Eli Manning doesn't want to go to San Diego

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I have to say, though, it really stinks. If this were anyone but a Manning, wouldn't most of the posters rooting for him to be blackballed from the NFL? I can't see this as anything but a powerplay by the Manning family because they know they have more power by virtue of their name than any other recruit.

I think you're dead on. But I don't see anything wrong with them leveraging what little power they have at the end of the day, to make a better situation for themselves. In this case, I agree with Mike Wilbon on PTI yesterday. He's going to exert what influence he has to have his kid play someplace where he thinks is better for him.

Eli isn't going to say anything, to ensure he doesn't appear like a spoiled brat or something. He'll just smile, produce and say nothing. But its not like it has to work out like they want it to. It's just consensus that it would probably be better for the Chargers, if they went along with it in the long run.

[cthomer5000]

ESPN Insider article. some interesting stuff

GM Smith chose wrong course of action>>

By Scouts, Inc. For ESPN Insider>>

Friday, April 23 Updated: April 23 12:47 PM ET >>

It's difficult to point the finger at one person for the mess that has occurred between the Chargers and the Manning family, but this all could have been avoided had Chargers GM A.J. Smith played his cards right. After all, the Chargers are the ones who contacted the Mannings regarding Archie's visit to San Diego. >>

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Manning>>


After meeting with the Chargers' owners, with Smith and with coach Marty Schottenheimer, Archie got the strong feeling that the San Diego organization had no direction. Whether he was right or wrong, Archie felt Smith was in over his head and Schottenheimer's days were numbered. After going through a similar situation with the New Orleans Saints during his playing days, Archie decided to quietly let the Chargers know that he and his son would prefer the team make a trade and not draft Eli. >>

Archie has never been a meddling father, and what has transpired since Wednesday night is the last thing he wanted to occur. He told the Chargers he wanted to keep his preference between the two parties. If Smith had been smart about the situation, that's exactly how he would have handled it. >>

Rivers>>


At that point, Smith could have contacted the Giants and told them the Chargers' organization had a terrific meeting with Archie and would feel comfortable drafting Eli as their franchise quarterback for the future. But, his story could have gone, because they have so many needs as a team they would prefer to move down, acquire picks and draft a quarterback -- such as N.C. State's Philip Rivers -- a few picks later. >>

Instead, by making Archie's preference public, Smith not only created a feud between the Chargers and the Mannings, he also lost leverage in any potential deal with the Giants. >>

Once Giants GM Ernie Accorsi caught wind of the situation, he did what any shrewd GM -- or any businessman at all, for that matter -- would do: He expressed a lack of interest in making a trade. Accorsi worked the phones and made sure the media delivered the message to the Chargers that the Giants' personnel department called an emergency meeting to go back over the film of Miami of Ohio QB Ben Roethlisberger. >>

While we don't doubt the team had an emergency meeting last night to talk about its options, there is no way at this point in the scouting process the Giants would need to look at any more film of Roethlisberger. The Giants have known all along there was a possibility they would not get a deal done to move up for Manning, so they know everything there is to know about Roethlisberger. >>

This was simply a tactic by Accorsi to let the Chargers know the Giants had a plan in place to keep the No. 4 pick, and if the Chargers wanted to make a trade, they would have to be willing to do a less-favorable deal than the one the two organizations had discussed previously. >>

The general consensus around the league is the Chargers now have two options, neither of which is to draft Manning with the first pick. >>

Their first and best option is to still get a deal done with the Giants to trade down, which we think will still happen. The problem, however, is that since they've lost so much of their leverage, they are not likely to get as good a deal as they would have before this mess broke. Instead of getting a second-round pick and WR Ike Hilliard, they might have to settle for a third-round pick and Hilliard -- or something similar. >>

The Chargers' only other option as we see it is to keep the pick and draft OT Robert Gallery. While they were planning on drafting Rivers with the fourth pick if they got a deal done, they can't rationalize taking Rivers No. 1 overall. This would obviously be a last-case scenario, but at this point it's not out of the question. >>

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Eli isn't going to say anything, to ensure he doesn't appear like a spoiled brat or something. He'll just smile, produce and say nothing. But its not like it has to work out like they want it to. It's just consensus that it would probably be better for the Chargers, if they went along with it in the long run.

Eli was on WFAN this morning with Mac and Sid. They finally put the audio archive up on their website.

hxxp://wfan.com/breaknewsaudio/

Good listen, and it reveals alot about what kind of punk Eli is.

[dawgfan]

I've worked with Peyton Manning and met Archie a couple of times and read their book, so I'm somewhat biased by this experience. That said, because of the impressions I've gotten from being around both and reading their story, I'm inclined to give Eli some slack here.

Let's be honest about the draft for a moment - it forces players to teams they may have no interest in playing for. Until they reach free agency they have no say over where they get to play, unless they do what Eli is doing and what John Elway threatened to do. Yes, they make extremely good money regardless, but this is their careers they're considering. Why shouldn't they have the right to exert some control over that?

In Elway's case, I think it's easier to sympathise with Colts fans as it was obvious Elway was the best player in the draft; with Eli, it's not so clear-cut. Some think Roethlisberger is a better QB, some think Gallery is a better player period. It's not like the Chargers have made it clear they wanted Eli all along - unlike the Bengals with Carson Palmer, the Chargers have, at least publicly, shown a willingness to entertain multiple possibilities.

I think the reason the Bolts went public with the Manning's demands were at least partly as a PR move to cover themselves for not wanting to pick him anyway. It may cost them in leverage in trading down, but not that much - from reports I've seen the Giants aren't the only ones trying to trade up to #1.

As far as personal experience goes, both Peyton and Archie come across as extremely nice, no B.S. guys. I have a lot of respect for how both conduct themselves and I have some sympathy for how Archie's career turned out and the obvious effect it had on him and his sons with their careers.

Some would like to paint them as overbearing egotistical jerks in the same manner as the Winslows, but I think that's an unfair comparison. Eli has the right to sit out a year if he chooses, and if he feels that strongly about not playing for San Diego why shouldn't he use the only leverage he has? Would any of you in a similar situation not do the same thing? Money is not everything, and if you were in a similar position you'd also want to do what you can to land in a job you prefer, or at least don't dread.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I have a lot of respect for how both conduct themselves and I have some sympathy for how Archie's career turned out and the obvious effect it had on him and his sons with their careers.

I don't see what that has to do with anything. Archie had a long productive career. He should be man enough to let his kids make their own future regardless of what crappy teams he played on. If Eli has a problem with SD, let Eli do the talking.

[WSUCougar]

Points taken, dawgfan, but what rubs me about it is the audacity - I don't know how else to label it - to leverage the rules that govern entry into the NFL. What it amounts to is the pre-draft version of a holdout. To me, it states "I am above the system."

Put another way, what player coming out of college would really want to play for San Diego? Or Arizona? Or whatever crappy team you want to add to the list. I'm sure every player in the draft has their wish list of where they want to go, and teams that scare the hell out of them. Yet all 220+ players are bound by the draft rules, and are stuck with who drafts them.

In my opinion, a team should retain a player's rights indefinitely if they burn a draft pick on them. If a player doesn't want to play for that team, then let them sit until they get traded. Otherwise, a potentially-vast unfair advantage exists.

[SirFozzie]

it'd get nailed for restraint of trade so fast it'd make your head spin.

Remember baseball's reserve clause?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

In my opinion, a team should retain a player's rights indefinitely if they burn a draft pick on them. If a player doesn't want to play for that team, then let them sit until they get traded. Otherwise, a potentially-vast unfair advantage exists.

aren't we overreacting a bit here? How often has this actually happened? Bo Jackson is the last example I can think of... 20 years go! Missing a year of NFL salary is such a deturrent that no one ever pulls this crap. Still, it's definitely their right to.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I've worked with Peyton Manning and met Archie a couple of times and read their book, so I'm somewhat biased by this experience. That said, because of the impressions I've gotten from being around both and reading their story, I'm inclined to give Eli some slack here.

Let's be honest about the draft for a moment - it forces players to teams they may have no interest in playing for. Until they reach free agency they have no say over where they get to play, unless they do what Eli is doing and what John Elway threatened to do. Yes, they make extremely good money regardless, but this is their careers they're considering. Why shouldn't they have the right to exert some control over that?

In Elway's case, I think it's easier to sympathise with Colts fans as it was obvious Elway was the best player in the draft; with Eli, it's not so clear-cut. Some think Roethlisberger is a better QB, some think Gallery is a better player period. It's not like the Chargers have made it clear they wanted Eli all along - unlike the Bengals with Carson Palmer, the Chargers have, at least publicly, shown a willingness to entertain multiple possibilities.

I think the reason the Bolts went public with the Manning's demands were at least partly as a PR move to cover themselves for not wanting to pick him anyway. It may cost them in leverage in trading down, but not that much - from reports I've seen the Giants aren't the only ones trying to trade up to #1.

As far as personal experience goes, both Peyton and Archie come across as extremely nice, no B.S. guys. I have a lot of respect for how both conduct themselves and I have some sympathy for how Archie's career turned out and the obvious effect it had on him and his sons with their careers.

Some would like to paint them as overbearing egotistical jerks in the same manner as the Winslows, but I think that's an unfair comparison. Eli has the right to sit out a year if he chooses, and if he feels that strongly about not playing for San Diego why shouldn't he use the only leverage he has? Would any of you in a similar situation not do the same thing? Money is not everything, and if you were in a similar position you'd also want to do what you can to land in a job you prefer, or at least don't dread.

Well said. Many a football fan supports idiocies like the NCAA or even the draft because it provides you with entertainment, and are willing to ignore people's rights for it.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Points taken, dawgfan, but what rubs me about it is the audacity - I don't know how else to label it - to leverage the rules that govern entry into the NFL. What it amounts to is the pre-draft version of a holdout. To me, it states "I am above the system."

Put another way, what player coming out of college would really want to play for San Diego? Or Arizona? Or whatever crappy team you want to add to the list. I'm sure every player in the draft has their wish list of where they want to go, and teams that scare the hell out of them. Yet all 220+ players are bound by the draft rules, and are stuck with who drafts them.

In my opinion, a team should retain a player's rights indefinitely if they burn a draft pick on them. If a player doesn't want to play for that team, then let them sit until they get traded. Otherwise, a potentially-vast unfair advantage exists.

The point is, inherently, forcing someone to go to a location they don't want is the kind of thing that couldn't be pulled anywhere else. I accept the draft as a neccessity in pro sports, but why can't we acknowledge the blatant unfairness in the system ?

[WSUCougar]

In my opinion, you're making a case based on the rights of the individuals coming into the league, which is fine on a philosophical level. However, the league is driven by certain constraints of competition. Without the draft, theoretically no one would ever go to the crappy teams.

Eli Manning knew all this going in. The NFL holds a draft and the team that drafts you gets your rights. It's not an oppressive regime...it's an elite, competitive pro football league where the lesser teams rebuild by getting the first cracks at the best players.

Why should one individual get to dictate otherwise?

[dawgfan]

I can understand both sides to this issue; for the sake of competitive balance and the good of the league, the draft is a necessary component of allocating talent evenly. On the other hand, I can empathize with the individual that feels unfairly constrained in his career choices.

I think the system works fine as it is; for 99.9% of the draftees, they accept the system and the NFL gets the benefit of maintaining some parity. For those that feel strongly enough about their situations, they have the right to sit out the draft and try again the next year.

The thing that gets me about this particular case is that there hasn't seemed to be a lot of evidence that San Diego was sold on Eli in the first place, so why should it upset so many people that he doesn't want to play there? Assuming San Diego is OK with trading down and getting Gallery or Roethlisberger or whoever else they like plus extra picks and/or players, who is Eli really hurting?

[WSUCougar]

I've followed the draft lead-up pretty closely. Over the past few weeks there has been ample press and sentiment that Manning was likely to be the top pick. San Diego's issues are wrapped up in Post Ryan Leaf Gun-shy Syndrome, plus an obvious need to get better at several positions rather than taking "just" a franchise quarterback. Therefore, the likelihood of trading down became greater. The Giants emerged as the leader in that sweepstakes, with a clear desire to grab Manning at #1. All talk swirled around Manning. Rothlisberger began to fade...Rivers' stock rose...Gallery remained a viable option at the very top of the draft...the WRs were all in the mix. But Manning seemed to have edged out the rest as the #1 in most people's minds.

Archie comes in and tells the Chargers the bad news. The apparent #1 guy just tells you he will not play with your team. Sure, the Chargers were more than likely not to end up with him anyway, but the leverage damage that does is significant.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Archie comes in and tells the Chargers the bad news. The apparent #1 guy just tells you he will not play with your team. Sure, the Chargers were more than likely not to end up with him anyway, but the leverage damage that does is significant.

Well, it was the Chargers' choice to leak that news. For all the Giants needed to know, the Chargers were simply looking to move down and gain extra picks and players.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Well, it was the Chargers' choice to leak that news. For all the Giants needed to know, the Chargers were simply looking to move down and gain extra picks and players.

Yeah, that's a hard move to understand. I think their management may be trying to cover too many bases (i.e., giving a public reason why Manning spurned them in the event he's another superstar that they end up passing on).

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Yeah, that's a hard move to understand. I think their management may be trying to cover too many bases (i.e., giving a public reason why Manning spurned them in the event he's another superstar that they end up passing on).

I genuinely believe that is the case. But it makes me wonder if they somehow didn't forsee how it would kill their leverage.

[WSUCougar]

Well, at the end of the day (or their 15 minutes tomorrow), they still know that Manning is a hot item, and teams will pay to move up and get him. At least I think so.

[judicial clerk]

I would give the Chargers the No. 2 pick for LaDanian. Then they could get gallery and Rivers.

[bhlloy]

I cannot believe an NFL front office are really that stupid (well apart from the Bengals maybe) I don't think it kills their leverage with NY either because NY still has to get above Oakland to make sure they get one of the 2 guys they are rumoured to really want. I still the think the first 3 guys are absolute locks no matter which order and to which team they go to.

My take on the situation is that the Chargers are happy with taking Gallery (or Roethlisberger or Fitzgerald) at number 1 and the Giants aren't that desperate to take Manning or Gallery as rumoured. So... the Chargers know they have no leverage with the Giants left, and no desire to trade down further, so why not make the Mannings comments public? Gives them a reason to take the player they really want at number 1 and not Eli, and to boot they're probably pissed at Archie and Eli for putting them down and want to make them look like the bad guys.

[stkelly52]

Just curious, what do you think Eli's value would be if he does sit out a year? I question if he will be a top 5 pick if he sits out.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by stkelly52

Just curious, what do you think Eli's value would be if he does sit out a year? I question if he will be a top 5 pick if he sits out.

Yeah, but I don't think the money matters to him - so the point is moot really. All he wants to do it play where he wants. He'll only be losing money on his rookie contract.

[Anthony]

i say the NFL should implement a rule where if a player drafted in the 1st round refuses to play with the team that drafted him and sits out a year, the following year the team gets a compensatory draft pick (between the 1st and 2nd rounds) and the player can not be drafted any higher than the 2nd round, where he'll make a crap load less money.

and don't give me this crap about money not meaning anything to Eli. i'm not saying he's money hungry, but if he eventually plays for a team and excels - why would he want to be paid less than what he's really worth? Clinton Portis couldn't handle that and he forced a trade. don't see why Eli would be any different.

i also wouldn't be drafting QB's in the 1st round when in this day and age you can win Super Bowls with guys drafted after the 3rd round. that's just me.

the Chargers have to take him. no way they can have any pride not getting Peyton Manning, Michael Vick and Eli Manning - 3 franchise QB's - all within the span of a decade.

[ISiddiqui]

Let's be honest about the draft for a moment - it forces players to teams they may have no interest in playing for. Until they reach free agency they have no say over where they get to play, unless they do what Eli is doing and what John Elway threatened to do. Yes, they make extremely good money regardless, but this is their careers they're considering. Why shouldn't they have the right to exert some control over that?

And what's wrong with that? The whole point of the draft is to reorder the talent. To help the bad teams out. We COULD go to a English soccer model where the rich can stay rich by signing and buying the best talent and the poor teams can go get bent, but we have decided against that (mostly because it costs much more for a US franchise and there is no relegation/promotion).

[ISiddiqui]

Ooooh... they took Eli! HAHAHA!

[clintl]

Has it occurred to anyone that the idiotic way the Chargers have handled the situation pretty much proves Archie Manning is right about that organization? I don't blame the Mannings one bit for how this has gone down. If I were in their situation, I would do the same thing.

[MizzouRah]

I think they handled it quite fine.

What a fake smile!!


Todd

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i say the NFL should implement a rule where if a player drafted in the 1st round refuses to play with the team that drafted him and sits out a year, the following year the team gets a compensatory draft pick (between the 1st and 2nd rounds) and the player can not be drafted any higher than the 2nd round, where he'll make a crap load less money.

and don't give me this crap about money not meaning anything to Eli. i'm not saying he's money hungry, but if he eventually plays for a team and excels - why would he want to be paid less than what he's really worth? Clinton Portis couldn't handle that and he forced a trade. don't see why Eli would be any different.

i also wouldn't be drafting QB's in the 1st round when in this day and age you can win Super Bowls with guys drafted after the 3rd round. that's just me.

the Chargers have to take him. no way they can have any pride not getting Peyton Manning, Michael Vick and Eli Manning - 3 franchise QB's - all within the span of a decade.

I love this post, HA. It's a great solution to the problem.

I just don't buy the view that the Mannings are in the right here. They want to enter the league, they have to play by the rules. The only reason more people don't try to dictate terms is that they don't think they will have the leverage to pull it off.

Now it's time to go find some batteries. I think the Braves and JD Drew pay a visit to KC this season...

SI