Official College Football Thread - Championship Week

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

...but I have no desire to see LSU kick the crap out of Arkansas St in a playoff game.

But this is exactly what happens at least 2-4 times every season for most big-time programs during the regular season (beating a clearly inferior team by 50 points), and those results, whether we like it or not, play a big part in the rankings which ultimately decide who plays for the championship.

BCS proponents want to have the cake and eat it, which just isn't a viable option here. The BCS does nothing more than determine who wins the popularity contest each season out of the major programs. This may often include the best team or two in the country, but imo that is mostly just luck.

You can't have a legitimate championship system that is dependent upon people voting for the best teams, which the BCS system relies heavily upon, often by people with very limited knowledge of the teams they are voting for.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Yep.

Thats the thing. The FBS clearly has different conference tiers while the FCS has more balance so something that works well for the FCS isnt going to work exactly the same for the FBS.

I know people have different opinions on what the playoff should be but I have no desire to see LSU kick the crap out of Arkansas St in a playoff game. Of course if people are looking for teams that deserve the shot based on performance and eliminating computer/human biases a team like Arkansas State should be in for winning the Sun Belt.

This is the part I am confused about. Do people want the 8/16 best teams in the playoff or the teams that won the most games?

People want the NFL, with college teams.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Alabama is already getting another shot. In a playoff they would actually have to play their way into it.

Which leads to the best alternative: LSU goes to the Sugar Bowl and Alabama plays in the Cotton or the Orlando bowl game.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

People want the NFL, with college teams.

No, we just want a legitimate system, not this smoke and mirrors crap that is the BCS.

[RomaGoth]

TD USM....

[DeToxRox]

Huge answer by USM.

[Grover]

USM/Houston has been a very fun game to watch.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

No, we just want a legitimate system, not this smoke and mirrors crap that is the BCS.

What do you mean by a legitimate system?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

What do you mean by a legitimate system?

Any system that relies on human voting is clearly inferior. What other league, anywhere, does that?

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

It's just as wrong to arbitrarily rule someone out of the championship as it is to rule them in. Alabama is likely a top 2 team this year. They have every reason to expect a chance at the national title. So do teams like Oklahoma St, VT, etc.

VT doesn't deserve a chance at the national title right now...we lost to Clemson.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Any system that relies on human voting is clearly inferior. What other league, anywhere, does that?

You're off your rocker here. This means that you would prefer a BCS system that relies solely on computer rankings over the current BCS? You can't possibly believe that.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

It's just as wrong to arbitrarily rule someone out of the championship as it is to rule them in. Alabama is likely a top 2 team this year. They have every reason to expect a chance at the national title. So do teams like Oklahoma St, VT, etc.

At least the old bowl system didn't pretend to make a real attempt at determining the champion. That would be preferable to the BCS. Either come up with a legitimate option for a champion or don't even pretend to be trying to find one.

+1

The thing I liked about the old bowl system was you knew what you had to do. If you were #1, win and you're pretty much assured the title. Unless the #2 team played #3 and absolutely blew them out. #3 could sneak in if things swung the right way, etc. That was fine, because then you had the body of work play into things. You have an undefeated team who played cupcakes shut out when an 11-1 team who played and beat 4 of the top 5 teams in the country and beat all but one win based upon their body of work.

The problem I have with the current system is that they still have the traditional bowl locations. LSU is going to have a freaking home field advantage in the title game. Same goes for USC/UCLA when the game is at the Rose Bowl. Play the game on a neutral field or somewhere that is not going to favor one conference champion over another.

Another issue is now, the majority of years there is dispute over who the second team is in the title game. How often have there been a clear cut #1 and #2. Additionally, for all those who claim the sanctity of the regular season, Alabama is a virtual shoo-in for the title game. What did the game against LSU mean for them, other than they don't have an additional tough game in the SEC title game? What happens if Alabama defeats LSU in the title game, what happens to the "importance of the regular season" then?

BCS proponents are speaking out of both sides of their mouth. With the playoff system take the conference winners. Have a random draw and random selection of where the games are played. If there are at-large teams (likely in a 16-team playoff), they play away games. Two things this accomplishes:

1) The importance of conference play is maximized. Win your conference and you are in. Conferences can still have title games. These still matter.
2) For the at-large teams, your body of work is still important. If you don't win your conference you are punished for it, but you are not completely out of the picture.

The other things I love about a playoff is you are not hosed due to an early season slip up. This will actually lead to better non-conference games that are used as a tune up to conference play. Texas and OSU do not need to worry about knocking each other out of the title hunt if they play in September like they do now. PSU and Alabama becomes a great tune up game to conference play. The winner of these games put themselves in great position for at-large births if they slip up during their conference schedule.

I've said it before, if we mess up the #15 or 16 team, I am much better with that then when we mess up who the #2 team is.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

And OK St lost to Iowa St, Oklahoma lost to Texas Tech, Alabama lost to LSU, etc. Ranking one of those above the others continues to be arbitrary when there's nowhere near the necessary level of inter-conference play to determine the true difference between them. Gets back to the old eye test BS that has kept FBS college football in the dark ages.

What is your suggestion to fix the problem? Rather than disagree I want to hear what you propose.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

You're off your rocker here. This means that you would prefer a BCS system that relies solely on computer rankings over the current BCS? You can't possibly believe that.

I actually prefer computers over flawed human voters. However, the computers need to be transparent. The formulas need to be known beforehand. The fact that computers cannot use margin of victory under the current system, yet human voters do is ludicrous and hamstrings the system.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

What is your suggestion to fix the problem? Rather than disagree I want to hear what you propose.

Give teams incentives for playing tough non-conference foes.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

+1

So are you in favor of the top 16 teams in the country based on computer rating and not giving auto bids to conference winners?

Just asking because I want to get a feel of what the playoff people are after.

[larrymcg421]

How much money does Southern Miss lose if they win this game?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

You're off your rocker here. This means that you would prefer a BCS system that relies solely on computer rankings over the current BCS? You can't possibly believe that.

A system that has nothing do with popularity would be an improvement over the sham that is the BCS. I will take my computer rankings over the good 'ol boy rankings any day of the week.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

So are you in favor of the top 16 teams in the country based on computer rating and not giving auto bids to conference winners?

Just asking because I want to get a feel of what the playoff people are after.

Answered lower in my post. Take the conference winners, and then fill the remainder of the field with at-large teams.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

So are you in favor of the top 16 teams in the country based on computer rating and not giving auto bids to conference winners?

Just asking because I want to get a feel of what the playoff people are after.

Major conference champs get in. Computers determine which minor conference champs get in and which at-large teams get in.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Answered lower in my post. Take the conference winners, and then fill the remainder of the field with at-large teams.

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Major conference champs get in. Computers determine which minor conference champs get in and which at-large teams get in.

This.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Answered lower in my post. Take the conference winners, and then fill the remainder of the field with at-large teams.

Ok thanks, sorry I missed that part. I skim through a lot.

[DeToxRox]

Amazing.

[Logan]

Wow, what a block!

[Grover]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

How much money does Southern Miss lose if they win this game?

I believe I heard CUSA would get something like $8m if Houston won and potentially got a BCS bowl.

edit: apparently $17m. Southern Miss would get around $3m

[RomaGoth]

Houston is in trouble.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Major conference champs get in. Computers determine which minor conference champs get in and which at-large teams get in.

Thanks.

This is all I was after. Atleast I am getting consistency from most in this thread.


The "computers suck we need a playoff" people I dont get because I cant figure out how they expect to find a decent playoff without the use of computers in some way.

[DeToxRox]

I really wanted to see Michigan/Houston in the Sugar Bowl, but that sure isn't looking likely now. If Michigan gets into the BCS it seems likely it'll be against TCU now.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I've said it before, if we mess up the #15 or 16 team, I am much better with that then when we mess up who the #2 team is.

This.

[Young Drachma]

Well if this game doesn't send Sumlin packing for an upgrade job and a payday, nothing will.

[jbergey22]

Big play by Houston. Stupid throw by Davis.

[cartman]

Houston isn't done quite yet. Nearly a pick 6 for them.

[whomario]

Houston D comes right back with an Int of their own, Hayes finishes it and now only 21-28

[molson]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I've said it before, if we mess up the #15 or 16 team, I am much better with that then when we mess up who the #2 team is.

I get that, but that 16/17 debate (ignoring conferences for a second) makes things even stranger and less desirable for me. Let's see, which team should have a chance at a championship, Baylor or Michigan? I can't get past my belief that the answer is "neither".

[jbergey22]

I dont get this "You have to play conventional talk" in this Houston/Sou Miss game. Its not the NFL.

Houston has a great shot of making the 4th and 1. Even if they punt S Miss has a great shot of scoring again.

If you are LSU/Alabama yes you punt but not when you have a great offense and crappy defense and are down 2 tds.

Maybe it works out and they get this fumble.

[DeToxRox]

I am not trying to say Michigan would destroy Houston, it would be a close game, but I could see UM running for 300 yards as a team, if not more.

[DeToxRox]

Well my post seems irrelevant now.

[Young Drachma]

Too much Call of Duty for Houston, it seems.