Plane hits a building in Austin

[MJ4H]

Personally, I'm not reading jack shit from this guy.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Well, after finding out that the house Stack burned down was less than a mile from where we live, I grabbed my camera and took pictures.

You guys must live right near Bill Harris, do you see a son and father unicycling in your neighborhood?

[cartman]

This reports seems to indicate that the wife and step-daughter were in the house and were saved by firefighters. This also reports that the Georgetown airport (general aviation only) is on lockdown as they suspect that he rigged a bomb to the car he left at the airport.

http://www.wfaa.com/home/Plane-crash...-84705312.html

[GrantDawg]

There is definitely going to be more to this story. The blog left behind wasn't exactly the ravings of an insane man (though he obviously was by his actions), and it makes me think he was hiding something by burning down the house before he left. Why would you burn your family's home when you are already depriving them of yourself? There is going to be something else going on with this guy.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

There is definitely going to be more to this story. The blog left behind wasn't exactly the ravings of an insane man (though he obviously was by his actions), and it makes me think he was hiding something by burning down the house before he left. Why would you burn your family's home when you are already depriving them of yourself? There is going to be something else going on with this guy.

well, his two most valuable possessions that could be seized by the IRS were probably the house and plane.

[molson]

I wonder what role his wife and daughter had in the I.R.S's conspiracy to ruin him.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by cartman

This reports seems to indicate that the wife and step-daughter were in the house and were saved by firefighters. This also reports that the Georgetown airport (general aviation only) is on lockdown as they suspect that he rigged a bomb to the car he left at the airport.

http://www.wfaa.com/home/Plane-crash...-84705312.html

You posted this as I posted. So he was trying to take them out with him? That makes a little more crazy sense.

[Karlifornia]

I wanna see this guy's stupid face, just so I can look at it and feel superior.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I wanna see this guy's stupid face, just so I can look at it and feel superior.

according to the Austin American-Statesman:

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by cartman

according to the Austin American-Statesman:

Nice hat, jackass.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by cartman

according to the Austin American-Statesman:

Loved you in Raiders, Colonel.

[Karlifornia]

So, did anyone else die, or was it just him?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

So, did anyone else die, or was it just him?

Nothing confirmed yet. Supposedly there is still one person unaccounted for and several people in area hospitals, and one person with severe burns was sent to the military hospital in San Antonio.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

So, did anyone else die, or was it just him?

They have now announced they've pulled two bodies from the building, but haven't identified who they are.

[cartman]

triple dola,

This didn't take long. Someone came up with a Cliff notes version of the manifesto.

Rimbosity

[MJ4H]

Well at least he is getting the audience he craved.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by cartman

triple dola,

This didn't take long. Someone came up with a Cliff notes version of the manifesto.

Rimbosity

That was pretty good

SI

[molson]

Wesley Snipes (who not only didn't pay taxes, but fraudlently claimed more than $11 million in tax refunds) can relate:

WASHINGTON – - Actor Wesley Snipes, who has tax problems of his own, had a blunt reaction to news about a software engineer who crashed his plane into an office building with nearly 200 IRS employees inside.

In an interview with the Associated Press, Snipes asked, "What's new?"

Authorities say A. Joseph Stack, who was furious with the Internal Revenue Service, crashed his plane into an Austin, Texas, building on Thursday.

Snipes said tax problems have been an issue in the U.S. from the very beginning.

As the actor put it: "I think it was an issue even for the early colonists and the British, so what's new?"

Snipes, 47, was convicted in 2008 of not paying taxes for three years. He was sentenced to three years in prison. He is appealing.

[Noop]

I read his screed and I agree with most of what he said.

I have for a while thought that Americans are not citizens but consumers and customers. We are sold bullshit every single day and we gladly buy it because someone told us too. I think people like Joe Stack will start becoming the normal because people are generally fed up with the bullshit.

[MJ4H]

good ole joe stack!

[molson]

I love how a criminal/deadbeat/general life failure can get all pissed off about sucking at life so much, that he can write a manifesto, throw in a couple of brainless/generic anti-government/corporation stuff and suddenly be admired by many in America (even after trying to kill a bunch of people - which he also, not surprisingly, failed at)

USA! USA!

Edit: I'm as anti-government as anyone on this board, but that really isn't what this guy is about. If he was a better tax criminal, he'd have no problem with the government, or corporations. He sucked at, so they're the villains.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by molson

I love how a criminal/deadbeat/general life failure can get all pissed off about sucking at life so much, that he can write a manifesto, throw in a couple of brainless/generic anti-government/corporation stuff and suddenly be admired by many in America (even after trying to kill a bunch of people - which he also, not surprisingly, failed at)

USA! USA!

+1 I'm a little put-off by all this.

[jeff061]

This guy clearly had more issues going on in his life other than taxes. Whether these are mental or actual tangible problems, who knows. But if it wasn't taxes he would still have offed himself and find something else other than himself to blame.

Wanting to be viewed as a martyr and remembered was likely the main motivation behind posting his little article. And it worked. I'm kind of surprised actually. I read his rambling before I read people's opinions on it. It just looked like attention whoring too me.

Newsflash, no one likes paying taxes. If you spend a decade looking for loopholes you should be prepared to deal with any consequences.

[molson]

It's not unlike a serial-killing child molester blaming "society" for his actions.

[Noop]

Wow. Hell of a connection there chief.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Noop

Wow. Hell of a connection there chief.

You don't see the connection because you apparently view his manifesto as real groundbreaking, intelligent stuff.

But it's not - it's garbage. Any 3rd-grader could have written it. These are not creative ideas, these are not ideas worthy of praise and admiration. There's 6 billion bloggers out there you can read who make similar points, but much more coherently. (and as a bonus, they're not even tax-cheating murderers).

[cartman]

I mean, the taxes were such an overwhelming burden on him he was able to buy a plane.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by molson

You don't see the connection because you apparently view his manifesto as real groundbreaking, intelligent stuff.

But it's not - it's garbage. Any 3rd-grader could have written it.

Negative. However if you want to continue making your "connections" feel free.

Also no 3rd grader would have written that so try again buddy.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

I love how a criminal/deadbeat/general life failure can get all pissed off about sucking at life so much, that he can write a manifesto, throw in a couple of brainless/generic anti-government/corporation stuff and suddenly be admired by many in America (even after trying to kill a bunch of people - which he also, not surprisingly, failed at)

USA! USA!

Edit: I'm as anti-government as anyone on this board, but that really isn't what this guy is about. If he was a better tax criminal, he'd have no problem with the government, or corporations. He sucked at, so they're the villains.

Really? This sounds like a lot more of intellectual climate of "either yer wit' us or yer agin' us". I don't see anyone saying "yeah, he was right to fly his plane into a building" or "damn the man, I hope more people fly planes into buildings". It doesn't make him a hero or not a tax criminal or attempted murderer.

But that doesn't mean we can't look at his statements and agree with what he said. Yes, the only reason we saw this nutjob's "manifesto" is because of what he did. But it's a pretty easy intellectual pivot to look at what was said and divorce it from an obviously disturbed guy.

You know what- I don't think it's a bad thing if we try to look at Hitler's motivations or Osama Bin Laden's or anyone else's. It's still just a thought exercise and maybe if we understand why someone does something, we can prevent a future tragedy. Or maybe we could just try to understand how a mentally unbalanced person turns into a monster.

Yes, there's an ethical dilemma because you are "giving him what he wants" but I'm pretty sure someone in Podunkton, Kansas or Richmond, Virginia or whatever, examining his screed on a message board wasn't exactly the press this guy envisioned.

But to just sit there and slam everyone for the possibility of examining it? It sounds more like the feigned jingoism of a few years ago that was intellectually lazy at best and 1984-level intellectually dangerous and damning at worst. We're talking about the points, the source be damned.

Don't like it? There's gotta be a celebrity or athlete to go fill your time talking about? I'm sure the world could use another 5 minutes discussing Tiger Woods' infidelity.

SI

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by cartman

I mean, the taxes were such an overwhelming burden on him he was able to buy a plane.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Noop

Negative. However if you want to continue making your "connections" feel free.

Also no 3rd grader would have written that so try again buddy.

I'm not sure what connection you're talking about.

If it's a connection between my post and your post, I wasn't responding to you directly, but this sentiment of admiration for this guy throughout this thread and elsewhere.

If it's my child molester comment - I think my comment was right on. I've worked with a lot of criminals and the common thread is that they believe someone else is to blame for their actions. Sometimes it's "government", sometimes it's "corporations", sometimes it's "society", a lot of times its the victim - but it's always someone else's fault. When it's violent criminals, we see this, but when it's white collar criminals - it's a little tougher to identify, because they share their "villains" with a lot of regular people.

This guy is just a criminal blaming someone else, and because it's the I.R.S he blames instead of his wife that he beats the shit out of - people admire him.

[Noop]

Molson, you'd make for a hell of a boxer with that reach pal.

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Really? This sounds like a lot more of intellectual climate of "either yer wit' us or yer agin' us". I don't see anyone saying "yeah, he was right to fly his plane into a building" or "damn the man, I hope more people fly planes into buildings". It doesn't make him a hero or not a tax criminal or attempted murderer.

But that doesn't mean we can't look at his statements and agree with what he said. Yes, the only reason we saw this nutjob's "manifesto" is because of what he did. But it's a pretty easy intellectual pivot to look at what was said and divorce it from an obviously disturbed guy.

You know what- I don't think it's a bad thing if we try to look at Hitler's motivations or Osama Bin Laden's or anyone else's. It's still just a thought exercise and maybe if we understand why someone does something, we can prevent a future tragedy. Or maybe we could just try to understand how a mentally unbalanced person turns into a monster.

Yes, there's an ethical dilemma because you are "giving him what he wants" but I'm pretty sure someone in Podunkton, Kansas or Richmond, Virginia or whatever, examining his screed on a message board wasn't exactly the press this guy envisioned.

But to just sit there and slam everyone for the possibility of examining it? It sounds more like the feigned jingoism of a few years ago that was intellectually lazy at best and 1984-level intellectually dangerous and damning at worst. We're talking about the points, the source be damned.

Don't like it? There's gotta be a celebrity or athlete to go fill your time talking about? I'm sure the world could use another 5 minutes discussing Tiger Woods' infidelity.

SI

If someone wants to rant against taxes, the government, or corporations, that's no problem. There's a whole internet, and a slew of cable news networks to support them and agree with them.

Why is this guy's voice so special? I can see studying Hitler and Osama, but those guys were very historically significant. This is a jerkoff with a plane.

People can read whatever they want. I guess I just get annoyed when people read this guy's ranting and think, "hey, he's right! the government IS evil!" as if this is coming from some kind of patriot who is the first person to ever think of these things.

If I shoot up a mall tomorrow but leave a note saying that I did it because I think gays should be allowed to marry - do I get to be admired? Will people read the note and exclaim how right I was? No, I would (or at least should) be discounted as a lunatic.

Edit: It's also kind of puzzling that so many people I thought were "liberal" are praising the FoxNews-esqe rantings of this guy. If Bill O'Reilly or Glenn Beck crashed a plane into something, would they suddenly think they were right also?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

I love how a criminal/deadbeat/general life failure can get all pissed off about sucking at life so much, that he can write a manifesto, throw in a couple of brainless/generic anti-government/corporation stuff and suddenly be admired by many in America (even after trying to kill a bunch of people - which he also, not surprisingly, failed at)

USA! USA!

Edit: I'm as anti-government as anyone on this board, but that really isn't what this guy is about. If he was a better tax criminal, he'd have no problem with the government, or corporations. He sucked at, so they're the villains.

You have the second highest amount of posts in this thread. What is your point exactly? (as you continue to bump this thread to the top)

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Really? This sounds like a lot more of intellectual climate of "either yer wit' us or yer agin' us". I don't see anyone saying "yeah, he was right to fly his plane into a building" or "damn the man, I hope more people fly planes into buildings". It doesn't make him a hero or not a tax criminal or attempted murderer.
SI

Except the entire essay can be summed up as "Wah, I don't like taxes and no matter how hard I try I need to pay them". With self importance/pity and likely massive amounts of hyperbole making up the entire rest.

So given how devoid his article is of any new or interesting intellectual thought, no, I don't want his name to be attributed to anything but the attempted murder of dozens of people.

[molson]

Originally Posted by panerd

You have the second highest amount of posts in this thread. What is your point exactly? (as you continue to bump this thread to the top)

I just read one too many comments and posts expressing admiration for the "message" and felt like jumping in. I think my point is clear.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

If someone wants to rant against taxes, the government, or corporations, that's no problem. There's a whole internet, and a slew of cable news networks to support them and agree with them.

Why is this guy's voice so special? I can see studying Hitler and Osama, but those guys were very historically significant. This is a jerkoff with a plane.

People can read whatever they want. I guess I just get annoyed when people read this guy's ranting and think, "hey, he's right! the government IS evil!" as if this is coming from some kind of patriot who is the first person to ever think of these things.

If I shoot up a mall tomorrow but leave a note saying that I did it because I think gays should be allowed to marry - do I get to be admired? Will people read the note and exclaim how right I was? No, I would (or at least should) be discounted as a lunatic.

Edit: It's also kind of puzzling that so many people I thought were "liberal" are praising the FoxNews-esqe rantings of this guy. If Bill O'Reilly or Glenn Beck crashed a plane into something, would they suddenly think they were right also?

But that was the big point of my post that you seem to have missed. No one is championing this guy as a hero or special or anything like that. I don't think I've seen it anywhere in this thread. Just because the guy was a nut doesn't mean we can't talk about his points as if they had just been written by anyone. And it sure as hell doesn't mean mean we admire this guy.

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

I just read one too many comments and posts expressing admiration for the "message" and felt like jumping in. I think my point is clear.

But this thread was dead and you revived it with your Wesley Snipes post. It is no big secret that a post at the top of the page gets more views and replies than something down lower. The thread would have possibly died without the Snipes post.

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

But that was the big point of my post that you seem to have missed. No one is championing this guy as a hero or special or anything like that. I don't think I've seen it anywhere in this thread. Just because the guy was a nut doesn't mean we can't talk about his points as if they had just been written by anyone. And it sure as hell doesn't mean mean we admire this guy.

SI

I understand that, I know that nobody here is saying that it was good he crashed into a building.

I just think it's dopey to read that manifesto and express affirmation and agreement of it considering the circumstances. I don't understand the, "ya, he shouldn't have crashed the plane into a building but wow was he right!" kind of commentary, but I'll stop interrupting if that's what people want to do.

[molson]

Originally Posted by panerd

But this thread was dead and you revived it with your Wesley Snipes post. It is no big secret that a post at the top of the page gets more views and replies than something down lower. The thread would have possibly died without the Snipes post.

I'm not saying the story should go away, someone crashing a plane into a building is a pretty big deal. Obviously there's an angle of it that I was interested in talking about, and points that I was responding to. I'm not saying we should forget this ever happened.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by molson

I love how a criminal/deadbeat/general life failure can get all pissed off about sucking at life so much, that he can write a manifesto, throw in a couple of brainless/generic anti-government/corporation stuff and suddenly be admired by many in America (even after trying to kill a bunch of people - which he also, not surprisingly, failed at)

USA! USA!

Edit: I'm as anti-government as anyone on this board, but that really isn't what this guy is about. If he was a better tax criminal, he'd have no problem with the government, or corporations. He sucked at, so they're the villains.

Originally Posted by jeff061

This guy clearly had more issues going on in his life other than taxes. Whether these are mental or actual tangible problems, who knows. But if it wasn't taxes he would still have offed himself and find something else other than himself to blame.

Wanting to be viewed as a martyr and remembered was likely the main motivation behind posting his little article. And it worked. I'm kind of surprised actually. I read his rambling before I read people's opinions on it. It just looked like attention whoring too me.

Newsflash, no one likes paying taxes. If you spend a decade looking for loopholes you should be prepared to deal with any consequences.

Agreed with both points. I find it sickening to hear some people who support this guy's views. I suspect he suffered from some mental illness and while I find his death tragic because it probably could have been prevented with treatment, my sympathy for him went out the window when he tried to and killed innocent people.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

I understand that, I know that nobody here is saying that it was good he crashed into a building.

I just think it's dopey to read that manifesto and express affirmation and agreement of it considering the circumstances. I don't understand the, "ya, he shouldn't have crashed the plane into a building but wow was he right!" kind of commentary, but I'll stop interrupting if that's what people want to do.

I'll take that bet for the reasons panerd has pointed out.

SI

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola -

I'm not saying it is happening here on this board, but I have read some people on other boards admiring this guy for "standing up for his beliefs" and "making a statement." That is what I was mostly responding to with my 2nd sentence.

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'll take that bet for the reasons panerd has pointed out.

SI

If you and panerd (and noop) want to have a chat here about how awesome and smart this guy's points were, I'll gladly back out of the thread.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

If you and panerd (and noop) want to have a chat here about how awesome and smart this guy's points were, I'll gladly back out of the thread.

Well, 5 posts (6 counting this one) since you said you'd be leaving and 2 are yours.

If no more news comes out, this thread had already died. But clearly you think you're scoring some sort of cheap social or political points by continuing to bring it up.

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

If you and panerd (and noop) want to have a chat here about how awesome and smart this guy's points were, I'll gladly back out of the thread.

I never said I supported this guy or his writings. I do think this will help to put more Draconian big government security in place to make sure someone else doesn't crash their private plane and kill one person. (which of course simple logic will explain there is no way to stop)

[Noop]

Originally Posted by molson

If you and panerd (and noop) want to have a chat here about how awesome and smart this guy's points were, I'll gladly back out of the thread.

You're a fucking idiot, who the hell said he was awesome or smart? I agreed with some of what he said; no where did I say he was awesome or smart. You have posted over 10 times in this thread what exactly is your point other then make some stupid comments.

Now hold your breath until infinity.

[miked]

Originally Posted by panerd

I never said I supported this guy or his writings. I do think this will help to put more Draconian big government security in place to make sure someone else doesn't crash their private plane and kill one person. (which of course simple logic will explain there is no way to stop)

This is sort of why I think the administration was not labeling this as terrorism. Aside from the fact he wasn't really pushing an agenda or part of a group, but that this sort of shit can't be stopped. If this is labeled terrorism, what about the whacked out homophobe who runs into a gay district and starts shooting people when DADT is repealed. I mean, sure it's all terrorism, but not really the kind that can be stopped. And if this is the sort of shit people consider terrorism that the government can stop, the administration is going to screw themselves by labeling it as such.

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Well, 5 posts (6 counting this one) since you said you'd be leaving and 2 are yours.

If no more news comes out, this thread had already died. But clearly you think you're scoring some sort of cheap social or political points by continuing to bring it up.

SI

I'm not saying the thread should die, that's your strawman.

And I said I won't get in the way of you talking about how brilliant you think this guy's rambling is. If you and panerd aren't going to do that - what's YOUR point here exactly? You're both mocking my participation in the thread but what exactly is your point - that people SHOULD profess admiration for this guy's message, but that you personally don't?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Noop

You're a fucking idiot, who the hell said he was awesome or smart? I agreed with some of what he said; no where did I say he was awesome or smart. You have posted over 10 times in this thread what exactly is your point other then make some stupid comments.

Now hold your breath until infinity.

Why do you always elevate things to the "fucking idot" level? What's the deal with your temper? Are you like this in real life?

You said:

"I think people like Joe Stack will start becoming the normal because people are generally fed up with the bullshit."

If that's not an affirming statement of this guy I don't know what is.