Whats going on in the Sim Market?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Capital

As for Steam, is there any way to stop Steam from launching when I start my PC? Ever since I bought NBA2K9 for the PC and installed Steam, it takes forever for my PC to respond after Window XP is loaded.

I don't mind launching Steam when I'm ready to run the game but just not on startup.

File -> Settings -> Interface tab. There's a option to "Run Steam when Windows starts" Uncheck that and you're all set.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I'd rather have a B+ level game with OOTP's options than an A level game where the only thing you can do is start in a 2009 MLB setup and go from there.

me too. i rather a game with a lot of options (even if i never use 75% of them) and customization, not one guy's vision of what a game should be. with Jim's way you only need to play one career, no need to start and restart multiple times. the starting point may be somewhat different (ie, starting with a team full of studs like the Colts or a bunch of duds like the Bengals) but fast forward 20 years into your career and everything is equal. it'll always be that way. there'll never be expansion, no crap empty cupboard team to leave your ready-made championship contender. stats won't go off on a tangent, it's not like 50 years into the future most teams in your universe will start utilizing the ground game more and then 30 years past that everyone will gravitate towards passing. you will always have the same teams in your division, and the divisions/conferences will always be set up the same way. you can't artificially manipulate the level of talent in your game - maybe you might want to simulate better meds resulting in longer careers and players peaking earlier. things always end up at the same point.

at least with a jack of all trades game if you get bored with a traditional MLB game you can start a different kind of game. you can play the game different ways. you can have what SkyDog did and create a custom quickstart for people to download. OOTP really is meant for MP leagues since it allows you to do so much that you can simulate almost any type of scenario.

and don't fall into the trap of thinking that just cuz Jim focuses on the game he wants to play that it's a A+ game and since OOTP dabbles in different types of baseball it's a B+ game. there aren't a ton of people around these parts that'll vouch for FOF as much as they used to. we've seen underneath the hood and the game doesn't hold up so well to close scrutiny. it's a good stat generator, that's all it is.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Seriously. And I think part of the problem may be that Markus and other dev's actually spend time thinking "well what if i don't listen to this guy, do i lose his sale?" or worse yet, actually cater to his request, instead of fixing the nuts and bolts of the game and making gameplay solid.

One thing to bear in mind is the actual development time required for different things, often 'time light' features with limited testing requirements will slip into a product because they're easy to knock in quickly during a period where you have limited time available.

For instance if I finish something at 4.30pm and am going home at 5 then there's no point me starting to analyse something in depth because I'll hardly have started looking at it before I stop - so I might knock in something small and relatively simplistic to implement (its these sort of periods which have caused the weird 'addiction ratings' to come into creation on the CM/FM PC save games amongst other things ).

This doesn't detract from other features or the games overall tuning simply because in the timescale available at that point anything done on them wouldn't be particularly effective anyway.

[AgustusM]

Marc

great to see you in this discussion, you probably have more to add than the rest of us combined.

now when is SI going to do an American football game? I would kill for that game with the SI interface and depth.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You do see the disconnect in that paragraph, right? And then we wonder why we get games with issues that never go away? Not singling you out of course, I imagine nearly all of us have bought at least a game or two knowing full well we were going to be disappointed in the end but we do tend to act as our own worst enemies as consumers at times.

The problem I think is that we've reached a tipping point where if we try to send that message by not buying we won't have ANY games left to buy. I'd rather have this flawed version of OOTP then nothing at this point.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Alan T

It is threads like this one that are exactly what I am saying is wrong with text sims:

The Official Bring Back OOTP Girlfriend/Wife Thread - OOTP Developments Forums

Why in the world would anyone want a single second spent on a feature like this when instead it could be used on cleaning up the AI or other various bugs.

I'm pretty sure the first post in that thread is sarcastic.

[AgustusM]

I know for me another big problem is lack of real rosters and teams. I have seen a number of new games that show promise but I am one of those people that is never going to be immersed in playing the Portland Dragons or whatever. I need real players and teams.

the two opportunities that seem most obvious are web based and even something open source - but again everything in that arena tends to go to the non pro teams.

I also think the idea of multiplayer deals with a lot of the AI issues, but has two major flaws:

1. the idiot anarchist who is more interested in ruining the league than adding to it. Yes a good commissioner can weed those people out, but not until after they have already traded all of their best players to your top competitor for nothing.

2. time - multiplayer leagues require a level of commitment I just don't have. My opportunity for playing time is more likely nothing for weeks at a time and then a nice 5 hour stretch when I get to play, that doesn't work very well in the multiplayer area.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I'm pretty sure the first post in that thread is sarcastic.

that is the way I read it as well, plus that is the kind of thread I avoid like the plague - nothing to be gained from that.

[AgustusM]

I am going to set a record here for dola posts, but this topic is the entire reason I even go to boards like FOFC.

another area of the sim sports arena that is disappointing is the big guys take on it.

two games I should have loved but didn't were head coach and front office manager.

they both strive to be my gaming nirvana combining accurate coaching GM simulation with modern graphics but they both come short for a few reasons:

* primarily graphics, which is just beyond me. Head Coach should look like modern Madden and Front Office Manager should look like modern 2k MLB game - instead they both look like those games 3-4 versions ago. This makes no sense to me, the company has already spent the money to code those graphics - why is it so hard to give the coach moders modern graphics. My guess is it is because those studios do not understand the genre and are only making a game to maximize revenue on their exclusive license (which by the way is what is really killing sports sims) They also don't seem to remember the history of the genre (Earl Weaver, Tony LaRussa, the Front Page games) that had the best available graphics at the time and a simulation, not a joystick game.

* overkill - what I want is a game that gives me the FOF/OOTP level of GM control with modern graphics - these games always feel the need to add something (again because they don't understand the genre) that doesn't add anything (like "push") or the need to practice, annoying e-mails from the owner and the like. The lack of customization kills me as well.

* interface - Head Coach was better this year and light years ahead of the complete crap that was the first iteration, but it sill isn't easy enough to navigate (which brings up another problem, these should be PC games with all the control a mouse and keyboard offers. Much of the problem is console controller problem.) Front Office does have a PC version, but it is just a ported console version so again you deal with console interface. Front Office is actually pretty fun to play, but the interface is work, not play.

In the end both of these games are agonizingly close. Head Coaches take on the draft and scouting was fantastic and the most fun I have ever had in that crucial area - Head Coach falls just short with agonizingly bad statistical results, limited graphics and horrific play calling (again the need to change the madden system that was already working) lack of audibles, and the biggest problem a complete abandonment of the product by EA after they decided the game was dead, but failed to realize that it died largely because of their marketing strategy which was off the charts bad.

Front Office Manager can't decide if it is a GM sim or a manager sim - you can't change the lineup before the game (apparently because you are the GM and not the manager) but you can then call for bunts, steals and pitching changes? that makes no sense. The aforementioned UI and the graphics further kill it and always make me go back to OOTP.

neither of these games was done well or marketed well, so they don't sell well and then the studios just decide the genre isn't worth their time and money. It might not be, I really don't know, but I suspect it is the half ass products and misguided marketing are more to blame.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I'd rather have this flawed version of OOTP then nothing at this point.

And I guess I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum. It might as well not exist for all the interest I have in it.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Anthony

me too. i rather a game with a lot of options (even if i never use 75% of them) and customization, not one guy's vision of what a game should be.

It's called Maximum Football.

[AgustusM]

screens like this make me drool - I absolutely love SI and what they have done with the genre. They have shown the potential both in terms of quality and profitably.

problem for me is I am just an ignorant American who has grown up playing baseball, football and basketball - I don't know anything about soccer, I don't follow soccer and I just am never going to spend the increasingly diminishing free time I have playing soccer. I really wish I did, because the game looks amazing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Out of curiosity, since things like push & pull have been discussed in the the thread already ... of that screenshot Augustus posted, are the three boxes (the "x"able ones) defaulted to the screen (pushed) or are they added manually by the user (pulled)? Note, I'm not kicking any dirt either since they're at least available, I'm just curious. Also, if you pull them up by choice, are those choices sticky; i.e. can you set those three info boxes to display each time you're in a match or do you have to turn them on each time you play a new match?

[DaddyTorgo]

jon - they're "pulled" by the user from a long list of available boxes that you can change on the go.

i'm not sure if they are sticky - i believe they are not, but to be honest I haven't used them enough to notice (i like to play windowed and they'd eat up a lot of space in windowed mode)

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Under widgets there is a list of boxes you can pull up. They are manually added. The choices are sticky, in that next match it remembers what you had open last match. You can open and close them during the match at will.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh - see there's Ronnie to help out. I didn't know they were sticky. Good shit.

[Mota]

I don't have the same issues with OOTP as many of you have. I'm currently wrapping up my 2015 season with my fictional league and loving it. I probably play about 1/4 of the games to get a good feel for my league / team. It's really nice to see some of my batters reach 300 homers, and some big milestones. I've also played enough to see a full turnaround of the minors, so guys that I drafted back in 2011 are making it through to the majors by 2015 (some guys much faster but this is more like the normal progress). This season has been a challenge as my #1 and #3 starter are both out for the season, and my #4 and #5 guys SUCK. I've had to call up one of my prized pitchers before he's ready, because he's the only guy that MIGHT be successful. I'm afraid that I may ruin him though. I'm also afraid for 2016 where a LOT of my players become arbitration eligible and will start wanting the big bucks. I don't really have that much open budget since my top players are all locked in. Looks like I may have to do some roster shuffling to be able to field a team.

I've already preordered OOTP10 and can't wait to see what Markus has planned for us next.

I won't even compare that experience to MLB Front Office Manager where just doing your 40 man roster was HELL because NOTHING is easily found, and EVERYTHING is hard to get to. I don't care if there's action graphics, there's nothing fun about that game.

[Dutch]

How big is the team that works on this soccer game?

[Anthony]

wow, that screenshot probably is gonna make me purchase the game. that's awesome! i think part of the reason why i couldn't ever get into CM/FM games was i didn't really know what was going on. now i have something that can visualize everything for me.

they really need to make an American football game. i would allow numerous programmers to penetrate my anus if that would entice them to create such a game.

[Buccaneer]

That's funny, my first reaction when I saw that screenshot was they finally reached 1995. It looks just like a soccer-version of Tom Landry Strategy Football, which I played the hell out of. But, I fully realize that there is a great engine and an immersive game behind those sprites.

[Anthony]

i don't ask for much, my bar is set pretty low.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

That's funny, my first reaction when I saw that screenshot was they finally reached 1995. It looks just like a soccer-version of Tom Landry Strategy Football, which I played the hell out of. But, I fully realize that there is a great engine and an immersive game behind those sprites.

Not only is there a great engine and immersive game behind those sprites, but one of the reasons why the game is so immersive speaks to another area where text sims still could use additional development. At the end of the day, my players in FOF are just an aggregate of numbers and statistics. The same can be said of those in BBCF and OOTP. I don't necessarily care about them. The players in FM are modeled to have some semblance of personality. They will respond differently to the way you treat them and to game situations. The system is still pretty rudimentary compared to real life, but there isn't anything comparable that I can see in console sports games. Somehow, that bit of personality I see in FM gets me to care about my players in a way that the mere calculation of numbers and presentation of ratings does not. Text sims seem like they could push this aspect of the genre much, much further.

[Buccaneer]

Oh I agree Ajax. Even though I do not play FM, I have long been a fan of the game and its development. FOF is the one game that has always lacked soul and immersiveness as a SP game and badly could use anything to push it. I would also agree that OOTP is similarly lacking but I make up for it in OOTP by playing with real, historical players (since baseball history is my thing) - giving it the connection that I desire in an alternate universe (where great players can do nothing, and third tier players become great). I don't really count the various college games where the connection is with the university/conference and not so much with the players since they come and go.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

The choices are sticky, in that next match it remembers what you had open last match.

Now that's something that gets a solid thumbs up from me.
Not that anybody really cares, but still ...

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

That's funny, my first reaction when I saw that screenshot was they finally reached 1995. It looks just like a soccer-version of Tom Landry Strategy Football, which I played the hell out of. But, I fully realize that there is a great engine and an immersive game behind those sprites.

Agree.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Dutch

How big is the team that works on this soccer game?

Not as big as a lot of people make out (we're a mid-sized studio not the behmoth that some people seem to think ).

The PC title has probably around 10-12 coders working on it* and the psp title has a whopping 2 1/2 (I'm off doing other things half the time ).

If OOTP etc. get enough consistent support over the coming years then I personally expect their user base to slowly grow until they can support additional developers and expand in a similar manner to happened with SI in our early days ...:I for one would love to see it happen, not least because I know how much effort and love go into making these games.

*Do bear in mind though that the game has been evolving for well over a decade now, with the vast majority of the team having been here for most of that time.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And I guess I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum. It might as well not exist for all the interest I have in it.

Which is reasonable, but that snuffs the possibility that Markus spends a version fixing the issues holding it back instead of trying to add marginal new features. It's $30 to pre-order, it's a pretty risk-free buy in.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

but that snuffs the possibility that Markus spends a version fixing the issues holding it back instead of trying to add marginal new features.

And history shows there's a better chance of pigs flying out of my ass than seeing that ever happen, so I don't recommend anyone hold their breath. I just believe your $30 is better spent on something for which there's a reasonable hope of improvement rather than hoping to see that particular unicorn. Your money of course, spend as you like, but I really do see it more as enabling than helping.

[Capital]

Originally Posted by sabotai

File -> Settings -> Interface tab. There's a option to "Run Steam when Windows starts" Uncheck that and you're all set.

Thank you for posting...I will try that when I get home from work tonight. I was getting frustrated to the point of uninstalling NBA2K9, which I really didn't want to do.

[Sgran]

I've only been playing OOTP for a few months now, but I like it a lot. Now that I've figured out how to put logos on the caps I'm in love with my fictional league. The funny thing is that the game is at once too hard and too easy at the same time. The last two seasons I've chalked up more than 120 wins (3 20-game winners, tripple crown), but I've yet to reach the World Series.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Sgran

I've only been playing OOTP for a few months now, but I like it a lot. Now that I've figured out how to put logos on the caps I'm in love with my fictional league. The funny thing is that the game is at once too hard and too easy at the same time. The last two seasons I've chalked up more than 120 wins (3 20-game winners, tripple crown), but I've yet to reach the World Series.

Maximum Football had this early on!

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I think text sims are running into the same problem that console sports games are having in recent years: the idea of simulating a sport down to the most detailed level is more fun than the actual reality of execution.

For example, I found it interesting that Mac broke the three core components of a sim into squad management, tactics, and motivation (essentially). Personally, I'm really only interested in squad management, which is all that early text sims really focused on. But of course because FM and other games have incorporated the latter two, everyone feels they are a necessity. The most frustrating part of any modern text sim, for me, is that I can often only succeed if I micro-manage the tactics. Yes, theoretically I can assign coaches to do that, but in most games it is ineffective or outright broken. So I end up frustrated because I just want to build up a squad of solid players through trades and drafting, but in the end I spend most of my time trying to decide what training player X should be doing given about 400 variables like his current fitness level and the position of the moon in relation to the starship enterprise.

But do you really think that if someone did everything right about component #1 (squad management), at a level well above what everyone else was doing, it wouldn't be successful? I'm in the same boat as you...I started playing FOF because I wanted to be the GM. I didn't want to gameplan and I didn't want to shuffle players around formations. Give me a god damn drafting/scouting mechanism that replicates how an NFL GM performs his job. Give me some presentation around the NFL Draft that makes it exciting. I forgot the name of the other sim that came out awhile back, as it went bust pretty quickly...but I do remember that the draft part of it at least looked outstanding and was fun to play through.

You're right...it's as if Jim (and others) acknowledged that they can't deliver on their promise of replicating what it's like to GM a team, so he just moved on to something else. It makes exactly zero sense that I pay millions for a coach, and he could be the best coach in the game, but I am stil responsible for developing my own game plan if I want the best opportunity to win.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Logan

But do you really think that if someone did everything right about component #1 (squad management), at a level well above what everyone else was doing, it wouldn't be successful? I'm in the same boat as you...I started playing FOF because I wanted to be the GM. I didn't want to gameplan and I didn't want to shuffle players around formations. Give me a god damn drafting/scouting mechanism that replicates how an NFL GM performs his job. Give me some presentation around the NFL Draft that makes it exciting. I forgot the name of the other sim that came out awhile back, as it went bust pretty quickly...but I do remember that the draft part of it at least looked outstanding and was fun to play through.

You're right...it's as if Jim (and others) acknowledged that they can't deliver on their promise of replicating what it's like to GM a team, so he just moved on to something else. It makes exactly zero sense that I pay millions for a coach, and he could be the best coach in the game, but I am stil responsible for developing my own game plan if I want the best opportunity to win.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. My thoughts exactly.

EDIT: But it's funny, I love to tweak things in FM. Not any other sim though, and I've tried most all of them.

[Big Fo]

Soccer managers have to build manage the squad and handle tactics on gameday unlike the setup at many teams in football and other North American sports, so it's not that big a deal to me in FM.

[Young Drachma]

I love FM, but I can't really deal with the way MLS works and so, if I can't tinker and create an American league that plays in Europe, then I don't really enjoy the game enough to stick with it.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Logan

But do you really think that if someone did everything right about component #1 (squad management), at a level well above what everyone else was doing, it wouldn't be successful?

I don't know if it would be successful or not. Clearly you and me would love it, but it seems like the developers have decided they either can't make it happen (as you said further on), or that it wouldn't be as popular as the road they've traveled instead.

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm in the same boat as you...I started playing FOF because I wanted to be the GM. I didn't want to gameplan and I didn't want to shuffle players around formations. Give me a god damn drafting/scouting mechanism that replicates how an NFL GM performs his job. Give me some presentation around the NFL Draft that makes it exciting. I forgot the name of the other sim that came out awhile back, as it went bust pretty quickly...but I do remember that the draft part of it at least looked outstanding and was fun to play through.

You're right...it's as if Jim (and others) acknowledged that they can't deliver on their promise of replicating what it's like to GM a team, so he just moved on to something else. It makes exactly zero sense that I pay millions for a coach, and he could be the best coach in the game, but I am stil responsible for developing my own game plan if I want the best opportunity to win.

I agree 100% with all of this. I want to feel like Brian Burke (or even BrianBurke), not Ron Wilson.

The one thing I should add is that while I don't really want to have to coach or deal with players at a low level, I do think there is a place for tactics and personality on a level more commensurate with what a GM would realistically encounter. For example, if I pick up a bunch of awesome offensive players, I probably want a coach that will instill an offensive system and use those guys in appropriate ways. So it makes sense to have some broad tactical qualities associated with a coach that I can rely on to make decisions about how my coach will fit with my players. And personalities can play a role as well, a la Sean Avery or Terrel Owens or something. So I don't mind if I'm hearing reports that my coach and player X are clashing, that makes sense. But I don't want to have to be making the decisions that the coach is making that the player doesn't like. If that makes sense.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Would you have a more solid game if focused solely on the GM aspect? Probably, since it's easier to hit one mark than two.

But I don't believe a strict realistic GM function game, even one that border on orgasmically perfect, would move nearly as many copies as one that integrates coaching elements even at the expense of getting either as right as possible.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And history shows there's a better chance of pigs flying out of my ass than seeing that ever happen, so I don't recommend anyone hold their breath. I just believe your $30 is better spent on something for which there's a reasonable hope of improvement rather than hoping to see that particular unicorn. Your money of course, spend as you like, but I really do see it more as enabling than helping.

This is a moment of porcine beauty I look forward to with baited breath

On a more serious note its been proven that people tend to purchase products because of new features rather than 'improvements' - this is one of the reasons why you see washing up commercials saying "now with extra 'x'" or "now with added 'y'" .... rather than simply indicating that it works better than before.

I know Markus strives very hard not just to add in new features but also to continually improve the entire games engine, no its not perfect - but as with my games I'm sure thats the target he's aiming for ...

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by path12

EDIT: But it's funny, I love to tweak things in FM. Not any other sim though, and I've tried most all of them.

Just to ask an interested question - but do you think one of the reasons is purely down to the different sports involved?

I've always thought that Soccer suits management games to a 't' - there is just the right balance of tactics and in-game events versus influence from the manager during the game to suit the genre.

Many other sports also have decent balance for such sims but also have slight drawbacks (ie. huge number of games during a season, intricate tactics used throughout match leading to excessive match duration if simmed with user doing tactical decisions etc.) and its the way developers adjust to these which makes or breaks sims in those sports imho.

[Epi_862]

Originally Posted by Logan

But do you really think that if someone did everything right about component #1 (squad management), at a level well above what everyone else was doing, it wouldn't be successful? I'm in the same boat as you...I started playing FOF because I wanted to be the GM. I didn't want to gameplan and I didn't want to shuffle players around formations. Give me a god damn drafting/scouting mechanism that replicates how an NFL GM performs his job. Give me some presentation around the NFL Draft that makes it exciting. I forgot the name of the other sim that came out awhile back, as it went bust pretty quickly...but I do remember that the draft part of it at least looked outstanding and was fun to play through.

You're right...it's as if Jim (and others) acknowledged that they can't deliver on their promise of replicating what it's like to GM a team, so he just moved on to something else. It makes exactly zero sense that I pay millions for a coach, and he could be the best coach in the game, but I am stil responsible for developing my own game plan if I want the best opportunity to win.

I'm with you 100% on FOF. Even tho i'd go further, and add a general mentality setting to the GM's job. For example, Run heavy, backfield committee, light blitzing defence. I hire a coach that fits the style, and he makes the playcall. I never understood how setting a certain formation and playtype on a certain down, with the marginal of one goddamn percent, relates to football management or coaching.

Oh, and if Jim would've hired a talented graphic designer-to-be from a nearby college, and paid him some decent money to work on FOF so it looks like a 21 century game, he probably would've broken the reviewing barrier on a couple of bigger sites. And that would correlate to sales. Lot of you, in my view, overcomplicate the issue at hand - no single change in mechanics or mentality will lift text-sim genre up. Text-sims in general just fell behind the times.

And i'd also like to add, that i fucking hate soccer. Hate it. But i've never played any game as much as the newest WWSM. It's that good.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Epi_862

Oh, and if Jim would've hired a talented graphic designer-to-be from a nearby college, and paid him some decent money to work on FOF so it looks like a 21 century game, he probably would've broken the reviewing barrier on a couple of bigger sites.

In other words, spend more on eye candy than the game would generate in additional sales (and quite possibly on sales period, never mind additional).
Correlate to sales yes. Justify the expense, not damned likely.

Text-sims in general just fell behind the times.

They're called text sims for a reason folks.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Not as big as a lot of people make out (we're a mid-sized studio not the behmoth that some people seem to think ).

The PC title has probably around 10-12 coders working on it ).

My heart bleeds for you

[RichW]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Seriously. And I think part of the problem may be that Markus and other dev's actually spend time thinking "well what if i don't listen to this guy, do i lose his sale?" or worse yet, actually cater to his request, instead of fixing the nuts and bolts of the game and making gameplay solid.

This was a joke thread. It's obvious from the first post. Some people take themselves far too seriously.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Just to ask an interested question - but do you think one of the reasons is purely down to the different sports involved?

I've always thought that Soccer suits management games to a 't' - there is just the right balance of tactics and in-game events versus influence from the manager during the game to suit the genre.

Many other sports also have decent balance for such sims but also have slight drawbacks (ie. huge number of games during a season, intricate tactics used throughout match leading to excessive match duration if simmed with user doing tactical decisions etc.) and its the way developers adjust to these which makes or breaks sims in those sports imho.

I think it's partly that soccer does lend itself well to this sort of game.

It's also the fact of how FM lets me adjust things. Even though I know soccer tactics less well than say American football, if I want to have my DC who has good ratings in passing and creativity, all I need to do is tick the "Try through balls" slider.

Whereas if I wanted to adjust my blitzing linebackers in FOF I've got to figure out what % number I want for each of my LB's, and then make sure that transfers to various formations and situations as well as make sure the depth chart has him in. It turns into a math exercise, and a tedious one at that. I don't want to figure %'s, I just want my blitzing SLB to be in during the proper situations and to increase his overall utility, or to be able to easily specify when I want my one-skill players to be in the game and doing that one thing they do best..

It's the same with gameplanning. In FOF I use either the AI suggestion or just copy the ones that Ben put together depending on what kind of offense I want to use. FM lets me do that, especially with the tactic builder that that one site put out this year -- I downloaded all those and can customize them to my team fairly quickly.

FM still could do some things better such as allow you to stick certain tactics to certain players -- if my DC with a 3 crossing needs to play DL or DR for some reason I still don't want him to cross the damn ball and don't like having to go in and tweak that. And I'd still like to get some better ideas of how to put set-pieces and such together, but all in all it's easier to get my overall views of how I want my team to play put together than it does in FOF, BBCF, OOTP etc.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by path12

Whereas if I wanted to adjust my blitzing linebackers in FOF I've got to figure out what % number I want for each of my LB's, and then make sure that transfers to various formations and situations as well as make sure the depth chart has him in. It turns into a math exercise, and a tedious one at that. I don't want to figure %'s, I just want my blitzing SLB to be in during the proper situations and to increase his overall utility, or to be able to easily specify when I want my one-skill players to be in the game and doing that one thing they do best..

This is another plus for FBCB. I decide what defense(s) to let the team play, what pace to use, how often to send up 3s, how often to press, trap, double, and how much motion to use, all on a 1-10 scale. And I'm done. In a football sim, let me nudge a slider between "run a lot" and "pass a lot", another slider between "blitz" and "play coverage", another one for "zone" vs "man-2-man", another for "run inside" vs "run outside", another for "short pass" vs "long pass" (or maybe a single one that is run->short pass -> long pass), another for "how quickly to go aggressive when losing", and a final one for "how quickly to go conservative when winning". A selection for 3-4 or 4-3 on defense, with the caveat that the 3-4 should correctly mix up the rushing packages, not ALWAYS rush the WLB for crying out loud. Maybe a selection for preferred offensive formations (standard pro set, single-back/2TE, single-back/3WR). One stupid screen, and that's it. That should be plenty for a GM sim while giving us enough flexibility to build our team to a specific style of play. Don't make me wade through pages of options that don't have obvious effects or often have unintended effects.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by path12

It's the same with gameplanning. In FOF I use either the AI suggestion...

And I still don't get how we're on version 6.2 and there is not a single "Recommend" button, but instead I have to step through each screen individually...

[lynchjm24]

I went to the OOTP X forum for the first time in 4 days. There have only been 16 threads that have a new post. One of the more active threads is about some guy who uses Windows 98. Based on the message board, interest is low.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I went to the OOTP X forum for the first time in 4 days. There have only been 16 threads that have a new post. One of the more active threads is about some guy who uses Windows 98. Based on the message board, interest is low.

I think there's a fair amount of interest in OOTP-X, however with all games before the game itself is released there's only so much people can chat about concerning it really to be honest.

(think of it like he 'lull before the storm' )

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I think there's a fair amount of interest in OOTP-X, however with all games before the game itself is released there's only so much people can chat about concerning it really to be honest.

(think of it like he 'lull before the storm' )

Maybe, but compared to the interest before Version 6 or the first SI version it's a tiny fraction.

[DaddyTorgo]

Hey Marc - question I thought of earlier: Why do you SI guys release a data-update at the transfer window encompassing moves done during the year and then give players the ability to start back at the beginning of the season with inaccurate rosters? I understand why "joystick-jockey" games make the choice to do that (as much as I abhor it), but I don't understand why you all do that with FM?