Jesus is Love. Allah is Not.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I really dont see why this would alienate. But if it does, Im sorry to hear that. But what if it turns one person to Christ? Then it is a good thread.

What if it turns one person away from Christ?

Originally Posted by tarcone

God made a covenant with the Jews to protect them.

Not doing the best of jobs there. We may need a relief pitcher to take them through the next millennium.

Originally Posted by tarcone

When I said Allah preaches that it is okay to murder. This is not about Love.

Many have been killed in the name of Christianity as well. It's hard to put one religion over any other. Don't confuse the violence of specific religious leadership with the religion itself. This is one of the reasons a healthy state practices separation of church and state.

[ISiddiqui]

He's also about emotional blackmail. That's not love. If it was a woman, we'd call her a bitch.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I think I am not helping. Things are getting muddled between the Old Testamnet and the New Testament.

I will refrain from the Old Testamnet. Jesus is Love, its that simple.

So now you want to ignore a large part of the book that is the literal word of God according to you?

[Jughead Spock]

Why, what's wrong with the Old Testament? It's not the word of God?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I think I am not helping. Things are getting muddled between the Old Testamnet and the New Testament.

I will refrain from the Old Testamnet. Jesus is Love, its that simple.

Ok, now for a moment of seriousness...

Like it or not, the Old Testament IS part of christianity, like it or not. Take the good with the bad man. No cherry picking.

/seriousness

[lungs]

If that's the case, can we ignore the parts of the Koran that you are pointing out as examples of its evilness?

[Jughead Spock]

Take the good with the bad man. No cherry picking.

Oh man, now you're REALLY gonna bum out the religious types.

[Noop]

I want to say this about the bible... does anyone find it strange there is not a single passage that praises intelligence in the bible?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I think I am not helping. Things are getting muddled between the Old Testamnet and the New Testament.

I will refrain from the Old Testamnet. Jesus is Love, its that simple.

Matthew 10:34 - Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace but a sword.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Jughead Spock

Oh man, now you're REALLY gonna bum out the religious types.

Haha!! That's the great thing about being an atheist, I don't have to feel guilty about anything or make any excuses.

[lungs]

Is this the point where tarcone slinks away with his tail between his legs?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Noop

I want to say this about the bible... does anyone find it strange there is not a single passage that praises intelligence in the bible?

The original sin was in seeking knowledge.

[Jughead Spock]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Matthew 10:34 - Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace but a sword.

IOW...

Piper 19:88 - I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass . . . and I'm all out of bubble gum.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Jughead Spock

IOW...

Piper 19:88 - I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass . . . and I'm all out of bubble gum.

So sayeth the Piper of the Roddy!!!

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Jughead Spock

IOW...

Piper 19:88 - I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass . . . and I'm all out of bubble gum.

I thought that was Duke.

[tarcone]

11While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a]'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.'

14"But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'

15"He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

16"The first one came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more.'

17" 'Well done, my good servant!' his master replied. 'Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.'

18"The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more.'

19"His master answered, 'You take charge of five cities.'

20"Then another servant came and said, 'Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.'

22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then didn't you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?'

24"Then he said to those standing by, 'Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.'

25" 'Sir,' they said, 'he already has ten!'

26"He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Here is the whole parable. Jesus is not wanting to kill.
He is telling a story with a character in it who does want to kill.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

The original sin was in seeking knowledge.

Doesn't praise it.

[tarcone]

Again Im not the most educated man on the Bible so I will take the Old Tstament, because Jesus is found throughout it.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Again Im not the most educated man on the Bible so I will take the Old Tstament, because Jesus is found throughout it.

I think you mean New Testament but that's ok because I realize you're pretty much getting butt fucked by everyone. (No Homo)

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Noop

I want to say this about the bible... does anyone find it strange there is not a single passage that praises intelligence in the bible?

Come to think of it, Job is an attack on the intelligentsia.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Again Im not the most educated man on the Bible so I will take the Old Tstament, because Jesus is found throughout it.

I suggest you learn your own stuff before talking down somebody else's.

[tarcone]

Mathew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. Christ has to conquer a peace by overcoming the evil that is in the way of peace. Hence, to preach the gospel of purity and peace always arouses the opposition of the evil doer. Evil has to be put down before peace can prevail. Hence, while the great end that Christ proposes is peace, the immediate result of his coming, and of the preaching of the gospel, was opposition and bloodshed.

But a sword. The only sword that Christ or his followers use in the conflict is the Sword of the Spirit, but the persecutor has in every age turned upon them the carnal sword. The sword is sent because persecutors use it upon the church.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Noop

I think you mean New Testament but that's ok because I realize you're pretty much getting butt fucked by everyone. (No Homo)

I disagree.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Here is the whole parable. Jesus is not wanting to kill.
He is telling a story with a character in it who does want to kill.

Dude, you are missing the point. You can pull individual quotes from the koran/bible/whatever to make it sound like the book is about whatever you want it to be about.

That's why saying "Allah is about killing" or whatever and then throwing a single quote from the Koran is just as dumb as me throwing that quote out and saying that Jesus is the same.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by lungs

I suggest you learn your own stuff before talking down somebody else's.

Im not talking down. I am learning and trying to be Christ-like. And I fail at that because I am human. But this has been a great time and I am learning a lot.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I disagree.

???? I am under the impression that the New Testament is where Jesus does his thing but I could be wrong.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Mathew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. Christ has to conquer a peace by overcoming the evil that is in the way of peace. Hence, to preach the gospel of purity and peace always arouses the opposition of the evil doer. Evil has to be put down before peace can prevail. Hence, while the great end that Christ proposes is peace, the immediate result of his coming, and of the preaching of the gospel, was opposition and bloodshed.

But a sword. The only sword that Christ or his followers use in the conflict is the Sword of the Spirit, but the persecutor has in every age turned upon them the carnal sword. The sword is sent because persecutors use it upon the church.

That apologetic explanation is curiously missing from my bible?

[molson]

I'm a little (OK a lot) boozed up as I'm trying to skim this thread but it looks like a winner.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Dude, you are missing the point. You can pull individual quotes from the koran/bible/whatever to make it sound like the book is about whatever you want it to be about.

That's why saying "Allah is about killing" or whatever and then throwing a single quote from the Koran is just as dumb as me throwing that quote out and saying that Jesus is the same.

+1

Tarcone, I have no problem if you came on here saying Jesus is Love. I'd have largely ignored it, but would have had no problem with it. Have at it. It's very personal and important to you.

But when you come on here with the express purpose of putting down Islam, you are only here to inflame and offend. And you've offended me as a person with some close friends that happen to be Muslim. Argue scripture all you want, but you've done nothing here but try to flame the fires of religous hatred under the veil of hoping that these people that follow a so-called evil religion are 'saved'.

Go crawl back into the hole you came from if that's all you're trying to do. There are plenty of good Christians out there that can spread the word without promoting hate of others.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Dude, you are missing the point. You can pull individual quotes from the koran/bible/whatever to make it sound like the book is about whatever you want it to be about.

That's why saying "Allah is about killing" or whatever and then throwing a single quote from the Koran is just as dumb as me throwing that quote out and saying that Jesus is the same.

I have explained the Bible quotes.

Koran 9:111
Those who kill or are killed by unbelievers will return to the garden of Paradise (Koran 9:111), where they will enjoy many lustful pleasures - sex with virgins, pleasant food and drink, etc.:

Can you explain this?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Again Im not the most educated man on the Bible so I will take the Old Tstament, because Jesus is found throughout it.

Tarcone, I'm not trying to come down on you, but, that's part of what keeps the sheeple in the pews...lack of education. Not schooling, but, lack of asking the difficult questions or seeking answers outside of the bible.

A religions existence is partially based on people blindly following it or not questioning it. I just think it's a bad idea not to question things, especially when it is something like religion that has such a huge influence on people. Bad things can happen whether it is intentional or not.

[lighthousekeeper]

I wonder if there are any psychologists or psychiatrists on the board who would know if there is an official term to identify the condition that tarcone seems to have. it's certainly not a unique occurance - several times before i've witnessed people who previously were pretty logical but then got themselves into a mindset in which they hyper-focused on a 'jesus is love' kind of feeling. it's definitely different from simply 'being religious' or 'having faith', as many of us have faith in god (faith implying a belief in what can't be logically proven) but not in a way that results in an extreme simplification or extreme focus on jesus, jesus' power to save, jesus=love, an inability to understand or intolerance of differing viewpoints, or an inability to refrain from proselytizing.

i'm curious about this because my brother in law seems to have the same condition, although we suspect he may also have mild schizophrenia as well.

[molson]

FOFC needs more religious wars....I'm on the side of the Lutherans, because they have the hottest broads, I don't care what anyone says. We have the Swedish/German/Finnish territory nailed down - end of debate.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by molson

FOFC needs more religious wars....I'm on the side of the Lutherans, because they have the hottest broads, I don't care what anyone says. We have the Swedish/German/Finnish territory nailed down - end of debate.

pix please, thanks!!!

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by lungs

+1

Tarcone, I have no problem if you came on here saying Jesus is Love. I'd have largely ignored it, but would have had no problem with it. Have at it. It's very personal and important to you.

But when you come on here with the express purpose of putting down Islam, you are only here to inflame and offend. And you've offended me as a person with some close friends that happen to be Muslim. Argue scripture all you want, but you've done nothing here but try to flame the fires of religous hatred under the veil of hoping that these people that follow a so-called evil religion are 'saved'.

Go crawl back into the hole you came from if that's all you're trying to do. There are plenty of good Christians out there that can spread the word without promoting hate of others.

Hate? I dont hate anyone. I have said several times I pray for them. If it offends you that the one true God is Jesus, I will pray for you also.

[dawgfan]

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I have explained the Bible quotes.

Koran 9:111
Those who kill or are killed by unbelievers will return to the garden of Paradise (Koran 9:111), where they will enjoy many lustful pleasures - sex with virgins, pleasant food and drink, etc.:

Can you explain this?

In what context is this mentioned in? What's the complete verse say? I'm willing to bet there's probably a very low number of muslims on this site to help with your question.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I have explained the Bible quotes.

Koran 9:111
Those who kill or are killed by unbelievers will return to the garden of Paradise (Koran 9:111), where they will enjoy many lustful pleasures - sex with virgins, pleasant food and drink, etc.:

Can you explain this?

Please read this verse carefully:

[60.8] Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

Putting those two together, you'd assume that killing unbelievers in the verse you highlight would be unbelievers that make war against you. Otherwise the verse I highlight basically says treat other folks with respect so long as you don't fuck with us.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I have explained the Bible quotes.

Koran 9:111
Those who kill or are killed by unbelievers will return to the garden of Paradise (Koran 9:111), where they will enjoy many lustful pleasures - sex with virgins, pleasant food and drink, etc.:

Can you explain this?

I'm not an Islamic scholar, so no. I don't particularily feel like reading the Koran from cover to cover. Already had to do that with the NT and OT.

Can you explain the ones listed on page 2 that say things to the contrary of the above?

It doesn't matter to me, because I see them both simply as another religion, the same way I see Buddhism, Shinto, whatever.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by lungs

Please read this verse carefully:

[60.8] Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

Putting those two together, you'd assume that killing unbelievers in the verse you highlight would be unbelievers that make war against you. Otherwise the verse I highlight basically says treat other folks with respect so long as you don't fuck with us.

Kinda like, "treat others like how you want to be treated"?

[lungs]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Hate? I dont hate anyone. I have said several times I pray for them. If it offends you that the one true God is Jesus, I will pray for you also.

Hate may be a strong word, but disrespect certainly isn't.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Tarcone, I'm not trying to come down on you, but, that's part of what keeps the sheeple in the pews...lack of education. Not schooling, but, lack of asking the difficult questions or seeking answers outside of the bible.

A religions existence is partially based on people blindly following it or not questioning it. I just think it's a bad idea not to question things, especially when it is something like religion that has such a huge influence on people. Bad things can happen whether it is intentional or not.

But I do question it. Everyday. I am not uneducated. I am not religious. I am a Christian. And I know bad things will happen but in the end Im in Heavan.
Along the way, I will question it. In fact I do. Jacob had many wives and concubines. Why? That stumped me.

I am flaming this a little because I am studyong and learning as I post things and read what others say. I am saddened by some of the comments but others are making me look more deeply into the Koran.
That doesnt make me believe its right. but it I try and understand where they come from and maybe that helps me help them.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Kinda like, "treat others like how you want to be treated"?

I've found the Islamic golden rule the first time I've read the Koran

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

In what context is this mentioned in? What's the complete verse say? I'm willing to bet there's probably a very low number of muslims on this site to help with your question.

The whole context. I want to understand its meaning.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Hate? I dont hate anyone. I have said several times I pray for them.

Which is actually very offensive to many people.

If it offends you that the one true God is Jesus, I will pray for you also.

...

If you're not a believer, why would this offend you? Seriously. You saying this has the same effect as me saying to you "If it offends you that the one true God is Ra, I will pray for you also."

Inane.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I am flaming this a little because I am studyong and learning as I post things and read what others say. I am saddened by some of the comments but others are making me look more deeply into the Koran.
That doesnt make me believe its right. but it I try and understand where they come from and maybe that helps me help them.

And I will respect you more if you do look into the Koran more than you obviously had. Tonight is the first time I've really looked at it, and I can find plenty of good things in it. The key is not educating yourself on the Koran through some website that has an obvious anti-Islamic agenda.

[Noop]

Tarcone at least you're not fat and from Buffalo so thank God for that. I respect your journey toward some sort of personal enlightenment... I well end here because the rest is disrespectful.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by lungs

Please read this verse carefully:

[60.8] Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

Putting those two together, you'd assume that killing unbelievers in the verse you highlight would be unbelievers that make war against you. Otherwise the verse I highlight basically says treat other folks with respect so long as you don't fuck with us.

[60:6] A good example has been set by them for those who seek GOD and the Last Day. As for those who turn away, GOD is in no need (of them), Most Praiseworthy.

[60:7] GOD may change the animosity between you and them into love. GOD is Omnipotent. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.


[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

In this context it doesnt seem to forgiving.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by tarcone

But I do question it. Everyday. I am not uneducated. I am not religious. I am a Christian. And I know bad things will happen but in the end Im in Heavan.
Along the way, I will question it. In fact I do. Jacob had many wives and concubines. Why? That stumped me.

I am flaming this a little because I am studyong and learning as I post things and read what others say. I am saddened by some of the comments but others are making me look more deeply into the Koran.
That doesnt make me believe its right. but it I try and understand where they come from and maybe that helps me help them.

That's kind of what I'm talking about. I'm assuming, the way you are looking into the koran is with a skeptical 'eye', which is the exact same way (in my opinion) you should be looking at the bible.

Is it important to know why Jacob had many wives? Think of the context and the time it what was written. Relavent then, maybe not so much now, unless you are a mormon. Maybe there's a lesson or moral to the story, I don't really know. The problem is, there have been revisions to the bible and who knows if the translations were done 100% accurately.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Noop

Tarcone at least you're not fat and from Buffalo so thank God for that. I respect your journey toward some sort of personal enlightenment... I well end here because the rest is disrespectful.

I appreciate that you wont be disrespectful.

Have a great night.