11-25-2014, 05:32 PM | #1401 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
You may have to remind us on the specifics of this training that turns ordinary citizens into super soldiers. |
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11-25-2014, 05:34 PM | #1402 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cowtown, TX
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that starts at the end of Police Academy 4 and is the main theme of Police Academy 5. All are required watching.
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11-25-2014, 05:36 PM | #1403 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
There are also 4 or 5 witnesses (IN the grand jury report) who back the version that said Wilson overreacted and was in no danger when he shot Brown. And Wilson said Brown was 20-30 feet from the car, which isn't correct based on the grand jury report, which said it was 150 feet. Once again, TRIAL is what is needed to sort out these differences. FWIW, I was someone who during the Trayvon Martin trial vociferously defended George Zimmerman once I realized the facts supported him (IMO). You can check out the thread on it. So I'm not just pushing an agenda here, I'm disturbed by the fact that contract fact pattern won't be contested at trial.
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"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams Last edited by ISiddiqui : 11-25-2014 at 05:39 PM. |
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11-25-2014, 05:39 PM | #1404 | |
Pro Starter
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Huh? Cops are trained in hand-to-hand combat. If they weren't, you could pay any scrub $7.25 an hour to walk around and pull the trigger any time they perceived a threatening situation. One is supposedly trained, the other is likely a clumsy oaf. Regardless of size, I know which one I'm putting my money on in a struggle. Hell, the cop should at least be more agile and be able to keep out of the 300-pound attackers way until help arrives. I just don't see how anyone can say the best option for a trained police officer in a struggle with an unarmed man is for him to empty his weapon into him. That is simply fucking frightening.
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11-25-2014, 05:50 PM | #1405 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Perhaps, I know this is crazy, the large man shouldn't physically attack a man, let alone a police officer. This idea that a person being attacked has to turn into some kung-fu master to peacefully disarm the situation is insane to me. If your life is in danger from an attack, you have a right to use lethal force to stop it. I really hope none of you guys pop up in any of the domestic violence topics with this same stance. |
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11-25-2014, 05:52 PM | #1406 | |
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Quote:
Even trained professional fighters would struggle to stop an individual with that kind of a size advantage on them. This isn't the movies. Size wins out in fights more often than not. |
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11-25-2014, 05:58 PM | #1407 | |||
Pro Starter
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Doesn't seem like you need to be a Kung-Fu master. From the St.Louis County Police Training:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.stlouisco.com/LawandPubli...ments#training
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11-25-2014, 06:05 PM | #1408 |
Hall Of Famer
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Location: Chicago, IL
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So every officer should be trained to take down suspects of any size and background? Because I hate to break it to you, I could easily beat most of the women in our local police force. I've got a solid 60-70 pound weight advantage and much more muscle mass. Nothing they learn in training is going to overcome that.
I don't know what experience you have in combat but a person of Mike Brown's size will beat someone of Darren Wilson's size in hand to hand combat regardless of the training Wilson has. |
11-25-2014, 06:10 PM | #1409 | |
Pro Starter
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It looked like it from the wound Brown inflicted on Wilson. A dumb kid vs. a trained police officer. The Ferguson PD should've buried that photo of Wilson. If it was one of your kids, I'd guarantee you'd be wondering why Wilson didn't try to subdue them in some manner other than emptying his service revolver in them. Regardless of whether they were the one to start the escalation.
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The Confederacy lost, it is time to dismantle it. |
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11-25-2014, 06:15 PM | #1410 | |
Coordinator
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BTW, Missouri governor is now calling in 1500 National Guard troops? If only anyone could've predicted there might be riots last night |
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11-25-2014, 06:18 PM | #1411 | |
Hall Of Famer
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The damage to his face has little to do with his self-defense claim. It just shows there was a prior altercation. I don't know why it matters whether his injuries are severe enough for you or not. A much larger man charged at him in an attempt to inflict serious bodily harm. He defended himself. Just as you would be able to make the same exact claim if a 300 pound man charged at you with intent to harm. It's pretty simple. Don't assault people and you won't get shot. Defending this kind of behavior is why the community is where it is. |
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11-25-2014, 06:19 PM | #1412 |
Coordinator
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A dumb kid? he was 6'4" and 300 lb. That kid is the size of an NFL lineman. And someone that dumb and that size is going to be lethal.
This isnt your kid on the playground. Or my kid, who is all of 120 lbs. This is a huge adult male that was bent on escaping. What was Wilson to do? "Calm down, citizen. Please do not reach for my gun. Please do not punch my head." Is that proper de-escalation verbal technique?
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11-25-2014, 06:20 PM | #1413 |
Coordinator
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There has been calls for Gov. Nixon to be removed from office for not calling up the NG last night.
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Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15 |
11-25-2014, 06:21 PM | #1414 | |
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Quote:
In fairness to the Governor, it seems like a no-win situation. When they bring in more bodies they are "militarizing the protests". When they sit back they are "letting people destroy the city". People want to blame everyone but the actual criminals. |
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11-25-2014, 06:25 PM | #1415 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
This, this, a thousand hundred million times this.
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11-25-2014, 06:28 PM | #1416 | |
Coordinator
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But hey, I'll also argue that quite a few of those 100 pound female cops (as well as any other cop that is scared during their beat of confronting certain suspects) shouldn't be doing certain things alone. |
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11-25-2014, 06:38 PM | #1417 | |
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I'm sure there are things he could have done differently. I also don't think the onus is on him (technically the victim of the assault). It is just weird to me that he should be the one to cater to the criminal instead of the other way around. He also did call for backup. And he did say in his testimony that a taser wouldn't have mattered. He was unable to get to it in the vehicle because he was using his left hand to block punches to his face. I'd add that a taser is a nice tool to have but in a life and death situation, I'd rather have the gun. You get one shot with a taser and if you miss, you're fucked. |
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11-25-2014, 06:41 PM | #1418 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
We can play with these fallacies all day. I can promise you if it were your son who was the officer, you would be asking everyone else what he was supposed to do when he was attacked by a 300 pound pissed off criminal? Brown isn't my son, Wilson isn't my son. I wish a million things differently happened on that fateful day. They didn't. |
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11-25-2014, 06:49 PM | #1419 | |
Coordinator
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Anyone rioting is a criminal, but 95% of them are sheep who get caught up in the mob mentality and wouldn't be doing shit unless they saw others getting away with it next to them. But once those people start and aren't moved on it hits a tipping point and its either move in with violence or let everything peter out on its own... And we saw option #2 last night. |
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11-25-2014, 06:59 PM | #1420 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
Being a cop is dangerous. So is playing sports. I'm more than willing to take a hit when I have to, but that doesnt mean I go skating across the middle with my head down. If a cop is in what they believe to be a life or death situation, the aggressor runs away and hasn't shown a gun or any danger to other civilians, yeah I think discretion is the better part of valor and you should wait for your backup. |
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11-25-2014, 07:05 PM | #1421 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
The cop wasn't in a life or death situation till he charged at him. As for chasing after him, that's what cops do. They run and catch the bad guys. If the bad guys decide they want to hurt you, they get shot. I don't think it should be as controversial as it is. Brown had a choice in this. His poor decisions cost him his life. |
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11-25-2014, 07:12 PM | #1422 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
Even if he already compared himself to a five-year-old and Hulk Hogan? What was he planning to do if and when he caught him?
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null |
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11-25-2014, 07:15 PM | #1423 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
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11-25-2014, 07:22 PM | #1424 |
Hall Of Famer
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He said he was trying to stall him until backup arrived. Perhaps he was hoping Brown would stop and get down on the ground like most people do when confronted at gunpoint with a weapon? Cops hold suspects at gunpoint until backup arrives all the time.
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11-25-2014, 07:28 PM | #1425 |
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Also, what is it you want cops to do in these situations? Just let the biggest guys do whatever the fuck they want? "Welp, this guy is really big so lets just give him a pass". No matter what happened, an officer was going to have to apprehend him and was going to be put in a position where a violent conflict could occur.
This concept of everyone else in the world having to cater and take unnecessary risks to a violent criminal is bizarre to me. |
11-25-2014, 07:28 PM | #1426 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Doesn't frighten me at all. I don't attack police and if I am ever in a situation where a police officer tells me to to do something, whether I feel I am wrong or not, I'll do it and sort it out later. And yes, I realize that is easy for my white upper middle class ass to say. |
11-25-2014, 07:34 PM | #1427 |
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This wouldn't even be a story if it wasn't for a bunch of race-hustling con artists who paraded around losers on national TV with fabricated stories about what took place.
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11-25-2014, 07:54 PM | #1428 | |
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Quote:
I think this is generally the case, however I do not think this was the case last night. I think a large group of people showed up for the specific reason of causing havoc/ looting. That is why so many had masks on. Many also had bricks,and the person with lighter fluid who set the cop car on fire. They came prepared to destroy that town and couldn't care less about the cause. |
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11-25-2014, 09:12 PM | #1429 |
Pro Starter
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Location: Northern Kentucky
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Protests in Cincinnati tonight.
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11-25-2014, 09:14 PM | #1430 |
Grizzled Veteran
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Which Mike Brown are they protesting about?
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11-25-2014, 09:17 PM | #1431 |
Pro Starter
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The Confederacy lost, it is time to dismantle it. |
11-25-2014, 09:20 PM | #1432 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Ferguson rally in Cincinnati shuts down I-75 - Cincinnati News, FOX19-WXIX TV pretty timid stuff, and given our recent history the police won't take any chance of things getting out of control. |
11-25-2014, 09:22 PM | #1433 | |
Pro Starter
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Agreed. Pretty sure we learned our lessons back in 2001.
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The Confederacy lost, it is time to dismantle it. |
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11-25-2014, 09:27 PM | #1434 |
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This woman (Lisa Bloom) on MSNBC makes a solid point: if you use conflicting eyewitness accounts as a reason not to file charges, no one would be in prison as almost every case has conflicting accounts.
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The Confederacy lost, it is time to dismantle it. Last edited by BillJasper : 11-25-2014 at 09:28 PM. |
11-25-2014, 09:38 PM | #1435 | |
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How about this reality that seems to escape some folks: some eyewitnesses have more credibility than others. Discernment of those is part & parcel of grand juries & juries alike.
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11-25-2014, 09:41 PM | #1436 | |
Pro Starter
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Quote:
So every witness that agreed with Wilson's account have more credibility than those that disagreed with it?
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The Confederacy lost, it is time to dismantle it. |
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11-25-2014, 09:53 PM | #1437 |
Favored Bitch #1
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11-25-2014, 10:01 PM | #1438 | |
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I wasn't in the grand jury room so I can't swear to how the witnesses came across but that certainly seems like a reasonable assumption given the outcome.
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11-25-2014, 10:04 PM | #1439 |
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When a witness says Brown was shot in the back and the medical examiner says no bullets went through his back, you can assume that witness is lying or has a fuzzy recollection.
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11-25-2014, 11:10 PM | #1440 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
Police regularly use extra force and SWAT teams to take down suspects if they believe them to be armed. I don't think it's unreasonable a cop would want, and should have, a partner or more with them if they're trying to arrest a violent criminal who is larger and (probably) stronger. |
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11-25-2014, 11:13 PM | #1441 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Darren Wilson says he's sorry but conscience is clear - CNN.com
Wilson's version, you can watch it up top....looks like a regular old cop to me, not one ready to take on two dudes at the same time (which we simply can't ignore that Brown's accomplice in the robbery was right there too). Quote:
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11-25-2014, 11:14 PM | #1442 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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I'm confused on the truth. (EDIT: heh, I guess that was an overstatement!) Was Brown 15 feet away from Wilson when he was shot dead or was he 50 yards away as others in the thread have stated?
Last edited by Dutch : 11-25-2014 at 11:14 PM. |
11-25-2014, 11:19 PM | #1443 |
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Such fun watching the random vandals roam the streets of Atlanta tonight.
You wonder why nobody with a brain gives flying fuck when this shit happens? Watch the news.
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11-25-2014, 11:26 PM | #1444 | |
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It isn't the police's job to cater to the criminals. It is there job to stop them. |
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11-25-2014, 11:51 PM | #1445 |
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He was 15 feet away from Wilson and 50 yards from the police car where the initial confrontation occurred.
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11-25-2014, 11:57 PM | #1446 |
"Dutch"
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11-26-2014, 12:01 AM | #1447 |
Grizzled Veteran
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I'm a little confused about something,
Did Wilson stop Brown initially because he was Jaywalking or was it because Wilson thought he was the robbery suspect?
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11-26-2014, 12:07 AM | #1448 |
Coordinator
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11-26-2014, 12:16 AM | #1449 |
"Dutch"
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11-26-2014, 12:22 AM | #1450 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
Wilson did not know about the robbery when he stopped Brown.
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Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner Last edited by larrymcg421 : 11-26-2014 at 12:22 AM. |
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