American Idol 2008

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Mustang

I always liked Bice, not one of the top vocals in AI's history, but I'd put him towards the top as one of the better entertainers.

I think Bo benefited from being the first real rocker on the show, and I don't think he is as talented as everyone thought/hoped he'd be. I realize he got screwed with the songs they gave him for his first album, but I heard the stuff he wrote pre-AI, and it was embarrassing. One song is a total rip-off of Sweet Home Alabama.

All that said, the one time I voted for an AI contestant, it was him - not because I thought he was great, but simply for knowing who Badlands is.

[Jim G.]

Originally Posted by Drake

Heh. Jim's blog is now blocking my Firefox access because I changed my User-Agent settings to identify my browser as "Trogdor the Burninator" rather than Mozilla.

Yes, Trogdor is a well-known troublemaker.

I didn't know there were any blocks up there other than the ones I set to block determined spammers by IP. Nothing on browser types, but since I use wordpress, I'm not familiar with everything they have in there.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I think Bo benefited from being the first real rocker on the show, and I don't think he is as talented as everyone thought/hoped he'd be. I realize he got screwed with the songs they gave him for his first album, but I heard the stuff he wrote pre-AI, and it was embarrassing. One song is a total rip-off of Sweet Home Alabama.

All that said, the one time I voted for an AI contestant, it was him - not because I thought he was great, but simply for knowing who Badlands is.

It is kind of hard to judge Bo, at this point. He has had a lot of medical problems that have held him back.

[Ksyrup]

Couple of interesting pieces of info here:

One, Archie and Brooke had to draw straws for who got I'm A Believer. Apparently Brooke lost...? I really wish that had gone the other way. She would have been spared a terrible performance, and I believe Archie would have been terrible with that song, since it's, you know, up tempo and sung by a group featuring Davy Jones, who - 40 years later - still acts and performs today younger than Archie does.

And then there's this:

He made it through Paulagate 2008, butis American Idol’s Jason Castro ready to call it quits? EW’s Jessica Shaw was on the scene as the Idols rehearsed for Neil Diamond week (read her “Why Song Selection Matters” feature in the issue out Friday) and spoke with Castro on Monday afternoon: “I’ll get around to practicing,” he promised her, after noting that his brother and a friend had visited over the weekend and that his Saturday meeting with Diamond had gone “really bad” because he didn’t yet know his songs. “What happens happens. I’ll sing and if people like it, they like it. And if they don’t, they don’t. I’m kind of ready to go home.”

Dude, I'll give you the same advice I'd give someone who's been arrested but confesses to a crime. Do the public a favor and just leave (or plead guilty). Save us the pain (or expense, including the years off my life after watching you perform) of seeing this drag out.

[MJ4H]

accidentally deleted a big chunk of my post. not worth trying to fix.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Out of that group I would place David A ahead of:

Nikki, Joshua, Jasmine, Diana, Anthony, Vonzell, Taylor, Blake, Lakisha, Jason Castro, and about even with Syesha (also about even with Elliott Yamin). He was very, very good earlier in the season, but hasn't been very consistent and has had a few flaws exposed since then. He is still very, very good and easily worthy of top 4 or 5 in this season.

Just my opinion.

I have watched every performance. I would say he has been very consistent. Once he got past the 3 or 4 songs he has performed for five years to please his stage mom he has had trouble. He has the same voice, range and accuracy he always did. The problem with him is that every performance is exactly the same. That is far from going downhill. David Archuleta is who we thought he was.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, his main flaw is that he has been the same singer for every performance that he was in week 1. He can only sing a certain style of song, can't do up-tempo, and has twice mumbled his way through a verses he has forgotten.

[MJ4H]

I think we are pretty aware that we have different opinions on him by now.

[Ksyrup]

Your opinion is different than mine? Not that you like him and I don't, but you really think he doesn't sing every song in the same style, with the same vocal runs and inflictions at the same point in every song, with the same "emoting right arm" gestures? I don't know how you could be of that opinion.

[MJ4H]

Yes, my opinion is different than yours. Sigh. I'm not talking about liking or disliking someone. I'm talking singing talent and ability.

edit: do we really have to do this again?

[rkmsuf]

The trip down Idol memory lane and the subsequent David A breakdown screams

DELETE THIS MUTHA

[Ksyrup]

No, sorry, I keep forgetting you only judge technical vocal ability and not performance in evaluating singers.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

The trip down Idol memory lane and the subsequent David A breakdown screams

DELETE THIS MUTHA

I have a better solution: delete David Archuleta.

[MJ4H]

Sigh. Incorrect.

edit: but, I'm not doing this again. I've said what I'm going to on it. I would've hoped you'd have gotten it by now.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

I'm talking singing talent and ability.

Where is performance in this?

Nevermind. I don't get it, because I'm reading what you're saying and it's not matching your denial of what I'm quoting back to you.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Where is performance in this?

Nevermind. I don't get it, because I'm reading what you're saying and it's not matching your denial of what I'm quoting back to you.

Where does that say "only" and why would you think what I was talking about at that time was what I "only" ever talk about or judge?

edit: and singing talent and ability are shown through vocal performance. The performances are how one judges those things.

[rkmsuf]

David A sucks. That's it.

I win.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Where does that say "only" and why would you think what I was talking about at that time was what I "only" ever talk about or judge?

edit: and singing talent and ability are shown through vocal performance. The performances are how one judges those things.

Because I asked whether you agreed with me on how he performs vocally, and you're response was, "I'm talking about singing talent and ability." That means, to me, that performance doesn't matter. And if it does, then I don't understand why you wouldn't answer my question to begin with. Doesn't the fact that he has such limited range and often performs different songs in the same manner, in terms of vocals and movements, not detract from what is otherwise a very solid singing voice. I've rarely cut on his vocal chops - he's got a very good voice. But that means jack squat if he can't sell a performance. I guess I'm asking why you think he performs well, giving appropriate and relative due to his vocals, but also the performance, too.

Lee Ann Rimes is an enormously talented singer. I've seen her live - she is a terrible performer. One can be technically proficient and have a world of ability, but if it doesn't translate to the stage, it doesn't mean much (at least in the context of a singing competition).

[Ksyrup]

I'm really not trying to be a jerk or come off as mean-spirited here (although I acknowledge that from your posts, I'm failing at that), I'm honestly trying to understand why you like him? Because there's nothing in his vocals that can overcome the inability to demonstrate authenticity in his performance. And I have to look no further than Doolittle - someone I know you liked - to demonstrate someone on AI with a great voice who gave compelling performances, week after week. He has none of her performance ability.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Because I asked whether you agreed with me on how he performs vocally, and you're response was, "I'm talking about singing talent and ability."

That is correct. That is where we apparently differ. I find him to be quite a competent singer technically. His voice is not very full and that hurts him a bit. However, he hits pitches better than most others that have been in this competition. Now, is that all there is to singing? No, of course not. But you have to be able to do that first.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

That means, to me, that performance doesn't matter. And if it does, then I don't understand why you wouldn't answer my question to begin with. Doesn't the fact that he has such limited range and often performs different songs in the same manner, in terms of vocals and movements, not detract from what is otherwise a very solid singing voice.

I'm sorry that that's what that means to you. Of course performance matters to me. Now in response to the rest of this:

No, his "limited range" doesn't bother me. If you mean in the sense of pitch range, it is quite adequate for what he is doing. If you mean in the range of styles her performes in, also no. I think we went over this very point in another thread in fact. To recap, I feel that showing what you do well is important, and being able to sing in a million different styles is not that important. To paraphrase someone else, who cares if you can sing like ABBA?

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I've rarely cut on his vocal chops - he's got a very good voice. But that means jack squat if he can't sell a performance. I guess I'm asking why you think he performs well, giving appropriate and relative due to his vocals, but also the performance, too.

Well, I don't find his performances quite as lacking as you do, apparently. I was very moved by his performance of "Imagine" as I mentioned earlier. He has not lived back up to that level since, but he has come close a couple of times. I don't really recall names of songs of the top of my head, but I know there have been 2 or 3 others that were well above average since (including that one song no one knew that no one could believe he picked--I happened to apparently appreciate that one a heck of a lot more than most others, I guess).

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Lee Ann Rimes is an enormously talented singer. I've seen her live - she is a terrible performer. One can be technically proficient and have a world of ability, but if it doesn't translate to the stage, it doesn't mean much (at least in the context of a singing competition).

I don't know very much about Lee Ann Rimes. But given your description of her as a live performer, I'm quite sure we would disagree on her again. Especially since I know quite well that she has a decent career as a recording artist. Not being great on stage certainly doesn't mean one can't be a good recording artist. Studio musicians are quite a different breed overall, in fact.

In summary, I hope this explains my position him (which, in a few posts fairly recently, I think I've been pretty clear that he is quite talented vocally, performs quite well, but has not been as consistently outstanding as I thought he was the night he sang "Imagine."--If he could have kept that level up, he'd be running away with it at this point. Again just my opinion). As it is, I think he is still a clear cut 2nd place on this show in the final four.

Syesha was easily recognizable as having a lot of ability early in the top 24. She never realized it during the initial culling to 12 and at one point I was afraid she wouldn't even make the top 12. She has steadily improved since the top 12, but I'm not sure I ever though even her best was good enough for the top 4. Borderline maybe. It is pleasing to see her improve so much, though. She would be 3rd on my list as of now. If she keeps improving, she could easily take my 2nd place from David A.

David Cook took over the top spot with consistently great performances shortly after David A stopped being so consistently great. He has yet to relinquish it, of course, but there have been a few times when I thought he might. One in particular was the night he wore the white jacket and did the silly message on his hand or whatever. That was a pretty horrid performance that didn't connect at all. He has recovered from that, but hasn't really returned to his consistently great form of the weeks previous to that.

Castro is hanging on by his dimples, of course.

So that is my top 4:

1. David Cook
2. David Archuleta
3. Syesha Mercado
4. Jason Castro

Thank you and good day.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm really not trying to be a jerk or come off as mean-spirited here (although I acknowledge that from your posts, I'm failing at that), I'm honestly trying to understand why you like him? Because there's nothing in his vocals that can overcome the inability to demonstrate authenticity in his performance. And I have to look no further than Doolittle - someone I know you liked - to demonstrate someone on AI with a great voice who gave compelling performances, week after week. He has none of her performance ability.

I hope I've answered your concerns in the previous post.
Melinda is still the most talented that has been on American Idol. If she does not succeed in some capacity, it will be disappointing to me. Most talented doesn't always equal success in this business. Timing is a big issue.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

No, his "limited range" doesn't bother me. If you mean in the sense of pitch range, it is quite adequate for what he is doing. If you mean in the range of styles her performes in, also no. I think we went over this very point in another thread in fact. To recap, I feel that showing what you do well is important, and being able to sing in a million different styles is not that important. To paraphrase someone else, who cares if you can sing like ABBA?

I'm really not talking about his vocal range or ability here at all. I guess I see a difference between performing the same style, and having a range within a particular style. Aside from a couple of instances (like ALW night), David Cook has stayed within his style, IMO. He's taken songs and arranged them to fit that style, and won kudos for that, but they've all been within a certain style. What he has done, though, is mix it up - he has done straight out rock, low-key acoustic, swelling ballads, etc. For me, the equivalent to what Archuleta has done would be if Cook came out and performed every song like he performed All Right Now, or like he performed Billie Jean. Or worse yet, picked one of those limited styles and then went out and found songs that were as close to that style as possible so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to sing them like he sang the one the week before. There's staying within your comfort zone but changing it up, and then there's singing every song in the exact same manner.

If you're listening to a CD, you don't want 10 tracks of the same tempo and style, do you? But you don't necessarily want a country singer trying out hip hop just to do something different, either. Over the course of those 10 tracks, you're going to want to hear something different than what you just heard. Archuleta has yet to do that in any significant way. And when he did try it once, it was his worst performance. And Imagine was different for him, too, but he's been performing that song since he was like 10. That's the slight difference I have with the way you're defining "style" and I'm defining it.

I don't know very much about Lee Ann Rimes. But given your description of her as a live performer, I'm quite sure we would disagree on her again. Especially since I know quite well that she has a decent career as a recording artist. Not being great on stage certainly doesn't mean one can't be a good recording artist. Studio musicians are quite a different breed overall, in fact.

What does her ability as a recording artist or a studio musician have to do with being able to perform? Again, we're mixing up things that don't have anything to do with each other. Archuleta is not being asked to go into a studio and come out with the best version of whatever song he's chosen and have that judged by America (those are to be BOUGHT by America!). He's being asked to perform those songs live. There's a huge difference. I don't care what happens after AI, whether he sells 10 million albums or 378. That's not relevant to the AI competition, just to the AI producers. If Lee Ann Rimes performed on AI the way I saw her perform live, she'd make KLC look like she had a personality. I'm sure her voice would take her far, but ultimately, too many Simon comments about not giving a memorable performance would take her down. I'm just not sure I understand why you would disagree with me on my description of Rimes' performance ability on the basis of her success as a studio recording artist.

[MJ4H]

Well I guess I don't see him as doing the exact same thing every week to the same degree that you do. You even admit that he has done different things, but think that doing it since he was 10 years old somehow nullifies that. If anything that shows that he can do it (but maybe he needs more time to practice it?). Anyway, again, I just don't see his performances as being nearly as pigeon-holed as you do, I guess. I can certainly see what you are saying, though.

As for the Lee Ann Rimes thing, a recording artist is performing. I'm not sure what is odd about that. I thought that was pretty obvious. I mean, the result of a recording session is a recording of a performance. Either way, though, I don't see why AI wouldn't be looking for good recording artists? I mean, I know you don't care what happens after Idol, but that is far from true for the people that are invested in it. And I don't disagree with you about Lee Ann Rimes as a live performer, I've never seen her. I do know she can sing and if she were on American Idol I'd probably be talking about her as a clear favorite because of it.

I think maybe it is just that good singing entertains me more than it does you? It matters way more to me than it apparently does to you. I think that is probably where we differ. I don't know, but I do think it is clear that we differ somewhere.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I
If you're listening to a CD, you don't want 10 tracks of the same tempo and style, do you?

Oh and for the record this wouldn't bother me at all. I've never been very fond of the concept of an "album." The songs are what is important to me. Toss em in there and let itunes smart playlists sort em out I say.

Maybe be 15 years ago I'd care. Maybe not, though.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

I think maybe it is just that good singing entertains me more than it does you? It matters way more to me than it apparently does to you. I think that is probably where we differ. I don't know, but I do think it is clear that we differ somewhere.

Oh, yes, definitely this is where we differ. I not only don't need a perfect vocal, but the way it is performed far outweighs the vocal for me. And broadly, I listen to styles of music where the vocalist is just another instrument, not really meant to stand out as the focal point of the song. This is why I don't really care for most pop, R&B and hip hop, because the focus is on the vocals (or vocalist as dancer, etc.), and the music is almost an afterthought. For melodic music, I want a solid (non-distracting) vocal within an emotion-packed performance. If the vocals/harmonies are spectacular, that's just icing.

I mean, I listen to some music where the vocalist sounds like when you turn on the garbage disposal but forget to turn on the water. And then there's other stuff I listen to that has operatic vocals, and obviously, if you're going to go that route, it better be good. Basically, if it fits the context of the music, then I'm OK with it. I'm not really coming at it from the angle of, "This is an amazing voice, and oh yeah, the music is OK, too."

And of course AI is looking for good recording artists, but what you get during a season of AI sometimes has little relevance to what they can do after AI ends. Taylor Hicks is a perfect example of a great storyline for the show, solid entertainer/performer during his season, who no one really cares about as a recording artist.

Anyway, sorry for the needless detour, it's the Friday before Derby day and dead as shit around here.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Oh and for the record this wouldn't bother me at all. I've never been very fond of the concept of an "album." The songs are what is important to me. Toss em in there and let itunes smart playlists sort em out I say.

Maybe be 15 years ago I'd care. Maybe not, though.

Death of the album as art.

[rkmsuf]

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around a guy having a David A song on his ipod.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Death of the album as art.

Well, in my case, it was never that important to me. So I wouldn't necessarily call it a death for me. Overall, though, yeah. I know you are sad about it, but I am pretty neutral about it since I never cared before.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Taylor Hicks is a perfect example of a great storyline for the show, solid entertainer/performer during his season, who no one really cares about as a recording artist.

Taylor Hicks was terrible. He was almost tolerable for short periods when he was on stage jumping around, but it in no way made up for his awful singing. He to me is a good illustration of "the singing must be good first."

Wish it was dead around here. I'm trying to squeeze in reading this and posting between classes and we are about to go outside and practice parade marching for an hour because we have a local "loyalty day" parade here tomorrow.

Blech.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around a guy having a David A song on his ipod.

I hope you don't mean me. I don't have any thing by him on my ipod.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

I hope you don't mean me. I don't have any thing by him on my ipod.

the thought had crossed my mind

[MJ4H]

I will try to acquire one and put it on my ipod if that will help.

[Ksyrup]

Would be interesting to see an MTV-like blowup of AI for next season - new judges especially (Paula and Randy are easily replaceable; Simon, less so as a known personality). Doubt it will happen, though.

Erosion in young audience shows cracks in `Idol' future

By DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer
Sunday, May 4, 2008
(05-04) 14:22 PDT New York (AP) --

The fevered response to the latest loopy Paula Abdul episode, where she judged a phantom performance, just goes to show how "American Idol" continues to dominate television in its seventh season.

Yet while "Idol" is still a hit, it's no longer necessarily hip.

You can hear it in the lack of enthusiasm in 14-year-old Katharine Bohrs' voice.
"Last year I was really into it, and the year before that," said the high school freshman from Brookline, Mass. "This year in the beginning I was, but then track started up and I have a lot of homework. It's two hours long and I don't have the time."

She used to watch regularly with a friend. Now her friend records it and watches only occasionally, Bohrs said.

Statistics back up the anecdote. Audience declines for "American Idol" are steepest among youthful viewers, the people who set the pop culture agenda and are most likely to buy music made by the show's winners. These are not the people you want to turn off.

Make no mistake, "American Idol" is still the biggest thing on television. It is the reason why Fox will end the TV season later this month as the nation's most-watched network for the first time in history.

The show is averaging 28.7 million viewers this year, according to Nielsen Media Research. That's down 7 percent from the nearly 31 million viewers who watched last year. It's also typical — maybe better than typical: in this writers strike-marred season, "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" has shed 19 percent of its viewers, "Grey's Anatomy" is down 20 percent and "Survivor" is off 9 percent from last spring's edition.

"We're not in denial that the ratings are down," said Preston Beckman, Fox's chief scheduling executive. "There are things that we can control and there are things that we can't control. I defy anyone to show you a hit show that has been on for seven seasons that is at the level this one is on relative to where it started."

Among women aged 18 to 34, the "American Idol" audience has slipped 18 percent this year. Isolate teenagers 12-to-17, and the drop is 12 percent.

The median age of an "American Idol" viewer, once in the mid-30s, is now up to 42, Nielsen said.

And — horror of horrors — viewership is actually UP this season among people aged 50 and over. Those are the folks many television tastemakers pretend don't exist.

At the beginning of "American Idol," contestants like winner Kelly Clarkson seemed more sincere and devoted to their singing, said Chrissy Will, 16, a resident of California's suburban Orange County. Now they seem more focused on publicity and fame, she said.

"It's completely repetitive," Will said. "It's the same thing as the year before."

Her friend, Tina Oram, 17, said "Idol" now seems boring and over-promoted. She's more interested in watching dance contests (ABC's "Dancing With the Stars" is up in the ratings this season.)

"You can't not put your heart into dancing," she said.

Shows focused on the music of Neil Diamond and Andrew Lloyd Webber may also not have been the most youth-friendly choices. But no level of targeted mentoring can trump up the talent.

"The talent this year I don't think is as great as it has been," said Steve Rifkin, rap impresario and founder of Loud Records. "You're not going to hit a home run every year. I still think it's the most powerful show on TV."

Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, Clay Aiken and Chris Daughtry set standards for "American Idol" contestants that are hard to top; last year's winner Jordin Sparks has had two radio hits, but so-so record sales. This year has lacked a breakout personality, even in a negative sense. Fans won't soon forget Sanjaya Malakar.

As for this year's contestants, Bohrs, from Massachusetts, just seems disinterested.

"I've only watched half the season so far so I don't know the contestants as well as I did last year," she said. "Last year I felt like I knew them personally and not this season."

Comments like that will likely drive Mike Darnell nuts. The chief of Fox's alternative programming said one of the biggest efforts in the show this year was to try to make the contestants people that the audience felt they knew.

Fox has several theories about the ratings slip this year, foremost that it would have been unusual for it NOT to slip. The writers strike, even though it didn't affect "American Idol" specifically, siphoned interest from TV in general, Darnell said. Young people are most likely to try new technologies, taking away from time spent in front of the TV, he said.

"You can always do things to get younger viewers back," Beckman said. "I don't think you have lost them forever."

Darnell pointed to MTV for the example it set in making itself over several times to appeal to generations of viewers who never heard of Martha Quinn.

"American Idol" needs no such overhaul. But the slippage has been noted and will be responded to, said the Fox executives.

"We've never been apathetic about the show, nor have the producers," Darnell said. "Every year there have been changes."
___
AP Television Writer Lynn Elber contributed to this report.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

I hope I've answered your concerns in the previous post.
Melinda is still the most talented that has been on American Idol. If she does not succeed in some capacity, it will be disappointing to me. Most talented doesn't always equal success in this business. Timing is a big issue.

Anyone know what she's done since Idol? So far my prediction that should would do nothing major afterwards is true .

[MJ4H]

Shouldn't you find out what she has done before proclaiming you were right? For the record you probably are, and I never disputed that she wouldn't hit it big right away. She may, she may not. As I have stated above there is a lot more to success in the modern music industry than simply having the singing/performing ability. Timing, drive, etc.

I hope she does succeed, though. I think it would be unfair to cast judgement on her in less than year.

I am interested in what she has done since, but not so much that I've gone out looking for her stuff.

[Ksyrup]

I don't know of anything music-related, but she is sure selling the hell out of some Edy's ice cream!

hxxp://www.nowplayingnashville.com/event/detail/108091

[MJ4H]

Success!

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Shouldn't you find out what she has done before proclaiming you were right? For the record you probably are, and I never disputed that she wouldn't hit it big right away. She may, she may not. As I have stated above there is a lot more to success in the modern music industry than simply having the singing/performing ability. Timing, drive, etc.

I hope she does succeed, though. I think it would be unfair to cast judgement on her in less than year.

I am interested in what she has done since, but not so much that I've gone out looking for her stuff.

FWIW I did check afterwards.

She released a single (my funny valentine? come on now) in February and is due to release an album in June.

For all of the reasons you refused to admit it she will fail commercially - just as she failed on the show - just as Archuletta will fail commercially. Not because of timing, the mean industry, etc - but because what she does does not appeal to consumers.

That's not to knock her singing ability - of which she (and Archuletta) clearly have a ton - but to say that what they do is not interesting to me or a majority of american consumers.

[MJ4H]

I did not refuse to admit that. I agreed to it. And said it is disappointing.

[Ksyrup]

EDIT: Damn, I couldn't link to a pic of Doolittle and Chris Richardson selling ice cream.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

I did not refuse to admit that. I agreed to it. And said it is disappointing.

Is it really that disappointing? What you yearn for some Doolittle?

[MJ4H]

Yes it is disappointing, as I have said several times, that someone that is that talented requires more to succeed than just that talent (luck, timing, drive, people to have different tastes, etc.). It is, in the long-run I think, bad for music in general when less talented people succeed over more talented people.

[rkmsuf]

that's life pal

and not just in the music world

there's hundreds of guys that can lawyer better than Ksyrup but look at him. he's the bomb diggity.

[MJ4H]

I'm aware that that is life. Doesn't mean it isn't disappointing.

[rkmsuf]

I guess the fascination with Doolittle herself is what is interesting to me.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[Ksyrup]

In defense of Doolittle, she has both the voice and performance skills to be a hit. The problem is, she doesn't have the looks, the personality, or the genre to back her up. She reminds me a bit of Elliot Yamin in that regard. He's a good performer with an excellent voice, seems like a genuinely nice guy and all, but damn, I can't stand listening to that snoozefest music he sings. When he guested a week or 2 ago, we listened to the first 30 seconds, agreed he sounded great, then fast forwarded to the vote-off.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Yes it is disappointing, as I have said several times, that someone that is that talented requires more to succeed than just that talent (luck, timing, drive, people to have different tastes, etc.). It is, in the long-run I think, bad for music in general when less talented people succeed over more talented people.

Ok, in fairness I shouldn't have said "refuse to admit".

That being said, I think your defition of "talented" is just too one-dimensional. That's where, for me, my issues with your opinions lie (and why I said in another thread that you were a music snob).

I think anyone that thinks that entertaining people with music is just about hitting the notes and nothing else I think is missing the point of music entirely.

I think that someone like that has their place, but mainstream popular music isn't it - and that I think can be a good thing.

Now don't get me wrong. The fact that there are many popular acts that *can't* sing is bad for music imo - but so is someone that sings uninteresting music well.

Wiki says that DooLittle's album is going to be "Soul Music". She probably, relative to other "Soul Music", will do well. But "Soul Music" is no longer relevant in this country - it's just a sign of wher eshe fits in the musical landscape.

I think that many of us in this thread that are having this debate with you, fwiw, would agree on Taylor Hicks. He was an abomination that had no business in the top 5, let alone winning. Some would view him as the opposite of DooLittle/Archuletta - has the performance but not the vocals. I don't think he has either. He was a cartoon character that caught the heart of AI voters and also has done nothing noteable since Idol.

[Ksyrup]

And Taylor Hicks is the example of why I say this show has very little to do with what happens after the show. They are trying to merge the two by force-feeding us people they think will sell albums after the show ends, but that doesn't necessarily make for the more entertaining show. Like him or not, Taylor was a compelling story line - the model for the "anti-AI" contestant. And in winning over the voters based on that fact, he proved exactly what people thought of him - that was he was no AI in the eyes of the purchasing public.

I'd rather see more Taylor Hicks from seemingly out of nowhere (maybe they have some small label or independent releases, but nothing big) than Carly Smithson/Michael Johns/David Archuleta types in the future, IMO. But that's because I want an entertaining show, and I don't give a rat's ass whether Archuleta outsells Doolittle.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I think anyone that thinks that entertaining people with music is just about hitting the notes and nothing else I think is missing the point of music entirely.

Sigh

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Sigh

I may have exaggerated slightly, but to an extent that's how you come off in these threads.