Heh. My church is going to be picketed by Westboro.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm not planning to befoul the RIP thread with this but since there's another one that mentions them here ... Westboro is planning to picket the Ronnie James Dio memorial service.

Depending upon the police presence, that might be the last time some of those folks are ever seen picketing anybody.

Whatever came of this Jon?

[lordscarlet]

The magnet sign is the clincher. It's all fairly amusing and then *BAM*. Magnet guy!

[DataKing]

They had me at "All Glory to the Hypnotoad"

[JediKooter]

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, you have seen the awesomeness that is San Diego.

[RainMaker]

Man fires pepper spray on protesters outside Marine's funeral - CNN.com

I don't care what the evidence is against the guy, I would never convict the guy if I sat on a jury.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Whatever came of this Jon?

Sorry, didn't see this question until the thread bumped again.

Apparently not much. About 30 Westboro's, about 30 counter-protestors, largely seemed to be ignored by the 1500 or so fans who showed up.

Here's a blogger's short take on it if you're curious
Feeling Horny? Westboro Baptist Church Protest Dio Memorial | La Figa

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Man fires pepper spray on protesters outside Marine's funeral - CNN.com

I don't care what the evidence is against the guy, I would never convict the guy if I sat on a jury.

Eh, I dunno. I mean, his aim was apparently terrible since he didn't hit the Westboro's but instead hit the counter-protesters & a cop.

[RainMaker]

His heart was in the right place though.

[wade moore]

Ugh.

A kid that went to High School locally and graduated from William and Mary was killed a couple of weeks ago in Afghanistan.

These a-holes are protesting his funeral.

Westboro Baptist Church plans Williamsburg funeral protest - dailypress.com

A small Kansas congregation plans to hold a protest on Saturday before the funeral of First Lt. Todd William Weaver, who was killed in action in Afghanistan on Sept. 9.

Weaver, a Bruton High School and College of William and Mary graduate, was 26. He left behind a wife and daughter.

Westboro Baptist Church sent out press releases announcing its intentions earlier this week. The protest is the first of five planned for Virginia, according to the group, and is the only one associated with a funeral. The group has a reputation for picketing military funerals to preach its message that God hates America because of its tolerance for homosexuality.

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Text WILLIAMSBURG to 71593 for alerts about Williamsburg and James City County. Click here for other text alerts.

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James City County Police Spokesman Maj. Steve Rubino said the church had notified the department of its intentions.

Rubino said police officers will be at the Williamsburg Community Chapel on John Tyler Highway to ensure the safety of the protesters and to make sure Weaver's funeral happens as planned.

The Topeka, Kansas-based congrgation was on the Peninsula in 2008 for a protest near the Coast Guard Reserve Training Center in York County, and also had planned to picket Rep. Jo Ann Davis funeral in 2007.

Religion is the best pure comedy we have going nowadays

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by russiaboss

Religion is the best pure comedy we have going nowadays

I can't recall the comedian who said it, but they asked about how does he determine what kind of jokes he does and the short version is he doesn't joke about anything that you have no choice in like race, but religion is fair game.

[Scarecrow]

In case everyone stayed away from the national news today, the Supreme Court heard the picketing case of Snyder v. Phelps. Here is the transcript of today's proceeding. It's an interesting (and fairly easy) read, and I'm really interested in finding out what the outcome of this will be.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

In case everyone stayed away from the national news today, the Supreme Court heard the picketing case of Snyder v. Phelps. Here is the transcript of today's proceeding. It's an interesting (and fairly easy) read, and I'm really interested in finding out what the outcome of this will be.

Rare is it that I read a high court transcript and consider Ruth Bader Ginsburg to be closest to my position.

[Tigercat]

My level of understanding of constitutional law is pretty poor. But my understanding is that the court has ruled before that public decency laws can be acceptable. Which makes sense, just like someone shouldn't be able to just yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, someone shouldn't be able to yell out constant expletives that come to mind either.

Is there anything more indecent than the specific nature of these protests, occurring during funerals? Seems pretty cut and dry to me, at the very least localities should be allowed to keep these types of protests as far away from funerals and cemeteries as possible.

[JediKooter]

This is a tough one for me. I'm a firm believer in the 1st amendment. As disgusting as the Phelps clan is, the klan and other organizations that really serve no purpose other than to spread their hate, I still think it's protected speech. What I'm not opposed to is cities or states giving places of mourning a special restricted zoning that would require an extremely expensive permit in order to 'protest'. These extremely expensive permits would also be just like hunting or fishing licenses, where there are only so many granted each year.

I'm also for people posting fake funeral notices and sending the Phelps clan on wild goose chases and making them end up spending more money than they have for travel purposes and bankrupting them out of business.

[Matthean]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...05145&allcom=1

So they did another protest of a dead solider only to find their tires slashed and then nobody in town to repair them.

[Tim Tellean]

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that the First Amendment protects fundamentalist church members who mount attention-getting, anti-gay protests outside military funerals.
The court voted 8-1 in favor of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan. The decision upheld an appeals court ruling that threw out a $5 million judgment to the father of a dead Marine who sued church members after they picketed his son's funeral.
Chief Justice John Roberts wrote the opinion for the court. Justice Samuel Alito dissented.
"What Westboro said, in the whole context of how and where it chose to say it, is entitled to 'special protection' under the First Amendment," Roberts wrote, "and that protection cannot be overcome by a jury finding that the picketing was outrageous."
Matthew Snyder died in Iraq in 2006 and his body was returned to the United States for burial. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church, who have picketed military funerals for several years, decided to protest outside the Westminster, Md., church where Snyder's funeral was to be held.
The Rev. Fred Phelps and other family members who make up most of the Westboro Baptist Church have picketed many military funerals in their quest to draw attention to their incendiary view that U.S. deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq are God's punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.
They showed up with their usual signs, including "Thank God for dead soldiers," "You're Going to Hell," "God Hates the USA/Thank God for 9/11," and one that combined the U.S. Marine Corps motto, Semper Fi, with a slur against gay men.
The church members drew counter-demonstrators, as well as media coverage and a heavy police presence to maintain order. The result was a spectacle that led to altering the route of the funeral procession.
Several weeks later, Albert Snyder was surfing the Internet for tributes to his son from other soldiers and strangers when he came upon a poem on the church's website that attacked Matthew's parents for the way they brought up their son.

Soon after, Albert Snyder filed a lawsuit accusing the Phelpses of intentionally inflicting emotional distress. He won $11 million at trial, later reduced by a judge to $5 million.



The federal appeals court in Richmond, Va., threw out the verdict and said the Constitution shielded the church members from liability.
Forty-eight states, 42 U.S. senators and veterans groups sided with Snyder, asking the court to shield funerals from the Phelps family's "psychological terrorism."
While distancing themselves from the church's message, media organizations, including The Associated Press, urged the court to side with the Phelps family because of concerns that a victory for Snyder could erode speech rights.

[JediKooter]

I think one of the best things that can be done about this organization is to give them no press and no mention of their name. They are attention whores, so if the media would stop covering them, that may help negate what they are trying to do.

[larrymcg421]

Interestingly, Alito wrote the lone dissent. He makes some compelling points, but ultimately I think the court reached the correct conclusion.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I think one of the best things that can be done about this organization is to give them no press and no mention of their name. They are attention whores, so if the media would stop covering them, that may help negate what they are trying to do.

But on the other hand, I think Westboro church may have been a tipping point as far as acceptance of homosexuality, and eventually, gay marriage, in this country. 99.9% of people, regardless of their views on homosexuality, hate what Westboro does. If any national anti-gay sentiment becomes associated with Westboro - that has to be a good thing for progress in the other direction. (Of course, these victims at these funerals certainly didn't sign up to be martyrs.)

[Marc Vaughan]

I'm surprised there isn't some protection against Westboro on the basis of 'incitement to violence' when they picket funerals and suchlike, I'd have thought thats an extremely volatile and emotional situation and wholly inappropriate.

Its not about 'restricting' free speech its about protecting the human rights and dignity of the people at the funeral, by allowing Westboro their actions you're equally removing the rights of others to mourn the loss of their loved one imho.

(out of interest has anyone ever bothered picketting their homes and churches?)

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I think one of the best things that can be done about this organization is to give them no press and no mention of their name. They are attention whores, so if the media would stop covering them, that may help negate what they are trying to do.

I actually tend to disagree with this. I get the impression that they're not attention whores as much as they are money whores in that they want someone to do something at a protest that will allow them to sue the local government for not protecting them. I lean toward the view that pre-protest publicity gives local law enforcement a better chance to avoid the kind of confrontation that would ultimately lead to giving Westboro more money.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by molson

But on the other hand, I think Westboro church may have been a tipping point as far as acceptance of homosexuality, and eventually, gay marriage, in this country. 99.9% of people, regardless of their views on homosexuality, hate what Westboro does. If any national anti-gay sentiment becomes associated with Westboro - that has to be a good thing for progress in the other direction. (Of course, these victims at these funerals certainly didn't sign up to be martyrs.)

I can see that, not sure how much of tipping point they are though. They are definitely polarizing and they are so over the top, there's times where I think it's a big con job. As disgusting as I think their actions are, they do have the 1st Amendment on their side, however, the media is under no obligation to cover them. Their organization reminds of a bunch of 'slip and fall' con artists, I think they are trying to get someone do to something to them so they can make money off of the incident.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I actually tend to disagree with this. I get the impression that they're not attention whores as much as they are money whores in that they want someone to do something at a protest that will allow them to sue the local government for not protecting them. I lean toward the view that pre-protest publicity gives local law enforcement a better chance to avoid the kind of confrontation that would ultimately lead to giving Westboro more money.

Hehe, I just posted something similar to the money whores.

I agree, as big of a 1st Amendment person I am, I would have no problems with them having to get very very expensive permits to protest at funerals and other places that law enforcement would require.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Their organization reminds of a bunch of 'slip and fall' con artists, I think they are trying to get someone do to something to them so they can make money off of the incident.

Ya, I've definitely heard rumors of that - that they're actually coached to try to encourage violent reactions. I wonder if any evidence of that was presented to the courts below, or if there were any arguments to that effect, whether that kind of "conspiracy" is a crime, and how that all ties into the 1st amendment.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, I've definitely heard rumors of that - that they're actually coached to try to encourage violent reactions. I wonder if any evidence of that was presented to the courts below, or if there were any arguments to that effect, whether that kind of "conspiracy" is a crime, and how that all ties into the 1st amendment.

Interesting. I never heard about the coaching thing. If true, that puts what they do in a whole different ball game in my opinion.

Well, according to Dirty Harry, it's felony to conspire to commit a misdemeanor.

[larrymcg421]

The media does a poor job of covering Supreme Court opinions, so I think it is always good to read the specific opinion: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-751.pdf

The protest took place on public property 1000 feet away, not even in sight of people at the church. The father testified that he didn't even read the signs until later when he saw a news story about it. (He knew the signs were there, but couldn't read them).

Furthermore, nothing in the record shows that they intended to incite anything. In fact, the facts demonstrate they were peaceful, under police supervision, displayed their signs and recited bible verses and sang hymns.

The media often reports these cases in broad strokes, as if the court is going to upheld Westboro in every possible protest, when in fact the court is dealing with the specific facts in this one case. If Westboro protests another funeral and is a little more unruly and the content of their message is more directed at the individual moreso than public policy matters, then the court would likely side the other way.

[DanGarion]

I think God should sue them for Libel and/or Slander.

[molson]

Alito was also the sole dissent in that case where the Court overturned a federal law banning animal abuse ("crush") videos. I wouldn't have pegged Alito for that role, but I think he must be an emotional guy and he takes that with him to the court and his dissents.

[Glengoyne]

I'll be darned. I think I agree with Alito. He makes a pretty good case, that I interpret as while WBoro is free to express themselves as they have, they should be susceptible to being held liable under applicable statutes for inflicting emotional injury if the narrow parameters of those statutes apply.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

If these bastards had any balls they would go full after the Prophet Muhammad.