Soccer Thread 2012-13

[bhlloy]

RVP to Manure. Less than Andy Carroll as well. At least Arsene can buy 24 new French 19 year olds that nobody has heard of for a million each now, will make him happy

[chesapeake]

Boo.

[MIJB#19]

Van Persie could have done a lot worse, like going to the bench of Real Madrid or Barcelona... Although going from Arsenal to Man Utd feels weird, I have no idea what other club in the world would have made more sense for him to join at this point in his career. It had to be one of the big clubs, the Spanish are career wasters, Chelsea would be wrong with the London rivalry, AC Milan or Internazionale the wrong kind of league, making Bayern München the only other sensible option.

[Big Fo]

It amazes me that some adults actually use "Manure" for Manchester United. It's so embarrassing.

Obviously van Persie is one of the best players in the league, and last year I think he was the best player. So I'm happy with the signing. But he has been injury-prone and Man Utd already had a lot of depth at that position while there are problems in other positions which seem as if they will remain unresolved. The other thing is that I wonder how Rooney, RVP, and the other big new signing Kagawa will fit into the same team. One of them (Kagawa or Rooney most likely) will have to play out of position unless we are facing one of the weaker EPL teams at home.

Piers Morgan is having a nice meltdown on Twitter if anyone is into that kind of thing. What a moron. And I don't know how all Arsenal fans think but no Manchester United fan considers Arsenal to be their club's "No1 rival." I'm pretty sure the vast majority of Arsenal fans hate Spurs more anyway.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Van Persie could have done a lot worse, like going to the bench of Real Madrid or Barcelona... Although going from Arsenal to Man Utd feels weird, I have no idea what other club in the world would have made more sense for him to join at this point in his career. It had to be one of the big clubs, the Spanish are career wasters, Chelsea would be wrong with the London rivalry, AC Milan or Internazionale the wrong kind of league, making Bayern München the only other sensible option.

I think he'd play a bunch for any club out there. At Real I think he's better than either Higuain or Benzema. He wouldn't move Messi out of the middle for Barcelona obviously, but with RVP being a pretty versatile kind of attacker he could compete with Villa (coming off a broken leg), Sanchez, and Pedro for one of the other attacking spots. Maybe he wouldn't start every game for Barca but I really don't think he would be a benchwarmer.

[Grover]

Just read the Piers twitter page. Outstanding stuff. What a petulant little child.

24m for a player with 12 months to run on his contract (to a rival or not) is fantastic business. Wenger knows they weren't going to compete with United or City for first. I still think they've got the driver's seat for third without van Persie.

[cschex]

I think RvP will be fantastic for ManU until the 2nd international break where inevitably he'll break or tear something for the Dutch. It's amazing how many of his injuries over the years seemed to come from those games.

As for Arsenal, I do hope Arsene considers another striker for depth, considering right now its Giroud, Podolski (who's really going to be playing on the left) and 3 players on their way out in Chamakh/Bendtner/Park. Swiping Victor Moses from under Chelsea's nose wouldn't be a bad move.

Oh, and buy a f***ing fulback

[OldGiants]

Van Persie will never have another season like last year, so selling him at peak value is a Wenger-like move that I thought should have happened earlier--like soon after he bought the two Forwards who will provide as much as Van Persie did last year.

So I suspect he has players in mind and needed ready cash to pull off the deals. We'll see.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Grover

Just read the Piers twitter page. Outstanding stuff. What a petulant little child.

24m for a player with 12 months to run on his contract (to a rival or not) is fantastic business. Wenger knows they weren't going to compete with United or City for first. I still think they've got the driver's seat for third without van Persie.

24m for a player with 12 months to run on his contract, a consistent track record of missing about a third of each season through injury, and at an age where he's not likely to improve on last year (though when he's fit, he should still be very good).

Wenger's gambling that Giroud or Podolski can score goals in the Premiership, but just looking at the fee it's a good deal. Especially as Spurs are rumored to be selling Modric - who's two years younger, better at staying fit, on a longer contract, and similarly brilliant on the pitch - for a similar amount.

[Grover]

I still think Arsenal should go after Yann M'Vila. I don't get why Wenger backed off, unless it was a cash thing.

[Critch]

If I was an Arsenal fan (which I'm not) I'd be more than happy with a summer that saw a want-away van Persie out with Podolski, Carzola and Giroud in. The three ins more than make up for the one out.

I havent been this sure a player was going to be a huge success in EPL as I am for Carzola since Man City signed Edin Dzeko.

And if I was a Man Utd fan (which I'm not) I'd be seriously happy about RVP too. Welbeck's 9 goals in 30 games as a striker is one of the main reasons they lost out in the league. Overrated cos he's young and English, RVP is a different level.

So in summary, everybody should be happy.

[sovereignstar v2]

phew!

He can't play midfield, right?

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

It amazes me that some adults actually use "Manure" for Manchester United. It's so embarrassing.

What like Mn Utd fans calling City - Man Shitty

(its traditional - nothing at all wrong with it imho, bit like having a go at 'cashley cole' ... nothing particularly nasty in it usually ... just friendly banter and ribbing)

Obviously van Persie is one of the best players in the league, and last year I think he was the best player. So I'm happy with the signing. But he has been injury-prone and Man Utd already had a lot of depth at that position while there are problems in other positions which seem as if they will remain unresolved. The other thing is that I wonder how Rooney, RVP, and the other big new signing Kagawa will fit into the same team. One of them (Kagawa or Rooney most likely) will have to play out of position unless we are facing one of the weaker EPL teams at home.

I'm expecting Rooney to flex into other positions when everyone is fit and its 'required' (central midfield mainly - he's done well in that role before), I like van Persie enough that as soon as the signing came through I transferred him into my Fantasy Football side

Piers Morgan .....

I can't stand Piers Morgan, for me the worst part of moving to Florida is the fact that for reasons unknown he's allowed to 'commentate' on matches here sporadically as if he has any understanding of the game at all .....

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Critch

And if I was a Man Utd fan (which I'm not) I'd be seriously happy about RVP too. Welbeck's 9 goals in 30 games as a striker is one of the main reasons they lost out in the league. Overrated cos he's young and English, RVP is a different level.

RVP is indeed a different class absolutely - that being said don't underestimate Welbeck he's a young kid and has great instincts and movement ... in a few years time he's going to be immense if he keeps gaining experience.

(fantastic signing for Man Utd imho - the interesting thing for me will be whether RVP can stay fit the entire season or not)

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

What like Mn Utd fans calling City - Man Shitty

(its traditional - nothing at all wrong with it imho, bit like having a go at 'cashley cole' ... nothing particularly nasty in it usually ... just friendly banter and ribbing)

That's just as bad. Same with "Liverpoo" or when I see fans starring out certain letters in their rival club's name as if it is some kind of curse word that must be censored.

After 25 minutes with Maurice Edu playing centerback in the Azteca, the USA has not conceded.

[bulletsponge]

holy shit! US 1-0 79th min

[MrBug708]

This is pretty bad for Mexico

[bulletsponge]

this is the type of game that gets mexican coaches fired

[cschex]

Tim Howard...oh my!

[Grover]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

This is pretty bad for Mexico

+10000

[MrBug708]

How does THIS team win in Azteca?

[cschex]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

How does THIS team win in Azteca?

Not only that, but how does MOF of all people score the winner?

[SirFozzie]

Stay Classy, Mexico! (US section at the Azteca has to be evacuated due to Mexico fans throwing projectiles)

[Big Fo]

This is brilliant. Days after the whole country of Mexico is on a high after winning a glorified youth tournament, a USA team lacking a handful of their best players goes into the Azteca and ends that dreadful unbeaten run Mexico had against them there.

Tim Howard and Geoff Cameron were great.

[GrantDawg]

My mind is still reeling. Had to fire up some FM2012 national management fun.

[law90026]

RvP to Man Utd makes me sick tbh.

Selling to Man City or Chelsea? You could justify that as oligarch money. Selling to Real or Barcelona (or one of the foreign big clubs)? Justify that as getting him out of the country.

Selling him to one of our former rivals? A real lack of pride imo.

Does the deal make commercial sense? Sure. But it just sends such a terrible message, that the club is a selling club to its rivals (see Man City last year).

This sale only makes sense if the money is ploughed back into more reinforcements.

[cartman]

Love this headline from over at Fark:

US beats Mexico, in Mexico. For you non-soccer fans, the degree of difficulty here is comparable to forcing your wife to admit that she's wrong about something, at your mother-in-law's dinner table

[whomario]

Was´t it also "THAT team" for Mexico ? (there had to be half a dozen or so guys that were at the olympics)

Still a great win obviously, just saying

Germany meanwhile looses to Argentina, 1:3 at home.

Bad result and for some reason the media is on the war path, but personally i was encouraged more than discouraged actually. Germany was the better team for 30 minutes, then the keeper saw the red card after fouling for a penalty (stupid rule imo and even more ridiculous to enforce it in a friendly game with 60+ minutes to go)
The new keeper Ter Stegen than came in and actually saved Messi´s penalty, but then directly before the half Khedira scored an own goal.

Then Germany had a couple great chances, Messi scored a beauty and Di Maria a freak goal and it was over.

multiple starters were missing and that resulted in the fun fact that in the 2nd half the oldest player was 24 years old.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by whomario

The new keeper Ter Stegen than came in and actually saved Messi´s penalty, but then directly before the half Khedira scored an own goal.

Marc-André ter Stegen, FM2012 God!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grover

Marc-André ter Stegen, FM2012 God!

Very true. I need to go back in this coming offseason and try to pry him away now that I'll have the cash for it.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by law90026

RvP to Man Utd makes me sick tbh.
Selling to Man City or Chelsea? You could justify that as oligarch money. Selling to Real or Barcelona (or one of the foreign big clubs)? Justify that as getting him out of the country.

I personally (as a neutral) prefer it to him going to Chelsea or Man City - it keeps competition alive and the title potentially more open.

Selling him to one of our former rivals? A real lack of pride imo.
Does the deal make commercial sense? Sure. But it just sends such a terrible message, that the club is a selling club to its rivals (see Man City last year).

Commerical sense is vital for Arsenal - they simply don't have the ability to ignore financial realities in the way which Chelsea and Man City do.

(long term do bear in mind that things will get 'interesting' at some point in the future when Man City/Chelsea's chairmen get new playthings .... football has a cyclic nature with regards to rich chairmen, they don't last forever - look at Blackburn for instance, I expect a few of you can't even remember when they were a monied club but its barely a two decades ago they broke the British transfer record signing Alan Shearer)

This sale only makes sense if the money is ploughed back into more reinforcements.

The reinforcements have already been bought, Wenger has already made some very decent signings in the off-season.

It was a 'done deal' that RVP was going tbh - most people knew it was happening, the real reason for the delay imho was to allow Wenger to make signings over the summer at economical prices.

If you sell a player for substantial funds and are known to 'need' a replacement then clubs will inflate prices accordingly, by signing replacements in advance Wenger got good deals at decent prices.

(just my take on it)

Arsenal will likely be bouncing around the Champions League spots again, on their season (ie. if they stay injury free and other title hopefuls done) they could still lift the title.

[markprior22]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

This is brilliant. Days after the whole country of Mexico is on a high after winning a glorified youth tournament, a USA team lacking a handful of their best players goes into the Azteca and ends that dreadful unbeaten run Mexico had against them there.

Tim Howard and Geoff Cameron were great.

I've given a shot at understanding the workings of soccer but still don't have a real handle on "friendlies." I thought they were basically matches to keep players in shape. I think of it as Washington-Dallas playing a preseason NFL game or unofficial summer game. But judging by the reaction to the result of this friendly match, I must be wrong. I mean, first of all, I wouldn't want to risk injury in an unofficial contest and secondly, as a fan I wouldn't be all that excited if my team won this unofficial NFL game.

So would someone explain in further detail what friendly matches are for and why there is so much excitement over the outcome of these matches?

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by markprior22

I've given a shot at understanding the workings of soccer but still don't have a real handle on "friendlies." I thought they were basically matches to keep players in shape. I think of it as Washington-Dallas playing a preseason NFL game or unofficial summer game. But judging by the reaction to the result of this friendly match, I must be wrong. I mean, first of all, I wouldn't want to risk injury in an unofficial contest and secondly, as a fan I wouldn't be all that excited if my team won this unofficial NFL game.

So would someone explain in further detail what friendly matches are for and why there is so much excitement over the outcome of these matches?

Most friendlies at club level are pointless, just to get guys in shape in preseason and/or to tour another part of the world trying to make money.

For the national teams, they are a little more important because the national teams only play around a dozen times per year so there aren't many chances to try out new players or combinations of players to see how they fit. Not that every friendly is this important by any means, a lot of them aren't a big deal at all. And next year I think FIFA is getting rid of this international date since it's just a few days before some of the European leagues play their first round of games and the clubs complain about it.

But it's always big when Mexico and USA play, it's the regions biggest rivalry by far. Additionally, USA didn't bring around half of their normal starters, had never beaten Mexico in Mexico (in part because our teams were generally pretty bad until the 1990s and we only play there every few years for various reasons), Mexico has been on a good run against the USA over the past few years, and there are fears about the future with them doing so well at youth tournaments recently compared to us. So all of that made last night's win pretty sweet. The biggest thing is that we never have to hear about never winning in Mexico again.

[markprior22]

Ok...that helps put it in perspective. Thanks for the info.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by cschex

I think RvP will be fantastic for ManU until the 2nd international break where inevitably he'll break or tear something for the Dutch. It's amazing how many of his injuries over the years seemed to come from those games.

AH, the memories. Van Persie once picked up a nasty injury because some silly Italian defender (It turns out it was Chiellini and he's certainly not made his fame by making beautiful goals ) felt he had to prove himself in a game with nothing on the line and come in from behind to keep Van Persie from trying to shoot on goal. Thankfully Van Persie was out for 'only' 5 months with that 'broken' ankle...

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

(long term do bear in mind that things will get 'interesting' at some point in the future when Man City/Chelsea's chairmen get new playthings

*sigh*

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

*sigh*

Hey I'm a Brighton fan I have to keep reminding myself of this a long time ago we were a glamour club (think Chelsea on a smaller scale) .... we fell a long long way down before starting our recent scramble up again.

The clubs which tend to be the most consistent long term performances are those who don't rely on short-term revenue or individual stars - but have committed managers to long periods and decent youth policies (the most obvious today are Man Utd and Arsenal).

[law90026]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

The reinforcements have already been bought, Wenger has already made some very decent signings in the off-season.

It was a 'done deal' that RVP was going tbh - most people knew it was happening, the real reason for the delay imho was to allow Wenger to make signings over the summer at economical prices.

If you sell a player for substantial funds and are known to 'need' a replacement then clubs will inflate prices accordingly, by signing replacements in advance Wenger got good deals at decent prices.

(just my take on it)

Arsenal will likely be bouncing around the Champions League spots again, on their season (ie. if they stay injury free and other title hopefuls done) they could still lift the title.

I think that the message sent if they take the money and sit on it is that the club is, yet again, balancing the books and that's the most important thing. Not sure how much comfort that gives the next crop of players like Ox.

Bear in mind, I'm not saying the club should overstretch like Rangers or Portsmouth but surely there's some room at a club like Arsenal to spend something? There are still areas which can be reinforced (like DM, esp if Song is leaving, and FB) and this money should be channelled towards that.

[Big Fo]

I downloaded one of those user created transfer updates for FM12 and the Rooney/RVP combo isn't doing particularly well.

[cschex]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I downloaded one of those user created transfer updates for FM12 and the Rooney/RVP combo isn't doing particularly well.

I'd actually done the same thing (as an arsenal fan) and Cazorla is awesome and Podolski is scoring at will. Obviously this is exactly what will happen.

[Critch]

In my game England won the European Championships and the World Cup. So it's maybe not great as a predictor tool

[miami_fan]

Clint Dempsey is holding out for a move from Fulham. I am not sure why Fulham did not sell him earlier.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Clint Dempsey is holding out for a move from Fulham. I am not sure why Fulham did not sell him earlier.

Money. No one is going to pay a premium price for a player while he is demanding a move.

[whomario]

Bayern is about to pay 40 mio Euros for Javi Martinez I realize he´s a young player with conderable ability allready and the Bayern bosses singled out the CM position as the biggest team need, but that´s some serious money for a player like that.
Of course you naturally have to include the "buying a player from Bilbao who can´t replace him due to their special rules" tax, but still that´s a ton.

Beside, i´m not sure (and many experts as well) if that´s really their biggest need. Imo they are lacking a clasical attacking midfielder most of all, maybe a type of player like Kagawa (or for the deeper role a guy like Modric), not a box-to-box midfielder.

But they have the money (contrary to most big clubs, they really actually have it on the bank with no minusses in sight) and if he´s the guy they want, good for them.

But as a Dortmund Fan i´m not loosing sleep over it.

[bhlloy]

First championship game Cardiff vs Huddersfield starts in an hour or so. Bring on another soul crushing season

Has anyone else seen the new channel BeIN Sport that has replaced GolTV on Direct TV? Got a text about it this morning, looking at the website seems like they are planning on showing a bunch of French, Spanish and Italian games this season

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Money. No one is going to pay a premium price for a player while he is demanding a move.

I understand that. Just interesting to see a club like Fulham playing this game of chicken.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Has anyone else seen the new channel BeIN Sport that has replaced GolTV on Direct TV? Got a text about it this morning, looking at the website seems like they are planning on showing a bunch of French, Spanish and Italian games this season

Hopefully Time Warner adds this channel soon.

In addition to La Liga + Copa del Ray, Lique 1, and Serie A they will also have the English League Cup, English Championship, South American World Cup qualifiers, and various friendlies.

Now GolTV only has the Bundesliga and some Latin American leagues. GolTV also lost the Europa League to Fox Soccer.

Basically I need channels from five different companies (ESPN, Fox, NBC, beIN Sport, GolTV) to get all the games now. It's kind of a mess.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I understand that. Just interesting to see a club like Fulham playing this game of chicken.

without knowing much of the details, but while Al Fayed certainly doesn´t seem to have ambition to spent like crazy i doubt he´ll pressure the management to sell him at just any price either.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I downloaded one of those user created transfer updates for FM12 and the Rooney/RVP combo isn't doing particularly well.

Rooney won't play up front in his usual role imho - I expect him to be played either very deep as a supporting player (with RVP scoring) or in midfield (when required) ... in that manner I think the team will excel .....

The big question for me isn't RVP fitting it, its staying fit which is the big question.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Rooney won't play up front in his usual role imho - I expect him to be played either very deep as a supporting player (with RVP scoring) or in midfield (when required) ... in that manner I think the team will excel .....

The big question for me isn't RVP fitting it, its staying fit which is the big question.

Part of the problem is that I'm also trying to fit Kagawa in and he doesn't fit a traditional 4-4-2 so well. Plus I always seem to go back to 4-4-2 or 4-4-2 with advanced wingers and I'm trying to get away from that. And Valencia always does great for me on FM so it wouldn't do to play a more narrow kind of formation.

Half the time I've played Rooney on the left of a 4-2-3-1. I also tried a 4-4-2 diamond (DMC playmaker, wide mids, Kagawa in the AMC role) but that will only work at home or against significantly less talented teams since it leaves so much space when I don't have the ball.

I've always kind of wondered how Rooney retrained as a midfielder might do on the game, his positioning and tackling aren't too bad. And he definitely has great stamina and a lot of the mental stats you'd like in a midfielder. Maybe I'll mess around with that a bit.