WSOP Main Event 2005 (Spoilers)

[larrymcg421]

Yeah Moneymaker was damaged late in day 1 when his Aces were cracked by Queens.

I'm sure people will use this as proof that he just got lucky the first time around.

[MJ4H]

Raymer out, too.

[Northwood_DK]

I guess this is the full lister after the first day

http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/wsop_results.asp

[larrymcg421]

Raymer is still in. The tourney director got Raymer and Moneymaker confused.

[timmynausea]

They do have similar FAT-ial features.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Raymer is still in. The tourney director got Raymer and Moneymaker confused.

source?

Edit: found it myself, nm

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

They do have similar FAT-ial features.

to be fair, the reports ive read claim moneymaker slimmed down a LOT

[timmynausea]

It was just a joke. Moneymaker was never hugely fat, just a bit chubby.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

It was just a joke. Moneymaker was never hugely fat, just a bit chubby.

I wouldn't be online if I hadn't gotten knocked out today

[Chubby]

so I'm just curious how anyone can be in favor of a rule that bans ONE word. you can yell "cocksucker" all you want but not "fuck"? comical...

[larrymcg421]

Harrington's amazing run has sadly ended.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

... Aside from the early Matusow F-bomb the only other story involved Anna Benson who dropped an F-bomb herself and was told that was the only word she could not say at the table. She proceeded to let rip as many curse words as possible to test the rule. She even pitched out the word "cocksucker."

If that's accurate, I think I've got a new favorite poker pro.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If that's accurate, I think I've got a new favorite poker pro.

Not that it really matters to your sentiment, but there is a very high chance she isn't a pro. I've never heard of her, but that doesn't mean anything. Lots of amateurs abound these days, though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Not that it really matters to your sentiment, but there is a very high chance she isn't a pro. I've never heard of her, but that doesn't mean anything. Lots of amateurs abound these days, though.

Ah, the name seemed familiar, but that may just be because she's got "one of those names" that just sounds that way. (maybe you know what I'm mean, some names just "seem" familiar).

Either way, I love the story.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Comey

Because it's poker. As others have described, it's not golf. People are gambling. They're down to their raw emotions. Expletives fly.

One person got eliminated for muttering fuck late in a tournament. It wasn't even directed at anyone. Another one had to sit out during heads-up play. He was out for 10 minutes, and they were down to two players.

That's a weak argument. "Raw emotions" lead to fist fights and gun play -- you want to see that at the WSOP too?

It's a dumb rule in the sense that they only banned one word, but I know they have reason for it -- and it's actually a good reason. I don't even think it's entirely driven by ESPN. I'll get you'll see Matusow's explosion on TV. Cursing and bleeping makes for good TV.

But it also makes it look like poker players are a bunch of swearing, drinking, ass munches. Poker is a multimillion dollar business -- the investors behind it want to see it thrive and in that regard it's all about image. They want to give the impression that poker players are a lot like golfers.

I heard in an interview the other day about the PGA and swearing that Tiger Woods is the most penalized golfer in the PGA by a mile, and it's almost all for his temper and cursing. You don't hear about it because the PGA has a rule against disclosing its fines. But lots of sports have similar rules.

If you don't like it, there's the door. This isn't Nazi Germany. Chill out.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ah, the name seemed familiar, but that may just be because she's got "one of those names" that just sounds that way. (maybe you know what I'm mean, some names just "seem" familiar).

Either way, I love the story.

Jon and MJ4H lose 10 cool points. That Anna Benson would be the same Anna Benson who is married to pitcher Kris Benson. If you're not aware of Anna's story, do a quick search for "anna benson and sex" or "anna benson naked" and you'll get all the information you need.

She's also only been playing poker for two weeks. Her success in the tournament thus far is either an indication that it takes zero skill to play poker with the pros or that pros and amateurs alike refuse to beat against hot women.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Jon and MJ4H lose 10 cool points. That Anna Benson would be the same Anna Benson who is married to pitcher Kris Benson. If you're not aware of Anna's story, do a quick search for "anna benson and sex" or "anna benson naked" and you'll get all the information you need.

She's also only been playing poker for two weeks. Her success in the tournament thus far is either an indication that it takes zero skill to play poker with the pros or that pros and amateurs alike refuse to beat against hot women.

Bleh if being knowledgeable about pitchers' wives is what it takes to earn cool points, keep em.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

That's a weak argument. "Raw emotions" lead to fist fights and gun play -- you want to see that at the WSOP too?

It's a dumb rule in the sense that they only banned one word, but I know they have reason for it -- and it's actually a good reason. I don't even think it's entirely driven by ESPN. I'll get you'll see Matusow's explosion on TV. Cursing and bleeping makes for good TV.

But it also makes it look like poker players are a bunch of swearing, drinking, ass munches. Poker is a multimillion dollar business -- the investors behind it want to see it thrive and in that regard it's all about image. They want to give the impression that poker players are a lot like golfers.

I heard in an interview the other day about the PGA and swearing that Tiger Woods is the most penalized golfer in the PGA by a mile, and it's almost all for his temper and cursing. You don't hear about it because the PGA has a rule against disclosing its fines. But lots of sports have similar rules.

If you don't like it, there's the door. This isn't Nazi Germany. Chill out.

You know, I heard that next year they're going to implement a new rule to try to cut down on some of the gambling in the WSOP as some folks find that offensive.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Bleh if being knowledgeable about pitchers' wives is what it takes to earn cool points, keep em.

The fact that she's a pitcher's wife doesn't lose you cool points -- it's the fact that you don't know about a hot chick who appears to be a sexaholic and poses for soft-core porn. But that's just me.

[kcchief19]

For the record, I don't want Mike Matusow to win because he's a tool. But the farther he goes, the more potential fun there will be. They're in love with him at CardPlayer. Aside from the cursing penalty, he's announced he's going to write a book -- "How to Play Like a Donkey and Win at Poker" -- and he told a guy who had AQ going up against AK and said "I'm dead" that "No, you're a 3-to-1 favorite," and the guy wins when he catches a Q.

When he loses, he'll meltdown. The further into the tournament, the bigger the meltdown. It'll be awesome.

Raymer's putting togethe a nice run. Some names are starting to rise to the top. Chip Reese has had a nice run, and Layne Flack appears to be on a roll along with Mizrachi. Tran and Meehand are having nice runs too.

I'm hoping Howard Lederer puts together a run. He's been plodding along most of the way. Farha's been up and down, so has Ivey.

[larrymcg421]

Little bit of trivia. Matusow owned a piece of Scotty Nguyen when he won the WSOP.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ohhhhhhhh ... now I know why the name sounded familiar.

I just didn't put 2+2 together in this context.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

For the record, I don't want Mike Matusow to win because he's a tool. But the farther he goes, the more potential fun there will be. They're in love with him at CardPlayer. Aside from the cursing penalty, he's announced he's going to write a book -- "How to Play Like a Donkey and Win at Poker" -- and he told a guy who had AQ going up against AK and said "I'm dead" that "No, you're a 3-to-1 favorite," and the guy wins when he catches a Q.

When he loses, he'll meltdown. The further into the tournament, the bigger the meltdown. It'll be awesome.

Raymer's putting togethe a nice run. Some names are starting to rise to the top. Chip Reese has had a nice run, and Layne Flack appears to be on a roll along with Mizrachi. Tran and Meehand are having nice runs too.

I'm hoping Howard Lederer puts together a run. He's been plodding along most of the way. Farha's been up and down, so has Ivey.

I'm with you on Lederer. Mizrachi got knocked out a couple hours ago. (Now that I double check this, it appears a different Mizrachi got knocked out.)

[larrymcg421]

Interesting story going on. Olga Varkonyi, wife of 2002 champ Robert Varkonyi, now has $290,000 in chips sitting in front of her.

[larrymcg421]

Good news for Grinder fans. He just won a $260,000 pot, taking most of Layne Flack's chips. On a TJT board, Flack held AJ and Grinder had KK. All the money got in at the river with neither hand having been helped

[digamma]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

For the record, I don't want Mike Matusow to win because he's a tool. But the farther he goes, the more potential fun there will be. They're in love with him at CardPlayer. Aside from the cursing penalty, he's announced he's going to write a book -- "How to Play Like a Donkey and Win at Poker" --

I think that was a joke.

and he told a guy who had AQ going up against AK and said "I'm dead" that "No, you're a 3-to-1 favorite," and the guy wins when he catches a Q.

I think he said just "you're 3 to 1" meaning the guy was a 3 to 1 dog.

When he loses, he'll meltdown. The further into the tournament, the bigger the meltdown. It'll be awesome.

I agree. The guy's a tool, but I think you have to give him a little more credit than you do.

[larrymcg421]

With the AK vs. AQ thing, he did mean "3-1 favorite" but he was joking. He was referring to his spectacular defeat at last year's WSOP when his AK lost against AQ after a Q spiked on the river. The Hellmuthian cameras followed Matusow and watched him break down. It was awesome.

[timmynausea]

Day 2 (sorta day 4) is over. The good news is that Lederer is up to $156k. The bad news is that Dutch Boyd has $139k.

[MJ4H]

Up to date chip counts:
http://pokerwire.com/updatechipcount...3EMain%2BEvent

[MJ4H]

If you dont want to click, Greg Raymer is 9th with 318,700, Lee Watkinson is 6th with 336,800.

The chip leader is Rod Pardy Jr with 464,000.

[Subby]

Nine spots away from the money, they'll be playing hand-for-hand until they get there. Thatis going to take a long time.

I have 7 of 25 players left from a ME fantasy league I paid $25 to enter. Raymer, Flack, Grinder, Gerasimov, Ivey, Gavin Smith, and John Juanda...they all look like good bets to money, although I think a couple have below average chip stacks.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

That's a weak argument. "Raw emotions" lead to fist fights and gun play -- you want to see that at the WSOP too?

It's a dumb rule in the sense that they only banned one word, but I know they have reason for it -- and it's actually a good reason. I don't even think it's entirely driven by ESPN. I'll get you'll see Matusow's explosion on TV. Cursing and bleeping makes for good TV.

But it also makes it look like poker players are a bunch of swearing, drinking, ass munches. Poker is a multimillion dollar business -- the investors behind it want to see it thrive and in that regard it's all about image. They want to give the impression that poker players are a lot like golfers.

I heard in an interview the other day about the PGA and swearing that Tiger Woods is the most penalized golfer in the PGA by a mile, and it's almost all for his temper and cursing. You don't hear about it because the PGA has a rule against disclosing its fines. But lots of sports have similar rules.

If you don't like it, there's the door. This isn't Nazi Germany. Chill out.

You're right, it's not Nazi Germany. That's why the players being censored, in an adult event (no kids are allowed there), is inane. And no, it's not a weak argument; you're just embellishing on it.

How many people watch poker to see the players act like golfers? Some do, but some watch it to see the personalities...to see players like Matusow. Those players wouldn't be anywhere in the public eye without their verbose personality. I admit, I am a rather gentle player, in that I never talk to get some riled up or tilt them. But if the players were like golfers, TV poker would be ridiculously boring.

Why, by the way, do you think he got an applause for his reaction to the new rule? Because people didn't want him playing? Or because he did what they wanted to do? Reports on the subject lean suggest the latter.

And the opinion remains that the way the rule has been implemented has not been the best; it has directly affected results for infractions that shouldn't have even been considered.

In an era when "bullshit" makes it on TV regularly, I don't hold the opinion that swearing puts poker players in a bad light. The rule, however, is restrictive, and was not well thoughtout this year.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by digamma

I think that was a joke.

I know, silly. That's why it was funny.

Originally Posted by digamma

I think he said just "you're 3 to 1" meaning the guy was a 3 to 1 dog.

As I've read it a couple of places, he was "serious" in that the guy was saying, "I'm dead," and Matusow was saying, "No, no, you're 3-1 to win" -- he was being sarcastic because he had just lost a couple of hands to serious underdogs who sucked out and he's been railing throughout the entire WSOP about amateurs who don't know what they're doing and still win because they get lucky.

Originally Posted by digamma

I agree. The guy's a tool, but I think you have to give him a little more credit than you do.

I didn't think I was taking anything away from the guy. I actually enjoy watching him play because while he's mildly funny when he win, he's even funnier when he loses. He's a great player and a great poker mind, he just happens to be a tool so it's fun to watch him implode.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Comey

You're right, it's not Nazi Germany. That's why the players being censored, in an adult event (no kids are allowed there), is inane. And no, it's not a weak argument; you're just embellishing on it.

Lot of things wrong there; it's not an "adult" event -- it's beening show on ESPN all times of the day. That's the audience. There are plenty of good arguments against the rule, but "raw emotion" isn't one of them. Are you going to say that as long as it's verbal then it's "good" raw emotion as opposed to punching someone who sucks out against you as "bad" raw emotion? Grey lines are worse than black and white rules like this -- I give them credit for having a very clear rule and enforcing it consistently, regardless of whether you like the rule or not.

But this is not censorship! This is not the government prohibiting speech. This is a private company saying if you want to play in our contest, you have to play by our rules. What's wrong with that, other than you disagree with the rule?

Originally Posted by Comey

And the opinion remains that the way the rule has been implemented has not been the best; it has directly affected results for infractions that shouldn't have even been considered.

In an era when "bullshit" makes it on TV regularly, I don't hold the opinion that swearing puts poker players in a bad light. The rule, however, is restrictive, and was not well thoughtout this year.

I agreed that the rule was implemented poorly. I think if their plan was to improve the "atmosphere" of the tournament and make it more TV-friendly, then needed to put a lot more words on the list. I disagree completely that "it has directly affected results for infractions that shouldn't have even been considered." They tournament organizers decided that any use of the F-bomb should be penalized and they knew full well what that meant.

I think the organizers running the tournament know that not everyone is against swearing, and I think they know that not everyone holds the opinion that it puts poker players in a bad light -- these people are otherwise known as "poker fans." They aren't trying to woo people like you; they are trying to woo people who don't play/watch poker because they think it's nothing but cursing and drinking.

I really don't care one way or another about the rule, but I think it's silly to howl against it because it's their preroggative to run their tournament any way they want to, and the way they have chose to run it is pretty much like every other sporting event where the competitors can be heard. NBA player's don't get fined for cursing during the game when you can't hear them saying anything, but Shaq got penalized for cursing in a postgame interview on TV.

I suppose the solution is to let everybody curse all they want and not expect anyone to act respectable in certain situations. I guess I'm a curmudgeon too for not caring if someone can or can't curse.

[rkmsuf]

I think it's resonable to ask, in light of the intense media coverage, that the players refrain from cursing.

I mean players are benefitting directly from the coverage and interest. It's not hard to curtail the f bomb for a chance at 7 million bucks.

[Comey]

Here's a scenario from yesterday, which illustrates the poor use of the rule.

Anna Benson, wife of Kris Benson, used the f-bomb. She was then instructed that she couldn't use that word. She proceeded to use every other curse word she could, including "cocksucker". She was not penalized.

I agree about the private company business and censorship. But the rule is *still* a bad one, on the basis that they've implemented it in such a fashion that has no regard for the situation in which the word was used.

I believe the tournament put the rule in with good intentions; you don't want to have a situation break out by name-calling. But they've implemented it in an awful way, one that has prohibited the players.

I still believe this rule won't be here after this year, in its current form. And, truth be told, I don't care if the rule exists or not, either.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Comey

Here's a scenario from yesterday, which illustrates the poor use of the rule.

Anna Benson, wife of Kris Benson, used the f-bomb. She was then instructed that she couldn't use that word. She proceeded to use every other curse word she could, including "cocksucker". She was not penalized.

I agree about the private company business and censorship. But the rule is *still* a bad one, on the basis that they've implemented it in such a fashion that has no regard for the situation in which the word was used.

I believe the tournament put the rule in with good intentions; you don't want to have a situation break out by name-calling. But they've implemented it in an awful way, one that has prohibited the players.

I still believe this rule won't be here after this year, in its current form. And, truth be told, I don't care if the rule exists or not, either.

It should be no cursing in general or no rule at all.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I know, silly. That's why it was funny.
As I've read it a couple of places, he was "serious" in that the guy was saying, "I'm dead," and Matusow was saying, "No, no, you're 3-1 to win" -- he was being sarcastic because he had just lost a couple of hands to serious underdogs who sucked out and he's been railing throughout the entire WSOP about amateurs who don't know what they're doing and still win because they get lucky.
I didn't think I was taking anything away from the guy. I actually enjoy watching him play because while he's mildly funny when he win, he's even funnier when he loses. He's a great player and a great poker mind, he just happens to be a tool so it's fun to watch him implode.

Completely misread your intent with the first post. My apologies.

[Northwood_DK]

We are just 4 players away from the money.
#560 will get $12.500

[larrymcg421]

Gutshot is reporting only one spot to go before the money.

[Northwood_DK]

Cardplayer has 563 players left after 10 hands today. They started the day with 569 players.

[larrymcg421]

We're in the money now. Apparently the 561st place finisher was given a seat in the 2006 Main Event. Not a bad deal.

During the hand-for-hand play, Mike Matusow doubled up. He has over 200k.

Say what you want about Matusow, that guy has guts. Maybe he had AA, though.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I think it's resonable to ask, in light of the intense media coverage, that the players refrain from cursing.

I mean players are benefitting directly from the coverage and interest. It's not hard to curtail the f bomb for a chance at 7 million bucks.

Show me where the tv dollars are being put into the pot.

Thing is, they aren't so the players aren't making a dime off of ESPN. The casino is tho. The players are benefitting from the boom of internet poker which is where the bulk of the new entries are coming from as far as I know.

[SirFozzie]

A full 20% of the field (1100 or so) came from PokerStars alone.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Show me where the tv dollars are being put into the pot.

Thing is, they aren't so the players aren't making a dime off of ESPN. The casino is tho. The players are benefitting from the boom of internet poker which is where the bulk of the new entries are coming from as far as I know.

The players don't own the World Series of Poker. Harrah's does. They are making plenty of money from ESPN. That's where TV money comes into the equation. I also think it's easy to make a case the ESPN's coverage has helped poker explode. Internet poker was growing slowly until Chris Moneymaker's victory, then it exploded. If Moneymaker's victory hadn't been on TV, the boom would have been much quieter.

But like I said, this isn't about the money as much as it is image. Look at the World Poker Tour broadcasts -- those are about as "family friendly" as you can get for poker. They make poker players seem like serious professionals rather than just a bunch of drunken chain-smoking gambling addicts. And I don't think the swearing rule is as much for ESPN (there is such a thing as editing) as it is for all of the other coverage going on from other media outlets that are not as strenuously edited.

Comey, I agree that the rule wasn't well thought out. I agree the rule will likely be changed next year -- and it's going to be a lot more all encompassing. They've already banned smoking; next up is cursing. I think they'd probably go after the drinking if it weren't for the fact that it makes it easer for the pros to pick off the dead money when the amateurs get a few drinks in them.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by digamma

Completely misread your intent with the first post. My apologies.

None necessary. Sorry my tone wasn't clear.

Lederer finally made a couple of big moves -- I'd love to see him make the final table and win it all.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Show me where the tv dollars are being put into the pot.

Thing is, they aren't so the players aren't making a dime off of ESPN. The casino is tho. The players are benefitting from the boom of internet poker which is where the bulk of the new entries are coming from as far as I know.

All those guys with book deals, sponsorships from poker sites, etc can thank TV coverage for almost all of it.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

All those guys with book deals, sponsorships from poker sites, etc can thank TV coverage for almost all of it.

so we're talking about what? 1% maybe that benefit from that which still has nothing to do with the $7 million dollar 1st prize in the ME or any of the other smaller events' payouts. Harrah's makes a mint I'm sure off of the WSOP telecasts, the players make nothing off of the telecast.

[SirFozzie]

heheheheh. Here's something funny from Tao of Poker

7:54pm... 334 players remain. I heard a rumor that the top 200 players will be drug tested.

[vtbub]

Sammy Farha gone at around 316th.