Have we been invaded?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

The thing is, 99% of the illegals have no chance of coming legally.

So ... fucking ... what ?

They have ZERO right to be here, short of what is provided for legally.

If they don't get here, then someone please provide them with the appropriate translation of the phrase "tough shit" (and then bill them for the f'n translation).

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I am disappointed this thread was started by BubbaWheels, it means it breaks down into crap from the get go.

I had read about the protests, which were in several cities yesterday including Atlanta, and thought it may pop up on here.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/25/imm....ap/index.html

Unfortunetly this is not the same CNN article I read earlier this morning. THat one had some different quotes which kind of bugged me. Things along the lines of comparing this to the struggle of blacks to be free in this country. That bugged me, because it is nothing like that.

The laws/bills trying to be passed call for some fairly reasonable things in my mind. I think these protests were kind of on the dumb side. And I am someone who lives on the border, and usually does not care much about illegal Mexicans. I see them all the time, I see where they come from, and I understand why they do it.

Well, next time start your own thread. What's that? You've started how many? Oh yeah, you like most followers like to sit in the back of the class and see how things break before you commit. Let's see your big effort non-driving bearded wonder.

[st.cronin]

I may have been wrong. Page 3 already? My goodness.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Bubba, if you would have started this post with this thought, there wouldn't be people messing with you.

i rarely get involved in threads like this, but i read them sometimes. Usually until clintl, Duckman or that whole crew starts posting, then i gotta stop reading. (just being honest, but im sure they'll take offense to it).

Anyway, my point is thats a lie and you know it. Bubba gets gang raped by a group of about 5-6 of you guys no matter what or how he posts. At least from what i've seen. He is to far to the right for my tastes, but im more to the right myself (for example, i tend to agree with WVUfan in this thread) so i do take some offense to the fact that you guys gang up on him and start with the name calling. Idoit, grammer, etc.... should at least try to keep it civil and debate the issue.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

At the risk of sounding harsh, to those who aren't able to come over, that's just too bad.

I work with several immigrants here that are here legally, one of which became a citizen, and they feel very strongly that illegal immigrants have no place here. Evidentally the process to get here is difficult.

What you're saying is basically open the borders to everyone. I feel the borders should be completely shut. Looks like we just have opposite opinions on this, Easy Mac. To me, we need to take care of the people here legally here now rather than allow more in.

I haven't said that at all. You argued that they should come over legally, but for them there is no legal means, its not available to them. I'm not arguing one way or the other whether we should open the border. Your statements were presented that it was just simple for these people to get over here, when as you later stated its a horribly difficult process. So the whole, they should have entered legally argument isn't applicable.

Also, I have my feelings on the subject, but I wouldn't be here if my grandfather didn't come over illegally, so I may be biased. Of course it shouldn't be unchecked and free for all, but people act as if we're somehow neglecting people here in America. I'd argue that's far from the case.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So ... fucking ... what ?

They have ZERO right to be here, short of what is provided for legally.

If they don't get here, then someone please provide them with the appropriate translation of the phrase "tough shit" (and then bill them for the f'n translation).

Why do you have a right to be here? Because you were born here? That's not a right, that fucking luck.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Why do you have a right to be here? Because you were born here? That's not a right, that fucking luck.

Well, the U.S. Constitution would disagree with you. But things like that don't seem to matter much to your kind of crowd.

[Drake]

I really want to be British (for the cool accent, mostly -- it knocks Midwestern chicks out). But just because I wasn't lucky enough to be born a Brit shouldn't mean that I can't just become one.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I haven't said that at all. You argued that they should come over legally, but for them there is no legal means, its not available to them. I'm not arguing one way or the other whether we should open the border. Your statements were presented that it was just simple for these people to get over here, when as you later stated its a horribly difficult process. So the whole, they should have entered legally argument isn't applicable.

Well, I must have misread you, then, and I certainly never said that legal immigration was easy. Easy or difficulty of legal immigration has nothing to do with this argument, to be honest, but the argument that people should enter legally is absolutely valid. I'll say again -- illegal people being allowed to live here is a slap in the face to those who did enter legally.

Also, I have my feelings on the subject, but I wouldn't be here if my grandfather didn't come over illegally, so I may be biased. Of course it shouldn't be unchecked and free for all, but people act as if we're somehow neglecting people here in America. I'd argue that's far from the case.

We certainly are neglecting people here in America. There's hundreds of thousands of homeless people here. I think that's the definition of neglect. One illegal getting health care is one more legal resident paying for it.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by Drake

I really want to be British (for the cool accent, mostly -- it knocks Midwestern chicks out). But just because I wasn't lucky enough to be born a Brit shouldn't mean that I can't just become one.

Thought from your location you all wanted to ride bikes and become Italian. (reference to a pretty good movie watched in film class.)

[Drake]

The Italian accent really only works in that movie. Or maybe it just worked in the '70's. Doesn't work anymore, trust me.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

The thing is, 99% of the illegals have no chance of coming legally. The whole "its an insult to those who came over the right way" statement is a joke. The ones who came over legally were the ones who won a lottery, got married, or already had connections. I doubt they'd feel insulted (note i don't necesarily disagree with the rest of the argument, though I think a blind eye is a purposefully overbroad statement).

As one who went through the process of becoming a permanent resident legally, it is something of an insult to hear about potential amnesty being given to illegals. After four years of headaches and stress induced by a variety of bizarre forms, fees and misinformation from the various government officials I had to deal with I finally became a permanent resident. I almost missed my wedding in doing things the legal way (fortunately made it by an hour). For illegals to simply skate by is somewhat insulting to those of us who have endured the difficulties of taking the legal route in some respects.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by Drake

The Italian accent really only works in that movie. Or maybe it just worked in the '70's. Doesn't work anymore, trust me.

Shouldn't your screen name be 'Cutter?"

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Havok

...Anyway, my point is thats a lie and you know it. Bubba gets gang raped by a group of about 5-6 of you guys no matter what or how he posts. At least from what i've seen. He is to far to the right for my tastes, but im more to the right myself (for example, i tend to agree with WVUfan in this thread) so i do take some offense to the fact that you guys gang up on him and start with the name calling. Idoit, grammer, etc.... should at least try to keep it civil and debate the issue.

In my opinion, I don't think that Bubba would have been attacked if he just would of first stated his thoughts instead of starting off a post saying that 10,000 illegal immigrants are protesting in major cities. If he wants to start a discussion, that's one thing, but to start the thread by questioning whether this is an invasion and focusing on the fact that they are waving Mexican flags was going to be ripe material for ridicule. He didn't start this out in a civil matter and it will probably not end that way.

If you read the rest of the post that you responded too, you may find that there are some points that I agree with WVUfan. In fact, I agreed that they are the same problems. However it seems to me that Bubba wanted to warp information to start a heated debate when he didn't need to.

[kenparker23]

By default, we grant health passes to illegal aliens. Yet many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.

What is seen is the political statistic that 43 million lives are at risk in America because of lack of medical insurance. What is unseen is that medical insurance does not equal medical care. Uninsured people receive medical care in hospital emergency departments (EDs) under the coercive Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1985 (EMTALA), which obligates hospitals to treat the uninsured but does not pay for that care. Also unseen is the percentage of the uninsured who are illegal aliens. No one knows how many illegal aliens reside in America. If there are 10 million, they constitute nearly 25 percent of the uninsured. The percentage could be even higher.

High-technology EDs have degenerated into free medical offices. Between 1993 and 2003, 60 California hospitals closed because half their services became unpaid. Another 24 California hospitals verge on closure. Even ambulances from Mexico come to American EDs with indigents because the drivers know that EMTALA requires accepting patients who come.

Children born to illegals instantly qualify for public welfare aid. Between 300,000 and 350,000 anchor babies annually become citizens because of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: 'All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside.'

Source: Adeleine Pelner Cosman, Ph.D., Esq.The Journal of the American Physicians and Surgeons, Volume 10 Number 1 - Spring 2005

Last year the taxpayers who finance Medicaid paid the hospital bill for 6,000 illegal aliens to have their babies in Colorado. This totaled $30 million, an average of $5,000 per baby. Those 6,000 births to illegal aliens are 40% of the births Medicaid paid for in Colorado. Those 6,000 babies immediately became U.S. citizens and qualified for all Medicaid services at a cost that is not even tabulated.

These are just a few examples of what faces the industry that I am in. I saw a patient two months. He was here on a greencard and had insurance. He cut his finger off and we did a revision amputation. Last week the same patient came into the clinic with a broken ankle. He still had a dressing on the finger. Only this time he had a new name and had NO insurance. Turns out, he had his buddy's greencard. We talked to the OBGYN guys and this guy had three kids while using this alias.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Well, the U.S. Constitution would disagree with you. But things like that don't seem to matter much to your kind of crowd.

Declaration of Independance disagrees with you, but that doesn't seem to matter much with your crowd.

[tanglewood]

Okay, an honest question:

What do people have against immigration?

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Okay, an honest question:

What do people have against immigration?

Legal Immigration, you mean?

In general, nothing. In today's world, lots. The United States is overcrowded, and we're having troubles supporting who we have here now. New immigrants only serves to augment the problem.

Of course, I'm very much a fan of a policy of isolationism, so I may be biased.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Declaration of Independance disagrees with you, but that doesn't seem to matter much with your crowd.

Really? Missed the part about not being able to make our own sovereign laws regarding immigration. But I do think the intent even back then was that people who lived here were supposed to work for a living and pay for their own health care and such.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

The United States is overcrowded

You've obviously never been to New Mexico.

[GrantDawg]

"We hold these truths to be self evident, that all white men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. The rest of y'all can suck it."

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

I agree. One of the draws that brings illegals to our country is our laws protect them. Instead of doing what we should be doing when they are discovered, we instead cottle them and treat them and educate them.

It should not be the responsibility of this country to educate and treat citizens of other countries. I certainly do not want to pay for it with my tax money, but yet that is what we do. And yet I seem to remember there being a big to-do when Swartzeneggar vetoed a law that would allow illegals to have driver's licenses, when that should be apparent to everyone illegals are not "entitled" to ANYTHING from us, except a trip back to the border.

Except your country would not run without them. Too many American's don't want to do the jobs the illegal immigrants do at the price they do it - you don't want to pay more for your houses, you want to keep your "farmers", and so forth. Moreover, a country built on the back of immigration sure seems xenophobic when the immigrants come from the wrong part of town. I understand the frustration with immigration, but this idea that immigration detracts (as a whole) rather than adds is ridiculous.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Why do you have a right to be here? Because you were born here?

Read the Constitution lately?

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

You've obviously never been to New Mexico.

Heh. Went through Army training in Fort Huachuca, az. That's close enough. :-)

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Really? Missed the part about not being able to make our own sovereign laws regarding immigration. But I do think the intent even back then was that people who lived here were supposed to work for a living and pay for their own health care and such.

Well they fucked up on that second part.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Legal Immigration, you mean?

In general, nothing. In today's world, lots. The United States is overcrowded, and we're having troubles supporting who we have here now. New immigrants only serves to augment the problem.

Of course, I'm very much a fan of a policy of isolationism, so I may be biased.

The United States is very clearly not overcrowded by any measure, geographic, economic or cultural, applicable.

WRT the Declaration of Independance, the preamble is what I was specifically refering to. And to brush it off as 'Well, that was a specific event between the latent USA and Britain' is disengenous, if not intellectually dishonest. The Jeffersonian ideals in that document that lead to the core principles of the founding of the US are certainly applicable in this situation. Why should someone who is born south of the Rio Grande have less rights to healthcare than someone born to the north of it?

I do find two specific things ironic about the immigration debate currently being waged in the US, and indeed much of the Western world. Firstly, that conservatives, obstensibly in favour of the rights of the individual and personal freedom, are those most intent on clearly restricting such choice and freedom. Secondly, that if you were to ask westerners about emmigration, they would be far more in favour of their personal right to leave their nation and move to another than they seem to be in extending such privileges to foriegners.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

At the risk of sounding harsh, to those who aren't able to come over, that's just too bad.

I work with several immigrants here that are here legally, one of which became a citizen, and they feel very strongly that illegal immigrants have no place here. Evidentally the process to get here is difficult.

What you're saying is basically open the borders to everyone. I feel the borders should be completely shut. Looks like we just have opposite opinions on this, Easy Mac. To me, we need to take care of the people here legally here now rather than allow more in.

I'm a legal immigrant here. Silicon Valley, for example, is built on the back on the legal immigrants who brought their intelligence and expertise to this country, and who have created far more weath than they came with. In fact, one of the reason for the success of the US has been its ability to attract top level talent from all over the world - the "brain gain", as opposed to "brain drain." Closing the borders is nothing more than a sop to a xenophobic element that forgets that immigration (legal even!) is one of the primary sources of labor and creative capital in this country.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Except your country would not run without them. Too many American's don't want to do the jobs the illegal immigrants do at the price they do it - you don't want to pay more for your houses, you want to keep your "farmers", and so forth. Moreover, a country built on the back of immigration sure seems xenophobic when the immigrants come from the wrong part of town. I understand the frustration with immigration, but this idea that immigration detracts (as a whole) rather than adds is ridiculous.

While I can't argue with some of what you said, lemme center on something specific that I can:

American's don't want to do the jobs the illegal immigrants do at the price they do it

Now, while a majority of this problem lies with the companies that hire the illegals, the reason why legal residents aren't willing to do it for that price is because illegals will do it for significantly less than what's allowed by law.

If immigration laws were enforces and tightened, we can eliminate the companies and individuals who are hiring illegals and force a living wage for those jobs. There are people in this country legally that would do those jobs if they offered a reasonable wage.

Illegals make the problem worse by being a cheap labor force, and companies are the blame to hiring them.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Read the Constitution lately?

poorly phrased on my part. More in the grand scheme of things than country specific, but i award you a point.

My count:
Easy Mac 2,143,245 (rounded up)
Jon 7

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Except your country would not run without them. Too many American's don't want to do the jobs the illegal immigrants do at the price they do it - you don't want to pay more for your houses, you want to keep your "farmers", and so forth. Moreover, a country built on the back of immigration sure seems xenophobic when the immigrants come from the wrong part of town. I understand the frustration with immigration, but this idea that immigration detracts (as a whole) rather than adds is ridiculous.

This is the crap the corporate-types are shoveling at us. 'Too many Americans don't want...' my hairy eye-ball. Smaller labor pools mean bigger wages for those looking for jobs, and just maybe alot of those 'jobs Americans don't want to do' will suddenly become desirable. And if they don't, then maybe the market will just eliminate them altogether like gas-pumpers and shoe-shiners. Not too many of those living off social-assistance programs to make up for 'low wages.'

Look at that post earlier from that guy boasting he had his roof done by illegals. The contractors are making killings off of low-wage workers. How many able-bodied U.S. citizens AND LEGAL residents are working low-paying crap jobs or just unemployed that could be making decent wages in roofing but can't get hired by the contractors? And that guy is proud of it!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

poorly phrased on my part. More in the grand scheme of things than country specific, but i award you a point.

My count:
Easy Mac 2,143,245 (rounded up)
Jon 7

Criminy, your math is worse than your politics

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

This is the crap the corporate-types are shoveling at us. 'Too many Americans don't want...' my hairy eye-ball. Smaller labor pools mean bigger wages for those looking for jobs, and just maybe alot of those 'jobs Americans don't want to do' will suddenly become desirable. And if they don't, then maybe the market will just eliminate them altogether like gas-pumpers and shoe-shiners. Not too many of those living off social-assistance programs to make up for 'low wages.'

Look at that post earlier from that guy boasting he had his roof done by illegals. The contractors are making killings off of low-wage workers. How many able-bodied U.S. citizens AND LEGAL residents are working low-paying crap jobs or just unemployed that could be making decent wages in roofing but can't get hired by the contractors? And that guy is proud of it!

Embrace free market capitalism you un-American pinko!

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

The United States is very clearly not overcrowded by any measure, geographic, economic or cultural, applicable.

I disagree 100%, though I suppose it depends on your definition.

WRT the Declaration of Independance, the preamble is what I was specifically refering to. And to brush it off as 'Well, that was a specific event between the latent USA and Britain' is disengenous, if not intellectually dishonest. The Jeffersonian ideals in that document that lead to the core principles of the founding of the US are certainly applicable in this situation. Why should someone who is born south of the Rio Grande have less rights to healthcare than someone born to the north of it?

Because one person is a citizen and one is not. Because we pay taxes and are entitled to rights as citizens of this country that others aren't. Because that's simply the way it is, and the way it should be.

I find is funny that people believe that everyone should be entitled to the rights and privilages that citizens have in this country.

I do find two specific things ironic about the immigration debate currently being waged in the US, and indeed much of the Western world. Firstly, that conservatives, obstensibly in favour of the rights of the individual and personal freedom, are those most intent on clearly restricting such choice and freedom. Secondly, that if you were to ask westerners about emmigration, they would be far more in favour of their personal right to leave their nation and move to another than they seem to be in extending such privileges to foriegners.

No, conservatives are concerned about the rights of the individual citizen and legal resident. I personally do not care ONE ... SINGLE ... IOTA about the "rights" of someone here illegally. To me, they have none. Illegals HAVE no choice and freedom.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Criminy, your math is worse than your politics

Oddly, in real life people would argue that statement is backwards.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I'm a legal immigrant here. Silicon Valley, for example, is built on the back on the legal immigrants who brought their intelligence and expertise to this country, and who have created far more weath than they came with. In fact, one of the reason for the success of the US has been its ability to attract top level talent from all over the world - the "brain gain", as opposed to "brain drain." Closing the borders is nothing more than a sop to a xenophobic element that forgets that immigration (legal even!) is one of the primary sources of labor and creative capital in this country.

You need to reread your own post. Concentrate on the word 'legal.'

[Celeval]

Seems to me there are two distinct questions.

- Should legal immigration be made easier/more accessible?
- Should illegal immigration be deterred?

I'm honest enough to know that I don't have a strong opinion on the first. I don't have the experience, I don't have anything to lean on, so that's that.

But plain and simple, illegal immigration is illegal. Doesn't matter if it's hispanic, canadian, irish, or anything else - my ancestors, like almost everyone else's, came over on boats. For me, it was Ireland and Italy... but they came over, checked in, and went through the legal processes to become citizens; and that's why I am one now. I agree that the US is a country built in immigration, but that's not an excuse to skip the rules while we're at it.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Embrace free market capitalism you un-American pinko!

Fair trade, not Free trade.

[Easy Mac]

Does anyone else find it odd that Conservatives here are arguing that Americans need higher wages and the Liberals are arguing against them (to put the argument in simple terms).

My feelings. If they're getting away with it now by hiring illegal workers, why wouldn't they be able to get away with it with legal workers? It's obvious they're somehow operating outside the law with relative ease, I don't know that it would change that much without illegals. And I do believe there are jobs that even the poorest Americans feel they are above, and those are a lot of the jobs illegals take (note I'm not saying all).

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So ... fucking ... what ?

They have ZERO right to be here, short of what is provided for legally.

If they don't get here, then someone please provide them with the appropriate translation of the phrase "tough shit" (and then bill them for the f'n translation).

Compassionate conservatism at its finest!

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

How many able-bodied U.S. citizens AND LEGAL residents are working low-paying crap jobs or just unemployed that could be making decent wages in roofing but can't get hired by the contractors?

I would guess not that many. How many citizens are going to run to be the first to roof someone's house for $5.15 an hour?

[tanglewood]

WVUFan, soryy if I am being slightly unclear.

What I am trying to get at is not so much the specific situation of illegal/legal immigration and justifying one over the other. I am more as in why do states even have immigration quotas in the first place? Is there anything about being born in the US that makes you inherently superior merely through the virtue of the passport you carry? If there are no immigration quotas (i.e. all immigration is legal) then they could be easily integrated into the tax system as they would have no more reason to hide from the IRS than the millions of native Americans (not Native Americans, although i'm sure they have their fair share of tax dodgers too) who do so every year.

Therefore, this anxeity over immigration is either a) a valid complaint that the country is 'too crowded' or b) xenephobia. The former is of course patently untrue. The United States in terms of capita per square mile is one of the least densley populated states in the Western world and almost ridiculously empty compared to Europe. Economically, the US economy is currently in very healthy shape and standards of living are the highest in the world, indeed highest they have ever been. Culturally, and here I believe is where the biggest fear, conscious or not, originates, there is no rational reason why the latest influx of Mexicans in the last two decades will be any more harmful than the countless waves of specific ethinic groups to have hit the US in its history. Even if one argues that this example is the straw that breaks the camel's back, there are far more ethnically and culturally diverse nations than the USA in the world (off the top of my head Australia, Singapore, India, China and so on) that are very stable both economically and socially. This has always lead me to the belief that anti-immigrationists are essentially afraid of change and the unknown. A fear that the USA will become more and more hispanic orientatedk which is most likely correct, but any objective opinion that such a situation would be less preferable to the anglo-saxon orientated tilt the USA has had for its 230 years to date is pretty groundless.

[Celeval]

The odd thing is that this is talked about as if the United States was the only country in the world with immigration controls, as opposed to one of... um... well... all of them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Compassionate conservatism at its finest!

Sorry, but I've never staked out that position, not my bag.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Is there anything about being born in the US that makes you inherently superior merely through the virtue of the passport you carry?

Yes. In my opinion, and those of the founding fathers who granted rights to natural-born citizens that no one else has, a citizen of the US is superior to all other groups.

If there are no immigration quotas (i.e. all immigration is legal) then they could be easily integrated into the tax system as they would have no more reason to hide from the IRS than the millions of native Americans (not Native Americans, although i'm sure they have their fair share of tax dodgers too) who do so every year.

Or we can close the borders and not have to worry about it at all. The US has no need for any more immigrants. It does not serve itself by opening borders whatsoever.

there are far more ethnically and culturally diverse nations than the USA in the world (off the top of my head Australia, Singapore, India, China and so on) that are very stable both economically and socially...

You're calling China and Singapore culterally diverse? That right there devalues your whole argument, IMO.

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by Celeval

The odd thing is that this is talked about as if the United States was the only country in the world with immigration controls, as opposed to one of... um... well... all of them.

Funny you mention that. Wonder if all of those 'Mexican flag waving protestors' in the streets Friday and Saturday would like to comment on Mexico's policy of using its own armed forces to close off its southern border with Guatemala and preventing Guatemala's 'illegal immigrants' from getting into Mexico. That would make for some interesting TV viewing.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Funny you mention that. Wonder if all of those 'Mexican flag waving protestors' in the streets Friday and Saturday would like to comment on Mexico's policy of using its own armed forces to close off its southern border with Guatemala and preventing Guatemala's 'illegal immigrants' from getting into Mexico. That would make for some interesting TV viewing.

No, see, to the lefties this doesn't matter, because America is responsible for the whole world. We're beholden to let anyone who wants in to the country in regardless.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Yes. In my opinion, and those of the founding fathers who granted rights to natural-born citizens that no one else has, a citizen of the US is superior to all other groups.

Well that is so patently absurd it's barely worth responding to.

You're calling China and Singapore culterally diverse? That right there devalues your whole argument, IMO.

Singapore is certainly one of the most culturally diverse nations in the world! Ethinically it is made up of predominatly Chinese, Indian and Malaysian groups but also significant numbers of Arabs, Sri Lankans and other Asian ethinicities. Religiously it is tremndously diverse, with all major religions being well represented on the island. Linguistically, it has four official languages in English, Mandrin, Tamil and Malay. Also its history as an outpost of the British Empire means that it has a very significant Western liberal heritige, which combined with eastern Taoism and Asian traditions makes it tremmendously multicultural.

As for China, it always has been a very common misconception in the West that it is a homogenus nationstate. China has always to some extent been artifically held together by an artificial central power source, right from the Mongol invasion to the present Communist Party, although I suspect that 50 years of endless propoganda with the help of modern mass-media has to some extent forged a collective national idendity, at least to the degree that if democracy were to arrive China would most likely not split up (disregarding Taiwan and Tibet of course). Nonetheless, there are still many, many distinct and sperate ethinc groups in China, each with their own languages and heritages. Also despite the official atheism of the government all religions are represented, from Orthodox Christianity to the more traditional Tao and Buddhism. Merely because it has always been convienient for the West to think of the Chinese as, well the Chinese, does not make it reality.


I would like to continue more discussion on the topic of immigration, as I find it incredibly fascinating and enjoy talking about it, but alas I must retire to my bed.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Funny you mention that. Wonder if all of those 'Mexican flag waving protestors' in the streets Friday and Saturday would like to comment on Mexico's policy of using its own armed forces to close off its southern border with Guatemala and preventing Guatemala's 'illegal immigrants' from getting into Mexico. That would make for some interesting TV viewing.

That would quite possibly be the lowest rated TV show of all time, breaking the record set by "Watching the paint dry in the C-Span Studios"

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Well that is so patently absurd it's barely worth responding to.

Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution.

[Desnudo]

I think the lowest rated tv show of all time would be someone reading the posts from this thread aloud.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I think the lowest rated tv show of all time would be someone reading the posts from this thread aloud.

Would that be rated lower than someone miming the posts from this thread?