NFL Draft thread 2012

[Racer]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Blackmon will probably be right around 4.5. He certainly wont be even close the fastest WR in the draft. The thing that is kind of concerning about him is that he plays like a big WR but by NFL standards isnt really a big WR(height wise). He plays a physical style and uses his strength many times to get open. I think he has more of the potential to be a top level #2 guy rather than being a teams go to WR.

Justin Blackmon Scouting Report « PRO Prospects

Not sure how accurate they are, but sportsline.com projects him around 4.54. It's the primarily site I used to make my mock draft.

Also, not sure if it will have any impact on his draft stock or not but Blackmon was arrested for DUI in October 2010.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

if you can get beat the jam you can play in the league. stevie johnson isn't fast, doesn't run great routes and has suspect hands. but he's tough to press.

blackmon should be at least as good.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Racer

During the season it was reported locally that Manning was very unhappy with how much the Polians leaked about his neck surgery recovery was going. So it's also possible Irsay fired the Polians to mend the fence with Manning.

Who's going to trade FOR Manning though? That option bonus makes him a hell of a bitter pill to swallow. No way the Colts can keep him and draft Luck, better to play chicken with them and see if they'll just not pick up the option instead and you can get him without giving anything up. And if they do keep Manning, you know they have less leverage with the #1 pick, so you can get a better deal for it.

[johnnyshaka]

Manning is going to get paid either way.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Manning is going to get paid either way.

Right - but why give up more for him then you have to?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Right - but why give up more for him then you have to?

Because getting him instantly makes you a Super Bowl contender.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Because getting him instantly makes you a Super Bowl contender.

a) that's still TBD - it will depend on how well he has actually healed
b) the window that he will make you a contender in may be very small
c) that still doesn't mean you would overpay for him. Successful teams build through the draft...they don't give away draft picks to acquire vets
d) does it really? He's only brought Indy there one time. I have a hard time believing that he'll be able to go in somehwere else brand new, with a culture/offense that isn't geared 100% to him and transform the franchise overnight (which given that he has a questionable future given the injury and his age is basically what you're asking him to do)

Note: I'm not saying the guy is chopped-liver or is worthless. I'm just saying there's no need to OVERPAY to get him. Get the best deal you can.

If you're not a believer in getting the best deal you can I have a car I'd like to sell you.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Who's going to trade FOR Manning though? That option bonus makes him a hell of a bitter pill to swallow. No way the Colts can keep him and draft Luck, better to play chicken with them and see if they'll just not pick up the option instead and you can get him without giving anything up. And if they do keep Manning, you know they have less leverage with the #1 pick, so you can get a better deal for it.

I read somewhere that teams can't even makes traded until after Manning's $28 million option is due. Unless Manning is willing to push that back, the Colts have no choice but to swallow it (unlikely if they're only trying to trade him) or cut him.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I hope Im wrong as well. The story with Blackmon and that Olivia girl is very moving. I wish he was 6 3 or 6 4 instead of 6 1.

are there official measurements being made on this like with the NBA ? I´ve seen him play like 5 times and "he play bigger" comments aside he actually looked taller when measuring him against other players, didn´t he ?

[Racer]

Dola, I think it was the in an article Bill Kravitz wrote, an Indy Star columnist and the Colts' beat writer.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Manning is going to get paid either way.

I'm seeing some rumors that he may not be ready for the start of the 2012 season.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

a) that's still TBD - it will depend on how well he has actually healed
b) the window that he will make you a contender in may be very small
c) that still doesn't mean you would overpay for him. Successful teams build through the draft...they don't give away draft picks to acquire vets
d) does it really? He's only brought Indy there one time. I have a hard time believing that he'll be able to go in somehwere else brand new, with a culture/offense that isn't geared 100% to him and transform the franchise overnight (which given that he has a questionable future given the injury and his age is basically what you're asking him to do)

All correct...that's why you are going to have to pay for the right to find out the answers to a, b, and d.

Manning won't be playing on the cheap next season, I assure you. So, you'll either deal out the draft picks and have the Colts pay his bonus or you'll be paying Manning directly with a big, fat, upfront bonus.

[spleen1015]

I think Manning playing some where else is a moot point because I think that's why the Polians are gone. They wanted to dump him or trade him and Irsay wanted to keep him. So, Irsay decided who he wanted to keep.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I think Manning playing some where else is a moot point because I think that's why the Polians are gone. They wanted to dump him or trade him and Irsay wanted to keep him. So, Irsay decided who he wanted to keep.

Locally, it's being reported that Chris Polian had become extremely unpopular within the Colts organization and that Irsay didn't trust him. The Colts couldn't really keep Bill and fire his son Chris so they fired both of them. Chris also reportedly had more responsibility at this point then Bill did. It doesn't sound as if the issue of whether or not to keep Manning had anything/much to do with the decision to keep the Polians.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by whomario

are there official measurements being made on this like with the NBA ? I´ve seen him play like 5 times and "he play bigger" comments aside he actually looked taller when measuring him against other players, didn´t he ?

He is listed at 6 1. Like you when I see him play in college he reminds of a TO type because he appears to look like a beast out there.

I mean 6 1 is a good size for a NFL WR but not the freakishly good size of a Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, or Terrell Owens type.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He is listed at 6 1. .

I know, but in Basketball kids measure taller/smaller than listed at the combine all the time. That´s what i was aiming at really, that maybe his listing from back when isn´t accurate anymore ? Do they update them year to year ?
Also, do they even measure things like wingspan ? I´d figure that would be a huge factor for Receivers, no ?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I hope Im wrong as well. The story with Blackmon and that Olivia girl is very moving. I wish he was 6 3 or 6 4 instead of 6 1.

Well, besides Lloyd nobody on this Rams team can catch.. and Blackmon catches everything.

[k0ruptr]

Greg Salas will be back, and he can catch. before he got hurt he was the best receiver on that team.

This was also before Lloyd. but I really think Salas and Lloyd could be solid


Edit: disregard any Hawai'i homerism

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

Greg Salas will be back, and he can catch. before he got hurt he was the best receiver on that team.

This was also before Lloyd. but I really think Salas and Lloyd could be solid

I would argue Amendola was the best at catching the ball before he was hurt.. but I'd like to see more of Salas next year.

[k0ruptr]

I like Amendola , its unfortunate he only got to play 1 game this season.

I think the Rams need more help elsewhere then WR, If Amendola and Salas can get healthy its a decent WR core.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by whomario

I know, but in Basketball kids measure taller/smaller than listed at the combine all the time. That´s what i was aiming at really, that maybe his listing from back when isn´t accurate anymore ? Do they update them year to year ?
Also, do they even measure things like wingspan ? I´d figure that would be a huge factor for Receivers, no ?

Official measurements at the combine I believe include wingspan.

As for college height/weight listings - take those with a huge grain of salt. They are usually fudged to make the player look better.

[DaddyTorgo]

Man - the quality of analysis by ESPN is pathetic.

Robert Griffin III, not Andrew Luck, the right pick for Indianapolis Colts - ESPN

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Man - the quality of analysis by ESPN is pathetic.

Robert Griffin III, not Andrew Luck, the right pick for Indianapolis Colts - ESPN

What do you expect from Jemele Hill?

[Grover]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

What do you expect from Jemele Hill?

+1, she's awful. I want to know what exactly everyone sees in RG3 that makes him a better pure pro prospect than Andrew Luck.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Grover

+1, she's awful. I want to know what exactly everyone sees in RG3 that makes him a better pure pro prospect than Andrew Luck.

My guess is Cam doing so well is partly fueling this.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Racer

Not sure how accurate they are, but sportsline.com projects him around 4.54. It's the primarily site I used to make my mock draft.

Also, not sure if it will have any impact on his draft stock or not but Blackmon was arrested for DUI in October 2010.

I see him, if successful, at best like Hines Ward. Top upside is more realistically Probably more like Wayne Chrebet or Keenan McCardell.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Man - the quality of analysis by ESPN is pathetic.

Robert Griffin III, not Andrew Luck, the right pick for Indianapolis Colts - ESPN

Is her argument that RGIII should be drafted over Luck seriously based on the fact that RGIII is going to take more time to develop than Luck?

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Matthean

My guess is Cam doing so well is partly fueling this.

Heh. I went and read the article and I was dead on.

Originally Posted by Atocep

Is her argument that RGIII should be drafted over Luck seriously based on the fact that RGIII is going to take more time to develop than Luck?

Have Manning play now, win now. Have RGIII play after Manning is done and win due to his higher potential. They can do the same with Luck, but people will likely want Luck starting sooner, and according to her, Luck has less potential even though he will be really good.

Indy is drafting Luck unless there comes some monster deal. I don't see it since people will just pay less to trade up to get RGIII.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Is her argument that RGIII should be drafted over Luck seriously based on the fact that RGIII is going to take more time to develop than Luck?

Yeah

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Matthean

My guess is Cam doing so well is partly fueling this.

Anyone who's judging qb's by race (which is why the Jamarcus v. Cam comps were absurd) has their own issues, IMO. Stylistically I suppose RGB is closer to Cam, but The guy had a 72% accuracy rate this year- that's Andrew luck esque.

[Julio Riddols]

I don't think I have seen someone throw deep balls as accurately as he does. Along with that, he is a smart guy and a hard worker, and far more athletically gifted than Luck. I think his ceiling is much higher than Lucks.I see Luck as a Matt Ryan type with more mobility. RGIII could be an even more athletic Aaron Rodgers.

When it all boils down, I think injuries will be the only thing that separates the two in any significant way success wise.

[Logan]

I could be way off on this, but I think people who are (comparatively) down on Luck are just too used to watching more college-style offenses and the monster numbers (and length of passes) that go with it. I'm no QB guru, but when I watch Luck's footwork, pocket presence, quickness delivering the ball, accuracy on the intermediate routes, I'm amazed at where he's at compared to other college QBs. I feel like it's these things that people are forgetting, and why he will be given the highest grade by the NFL guys since Elway, as reported.

edit: It's not to turn this into a Luck vs RGIII debate. I think he could be great as well with some more work, and I'm sure rooting for him since he seems like a great kid.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Andrew Luck will be the next Chris Weinke, because all those white quarterbacks play the same.

[Ksyrup]

No, that's Brandon Weedon.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

I could be way off on this, but I think people who are (comparatively) down on Luck are just too used to watching more college-style offenses and the monster numbers (and length of passes) that go with it. I'm no QB guru, but when I watch Luck's footwork, pocket presence, quickness delivering the ball, accuracy on the intermediate routes, I'm amazed at where he's at compared to other college QBs. I feel like it's these things that people are forgetting, and why he will be given the highest grade by the NFL guys since Elway, as reported.

edit: It's not to turn this into a Luck vs RGIII debate. I think he could be great as well with some more work, and I'm sure rooting for him since he seems like a great kid.

I would say it is more backlash than anything else. Despite not getting the ESPNs of the world 24 hrs a day, it seems like the question is not whether he will be the number one pick. The question seems to be how many All-Pro he will be awarded and who he will have doing his introduction in Canton.

I think Luck will be a great QB. I would make him the number one pick. However to hear some talk, Andrew Luck is a guaranteed Hall of Famer. Those sort of unfair expectations will lead to unfair criticisms.

[MizzouRah]

I like this draft...

NFL Mock Draft 2012: Andrew Luck, Justin Blackmon, Robert Griffin III Among Tops Projected Picks

[Matthean]

MSU's Worthy(DL) enters the draft. As a Michigan fan, all I can say is thank god.

Link

[Matthean]

Landry Jones is coming back.

Sooner QB Landry Jones returning for senior year - CBSSports.com

[JonInMiddleGA]

from the GT Athletics FB page

GT wide receiver Stephen Hill has decided to enter the 2012 NFL draft. We wish him well in his future endeavors.

[Matthean]

2012 NFL Draft early entrants - NFL - SI.com

Complete list of early entrants. I'm shaking my head at Edwin Baker of MSU going. 665 yards, 3.9 average, 5 TDs, and he was the backup. He had a big sophomore year, but this just feels like jumping too soon.

[Matthean]

In Captain Obvious news, Colts will be drafting Luck.

Report: Irsay has already decided to pick Luck | ProFootballTalk

[mckerney]

I'm really hoping Griffin stays at Baylor and the Vikings hire a competent GM who will take him with their pick next year.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I'm really hoping Griffin stays at Baylor and the Vikings hire a competent GM who will take him with their pick next year.

I think that's a long shot...on both counts.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I hope Griffin comes out and the Browns get him. I like the Browns. I want them to be good.

[Lathum]

Do people really think the Vikings are going to give up on Ponder after one year? I know the new salary scale makes it easier to eat a first round mistake, but I just don't see them giving up on him after 1 season.

[johnnyshaka]

To be honest, I don't know why the Vikings don't give Joe Webb a legitimate chance to see what he can do as their starter.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

To be honest, I don't know why the Vikings don't give Joe Webb a legitimate chance to see what he can do as their starter.

Webb should get a shot and should probably come into camp as the #1 QB if nobody else is added, but Webb wasn't a second round prospect the front office and coaching staff have to try to justify picking 12th overall.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Do people really think the Vikings are going to give up on Ponder after one year? I know the new salary scale makes it easier to eat a first round mistake, but I just don't see them giving up on him after 1 season.

I don't think they will give up on Ponder, but if they have the chance to get a potential franchise QB they absolutely should.

[Doug5984]

I never understood throwing a rookie QB onto the field, and then giving up on him so quick. I mean he's a rookie, what do they expect him to do? Go put up elite #s? Give the kid some time. (There are a few exceptions, but they are exceptions)

Edit to expand on this:
If you look at the top QBs in the league, I'm going to go by rating to just get the top 10 guys.

Rodgers - sat 3 years
Brees - sat 1 year, then 2 years of "bad" numbers
Brady - sat 1 year, thrown in 2nd year, good QB rating (first 3 years in the 80s) but didn't throw a whole lot of yards
Romo - sat 3-1/2 years
Stafford - # 1 overall pick, thrown right in, horrible QB rating (61) (injured first 2 years so he did sit a lot also)
Schaub - sat 3 years
Eli - # 1 overall pick, sat 1/2 the year- then really wasn't that great for a few seasons (lower completion %, higher INTs)
Ryan - thrown right in, and has done alright really

Not on that list-
Cam Newton - thrown right in, looked really good actually for being a rookie
Peyton Manning - thrown right in, had a bad first year but they stuck with him and gave him a shot.


So from my pretty much unscientific research shows that- the top QBs were all given some time to develop. A couple were thrown in and had success but I can think of more that were thrown in and did not. Now that's not to say that if you give every QB time they'll develop into a top QB, but it seems to work out better for them.... and just let them play for than a couple seasons before cutting them. Hell look at Alex Smith, he was a "bust" but they stuck with him and while he isn't a great QB you want from the # 1 pick, he's turned into an ok starter... a game manager of sorts, but he's doing better than a lot of other high picks.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I don't think they will give up on Ponder, but if they have the chance to get a potential franchise QB they absolutely should.

How are they not giving up on Ponder if they draft another QB? Didn't they draft him 12th thinking they had a chance to get a potential franchise QB? If they draft another one a year later, aren't they at least giving up on the idea that he is that?