, and we have seen that LB's are fairly easy to come by.

One determining factor for me might be to look at what LB's are in the last year of their contract. I think Middleton is.

[albionmoonlight]

I think that Daniels in the middle is the engine that helps the D go. Nothwithstanding last year, he is not very injury prone. It seems a shame to let him go, especially if we are going to a 3-4. However, I will defer to Fritz on that point.

I am happy with the FB and WR (Thomas) pick. I would also like WR Gomez, but I am the kid in the candy store. If Buzz, Q, etc. feel that the $$ can be better spent elsewhere (or banked for next year), then I understand that decision. In other words, you can do what you need to do--I don't NEED Gomez. I WANT Gomez.

What happened to Ask a Nazi?

I don't have the game open to look at those two QBs. What is the difference between them?

[Fritz]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
The talent that our GM and scout have assembled on O are amazing enough to make even the simplest dolt seem like a genius OC. I want to shake things up to make it a bit of a challenge on myself.

i have been found out [slobbers on shirt]

[albionmoonlight]

FWIW, isn't WR a position that tends to fall to the end of Round 1/Beginning of round 2? If so, I may be more inclined to pass on Gomez.

[QuikSand]

In my mind, it just makes sense to repond to what we have seen at the LB position - there are plentiful decent linebackers available both in every year's free agency and in every year's rookie draft. Due to that, it probably does make sense to unload the huge salary for Russell Daniels, who is solid, but not so overwhelming as to merit that pay. I can come to terms with that okay.

But my sense, in general, would be that we should reinvest those savings at a spot like CB, where good young players are tough to come by, and quality veterans are generally pretty expensive. But, understand that this is more of an "all else equal" opinion, more than one balanced by the actual list of players that we are considering.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by QuikSand

-Does anyone disagree with Fritz's suggestion to cut MLB Daniels, and recycle that money into the defensive front?

linebackers, not D-linemen. If we can get two LB for Daniels, then I am fine with the surplus going to where ever. Use it on the WR that AML wants.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally posted by Fritz
linebackers, not D-linemen. If we can get two LB for Daniels, then I am fine with the surplus going to where ever. Use it on the WR that AML wants.

What happened to Ask a Nazi? You were super high on him at the outset.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
What happened to Ask a Nazi? You were super high on him at the outset.

it was righty pointed out that he is costly.

I am not a big salary guy until someone proves it to us on the field while staying healthy.

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
What happened to Ask a Nazi? You were super high on him at the outset.

I think we determined that he was WAY too expensive for his position and considering other talent available.

[Buzzbee]

What kind of bonus money will we eat if we cut Daniels?

[Fritz]

Front Office Guys-

You have my thougths on enough players at OLB, CB, and S. I can't take the time now to scout ILB or the DL. You have done a good job in the past collecting the talent to get the job done. I trust you will continue to do so.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by Buzzbee
What kind of bonus money will we eat if we cut Daniels?

almost none

[Buzzbee]

I'm okay with cutting him, but I'd like to have some idea of who we will go after with the money made available.

Like Quik, I think a quality veteran CB would be a good use. We have Perkins slotted as one we would go after. I think Henn was another talented but expensive CB that has been mentioned.

Would we have enough $'s to go after Perkins, Henn, AND WR Gomez (for AML)?

[Buzzbee]

Also, with Daniels gone, would Middleton slide to the inside, or would we leave Middleton and try to find someone else to fill the Daniels void?

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by Fritz
Front Office Guys-

You have my thougths on enough players at OLB, CB, and S. I can't take the time now to scout ILB or the DL. You have done a good job in the past collecting the talent to get the job done. I trust you will continue to do so.

I'm at work, so I wouldn't be able to do anything until tonight. If Quik has a chance today, great. If not, I will try to do the FA signings tonight.

I do have a question for Quik though: when making offers to the FA's, do you generally submit what they ask, or do you try to bump it down a little initially? And if there are competing offers, how aggressively have you bid up?

I've always been curious, but never asked.

[albionmoonlight]

One thing I suggest with LBs (I am sure Fritz knows this) is to decide how many Blitzers you want. It will add to the flexibility if he can blitz from 2 or 3 LB spots instead of just one. You want to make sure you have enough starting quality LBs on staff who can rush the passer.