Alright boyz, here we go! (NHL EHM Thoughts!) - Page 3

Buccaneer · 07-03-2004, 09:07 PM

I have a bad premonition about the release of OOTP7. Not only will it have an interface that is too much like CM (i.e., will require getting used to), but what will happen to the notorious, infamous SI forums when that game is released? About the interface, it appears from folks here that there is too much of CM in EHM. Not that it is a bad thing, but don't you think that it doesn't look something NHL marketing would come up with (but something FIFA would)?

sachmo71 · 07-03-2004, 09:46 PM

I think this interface would work fine for baseball, especially with all of the stats and minor leagues it has.

klayman · 07-03-2004, 09:52 PM

IMO, the interface is light years ahead of the old EHM, but then I'm a CM lover.

rexallllsc · 07-03-2004, 10:20 PM

Interface is hard to get a grasp of at first, as was the CM interface. However, the cm4 interface was awesome, IMO. I think EHM will be on that next version...

At any rate, I got the game 2 hours ago, and Im already WAY into it...Im going to do a firesale of sorts to go for Ovechkin or Crosby

The_herd · 07-03-2004, 10:21 PM

There are a few of things I liked about the old EHM interface. I really can't say which I like better yet. My CM experience was only limited to CM4 and tired of that quickly.

nfg22 · 07-03-2004, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

94 MB? Good God. I hope my computer doesn't reboot before its finished.

bah took me ten mins

Pumpy Tudors · 07-04-2004, 12:50 AM

Well, I haven't paid for the game yet (although I'm sure I will within the next few days) since it has the nice six-month tryout, but I'm enjoying the time I'm spending with it. I just got around to starting my first exhibition game. I'm playing as the Devils GM (I won't be as much of a stick-in-the-mud as Lamoriello is), and my first preseason game is against Toronto. I nearly shit a brick when, early in the first period, Bryan Marchment nicked Brian Gionta with his knee. Thankfully, Gio is all right, but Marchment didn't waste any time starting his antics this season. I already love this game.

rexallllsc · 07-04-2004, 01:35 AM

I'm the GM of the Kings...and for no reason (I think?) Brad Chartrand was called up to the team...anyone have any reason why this would happen?

Marc Vaughan · 07-04-2004, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I have a bad premonition about the release of OOTP7. Not only will it have an interface that is too much like CM (i.e., will require getting used to), but what will happen to the notorious, infamous SI forums when that game is released? About the interface, it appears from folks here that there is too much of CM in EHM. Not that it is a bad thing, but don't you think that it doesn't look something NHL marketing would come up with (but something FIFA would)?

Actually the OOTP7 interface will be entirely designed by Markus so its up to him how it looks and works, I'd expect an evolution of the OOTP6 interface myself (hopefully taking the best of the OOTP and FM interfaces?).

BreizhManu · 07-04-2004, 05:03 AM

btw what engine is OOTP going to use ? CM3 or CM4 (or a little bit of both) ?

riz · 07-04-2004, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

More info about the game crashing...just in case someone from SI will stop by. I still can't get approved for the SI boards - that shit needs to be fixed.

I've managed to duplicate the crash.

It comes right after I trade for the rights to Alexander Volkov (ATL). I offered up Ted Donato (BOS) and the trade gets accepted. I click on Volkov to negotiate a contract, set his team status (regular starter) and the game crashes to the desktop every time.

Blackadar: I believe the problem you are encountering is due to a screen bug which I located about 5 hours after the 1.0.1 patch was finished. When you get the news item about a trade being accepted, you have clicked on Volkov in that one right ? And then offered a contract ? The screen bug is that the "Offer Contract" should not appear on Volkov's profile at this point, since the trade has not been confirmed yet. The simple workaround is to click "Confirm" on the news item to finalize the trade and after that you should be able to sign Volkov as you now own his rights. Can you please verify that this matches your problem and the workaround helps ?

I'll be back on the boards later today to check it out.

condors · 07-04-2004, 06:54 AM

working on my 3rd season as the flyers

1st season i won the cup in 7 games (great stuff)

2nd season i think i have everything figured out, traded all my old guys who perfermed for me winning the cup, and finished in 10th place missing the playoffs

3rd season-is going well alot of tough personal decsions to make espically durning the wavier draft

love watching guys develop in the game i had 2 first round picks that were taken before i took over the team if they produce like roenick and primeau then i may be able to win another cup

Blackadar · 07-04-2004, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riz

Blackadar: I believe the problem you are encountering is due to a screen bug which I located about 5 hours after the 1.0.1 patch was finished. When you get the news item about a trade being accepted, you have clicked on Volkov in that one right ? And then offered a contract ? The screen bug is that the "Offer Contract" should not appear on Volkov's profile at this point, since the trade has not been confirmed yet. The simple workaround is to click "Confirm" on the news item to finalize the trade and after that you should be able to sign Volkov as you now own his rights. Can you please verify that this matches your problem and the workaround helps ?

I'll be back on the boards later today to check it out.

That's the issue, except there is no Confirm button to click on the news item. So I can't work around it.

Marc Vaughan · 07-04-2004, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BreizhManu

btw what engine is OOTP going to use ? CM3 or CM4 (or a little bit of both) ?

OOTP isn't going to be based directly upon any of SI's existing products but is going to borrow technology and ideas from all of the libraries that we've got inhouse.

It will utilise one of our inhouse GUI libraries for the front end (which means it'll definitely be available on Mac and PC, possibly also Xbox) - however this doesn't restrict the look or feel of the GUI because our libraries are skinnable and very customisable (as users of (for example) CM4 have found in the past).

Markus Heinsohn · 07-04-2004, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BreizhManu

btw what engine is OOTP going to use ? CM3 or CM4 (or a little bit of both) ?

You mean game engine? Interface?

The game engine will be an evolution of OOTP 6, meaning that it'll be based on DIPS, but with pitch-by-pitch mode. Roster AI will be almost completely recoded, so it can handle the new league and team layout. Media/player interaction will take the same approach as CM4, but I am not sure how much of the CM4 code I will be able to use. Too early to tell

As far as the interface goes, it'll probably be a mix of OOTP and CM... it'll utilize a new GUI system, so the possibilities are endless.

Markus Heinsohn · 07-04-2004, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

OOTP isn't going to be based directly upon any of SI's existing products but is going to borrow technology and ideas from all of the libraries that we've got inhouse.

It will utilise one of our inhouse GUI libraries for the front end (which means it'll definitely be available on Mac and PC, possibly also Xbox) - however this doesn't restrict the look or feel of the GUI because our libraries are skinnable and very customisable (as users of (for example) CM4 have found in the past).

Damned, beat me to it

Blackadar · 07-04-2004, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

That's the issue, except there is no Confirm button to click on the news item. So I can't work around it.

Update

I found a workaround.

Atlanta accepted the trade but there was no confirm button. I continued the game for a day or two and then I got another e-mail which allowed me to confirm the trade. Weird.

MizzouRah · 07-04-2004, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by condors

working on my 3rd season as the flyers

1st season i won the cup in 7 games (great stuff)

2nd season i think i have everything figured out, traded all my old guys who perfermed for me winning the cup, and finished in 10th place missing the playoffs

3rd season-is going well alot of tough personal decsions to make espically durning the wavier draft

love watching guys develop in the game i had 2 first round picks that were taken before i took over the team if they produce like roenick and primeau then i may be able to win another cup

Although my registration is now accecpted at sigames, can we bounce questions off of you?

Todd

Buccaneer · 07-04-2004, 10:24 AM

Thank you Marc and Markus for your responses.

rexallllsc · 07-04-2004, 10:28 AM

Who do I emailed w/ questions for online billing? I'm not at home, so I can't fire up my game...lil help anyone? TIA.

Johnny93g · 07-04-2004, 11:49 AM

Ok....Im about a month into my St. Mikes game...Im enjoying it, but have some concerns...

- Tim Brent was suspended for 14 games in my 2nd pre-season game.....He is not serving the suspension for some reason....

- Exporting the Boxscores to Notebook would make life easier for those who want to do a dynasty

- After exporting the league info to notepad(that includes standing, scoring leaders, etc...) theres info missing that should be there.....Goal leaders are listed, assist leaders are listed, but points isnt.....theres no table with goals, assists, and points like in the game.....again, makes life very difficult to do a dynasty.......

Heres and example...

Code:

================================================================================================
 2003-04 Goals
================================================================================================

Pos   Player                   Nation                   GP     Gls    
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1st   Wojtek Wolski            Brampton                 4      6      
2nd   Mike Richards            Kitchener                2      5      
3rd   Luke Dubbin              Guelph                   3      4

Code:

================================================================================================
 2003-04 Assists
================================================================================================

Pos   Player                   Nation                   GP     Asts   
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1st   Howie Martin             Brampton                 4      6      
2nd   Marcus Smith             Kitchener                2      5      
3rd   Kamil Kreps              Brampton                 4      5

Code:

================================================================================================
 2003-04 Season Total Stats
================================================================================================

No   Name                     GP  G   A   P   +/-  PIM  SOG  Sh   Av R 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
8    Brent, Tim               4   2   0   2   0    0    10   20.0 6.75 
12   Clutterbuck, Cal         4   1   0   1   -1   16   7    14.3 6.50 
10   Cunningham, Chris        4   0   1   1   1    2    3    0.0  7.25 
6    Good, Dale               2   0   1   1   0    4    1    0.0  6.50

-This set is for my St. Mike's Majors.....This is the kind of table missing from the league report....Although there is something wrong here too....Tim Brent isnt my leading scorer....It's listed alphabetically......

- There is no output in notebook or anywhere i can find for goalie stats...

- Looking at the OHL standings, they have the top 8 making the playoffs.....Am i going nuts, or it that right....Isnt it top 4 in each division, cause im pretty sure it is....I dont follow the OHL too closely, but I'm sure on that....this needs to be fixed

These problems are pretty minor, and I hope fixable, cuz they present unnessesary problems to us dynasty writers....There has been alot of good things said about this game, and I agree, there are some great things about it, but it's the stuff Ive listed that will keep me from buying it....It's stuff that seems to have been overlooked. I really hope it can be fixed.

The_herd · 07-04-2004, 12:30 PM

I really hope the scouting reports for your next opponent are tweaked a bit. Every NHL team is "an all-star team filled with talent."

Maple Leafs · 07-04-2004, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by condors

working on my 3rd season as the flyers

Since you're far enough in to have seen a few... how's the trade deadline? Do you see any indication that teams are loading up/rebuilding at the deadline, or is just another day like it was in the beta demo?

druez · 07-04-2004, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

Ok....Im about a month into my St. Mikes game...Im enjoying it, but have some concerns...

- Tim Brent was suspended for 14 games in my 2nd pre-season game.....He is not serving the suspension for some reason....

- Exporting the Boxscores to Notebook would make life easier for those who want to do a dynasty

- After exporting the league info to notepad(that includes standing, scoring leaders, etc...) theres info missing that should be there.....Goal leaders are listed, assist leaders are listed, but points isnt.....theres no table with goals, assists, and points like in the game.....again, makes life very difficult to do a dynasty.......

Heres and example...

Code:

================================================================================================
 2003-04 Goals
================================================================================================

Pos   Player                   Nation                   GP     Gls    
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1st   Wojtek Wolski            Brampton                 4      6      
2nd   Mike Richards            Kitchener                2      5      
3rd   Luke Dubbin              Guelph                   3      4

Code:

================================================================================================
 2003-04 Assists
================================================================================================

Pos   Player                   Nation                   GP     Asts   
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1st   Howie Martin             Brampton                 4      6      
2nd   Marcus Smith             Kitchener                2      5      
3rd   Kamil Kreps              Brampton                 4      5

Code:

================================================================================================
 2003-04 Season Total Stats
================================================================================================

No   Name                     GP  G   A   P   +/-  PIM  SOG  Sh   Av R 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
8    Brent, Tim               4   2   0   2   0    0    10   20.0 6.75 
12   Clutterbuck, Cal         4   1   0   1   -1   16   7    14.3 6.50 
10   Cunningham, Chris        4   0   1   1   1    2    3    0.0  7.25 
6    Good, Dale               2   0   1   1   0    4    1    0.0  6.50

-This set is for my St. Mike's Majors.....This is the kind of table missing from the league report....Although there is something wrong here too....Tim Brent isnt my leading scorer....It's listed alphabetically......

- There is no output in notebook or anywhere i can find for goalie stats...

- Looking at the OHL standings, they have the top 8 making the playoffs.....Am i going nuts, or it that right....Isnt it top 4 in each division, cause im pretty sure it is....I dont follow the OHL too closely, but I'm sure on that....this needs to be fixed

These problems are pretty minor, and I hope fixable, cuz they present unnessesary problems to us dynasty writers....There has been alot of good things said about this game, and I agree, there are some great things about it, but it's the stuff Ive listed that will keep me from buying it....It's stuff that seems to have been overlooked. I really hope it can be fixed.

I'm not positive, but I don't think players serve suspesions during exhibition games.

Honolulu_Blue · 07-04-2004, 05:20 PM

Hmm... I can't seem to get the damned thing verify my credit card...

condors · 07-04-2004, 06:11 PM

i get interest in my good prospects and proven players that are playing well.

If a player isn't playing i think it effects the interest level on him. I wanted to unload a player that wasn't getting better i got no interest. Played in for a couple weeks due to injury and i was able to work a deal out for him.(may have just been a one time thing but i had been trying to unload him for a several months)

my wife really hates this game as i have played it almost non stop

just for referance if you coach the games and go on vacation some personal moves may happen you disagree with. Contract extensions and call ups but nothing too major that can't be taken care of with the wavier draft. Although you can let your coach manage the games, i don't seem to do as well not using my tactics. You can watch all the games but i think its more effective to build a team tactic and draft for it.

Chief Rum · 07-04-2004, 08:38 PM

I'll bet getting my game in a couple days, but I have a question for those of you who have thegame.

Blackadar talked about trading for a player, getting it accepted and then having to offer a contract to Volkoun. I was surprised no one commented that that's not how trades work in the NHL.

The contract remains in place, of course, but merely transfers to new ownership (as is the case in pretty much all North American sports).

The way Blackadar mentioned is the soccer/transfer way of doing things, which is, no doubt, the way it's done for European hockey as well, and that's fine for those leagues. But trades in the NHL should not be like transfers in CM.

So I am hoping someone can put my concern to rest on that account. Thanks.

CR

Buccaneer · 07-04-2004, 08:51 PM

CR voiced an overall concern I have about SI doing NHL and MLB. In no way should any European-like terminology or methods exist at all in these two leagues if they are not applicable. Marc talked about a vast library of classes available for the developers but if they are based on the way international soccer leagues are run, then they should be re-written or not used. That was what I was getting at in my hope that EHM amd OOTP would be developed without any likeness from CM way of looking or doing things. Does that makes sense?

Blackadar · 07-04-2004, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'll bet getting my game in a couple days, but I have a question for those of you who have thegame.

Blackadar talked about trading for a player, getting it accepted and then having to offer a contract to Volkoun. I was surprised no one commented that that's not how trades work in the NHL.

The contract remains in place, of course, but merely transfers to new ownership (as is the case in pretty much all North American sports).

The way Blackadar mentioned is the soccer/transfer way of doing things, which is, no doubt, the way it's done for European hockey as well, and that's fine for those leagues. But trades in the NHL should not be like transfers in CM.

So I am hoping someone can put my concern to rest on that account. Thanks.

CR

I can probably answer this...

In the NHL, if you draft a European player, you don't have to sign him. However, the rights of the player "stick" with the team. So you can trade for those rights - even though there's no contract with the player in place - and that's what I did.

Eaglesfan27 · 07-04-2004, 09:00 PM

What about trades for players already under contract with the NHL team, is the game making those players have to negotiate a contract with the new team? If so, that is certainly undesirable.

Chief Rum · 07-04-2004, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I can probably answer this...

In the NHL, if you draft a European player, you don't have to sign him. However, the rights of the player "stick" with the team. So you can trade for those rights - even though there's no contract with the player in place - and that's what I did.

So Volkoun wasn't then under contract with the Thrashers (or whatever team he was coming from) when you traded for him? Just his rights were owned?

CR

Maple Leafs · 07-04-2004, 09:38 PM

Part of me wishes SI had just concentrated on making the best NHL sim they could, instead of trying to do an entire internaitonal hockey world. I realize that's me being a self-centered North American jerk, but such is life.

I just have to wonder what some guy from Detroit who buys the game at EB will think when he gets it home, fires it up, and the first "news" he sees is that clubs in Switzerland are offering his prospects contracts.

Again, that's just me. Maybe for everyone who thinks like me, there's ten people who wouldn't think of touching the game if it didn't have a full international flavor. In any event, SI made their decision and we'll see how it turns out.

On a semi-related note, what settings are people using at the beginning of a game as far as international leagues? Assuming you're playing the NHL, do you check the other countries? Standard or enhanced? The manual doesn't go into much detail and I don't want to be a.) missing out, or b.) unnecessarily slowing things down.

RPI-Fan · 07-04-2004, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Part of me wishes SI had just concentrated on making the best NHL sim they could, instead of trying to do an entire internaitonal hockey world. I realize that's me being a self-centered North American jerk, but such is life.

I just have to wonder what some guy from Detroit who buys the game at EB will think when he gets it home, fires it up, and the first "news" he sees is that clubs in Switzerland are offering his prospects contracts.

Again, that's just me. Maybe for everyone who thinks like me, there's ten people who wouldn't think of touching the game if it didn't have a full international flavor. In any event, SI made their decision and we'll see how it turns out.

On a semi-related note, what settings are people using at the beginning of a game as far as international leagues? Assuming you're playing the NHL, do you check the other countries? Standard or enhanced? The manual doesn't go into much detail and I don't want to be a.) missing out, or b.) unnecessarily slowing things down.

I completely agree with you. I'm as big of a hockey fan as the next guy, but the game is just a bit... overwhelming... for me.

In the original EHM, I loved how I could _quickly_ check up on my prospects, etc. I wish that EHM:FE took all the good things from the original EHM (solid engine, nice simplicity, good development model) and improved it. Instead, they seem to have built new features on top of those things, instead of streamlining them.

rexallllsc · 07-04-2004, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So Volkoun wasn't then under contract with the Thrashers (or whatever team he was coming from) when you traded for him? Just his rights were owned?

CR

Yep. Trading is ok. He didn't even have to sign the guy right away if he didn't want to.

Buccaneer · 07-04-2004, 10:26 PM

You mean it has to manage international leagues in addition to minor leagues? Well, my fears are confirmed that SI wanted to build a soccer-like universe (since CM is the driving force for SI) instead of making the best NHL/NAmerican minor league sim possible. This would be like the AI having to manage and keep track of JBL and all of those Latin leagues in OOTP where instead, it needs to do a better job of just managing MLB. Maybe Brian or Jim can do a true NHL sim then?

rexallllsc · 07-04-2004, 10:29 PM

Also...wasn't someone asking abouty trade deadline dealing earlier? Well, I went "On Vacation" so that I could sim a season and check out the draft...so, the AI took over:

My team, the LA Kings is 5th in the Western Conference, and 1 point out of the division lead that would put me in second in the conf.

Montreal is the 2nd worst team in the league (points-wise).

My team traded Frolov and Cammalleri (Frolov is a top prospect) and ap ick for Alex Kovalev...at the trade deadline. Pretty cool if you ask me (even though I wouldnt have made the trade, the trade makes sense).

rexallllsc · 07-04-2004, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

You mean it has to manage international leagues in addition to minor leagues? Well, my fears are confirmed that SI wanted to build a soccer-like universe (since CM is the driving force for SI) instead of making the best NHL/NAmerican minor league sim possible. This would be like the AI having to manage and keep track of JBL and all of those Latin leagues in OOTP where instead, it needs to do a better job of just managing MLB. Maybe Brian or Jim can do a true NHL sim then?

I'm not sure you guys are aware how big of a role Intl. leagues play in hockey in comparison to baseball.

In the NHL, many top prospects come from foreign leagues, and continue to play there for a while before ever coming over, as opposed to baseball where people just come here once drafted/signed. Ya know?

This just makes it more realistic, IMO. I don't see what the problem is as long as the NHL is fine...and honestly, it looks good to me so far.

Chief Rum · 07-04-2004, 10:55 PM

Yeah, agree with rexallsc. We would all like to have the NHL-based sim we get for other leagues, but no other major sport with a huge American interest or league is so dependent on foreign imports like hockey is. Baseball depends on a heavy foreign influence in its player base, but there is a sharp lack of strong leagues in most of the countries which feed baseball. Basketball has some higher quality leagues, but its percentage of players in the NBA is less. No sport has the combination of foreign talent and strong international leagues that hockey does, even if none of the leagues compare to the talent level in the NHL.

I'm not saying it's wrong to want an NHL-specific game, but if you thought this game would be that way, you really were swayed by the name adjustment and didn't really pay close attention to everything else that came out about this game (including ignoring its company predecessor, Championship Manager). I would love an NHL-specific game, but I'm not going to hate NHL EHM just because it doesn't focus specifically on my league.

Remember, what may sell great here (a game like that) would not sell so great in Scandinavia or the UK or Eatsern Europe, which are other strong markets for this sort of game. And thanks to SIGames' previous success with CM, there is a big enough market in those areas to be considered substantial, even for a game based on a sport that has probably its most ravenous supporters in North America.

I do wish the game were more distinctive toward where you play--meaning if you're playing the U.S. or Canada leagues, you get rules and terms in line with those leagues, and vice versa with European leagues. I shouldn't get a CM-feel for the North American end of the game, and that would be disappointing to have (as I gather it does indeed have that). For instance, we don't have "form" or "average ratings" in hockey, even if it's a useful tool to tell how players are playing.

I'm looking forward to playing this.

CR

RPI-Fan · 07-04-2004, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yeah, agree with rexallsc. We would all like to have the NHL-based sim we get for other leagues, but no other major sport with a huge American interest or league is so dependent on foreign imports like hockey is. Baseball depends on a heavy foreign influence in its player base, but there is a sharp lack of strong leagues in most of the countries which feed baseball. Basketball has some higher quality leagues, but its percentage of players in the NBA is less. No sport has the combination of foreign talent and strong international leagues that hockey does, even if none of the leagues compare to the talent level in the NHL.

I'm not saying it's wrong to want an NHL-specific game, but if you thought this game would be that way, you really were swayed by the name adjustment and didn't really pay close attention to everything else that came out about this game (including ignoring its company predecessor, Championship Manager). I would love an NHL-specific game, but I'm not going to hate NHL EHM just because it doesn't focus specifically on my league.

Remember, what may sell great here (a game like that) would not sell so great in Scandinavia or the UK or Eatsern Europe, which are other strong markets for this sort of game. And thanks to SIGames' previous success with CM, there is a big enough market in those areas to be considered substantial, even for a game based on a sport that has probably its most ravenous supporters in North America.

I do wish the game were more distinctive toward where you play--meaning if you're playing the U.S. or Canada leagues, you get rules and terms in line with those leagues, and vice versa with European leagues. I shouldn't get a CM-feel for the North American end of the game, and that would be disappointing to have (as I gather it does indeed have that). For instance, we don't have "form" or "average ratings" in hockey, even if it's a useful tool to tell how players are playing.

I'm looking forward to playing this.

CR

My issue is, sometimes there needs to be some realism sacrificed for the sake of playability. In EHM, I loved being able to quickly check up on my prospects' progress but going to a specific page and clicking their name. Now, perhaps that easy access sacrificed their leagues' accuracy, and their stats weren't as useful.

If that's the case, and simming all these minor leagues is a necessity for stat accuracy and relavance, I can certainly understand the point of them being there.

However, I just wish there was a slightly more streamlined way to keep tabs on my team's system.

(I do know how the hockey world works, and how international teams play a role in the development of prospects. From my interest in college hockey, I have a good idea of the impact/necessity/relavance of the junior leagues, at least in Canada. I don't think coming out and proclaiming that I don't understand how the hockey world works is very fair).

Buccaneer · 07-04-2004, 11:16 PM

CR, I understand what you are saying. However, I believe the NHL is still clearly dominated by Canadian/US players and fans and the perception is just like the NBA and its comparison to world basketball leagues. You are right in that the predecessor is CM but in real life, NHL and MLB are NAmerica-centric leagues and therefore, it cannot and must not be like FIFA or whatever the international soccer governing body is.

Buccaneer · 07-04-2004, 11:19 PM

RPI-Fan: I like the way FOF presents a player's college stats, or FBCB with HS stats, or OOTP with minor league/college/HS stats. The engine does not have to take time to manage and process a league to generate those stats but come up with a model that presents realistic stats.

sachmo71 · 07-04-2004, 11:28 PM

You can have as many or as few leagues present in your game as you want. You aren't locked into having foreign league games simmed at all, that's decided in the game setup. I decided for my first game to have all league with maximum stats, but you could run the NHL only if you wish.

Pumpy Tudors · 07-04-2004, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

RPI-Fan: I like the way FOF presents a player's college stats, or FBCB with HS stats, or OOTP with minor league/college/HS stats. The engine does not have to take time to manage and process a league to generate those stats but come up with a model that presents realistic stats.

I've been playing NHL EHM this evening, and I'm not exactly sure what your concern is. To me, the NHL seems to be modeled rather well in the game, and I would imagine that the other leagues in the game are also modeled well. The reason that I quote the above is that I would consider how the stats are being derived. In FOF and FBCB, I'm guessing that the stats are derived for each player individually. They're not necessarily in the context of a "team" or a "game." I would think that it's the same with OOTP in terms of college or high school stats. While those things are fine, an important aspect in SI's games is that games are simulated for teams all over the world. The stats are not only realistic, but they're "real" in the sense that they occured in a game that the engine actually simulated. Unless the issue is simulation speed, I can't see how this is could be seen as a problem. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the other games. I love every game mentioned here. I'm just not sure what's wrong with SI's approach in NHL EHM.

rexallllsc · 07-04-2004, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

My issue is, sometimes there needs to be some realism sacrificed for the sake of playability. In EHM, I loved being able to quickly check up on my prospects' progress but going to a specific page and clicking their name. Now, perhaps that easy access sacrificed their leagues' accuracy, and their stats weren't as useful.

You still can...Roster->Filter->Unsigned Prospects

rexallllsc · 07-04-2004, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

CR, I understand what you are saying. However, I believe the NHL is still clearly dominated by Canadian/US players and fans and the perception is just like the NBA and its comparison to world basketball leagues. You are right in that the predecessor is CM but in real life, NHL and MLB are NAmerica-centric leagues and therefore, it cannot and must not be like FIFA or whatever the international soccer governing body is.

The Kings have a prospect who was drafted in 2001 who has been in the Swedish Elite League for 4 years now (http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisp...id%5B%5D=56792). He doesn't want to come over until he has a good shot at making the team. Their choice this year, Tukonen, is playing in the Swedish Elite League next year. He's too young to play in the AHL, and doesn't want to play Major Junior in Canada.

IMO, the SEL, FEL, etc. leagues are necessary because of how much talent is coming from Europe these days.

Makes the game all that more realistic if you ask me.

I understand where you're coming from...I just don't think the NHL is as NA influenced as MLB is.

Eaglesfan27 · 07-05-2004, 12:36 AM

Anyone else seeing a high number of shots? I'm using normal shooting, and I'm routinely seeing each team in my games averaging over 40 shots a game.

Chief Rum · 07-05-2004, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

My issue is, sometimes there needs to be some realism sacrificed for the sake of playability. In EHM, I loved being able to quickly check up on my prospects' progress but going to a specific page and clicking their name. Now, perhaps that easy access sacrificed their leagues' accuracy, and their stats weren't as useful.

If that's the case, and simming all these minor leagues is a necessity for stat accuracy and relavance, I can certainly understand the point of them being there.

However, I just wish there was a slightly more streamlined way to keep tabs on my team's system.

(I do know how the hockey world works, and how international teams play a role in the development of prospects. From my interest in college hockey, I have a good idea of the impact/necessity/relavance of the junior leagues, at least in Canada. I don't think coming out and proclaiming that I don't understand how the hockey world works is very fair).

I pretty much agree with much of what you say, RPI-fan. It's obvious that plenty of things could be streamlined for easier access. I'm just noting that SIGames didn't make this game for just us North Americans, nor have they historically been one-league central in their past ventures. Really, this is just a different sort of text sim game (more expansive, but perhaps at the sacrifice of specific detail) that is not entirely aimed at NHL fans, but hockey fans in general.

As I said in my previous post, I would enjoy an NHL-central hockey game just as much as I enjoy such games for other sports. I'm just saying I understand where CM is coming from in making the game the way they did, and hoping to illustrate that perspective for those amongst us who may not be too familiar with SIGames or with CM.

As for that last part, I'm not sure if you were making a general statement to back up your words with a rundown of your knowledge of hockey, or if that was a specific barb at me, but nowhere in my post did I question your acumen (or anyone's) in hockey. So if it was the latter, I'm confused as to why you would say I was proclaiming you to have a lack of knowledge of the hockey world.

CR

Eaglesfan27 · 07-05-2004, 01:10 AM

I think you meant to reply to RPI-fan, not me

Chief Rum · 07-05-2004, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think you meant to reply to RPI-fan, not me

lol...sorry, Eaglesfan. I think I locked onto your name because I read your post just before replying to RPI-fan.

CR

bbor · 07-05-2004, 01:20 AM

Is it possible to start the game with the cupboards empty?

As in draft the league from scratch?

07-03-2004, 10:21 PM	#105
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	There are a few of things I liked about the old EHM interface. I really can't say which I like better yet. My CM experience was only limited to CM4 and tired of that quickly. __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs

07-04-2004, 12:50 AM	#107
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Well, I haven't paid for the game yet (although I'm sure I will within the next few days) since it has the nice six-month tryout, but I'm enjoying the time I'm spending with it. I just got around to starting my first exhibition game. I'm playing as the Devils GM (I won't be as much of a stick-in-the-mud as Lamoriello is), and my first preseason game is against Toronto. I nearly shit a brick when, early in the first period, Bryan Marchment nicked Brian Gionta with his knee. Thankfully, Gio is all right, but Marchment didn't waste any time starting his antics this season. I already love this game. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

07-04-2004, 11:49 AM	#121
Johnny93g College Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto	Ok....Im about a month into my St. Mikes game...Im enjoying it, but have some concerns... - Tim Brent was suspended for 14 games in my 2nd pre-season game.....He is not serving the suspension for some reason.... - Exporting the Boxscores to Notebook would make life easier for those who want to do a dynasty - After exporting the league info to notepad(that includes standing, scoring leaders, etc...) theres info missing that should be there.....Goal leaders are listed, assist leaders are listed, but points isnt.....theres no table with goals, assists, and points like in the game.....again, makes life very difficult to do a dynasty....... Heres and example... Code: ================================================================================================ 2003-04 Goals ================================================================================================ Pos Player Nation GP Gls ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1st Wojtek Wolski Brampton 4 6 2nd Mike Richards Kitchener 2 5 3rd Luke Dubbin Guelph 3 4 Code: ================================================================================================ 2003-04 Assists ================================================================================================ Pos Player Nation GP Asts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1st Howie Martin Brampton 4 6 2nd Marcus Smith Kitchener 2 5 3rd Kamil Kreps Brampton 4 5 Code: ================================================================================================ 2003-04 Season Total Stats ================================================================================================ No Name GP G A P +/- PIM SOG Sh Av R ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 8 Brent, Tim 4 2 0 2 0 0 10 20.0 6.75 12 Clutterbuck, Cal 4 1 0 1 -1 16 7 14.3 6.50 10 Cunningham, Chris 4 0 1 1 1 2 3 0.0 7.25 6 Good, Dale 2 0 1 1 0 4 1 0.0 6.50 -This set is for my St. Mike's Majors.....This is the kind of table missing from the league report....Although there is something wrong here too....Tim Brent isnt my leading scorer....It's listed alphabetically...... - There is no output in notebook or anywhere i can find for goalie stats... - Looking at the OHL standings, they have the top 8 making the playoffs.....Am i going nuts, or it that right....Isnt it top 4 in each division, cause im pretty sure it is....I dont follow the OHL too closely, but I'm sure on that....this needs to be fixed These problems are pretty minor, and I hope fixable, cuz they present unnessesary problems to us dynasty writers....There has been alot of good things said about this game, and I agree, there are some great things about it, but it's the stuff Ive listed that will keep me from buying it....It's stuff that seems to have been overlooked. I really hope it can be fixed. __________________ FOOL- Toronto Marlboros FOOL Classic Champions 2073, 2078, 2079, 2114, 2116, 2117, 2129, 2152, 2155, 2169, 2192 46 35 FOOL H- New York Giants World Champions 1914, 1928 BBCF: Notre Dame TML Last edited by Johnny93g : 07-04-2004 at 12:02 PM.

07-04-2004, 12:30 PM	#122
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	I really hope the scouting reports for your next opponent are tweaked a bit. Every NHL team is "an all-star team filled with talent." __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs

07-04-2004, 08:38 PM	#127
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	I'll bet getting my game in a couple days, but I have a question for those of you who have thegame. Blackadar talked about trading for a player, getting it accepted and then having to offer a contract to Volkoun. I was surprised no one commented that that's not how trades work in the NHL. The contract remains in place, of course, but merely transfers to new ownership (as is the case in pretty much all North American sports). The way Blackadar mentioned is the soccer/transfer way of doing things, which is, no doubt, the way it's done for European hockey as well, and that's fine for those leagues. But trades in the NHL should not be like transfers in CM. So I am hoping someone can put my concern to rest on that account. Thanks. CR __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

07-03-2004, 09:07 PM	#101
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I have a bad premonition about the release of OOTP7. Not only will it have an interface that is too much like CM (i.e., will require getting used to), but what will happen to the notorious, infamous SI forums when that game is released? About the interface, it appears from folks here that there is too much of CM in EHM. Not that it is a bad thing, but don't you think that it doesn't look something NHL marketing would come up with (but something FIFA would)?

07-03-2004, 09:46 PM	#102
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	I think this interface would work fine for baseball, especially with all of the stats and minor leagues it has.

07-03-2004, 09:52 PM	#103
klayman College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edmonton	IMO, the interface is light years ahead of the old EHM, but then I'm a CM lover.

07-03-2004, 10:20 PM	#104
rexallllsc Banned Join Date: May 2003	Interface is hard to get a grasp of at first, as was the CM interface. However, the cm4 interface was awesome, IMO. I think EHM will be on that next version... At any rate, I got the game 2 hours ago, and Im already WAY into it...Im going to do a firesale of sorts to go for Ovechkin or Crosby

07-04-2004, 01:35 AM	#108
rexallllsc Banned Join Date: May 2003	I'm the GM of the Kings...and for no reason (I think?) Brad Chartrand was called up to the team...anyone have any reason why this would happen?

07-04-2004, 05:03 AM	#110
BreizhManu College Benchwarmer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Paris, France	btw what engine is OOTP going to use ? CM3 or CM4 (or a little bit of both) ?

07-04-2004, 06:54 AM	#112
condors College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	working on my 3rd season as the flyers 1st season i won the cup in 7 games (great stuff) 2nd season i think i have everything figured out, traded all my old guys who perfermed for me winning the cup, and finished in 10th place missing the playoffs 3rd season-is going well alot of tough personal decsions to make espically durning the wavier draft love watching guys develop in the game i had 2 first round picks that were taken before i took over the team if they produce like roenick and primeau then i may be able to win another cup

07-04-2004, 10:24 AM	#119
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Thank you Marc and Markus for your responses.

07-04-2004, 10:28 AM	#120
rexallllsc Banned Join Date: May 2003	Who do I emailed w/ questions for online billing? I'm not at home, so I can't fire up my game...lil help anyone? TIA.

07-04-2004, 05:20 PM	#125
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	Hmm... I can't seem to get the damned thing verify my credit card...

07-04-2004, 06:11 PM	#126
condors College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	i get interest in my good prospects and proven players that are playing well. If a player isn't playing i think it effects the interest level on him. I wanted to unload a player that wasn't getting better i got no interest. Played in for a couple weeks due to injury and i was able to work a deal out for him.(may have just been a one time thing but i had been trying to unload him for a several months) my wife really hates this game as i have played it almost non stop just for referance if you coach the games and go on vacation some personal moves may happen you disagree with. Contract extensions and call ups but nothing too major that can't be taken care of with the wavier draft. Although you can let your coach manage the games, i don't seem to do as well not using my tactics. You can watch all the games but i think its more effective to build a team tactic and draft for it.

07-04-2004, 08:51 PM	#128
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	CR voiced an overall concern I have about SI doing NHL and MLB. In no way should any European-like terminology or methods exist at all in these two leagues if they are not applicable. Marc talked about a vast library of classes available for the developers but if they are based on the way international soccer leagues are run, then they should be re-written or not used. That was what I was getting at in my hope that EHM amd OOTP would be developed without any likeness from CM way of looking or doing things. Does that makes sense?

07-04-2004, 09:00 PM	#130
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	What about trades for players already under contract with the NHL team, is the game making those players have to negotiate a contract with the new team? If so, that is certainly undesirable. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

07-04-2004, 09:38 PM	#132
Maple Leafs Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002	Part of me wishes SI had just concentrated on making the best NHL sim they could, instead of trying to do an entire internaitonal hockey world. I realize that's me being a self-centered North American jerk, but such is life. I just have to wonder what some guy from Detroit who buys the game at EB will think when he gets it home, fires it up, and the first "news" he sees is that clubs in Switzerland are offering his prospects contracts. Again, that's just me. Maybe for everyone who thinks like me, there's ten people who wouldn't think of touching the game if it didn't have a full international flavor. In any event, SI made their decision and we'll see how it turns out. On a semi-related note, what settings are people using at the beginning of a game as far as international leagues? Assuming you're playing the NHL, do you check the other countries? Standard or enhanced? The manual doesn't go into much detail and I don't want to be a.) missing out, or b.) unnecessarily slowing things down. __________________ Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis

07-04-2004, 10:26 PM	#135
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	You mean it has to manage international leagues in addition to minor leagues? Well, my fears are confirmed that SI wanted to build a soccer-like universe (since CM is the driving force for SI) instead of making the best NHL/NAmerican minor league sim possible. This would be like the AI having to manage and keep track of JBL and all of those Latin leagues in OOTP where instead, it needs to do a better job of just managing MLB. Maybe Brian or Jim can do a true NHL sim then?

07-04-2004, 10:29 PM	#136
rexallllsc Banned Join Date: May 2003	Also...wasn't someone asking abouty trade deadline dealing earlier? Well, I went "On Vacation" so that I could sim a season and check out the draft...so, the AI took over: My team, the LA Kings is 5th in the Western Conference, and 1 point out of the division lead that would put me in second in the conf. Montreal is the 2nd worst team in the league (points-wise). My team traded Frolov and Cammalleri (Frolov is a top prospect) and ap ick for Alex Kovalev...at the trade deadline. Pretty cool if you ask me (even though I wouldnt have made the trade, the trade makes sense).

07-04-2004, 10:55 PM	#138
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Yeah, agree with rexallsc. We would all like to have the NHL-based sim we get for other leagues, but no other major sport with a huge American interest or league is so dependent on foreign imports like hockey is. Baseball depends on a heavy foreign influence in its player base, but there is a sharp lack of strong leagues in most of the countries which feed baseball. Basketball has some higher quality leagues, but its percentage of players in the NBA is less. No sport has the combination of foreign talent and strong international leagues that hockey does, even if none of the leagues compare to the talent level in the NHL. I'm not saying it's wrong to want an NHL-specific game, but if you thought this game would be that way, you really were swayed by the name adjustment and didn't really pay close attention to everything else that came out about this game (including ignoring its company predecessor, Championship Manager). I would love an NHL-specific game, but I'm not going to hate NHL EHM just because it doesn't focus specifically on my league. Remember, what may sell great here (a game like that) would not sell so great in Scandinavia or the UK or Eatsern Europe, which are other strong markets for this sort of game. And thanks to SIGames' previous success with CM, there is a big enough market in those areas to be considered substantial, even for a game based on a sport that has probably its most ravenous supporters in North America. I do wish the game were more distinctive toward where you play--meaning if you're playing the U.S. or Canada leagues, you get rules and terms in line with those leagues, and vice versa with European leagues. I shouldn't get a CM-feel for the North American end of the game, and that would be disappointing to have (as I gather it does indeed have that). For instance, we don't have "form" or "average ratings" in hockey, even if it's a useful tool to tell how players are playing. I'm looking forward to playing this. CR __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

07-04-2004, 11:16 PM	#140
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	CR, I understand what you are saying. However, I believe the NHL is still clearly dominated by Canadian/US players and fans and the perception is just like the NBA and its comparison to world basketball leagues. You are right in that the predecessor is CM but in real life, NHL and MLB are NAmerica-centric leagues and therefore, it cannot and must not be like FIFA or whatever the international soccer governing body is.

07-04-2004, 11:19 PM	#141
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	RPI-Fan: I like the way FOF presents a player's college stats, or FBCB with HS stats, or OOTP with minor league/college/HS stats. The engine does not have to take time to manage and process a league to generate those stats but come up with a model that presents realistic stats.

07-04-2004, 11:28 PM	#142
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	You can have as many or as few leagues present in your game as you want. You aren't locked into having foreign league games simmed at all, that's decided in the game setup. I decided for my first game to have all league with maximum stats, but you could run the NHL only if you wish.

07-05-2004, 12:36 AM	#146
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Anyone else seeing a high number of shots? I'm using normal shooting, and I'm routinely seeing each team in my games averaging over 40 shots a game. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

07-05-2004, 01:10 AM	#148
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	I think you meant to reply to RPI-fan, not me __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

07-05-2004, 01:20 AM	#150
bbor Pro Starter Join Date: May 2001 Location: toronto	Is it possible to start the game with the cupboards empty? As in draft the league from scratch? __________________ Pumpy Tudors Now that I've cracked and made that admission, I wonder if I'm only a couple of steps away from wanting to tongue-kiss Jaromir Jagr and give Bobby Clarke a blowjob.

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