So... The Big 12 - Page 3

tarcone · 11-23-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

And your point?

I guess its that the best team in a bad conference, won the conference. While the best team in another bad conference didnt. USC has no claim to play in the national championship game. The would get crushed by Florida, OU or Texas. Maybe even Alabama.

I wish we had a playoff system. Of course the Univ. presidents dont want to add games because it could harm them student-athletes. Wait, they just added a game. And, oh yeah, most of the bowl games happen over winter break when most universitys are off school for a month.

cartman · 11-23-2008, 07:39 PM

and this week's BCS Poll is out. Just as I expected it to look. .009 separate Texas and Oklahoma.

Code:

Rk	Team		W-L	Harris			Coaches			CPU %	LW BCS	Score	
1	Alabama		11-0	1	2839	.9961	1	1518	.9954	.9700	1	.987
2	Texas		10-1	4	2577	.9042	4	1370	.8984	.9600	3	.921
3	Oklahoma	10-1	3	2598	.9116	2	1412	.9259	.9000	5	.912
4	Florida		10-1	2	2644	.9277	3	1401	.9187	.7800	4	.875
5	USC		9-1	5	2387	.8375	5	1288	.8446	.7100	6	.797
6	Utah		12-0	8	2113	.7414	7	1153	.7561	.8600	7	.786
7	Texas Tech	10-1	7	2118	.7432	8	1073	.7036	.8900	2	.779
8	Penn State	11-1	6	2187	.7674	6	1157	.7587	.7300	8	.752
9	Boise State	11-0	9	1901	.6670	9	1033	.6774	.6300	9	.658
10	Ohio State	10-2	10	1827	.6411	10	994	.6518	.5700	10	.621
11	Georgia		9-2	13	1607	.5639	13	842	.5521	.6900	11	.602
12	Oklahoma State	9-2	12	1621	.5688	12	858	.5626	.5800	12	.570
13	Missouri	9-2	11	1622	.5691	11	896	.5875	.5200	13	.559
14	TCU		10-2	15	1268	.4449	14	695	.4557	.5100	16	.470
15	Ball State	11-0	14	1346	.4723	15	673	.4413	.4000	17	.438
16	Cincinnati	9-2	16	1101	.3863	16	572	.3751	.4300	19	.397
17	Oregon State	8-3	17	976	.3425	17	544	.3567	.2400	21	.313
18	Brigham Young	10-2	18	761	.2670	19	321	.2105	.3100	14	.263
19	Michigan State	9-3	21	517	.1814	21	296	.1941	.2600	15	.212
20	Florida State	8-3	23	401	.1407	24	204	.1338	.2900	0	.188
21	Boston College	8-3	20	537	.1884	22	290	.1902	.1800	0	.186
22	Georgia Tech	8-3	22	415	.1456	23	241	.1580	.2400	0	.181
23	Oregon		8-3	19	584	.2049	18	397	.2603	.0000	24	.155
24	Northwestern	9-3	24	330	.1158	20	310	.2033	.0200	0	.113
25	Pittsburgh	7-3	25	130	.0456	26	43	.0282	.0500	20	.041

Crim · 11-23-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Quote:

As far as two years ago, I never thought about a UM.OSU rematch because I knew it wouldn't happen. Teams who lose that late in the year generally don't get a shot, especially when other teams had conference title games after them.

That doesn't exactly say you were arguing UM shouldn't be in the title game if they lost to OSU there, does it?

Chief, he's not the one saying a non-conference winner should not ever be in the championship game. He was pretty specific. I wonder if you're copy-pasting my assertions onto his posts in your mind.

Crim · 11-23-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

I think this year is the perfect example of why there should be a fargin playoff to help sort this shite out!

I agree.

st.cronin · 11-23-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

USC has no claim to play in the national championship game. The would get crushed by Florida, OU or Texas. Maybe even Alabama.

Surely they have as much claim as Texas (if Texas gets left out of the Big XII championship game). USC's non-conference schedule is miles and miles better than Texas'.

I agree in general that teams which don't win their conference have no claim to the championship game - but I think if USC beats UCLA they will technically be co-champions. That is, at least, how the Big 10 does it - I am not sure the Pac 10 does things the same way.

Dr. Sak · 11-23-2008, 07:54 PM

Yeah they are Co-Champs but Oregon State wins the Rose Bowl bid.

Crim · 11-23-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade6119

What makes USC the best team in the Pac10? Public perception? OSU and USC played, OSU won...not sure i see where USC is still the better team in that logic.

8-28-08 at Stanford (Thur.) LOST 28-36
9-6-08 at Penn State LOST 14-45
9-13-08 HAWAI'I WON 45-7
9-25-08 SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (Thur.) WON 27-21
10-2-08 at Utah (Thur.) LOST 28-31
10-11-08 WASHINGTON STATE WON 66-13
10-18-08 at Washington WON 34-13
11-1-08 ARIZONA STATE WON 27-25
11-8-08 at UCLA WON 34-6
11-15-08 CALIFORNIA WON 34-21
11-22-08 at Arizona WON 19-17

Three losses, and two squeakers over AZ and AZ State. I believe that sums up the argument, from a body-of-work standpoint.

Crim · 11-23-2008, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Can we retitle this thread to "So...what do the homers have to say?"

LOL... isn't that what all of our College Football thread devolve into?

Crim · 11-23-2008, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I couldn't agree with you more. What I think would be funny is this...

USC and Oregon State win out. The Beavers win the Pac 10.
Whoever wins the Big 12 South loses to Missouri.

So that puts the winner of the Florida-Alabama game in the title game, but who would get the other?

To throw an even bigger wrench it it all...Say Florida loses to FSU but beats Alabama. There would be some fun at the top of the BCS and that MIGHT get Utah their shot at the title game.

heh yeah maybe. You might still need USC to lose to UCLA, though. Cuz Penn State would fall back into the title picture at this point, and a one loss USC would be a lock to join them.

Crim · 11-23-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

and this week's BCS Poll is out. Just as I expected it to look. .009 separate Texas and Oklahoma.

Code:

Rk	Team		W-L	Harris			Coaches			CPU %	LW BCS	Score	
1	Alabama		11-0	1	2839	.9961	1	1518	.9954	.9700	1	.987
2	Texas		10-1	4	2577	.9042	4	1370	.8984	.9600	3	.921
3	Oklahoma	10-1	3	2598	.9116	2	1412	.9259	.9000	5	.912
4	Florida		10-1	2	2644	.9277	3	1401	.9187	.7800	4	.875
5	USC		9-1	5	2387	.8375	5	1288	.8446	.7100	6	.797
6	Utah		12-0	8	2113	.7414	7	1153	.7561	.8600	7	.786
7	Texas Tech	10-1	7	2118	.7432	8	1073	.7036	.8900	2	.779
8	Penn State	11-1	6	2187	.7674	6	1157	.7587	.7300	8	.752
9	Boise State	11-0	9	1901	.6670	9	1033	.6774	.6300	9	.658
10	Ohio State	10-2	10	1827	.6411	10	994	.6518	.5700	10	.621
11	Georgia		9-2	13	1607	.5639	13	842	.5521	.6900	11	.602
12	Oklahoma State	9-2	12	1621	.5688	12	858	.5626	.5800	12	.570
13	Missouri	9-2	11	1622	.5691	11	896	.5875	.5200	13	.559
14	TCU		10-2	15	1268	.4449	14	695	.4557	.5100	16	.470
15	Ball State	11-0	14	1346	.4723	15	673	.4413	.4000	17	.438
16	Cincinnati	9-2	16	1101	.3863	16	572	.3751	.4300	19	.397
17	Oregon State	8-3	17	976	.3425	17	544	.3567	.2400	21	.313
18	Brigham Young	10-2	18	761	.2670	19	321	.2105	.3100	14	.263
19	Michigan State	9-3	21	517	.1814	21	296	.1941	.2600	15	.212
20	Florida State	8-3	23	401	.1407	24	204	.1338	.2900	0	.188
21	Boston College	8-3	20	537	.1884	22	290	.1902	.1800	0	.186
22	Georgia Tech	8-3	22	415	.1456	23	241	.1580	.2400	0	.181
23	Oregon		8-3	19	584	.2049	18	397	.2603	.0000	24	.155
24	Northwestern	9-3	24	330	.1158	20	310	.2033	.0200	0	.113
25	Pittsburgh	7-3	25	130	.0456	26	43	.0282	.0500	20	.041

Okay, tell me if I'm wrong, but Texas basically has no shot if OU beats Okie State, right? Because the strength of schedule would then push the Sooners ahead? And, If OU loses at Stillwater, Texas has no shot because of head to head vs Tech?

So.. UT = teh fucked.

cartman · 11-23-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crim

Okay, tell me if I'm wrong, but Texas basically has no shot if OU beats Okie State, right? Because the strength of schedule would then push the Sooners ahead? And, If OU loses at Stillwater, Texas has no shot because of head to head vs Tech?

So.. UT = teh fucked.

If OU beats OSU, and all of the other top teams win, then there will be little change to the computer rankings. OU is currently .06 behind Texas in the computer polls, and has been for the past few weeks. They only moved up .02 with their big win over Tech. So a win over OSU would likely gain them at most .01, which if the voters vote exactly the same as last week, would give OU the edge by .001 point. That's why I stated earlier that the style points to the human voters are going to be key next weekend. I can easily see where the opponents records and opponents of opponents records components of the computers possibly be the deciding factor of who advances in the event of a 3-way Big 12 South tie.

If OU loses to OSU, that would solidify Texas as the #2 in the BCS, so they would likely go to the BCS championship game, without playing for the Big 12 Championship. There's almost no way that Tech could jump back up that high to get the #2 spot if they beat Mizzou in that scenario.

Crim · 11-23-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

If OU loses to OSU, that would solidify Texas as the #2 in the BCS, so they would likely go to the BCS championship game, without playing for the Big 12 Championship. There's almost no way that Tech could jump back up that high to get the #2 spot if they beat Mizzou in that scenario.

Oh, right, I was neglecting that somehow. I guess I was stuck in my "don't-win-conference-then-you-can't-play-for-title" reverie...

Crim · 11-23-2008, 08:28 PM

Dola, anyone notice that, let's say it's always the B12 that is involved in this conference loser to the title game talk? Nebraska, OU, and now it could be either OU or Texas this year, concievably.

Wonder if that means anything? I mean, is there something inherently unique about the Big 12 or the way they derive their champions? Or does this just speak more to their perennial depth?

MizzouRah · 11-23-2008, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crim

Me too. Shit, on special teams play alone, I'd give Florida a 14 point edge. Both teams are explosive offensively, but I'd wager that Florida has four guys faster than anyone on OU's roster.

Defensively, it's almost a wash. Florida with more lateral speed on the front seven, but OU with superior DBs.

I sincerely hope this is the natl title game.

I think you're wrong, but I'm with you.. I would love to see this play out. Texas Tech has plenty of speed, but it didn't help them.

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crim

Chief, he's not the one saying a non-conference winner should not ever be in the championship game. He was pretty specific. I wonder if you're copy-pasting my assertions onto his posts in your mind.

Whoops. Ignore my response here and see Post #117.

Vegas Vic · 11-23-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crim

Dola, anyone notice that, let's say it's always the B12 that is involved in this conference loser to the title game talk? Nebraska, OU, and now it could be either OU or Texas this year, concievably.

As I mentioned in a previous thread, the two previous times this happened, Nebraska and Oklahoma lost their last game before playing in the National Championship.

This time, you could have an OU team that is on a seven game winning streak (including beating the #2 ranked team 65-14) who tied for their divisional title with a 7-1 record, but didn't go to their conference championship game because of several thousandths of a point in the BCS rankings, which would then presumably have them in the top two if Texas went to the Big XII championship game and lost.

I think this is a completely different situation than coming in second in your own division (Nebraska 2001) or losing the conference championship (OU 2003).

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 09:09 PM

You know what, Crim is right. I just re-read DeTox's original statement. Amazing what glazing over one word can do to the entire meaning of the statement.

My apologies to DeTox for misrepresenting what he wrote. It was not intentional.

sooner333 · 11-23-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crim

I realize I am already on record with respect to this subject, but yes, I personally believe that, in this current format of determining a championship based on math and polls, a team which doesn't win its conference should be ineligible to play for the national title.

I disagree because it takes away the possibility of two teams from the same conference playing when they are the two best teams (which may on its face seem okay to you, but what if Northwestern and Penn State went unbeaten and didn't play eachother. One team would be "the champion" in the eyes of the Big Ten via tiebreaks, the other team would not).

I also think with the various ways that conferences schedule and determine their champion, that it can be somewhat unfair to a team like Oklahoma, Texas, or Texas Tech who were in the top two at various points in the season, only lost to eachother (up to now) and there will be a tiebreak required for them to even play for the conference championship. The same can be said for USC too, as they will not win the Pac 10 with an Oregon State win, but are the more deserving team as they won their non-conference schedule (Oregon State was 1-2 in non-conference action) and otherwise have been fairly dominant on defense.

Crim · 11-23-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

As I mentioned in a previous thread, the two previous times this happened, Nebraska and Oklahoma lost their last game before playing in the National Championship.

This time, you could have an OU team that is on a seven game winning streak (including beating the #2 ranked team 65-14) who tied for their divisional title with a 7-1 record, but didn't go to their conference championship game because of several thousandths of a point in the BCS rankings, which would then presumably have them in the top two if Texas went to the Big XII championship game and lost.

I think this is a completely different situation than coming in second in your own division (Nebraska 2001) or losing the conference championship (OU 2003).

VV I see your point. But all it does really is reaffirm for me how f'd up our system is for determining a championship in this sport.

I do get the distinction between this year's potential 2nd-place in division goes to title game, versus the last two times. It's a great point, actually, Vic.

But can you see where, let's say Mizzou beats Oklahoma in the B12 championship game, Texas is actually rewarded for not winning its division? They'd then get to bypass the minefield of a conference championship game, and scoot on over to play for the Bowl Championship Series National Championship Game?

Something's gotta feel wrong about that, no matter which side of the debate you're on, no?

I totally get that in this scenario Texas would emerge the most deserving candidate. I'm just pissed that this is the system, and it's still so obviously horseshit, and it's not likely to change anytime soon.

sooner333 · 11-23-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

If OU beats OSU, and all of the other top teams win, then there will be little change to the computer rankings. OU is currently .06 behind Texas in the computer polls, and has been for the past few weeks. They only moved up .02 with their big win over Tech. So a win over OSU would likely gain them at most .01, which if the voters vote exactly the same as last week, would give OU the edge by .001 point. That's why I stated earlier that the style points to the human voters are going to be key next weekend. I can easily see where the opponents records and opponents of opponents records components of the computers possibly be the deciding factor of who advances in the event of a 3-way Big 12 South tie.

If OU loses to OSU, that would solidify Texas as the #2 in the BCS, so they would likely go to the BCS championship game, without playing for the Big 12 Championship. There's almost no way that Tech could jump back up that high to get the #2 spot if they beat Mizzou in that scenario.

Just going poll-by-poll with OU, Tech, and Texas winning:

Billingsley will stay the same, OU has the lead over Texas and plays the toughest team so OU will stay ahead of Texas. Probably will be tough to catch Alabama, but I don't know how Billingsley handles road/home. Texas could very easily get passed by USC because they are so close and Notre Dame is higher ranked than Texas A&M. Florida is a couple points behind, but could pass Texas as Florida State is quite a bit better of an opponent.

Sagarin, OU is 4 and Texas is 1. Texas has 93.53, Texas Tech 92.59, Alabama is at 92.38, OU is at 92.32, Utah is at 90.45, and Oklahoma State is sixth with 87.07. Oklahoma State being sixth really helps Oklahoma. They will probably pass Alabama (even if they beat #78 Auburn) and Texas Tech (beating #76 Baylor). I'm not sure if they can pass Texas, but Oklahoma will obviously not be caught from behind by idle Utah and the team they beat.

Colley is not updated

Massey is not updated

Wolfe Alabama is at 10.173, Texas is at 10.128, Texas Tech is at 9.889, OU is at 9.888, Utah is at 9.714, Penn State at 9.253. OU passes Tech this week because it's so close at OU is playing the #10 team and Texas Tech is playing the #79 team. Alabama is playing the better team in Auburn than Texas is in A&M (#72 vs. #85). I don't think OU will catch the top two, but will move up a spot. Utah is idle and Penn State is way back and also idle.

In the Anderson-Hester rankings, Alabama (.819), Utah (.805), Texas (.803), OU (.786), Texas Tech (.785), Florida (.783), and Penn State (.765) are at the top. Here, I think OU will keep their spot since of those teams they play the highest ranked team (OSU is at 14). Florida will probably pass Tech too playing the 19th ranked team. OU probably can't catch Texas and Texas could pass Utah (I have no idea if they will get rewarded for the win enough or hurt by playing the 78th best team). Alabama looks harmless with a win right now up atop.

So, looking at the four polls with data, OU can move up in three of them and stays the same in the other, Texas can actually fall in one of them (although it's their lowest, so it would likely be thrown out) and can only rise in one of them.

Again, this assumes that favorites win, which is always essentially false. But, I think OU has more to gain than you think in the computers.

Crim · 11-23-2008, 09:53 PM

I heart cartman and sooner333 in these threads.

st.cronin · 11-23-2008, 10:04 PM

I actually think there's a decent chance OU loses. I think there is no chance Texas or Tech loses next week. I think Tech still has a pretty good shot at the Championship game.

Hammer755 · 11-23-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

If OU loses to OSU, that would solidify Texas as the #2 in the BCS, so they would likely go to the BCS championship game, without playing for the Big 12 Championship. There's almost no way that Tech could jump back up that high to get the #2 spot if they beat Mizzou in that scenario.

I disagree with this. If OU loses to OSU and Tech wins the B12 title, I would fully expect the voters to move Tech over UT in the final poll. The exact same thing happened to Georgia last year.

Before the conference championship games, Georgia was ranked #4. #1 WVU & #2 Missouri both lost, setting the stage for Georgia to jump up to #2 behind Ohio St. But Georgia was punished for not winning their division and got leapfrogged by conference champions LSU and Oklahoma. I would envision a similar scenario playing out for Texas if they don't win the B12 South.

cartman · 11-23-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sooner333

Again, this assumes that favorites win, which is always essentially false. But, I think OU has more to gain than you think in the computers.

I don't disagree with any of that. But I think that OU had their biggest move this past week. Once you get closer to the top, there is a lot less room to move up. I think Sagarin the one poll most likely to benefit Oklahoma. The rest have Alabama, Texas and Oklahoma in some combination of 1, 2 , or 3, and if all win, I think remain the same.

That being said, I do agree that the assumption that all of the favored top teams will win is not a lock. A loss by any of the top teams will throw a huge wrench into the recalculations. The interesting scenario would be Texas Tech losing to Baylor. Texas could go to the Big 12 title game, but the computers might very well put OU in the BCS title game.

Texas and Oklahoma both have intense rivalry games to finish out the season, and history has shown that OSU and A&M usually don't make things easy for their rivals.

cartman · 11-23-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer755

Before the conference championship games, Georgia was ranked #4. #1 WVU & #2 Missouri both lost, setting the stage for Georgia to jump up to #2 behind Ohio St. But Georgia was punished for not winning their division and got leapfrogged by conference champions LSU and Oklahoma. I would envision a similar scenario playing out for Texas if they don't win the B12 South.

As others have said before, this year is different. I'd like to think that the voters wouldn't punish whichever Big 12 South team loses the BCS tiebreaker if it comes to that. The loser(s) of the tiebreaker would still be considered co-division winners.

st.cronin · 11-23-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

The loser(s) of the tiebreaker would still be considered co-division winners.

But NOT conference champions in any way, shape or form.

cartman · 11-23-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

But NOT conference champions in any way, shape or form.

Yes, but Hammer's example of Georgia was that they didn't win their division.

sooner333 · 11-23-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

The rest have Alabama, Texas and Oklahoma in some combination of 1, 2 , or 3, and if all win, I think remain the same.

The Wolfe ratings have OU at #4 and OU will make up the .001 between them and Texas Tech this week with a win over OSU. That's more of a lock than the Sagarin.

Hammer755 · 11-23-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

Yes, but Hammer's example of Georgia was that they didn't win their division.

Spin it how you will, but if you don't play in the conference title game, you're not division champions. Georgia finished with the same record as Tennessee last year.

Edit - If Tech goes to the B12 title game, it will be because of their head-to-head matchup against Texas, so UT will not be a division winner anymore than Georgia was. So it turns out to be an even more relevant example.

cartman · 11-23-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sooner333

The Wolfe ratings have OU at #4 and OU will make up the .001 between them and Texas Tech this week with a win over OSU. That's more of a lock than the Sagarin.

Since the high and low are thrown out, this is where I got my .001 gain in the thread above.

st.cronin · 11-23-2008, 10:27 PM

If it were up to me the Championship game would be Utah vs. Boise State.

digamma · 11-23-2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crim

But can you see where, let's say Mizzou beats Oklahoma in the B12 championship game, Texas is actually rewarded for not winning its division? They'd then get to bypass the minefield of a conference championship game, and scoot on over to play for the Bowl Championship Series National Championship Game?

Assuming all three big 12 south leaders win next week, then I'm not sure it's fair to say that the other two didn't win their division. They tied for it and the represenative from the South is being chosen by the 5th tie-breaker.

Vegas Vic · 11-23-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma

Assuming all three big 12 south leaders win next week, then I'm not sure it's fair to say that the other two didn't win their division. They tied for it and the represenative from the South is being chosen by the 5th tie-breaker.

Yes, that's a good point, and that tie-breaker is the same BCS rating system that would presumably put the co-champion that gets left out (if it's Texas or OU) into the top two if Missouri wins the Big XII championship. That's what is so unique about the situation this year when compared to 2001 and 2003.

kcchief19 · 11-23-2008, 11:13 PM

As a well known opponent of the BCS system, I'm holding out hope for some great scenarios. My two favorites:

1. Florida or Alabama lose next week, then then the loser wins the SEC title, eliminating both
Texas and OU win out
Texas and OU rematch in the title game

2. Florida or Alabama lose next week, then then the loser wins the SEC title, eliminating both
Texas and OU win out and the South winner loses to Missouri
USC wins out
Title game is Texas-USC, a battle of two teams that didn't win their conference

Frankly, I'd be even happier with the unlikeliest scenario because it would actually help get a playoff more than anything: It is possible (not likely) that the top 5 in the BCS right now all lose. That would likely move Utah into a title spot. Who would they play? Right now, Tech is the highest ranked team in the computers and the BCS. Or do the voters move Penn State up hoping that will help? Do the voters split among the top 6 or 7 teams making the polls irrelevant and the computers decide? Maybe the computers pick one or even two teams that lost their conference title games for the national title game.

sooner333 · 11-23-2008, 11:49 PM

It would be really hard for the top 5 to lose. It could happen, but the Big 12 would be the hardest because if Oklahoma loses to Oklahoma State, then Texas would have to lose to Texas A&M (since Texas Tech would represent the South the next week). If Texas Tech lost to Baylor, then Oklahoma would have to lose to Oklahoma State (since Texas would represent the South). So basically two of the teams have to lose this week to have both Texas and Oklahoma unbeaten (and in one them, Texas Tech loses as well).

RedKingGold · 11-24-2008, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If it were up to me the Championship game would be Utah vs. Boise State.

....and only you would be watching it.

Blade6119 · 11-24-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crim

8-28-08 at Stanford (Thur.) LOST 28-36
9-6-08 at Penn State LOST 14-45
9-13-08 HAWAI'I WON 45-7
9-25-08 SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA (Thur.) WON 27-21
10-2-08 at Utah (Thur.) LOST 28-31
10-11-08 WASHINGTON STATE WON 66-13
10-18-08 at Washington WON 34-13
11-1-08 ARIZONA STATE WON 27-25
11-8-08 at UCLA WON 34-6
11-15-08 CALIFORNIA WON 34-21
11-22-08 at Arizona WON 19-17

Three losses, and two squeakers over AZ and AZ State. I believe that sums up the argument, from a body-of-work standpoint.

Look at the losses, as two of them are top 10 teams. If you believe like me, that the best team in the Pac 10 range likely falls in the 15-20 range nationally, then that fits. USC struggled just as much with Arizona, as had troubles with a Cal team OSU blew out. We can do this all day, but at the end of it OSU still beat USC and USC has done nothing(granted, they havent had a chance) else noteworthy to overcome that fact. The only selling point would be defeating Ohio State, but i dont think highly of them, and they were missing their now starting QB and RB at that.

sooner333 · 11-24-2008, 09:46 AM

Looks like using the Colley's ability to plug in five games and see what happens that OU will move from 5 to 3 this week if the top 5 favorites playing win. OU will move from 5 to 2 with a Florida loss. Texas is 1 and will stay there barring a loss (which, of course, makes everything a moot point).

Vegas Vic · 11-24-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If it were up to me the Championship game would be Utah vs. Boise State.

Grossly unfair to Ball State.

sterlingice · 11-24-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

....and only you would be watching it.

I know the smiley means it's not quite serious, but, really, not true at all. It's not the Super Bowl where it pulls in masses of viewers who don't normally watch sports. And, if they don't normally watch sports, then they wouldn't know or care about the matchup. In short, people watch it because it's the national title game, not because of who is in it.

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan · 11-24-2008, 10:20 AM

If anything, this thread shows that there are going to be a lot of fan bases across the nation rooting for Mizzou in the B12 championship. The sole exception will be the fan base of the team Mizzou ends up facing.

Noop · 11-24-2008, 10:32 AM

I won't be rooting for Mizzou....

RedKingGold · 11-24-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I know the smiley means it's not quite serious, but, really, not true at all. It's not the Super Bowl where it pulls in masses of viewers who don't normally watch sports. And, if they don't normally watch sports, then they wouldn't know or care about the matchup. In short, people watch it because it's the national title game, not because of who is in it.

SI

I'm trying to understand your quote. Are you stating that people "would" watch a Utah-Boise State national championship game, or would not. I was being serious in that I doubt viewership would be great for this matchup in a championship game.

Perhaps a National Championship game could eventually become an event similar to the Super Bowl. But, it took a while for the Super Bowl to get to that level as can be seen by the trend of TV Viewship during the Super Bowl's history. In fact, the Super Bowl is likely an anomaly where the typical sports viewership trend is dependent on championship game participants.

The World Series is going to have better ratings when the Red Sox or Yankees make it. Similarly, the NBA Finals are going to have better ratings when the Lakers or Celtics are in it.

Look at bowl viewership as it currently stands. I'd bet that the lowest viewed BCS bowl this year will be whichever one Utah plays in and suggests that the national championship would face the same issue.

sterlingice · 11-24-2008, 11:01 AM

I would say that since it's an individual game sports championship, that's what gives it the most value, not who is in it. Yes, the BCS game with Utah will be the lowest rated because it's not a championship game so it needs that window dressing of a marquee name.

Also, I think a huge key distinction between your examples and the BCS national championship game is that it's a single game. A multiple game series (World Series, NBA Championship, etc) has people mentally trying to decide if they want to invest themselves in a longer series based on who is in it.

SI

sterlingice · 11-24-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

I won't be rooting for Mizzou....

Well, let's be honest. No one in their right mind ever wants to root for Mizzou

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan · 11-24-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Well, let's be honest. No one in their right mind ever wants to root for Mizzou

SI

Beaker.

sterlingice · 11-24-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Beaker.

See... a primary example

SI

MizzouRah · 11-24-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

I won't be rooting for Mizzou....

Hmm.. I never root for Florida St. so touche'

MizzouRah · 11-24-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

See... a primary example

SI

Who roots for the Jayhawks?

Noop · 11-24-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Hmm.. I never root for Florida St. so touche'

Good for you.

View Poll Results: Who is better
Texas	29	42.03%
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Oklahoma	35	50.72%
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11-23-2008, 09:09 PM	#117
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	You know what, Crim is right. I just re-read DeTox's original statement. Amazing what glazing over one word can do to the entire meaning of the statement. My apologies to DeTox for misrepresenting what he wrote. It was not intentional. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 11-23-2008 at 09:31 PM.

11-23-2008, 10:04 PM	#122
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I actually think there's a decent chance OU loses. I think there is no chance Texas or Tech loses next week. I think Tech still has a pretty good shot at the Championship game. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

11-23-2008, 10:27 PM	#131
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	If it were up to me the Championship game would be Utah vs. Boise State. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

11-24-2008, 10:32 AM	#142
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	I won't be rooting for Mizzou.... __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

11-23-2008, 07:54 PM	#106
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	Yeah they are Co-Champs but Oregon State wins the Rose Bowl bid.

11-23-2008, 11:13 PM	#134
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	As a well known opponent of the BCS system, I'm holding out hope for some great scenarios. My two favorites: 1. Florida or Alabama lose next week, then then the loser wins the SEC title, eliminating both Texas and OU win out Texas and OU rematch in the title game 2. Florida or Alabama lose next week, then then the loser wins the SEC title, eliminating both Texas and OU win out and the South winner loses to Missouri USC wins out Title game is Texas-USC, a battle of two teams that didn't win their conference Frankly, I'd be even happier with the unlikeliest scenario because it would actually help get a playoff more than anything: It is possible (not likely) that the top 5 in the BCS right now all lose. That would likely move Utah into a title spot. Who would they play? Right now, Tech is the highest ranked team in the computers and the BCS. Or do the voters move Penn State up hoping that will help? Do the voters split among the top 6 or 7 teams making the polls irrelevant and the computers decide? Maybe the computers pick one or even two teams that lost their conference title games for the national title game.

11-23-2008, 11:49 PM	#135
sooner333 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Norman, OK	It would be really hard for the top 5 to lose. It could happen, but the Big 12 would be the hardest because if Oklahoma loses to Oklahoma State, then Texas would have to lose to Texas A&M (since Texas Tech would represent the South the next week). If Texas Tech lost to Baylor, then Oklahoma would have to lose to Oklahoma State (since Texas would represent the South). So basically two of the teams have to lose this week to have both Texas and Oklahoma unbeaten (and in one them, Texas Tech loses as well).

11-24-2008, 09:46 AM	#138
sooner333 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Norman, OK	Looks like using the Colley's ability to plug in five games and see what happens that OU will move from 5 to 3 this week if the top 5 favorites playing win. OU will move from 5 to 2 with a Florida loss. Texas is 1 and will stay there barring a loss (which, of course, makes everything a moot point).

11-24-2008, 10:20 AM	#141
Mizzou B-ball fan General Manager Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO	If anything, this thread shows that there are going to be a lot of fan bases across the nation rooting for Mizzou in the B12 championship. The sole exception will be the fan base of the team Mizzou ends up facing.

11-24-2008, 11:01 AM	#144
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	I would say that since it's an individual game sports championship, that's what gives it the most value, not who is in it. Yes, the BCS game with Utah will be the lowest rated because it's not a championship game so it needs that window dressing of a marquee name. Also, I think a huge key distinction between your examples and the BCS national championship game is that it's a single game. A multiple game series (World Series, NBA Championship, etc) has people mentally trying to decide if they want to invest themselves in a longer series based on who is in it. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

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