We're back! TPB 2005 thoughts

[Gary Gorski]

hmm, apparently a bug in the system here - I have planned to release a patch tomorrow afternoon. I will find this bug and kill it tonight so that its patched tomorrow. My apologies for the bug and the delay it will cause you in playing but I will get it fixed for you tomorrow.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

hmm, apparently a bug in the system here - I have planned to release a patch tomorrow afternoon. I will find this bug and kill it tonight so that its patched tomorrow. My apologies for the bug and the delay it will cause you in playing but I will get it fixed for you tomorrow.

Cool. You may not see this, because it is on the previous page now, but I edited the post to add a screen shot. Perhaps it can provide you some clues.

[Gary Gorski]

actually Ben, Im going to be up for another 20 minutes or so - if you wanted to email me your leaguename.tpb file I could fix the error in your file for you and send it back

EDIT - I found the bug and while the patch tomorrow will fix it if you want to continue on with that save Im going to have to go in and edit something through the code that frees up your guy as GM so if you send me that file and also send the career.tpb file that is in yourleaguename folder then I will be happy to fix it for you so you can continue your career.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

actually Ben, Im going to be up for another 20 minutes or so - if you wanted to email me your leaguename.tpb file I could fix the error in your file for you and send it back

I just uploaded it. Grab it [HERE].
If you e-mail it back, please zip it up, as I'm going to bed now, and that sucker will take up over half of my e-mail inbox quota, I think.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I just uploaded it. Grab it [HERE].
If you e-mail it back, please zip it up, as I'm going to bed now, and that sucker will take up over half of my e-mail inbox quota, I think.

Ok, I will fix it up and email it back (zipped) - my only suggestion once you get it back is to wait until the patch tomorrow before you venture off into more seasons so your GM player doesnt get stuck again

[Ben E Lou]

Will do. I won't really have time to play until after the Tucker game tomorrow night (around 10pm-ish) anyway. Thanks for the excellent service!

--Ben

[MizzouRah]

Gary has been providing some great customer service indeed.

Hats off...


Todd

[Gary Gorski]

Ok Ben, I sent the file back to you - LMK if you didnt get it because of your email being too full or something.

[jbmagic]

gary awesome support for the game...


skydog nice to use trying out TPB 2005....you been awesome for ootp

[Pumpy Tudors]

Great game. Loving it so far. Thanks for the PM you sent me, Gary. I appreciate it!

[skrath]

Gary, I am very impressed with the game and also your quick and pleasant customer service. I always believe in helping out a fellow sports sim coder, so I purchased it today. Well done on yours (and GD's) successes so far.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Hmm...I actually loved TPB. Even if in my fictional 16-team league, I am not quite in the top tier after six years of trying. Anyway...looks like more money going into Gary's bank account soon from me. Damn you Grey Dog Software!

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Sounds like an immersive game. Gotta beat Ratchet & Clank first though.

[Chief Rum]

Gary, great game. Gary, awful manual.

Sorry, we just need more detail than this.

For instance, I am really frustrated right now because, for the life of me, I can't figure out how to put a player on the trade block.

If anyone knows how, please let me know. Thanks.

CR

[Chief Rum]

I figured it out. For those who don't know, go under the "Offer Trade" button on the Roster screen, and simply drag your chosen player down to the trade block box (the empty box below your end of the roster screen).

CR

[dubb93]

Well going into the 3rd season of my "serious" dynasty with the bulls.

The first season was horrible. We had a worse record than the bobcats(read: worst record in the league), but still managed to get the 4th pick in the draft. On top of this we were horribly over the cap and couldn't sign anyone. The bright spot of the season was Ben Gordon who led our team in scoring with 15.2ppg.

In the offseason we used the 4th pick to get another PF, just what we needed(sarcasm here). PF Isaac Datcher from Fresno State a college Jr. He came in his Rookie year and won ROY honors dropping 10 and grabbing 8 a game. Ben Gordon increased him average to 21.9ppg and both our other big men had breakout years, Curry and Chandler. We were actually in 1st place untill the final stretch of the season found us dropping 18 of the last 20 and getting swept in the first round by the Pacers. Still we were 40-42.

We move to the offseason with over 27 mill in cap space and the big prize Shaq sitting in the waits, so I make the move and offer him the max contract. 141 mill over 6 seasons. No one else had the cap room, and Miami had just come off a season in which Shaq missed the entire last 2 months of the year and the playoffs. This came with a price as when Shaq is 39, he will be due 30 mill by us and untill then the free agency period is off limits.

Other than this one major signing it appears that CPU teams always resign 4/4 and over guys. I also noticed that guys who wanted 15 mill on day 1 lower to around 5-8 by day 15ish. But anyway I head into my 3rd season with a team I feel very good about.

PG Kirk Hinrich
SG Ben Gordon
SF Isaac Datcher
PF Eddie Curry
C Shaq
6th Tyson Chandler
7th Leandro Barbosa
8th Jim Jackson
spot players: Kareem Rush, Scott Costello(rookie 1st rounder), Stephen Abrams(2nd year 2nd rounder), Clarence Weathersoon, Jake Voskuhl

With 6'10 236, 6'11 285, and 7'1 340 across my front line(and 7'1 235 on the bench) I don't see how any team will match up against us, especially when all of these guys are very talented offensive players. My only worry is that we are really only 8 deep.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Gary, great game. Gary, awful manual.

Gotta agree with both of these sentiments. The manual definitely needs more detail. I was excited to see that it was 41 pages long, so I printed the whole thing out before I really even started playing, but I'm not sure printing it out did much but waste paper. The one positive (and I hope other developers are listening) is that it was made available as a PDF--an easy print, *much* easier, for example, than hitting F1 everywhere to print out the Solecismic help screens. I mentioned one specific: no explanation of what the ratings do. There are plenty of other details like this that probably should be added.

[Gary Gorski]

Fair enough CR and Ben - that's a valid critique and something I will look to do better in the future. Maybe if there are FAQs I can produce an addendum to the manual or a quick tips sheet or something. I have to say that in all honesty the manual was pretty much the last priority on the list - far below making the game work right and play great because alot of people will have the game and not even know there is a manual

There's always room for improvement so I will improve - does make me happy though if someone's biggest gripe is that the manual isn't so good - a far, far cry from what the biggest complaints were the last time around

[jbmagic]

i second that i like to know what each rating means too

thanks

[VPI97]

I bought the game last night based on this thread. Great work, Gary!

It's been fun despite the fact that I have yet to break 30 wins in a season (3 years). Of course, since I started as the Hawks, that just means I'm treading water...I'll have $35 mil in cap room the next offseason, so hopefully things will improve.

[jbmagic]

here some good Info, that Gary said for roles that your coach, gm and assistants has..


"In terms of player development thats primarily the head coach and that plays a role in whether or not the player gets an increase in ratings during the season and after training camp"

"in terms of scouting its a group effort between the GM and 4 coaches (with each one weighted differently) so the better their evaluating skills the more accurate their assesment will be."

"game strategy is by the head coach - the assistants are mainly for help in evaluating players and are there for you to develop to maybe be a head coach later"

[Gary Gorski]

Thanks VPI97 - hope you enjoy it

jb - I believe there is a thread on that at they grey dog forums (for some reason I thought maybe even you asked that question there) - Ive got to run to lunch now but if you havent found it I will point it out to you when I come back

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by John Galt

A couple questions/requests:

Can someone with the full game assess the draft and free agency AI? Without knowing the details there, it is impossible to know the overall quality of the game.

Also, does the game require administrative rights to install (the demo doesn't)?

Internal thread bump.

[Gary Gorski]

JG - I don't think the game would require administrative rights to install - at least I didnt program anything intentionally into it that would cause that and if the demo didnt then the full version should be no different since its the same install with a different exe

I can asses the draft and free agency AI (they're very solid) but I think you'd probably rather hear from someone other than the developer on that

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

JG - I don't think the game would require administrative rights to install - at least I didnt program anything intentionally into it that would cause that and if the demo didnt then the full version should be no different since its the same install with a different exe

I can asses the draft and free agency AI (they're very solid) but I think you'd probably rather hear from someone other than the developer on that

Thanks.

Now, someone tell me about the draft and free agency AI. Pretty, please.

[Gary Gorski]

FWIW JG I'd be happy to answer any questions you have if you have specific ones - if you want just general feedback on it, like I said, I would be happy to provide that but it probably means more coming from someone else

[The_herd]

Trade AI is excellent. One of the better trade models I've seen in a text sim. In the 6 seasons I've played I've only seen a coulple deals that didn't make sense for one of the teams. But even those trades were far from one sided. Free agent AI is really good as well. There is a realistic amount of movement. I've seen players take less money just to get out of a bad situation and I've seen players on bad teams stay because they could offer more money.

I posted this in Aadik's thread requesting info about the AI. NBA draft AI is tough to judge. The NBA draft has become so much about drafting the best available player and less about need that it makes it tough to judge. Free agency looks to be spot on from what I've seen. Proven players get big deals and guys that have flashed some potential will often have that one team that opens their wallets out of desperation.

The trade AI is damn tough to exploit. I've made 2 trades that I thought were definately in my favor. Using Memphis, I pried Eddie Curry and a big contract away from the Bulls in exchange for some expiring contracts. Curry was on the trading block and demanding a trade at the time, so I'm sure the Bulls were happy to dump him and and clear cap space. I was using Philly in the other trade and I sent Andre Iguodala (3 current and 3.5 potential) and a 2nd to Atlanta for Josh Childress (my scouts rated him at 3 current and 4 potential). However, in both cases the players I traded for failed to develop to their full potential and I ended up in a cap mess because of it.

Players that demand a trade and end up on the block can be had for under their value, but the AI still won't give them away. Teams also will not take really bad contracts off your hands. No matter what else you offer to entice them.

To make things short. AI certainly isn't a reason to shy away from this game.

[Danny]

I'm still involved, but maybe not quite as biased as Gary .

The FA AI and draft AI are both very good. The computer controlled teams do a nice job of evaluating their need positions and balancing whether to take the best player available or a need position. I have seen a GM with a young stud PG, take another PG early in the 1st round because they were easily the best player. They shifted the new draft pick over to shooting guard and the two players formed a great combo.

As for free agency, it is very realistic. Players will generally go for the most money possible, but sometimes will opt to sign on with someone who has a better shot at winning. Player ammounts are very realisitc. Ai teams will sometimes overplay solid players to keep them around like they do in the NBA. Most players resign with their current team as in most cases, they can offer the most amount of money.

[John Galt]

Thanks. Skydog, if you are around, I'd love to hear your opinions on the offseason stuff.

One problem that I've seen is in a 10 team fictional league with a fantasy draft, there is WAY too much talent available. I don't know if this carries over to other smaller sizes. After the draft is over, you can pick up all sorts of quality players (4 basketball potential or three and half current). My whole starting lineup is rated 4 plus basketballs (and we are getting killed early in the season) and I saw players with 4 basketballs in the late rounds (albeit with ugly contracts).

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by The_herd

The trade AI is damn tough to exploit. I've made 2 trades that I thought were definately in my favor. Using Memphis, I pried Eddie Curry and a big contract away from the Bulls in exchange for some expiring contracts. Curry was on the trading block and demanding a trade at the time, so I'm sure the Bulls were happy to dump him and and clear cap space. I was using Philly in the other trade and I sent Andre Iguodala (3 current and 3.5 potential) and a 2nd to Atlanta for Josh Childress (my scouts rated him at 3 current and 4 potential). However, in both cases the players I traded for failed to develop to their full potential and I ended up in a cap mess because of it.

Not trying to be mean or anything but I have to admit reading this did make me smile because its exactly the experience I was going for with the game. One minute you think you're on top of the world with a great trade or draft pick only to have reality come crashing down on you leaving you with players who didn't pan out exactly as you expected and a cap mess to dig out of to boot!

Again, no offense but a major goal was to bring forth a sim where you didn't know you that the guy you just traded for or drafted guarantees you a championship 2-3 years down the line. Who knows, maybe another time Childress and Curry would have developed and you would have had a great team on your hands. I'm extremely pleased to see it working the way it was meant to.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Not trying to be mean or anything but I have to admit reading this did make me smile because its exactly the experience I was going for with the game. One minute you think you're on top of the world with a great trade or draft pick only to have reality come crashing down on you leaving you with players who didn't pan out exactly as you expected and a cap mess to dig out of to boot!

Again, no offense but a major goal was to bring forth a sim where you didn't know you that the guy you just traded for or drafted guarantees you a championship 2-3 years down the line. Who knows, maybe another time Childress and Curry would have developed and you would have had a great team on your hands. I'm extremely pleased to see it working the way it was meant to.

Maybe I'm being unclear. It seems to me that the amount of high level talent is the same in a 30 team as in a 10 team league. Maybe I'm wrong or my scouting is too generous, but almost every starter in the league is a 4 basketball or higher player. In a 30 team league, I remember having much lower quality starters. Maybe my impression is wrong, but I'm worried the talent pool isn't shrunk enough in smaller leagues.

[Danny]

I don't think you were being unclear, I think you accidently didn't realize Gary quoted The Herd's post

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Danny Drickman

I don't think you were being unclear, I think you accidently didn't realize Gary quoted The Herd's post

Oops.

[John Galt]

One other thing I'd like to see. It would be great if trades would allow the computer to exceed 15 players and account for which players it would have cut. It is easy for the user to do that, but once the season starts (and every team has 15 players), trades become very hard to do.

[Ben E Lou]

JG:

I can't really speak to trade or FA AI yet. Look back at my post about my career. I was in no position to make any significant trades or sign any FA's.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

JG:

I can't really speak to trade or FA AI yet. Look back at my post about my career. I was in no position to make any significant trades or sign any FA's.

Damn you Dark Jedi!!!!

[Gary Gorski]

JG - just FYI someone posted here about the administrator thing for TPB 05

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/for...ad.php?t=31567

I'll take a look - my guess is its with the elicense since there was no elicense on the demo and it didnt ask you on the demo install to be the admin

[Danny]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Maybe I'm being unclear. It seems to me that the amount of high level talent is the same in a 30 team as in a 10 team league. Maybe I'm wrong or my scouting is too generous, but almost every starter in the league is a 4 basketball or higher player. In a 30 team league, I remember having much lower quality starters. Maybe my impression is wrong, but I'm worried the talent pool isn't shrunk enough in smaller leagues.

I can probably give you a solid answer John. It appears there is more talent because there is. If the pro league only had 10 teams, would there suddenly be less guys of major talent? I dont think so. It does become a league of superstars, but so would the NBA if they dropped down to 10 teams.

Now, I completely understand where you're coming from and I guess it's more of a personal taste thing. Ideally, the game would have the option of creating a league based upon a pro league level of talent or creating a league to get even more of a fictional feel by applying the talent level based on the number of teams in the league.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Ok, Can I start a real Fictional league with selectable cities? How is stat tracking ?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Danny Drickman

I can probably give you a solid answer John. It appears there is more talent because there is. If the pro league only had 10 teams, would there suddenly be less guys of major talent? I dont think so. It does become a league of superstars, but so would the NBA if they dropped down to 10 teams.

Now, I completely understand where you're coming from and I guess it's more of a personal taste thing. Ideally, the game would have the option of creating a league based upon a pro league level of talent or creating a league to get even more of a fictional feel by applying the talent level based on the number of teams in the league.

Ugh. First bad design decision revealed.

How many teams are in the NBA? Guess I need to restart so that the talent matches up with the teams.

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

Ok, Can I start a real Fictional league with selectable cities? How is stat tracking ?

Pretty good from what I've seen and this is my exact setup. I'm only about 15 or so games into the season but there are lots of stats tracked and each player even has a game by game record for the current season.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Originally Posted by FBPro

Pretty good from what I've seen and this is my exact setup. I'm only about 15 or so games into the season but there are lots of stats tracked and each player even has a game by game record for the current season.

That's all Im really after is stat tracking plus the added create a league feature.
pLAYED THE HELL OUT OF stb 2 years back and now am looking to upgrade.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Dola: But first I need to Rush through Ratchet & Clank then I'll be all hooped up.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Ugh. First bad design decision revealed.

How many teams are in the NBA? Guess I need to restart so that the talent matches up with the teams.

Feelings on this go both ways Ben - some think it should be like Danny pointed out - a league of great players (which it would be if the NBA was only ten teams - when you expand the leagues to the sizes they are now and in the NBA's case that is 30 the talent gets diluted) and some think it should be normalized for the number of teams.

I can look at allowing a choice in a patch though.

[jbmagic]

gary

can you also please add an option for IR to 5 games like the nba?

the IR for 5 days you can keep as an option too for people that like it that way too..


then we can have a choice of either 5 days or 5 games on IR or none at all



thanks

[Galaril]

Gary,
Just checking is the patch imminent?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Ugh. First bad design decision revealed.

How many teams are in the NBA? Guess I need to restart so that the talent matches up with the teams.

Only for you non-default league structure people. j/k

30 teams, I believe. I just used all defaults.


Todd

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well, it's not quite a record for me, but it's way above average in the past couple of years -- Played the demo for about 2 hours and then made the purchase.

And that's in spite of a couple of early errors. Those were stuff that was already announced for the first patch, and stuff that was easy to avoid without compromising game play in the least. Combined with the amount of support I've seen from the developer both at their forum & here ... hell, buying this became a no-brainer.

Nice job Gary & Co.

[Gary Gorski]

Thanks JIMGA - for those wondering about the patch it should be available within the next 1-2 hours I would think. It was tested earlier today and I needed to clean up one additional bug so it will be on its way to the server soon. I will post the list of fixes as well

[Gary Gorski]

For anyone interested, a patch is scheduled to be released tonight. It will cover the following things.

Patch 1.1 is due out tonight. Here are the fixes it makes.

- Fixed RTE 9 when attempting to access players at end of depth chart
- Fixed RTE 381 when game would crash during 2D gameplay
- Fixed bug that allowed players to play games in the D-League while injured
- Fixed bug that left players on IR in depth chart
- Fixed bug causing the CPU to not sub out a fouled out player
- Fixed bug causing conference name not to display after viewing playoff bracket
- Fixed bug preventing GMs from signing with a new team in PureGM mode
- Allowed users to drop icon for subs in the box itself rather than just on the name
- Added display of bench stats on the main game screen
- Reduced number of technical fouls on coaches

Its not out yet - when it is I will let you know and maybe Ben can sticky a post about it for a day or so. BTW, I want to thank everyone for the support on the forum here. This has been a very impressive thread and I'm flattered by the compliments and overwhelming support by the community. Thank you all very much for checking out the demo and commenting on it - and for those of you yet to check out the demo - what the heck are you waitin on?