Werewolf XX - Of Demons and Elementals (Humans Win!)

[path12]

Yeah, it struck me after I posted that I'm not sure about Ardent.

I'm just going offhand here because I don't have time to reread, but it seems like the suspects that are being discussed are Gram, Pass, Ardent, Saldana, Barkeep, Taz and myself, with Cronin being suspected as an elemental. Personally, I have no way of vouching for anyone with the known exceptions of WVU and Dacman. I tend to think that Taz is human, but do accept that he may have seen my role and tried to co-opt it -- and where I have come out and said that I believe I do currently own the tiebreak, I don't know that Taz has actually done the same.

So if there are only two known entities in WVU and Dacman (and supposedly King), could someone refresh my memory as to why Hoops and Blade are above suspicion?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by path12

So if there are only two known entities in WVU and Dacman (and supposedly King), could someone refresh my memory as to why Hoops and Blade are above suspicion?

Im the lord(duke), though you can choose to believe me or not...i have yet to change a lynch(1 time power) so im not clear....most people trust me based on my attacks on sun, defense of WVU, and my general play. If you ask others who have played with me in the past, im in my normal playing style zone. I dont believe ive been scanned by a seer or been attacked at night, but most people trust me.

If you listen to me, i dont trust hoops at the moment. I know what he wants me to believe, but im quite hesitant to after his play so far. Many other trust him due to his clearing of dubb and knowing cronin as elemental...but dubb taught us last game knowing other non-demons roles doesnt necessarily mean the person clearing them is good. It really comes down to personal instincts, of which im still forming my own after sun died

[hoopsguy]

Path, I don't think anyone has vouched for me so you probably have to make your own call on my guilt/innocence.

Ditto Blade, but he has come out and said that he is the duke. I haven't shared my role because I don't think it is in the humans best interest just yet. I'll do it if pressed to the point of lynching, but I really hope it doesn't come down to that.

And Cronin is an elemental, just as surely as Dacman is. I have no agenda on this other than to make sure people are keeping this in their evaluation process rather than thinking he is either a human or demon. He is neither of those two. Lynch accordingly.

[hoopsguy]

I've posted several times earlier in the game that I was suspicious of Ardent. But now that Dubb (who I did try to shield when he was inactive) has vouched for him based on the scan descriptions, I'm quite sure that Ardent is good.

OK, slight hedge on that - if the seer doesn't come out and say that Ardent is a demon, then I'm quite sure that Ardent is good. And the chances of a seer coming out to call down Ardent are shrinking by the minute ... bottom line is that I trust him more than any of the other unknowns at this point.

What has the seer been up to?
Night 0
Night 1
Night 2
Night 3 - Ardent


Dubb on one of the first three nights - anyone else fessing up to having been scanned?

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, if you are looking to gain trust, then can you explain why you told us that SnDvls was a human when he was a demon? That seems like a pretty big trust-breaker to me ...

[Blade6119]

Hoops, i dont like that at all...thats one of the big reasons i dont trust ardent, as he said he knew he was scanned. 99% of the time in these games, you dont know if you have been scanned...seems very odd for them to know in this game, as if you scan a wolf then the wolf knows hes in trouble. Doesnt seem quite right...not at all

[hoopsguy]

OK, lets start with Dubb - do you trust him when he says that he was scanned?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cronin, if you are looking to gain trust, then can you explain why you told us that SnDvls was a human when he was a demon? That seems like a pretty big trust-breaker to me ...

SunDvls started out human. I believe he was converted on night 1 (no kill by the demons), but I didn't know that until he was killed.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

SunDvls started out human. I believe he was converted on night 1 (no kill by the demons), but I didn't know that until he was killed.

Even if thats true, how did you know his human role to begin with?

[hoopsguy]

But they attacked Saldana that night, Cronin.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

But they attacked Saldana that night, Cronin.

There is a LOT you don't know. There is a lot I don't know.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

But they attacked Saldana that night, Cronin.

could saldana have been a turncoat? His role was not known to the demons, but if he was attacked he would be primed...if he died, they could then bring him back a demon..would make sense why they had to double kill then, to get him dead to bring him back

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

There is a LOT you don't know. There is a lot I don't know.

That answer is not good enough...sorry to be blunt, but do better...whatever your winning condition is, it wont work if your dead...its close enough where ill turn it so your vulnerable and have a friend take care of you tonight...explain more, how did you know sun's role to start the game

[hoopsguy]

I accept that there is a lot I don't know, but I am trying to figure it out.

So the demons convert SnDvls on Night 1. Assuming they don't have any other actions, why would Saldana draw attention to himself with a fake reveal? And why would his room match up with his fake role reveal (bard) when he is killed the 2nd night?

Cronin, what actions have the elementals taken over the first few nights? Obviously you protected Gram - a player you insisted we kill instead of a demon. What other direct actions have you been able to complete?

I understand if you don't want to tell us, but you are also asking us to trust you. Human communications are all here to be seen in this sprawling thread, but other parties can use IM to talk and we don't see it. So ... I'm hoping for a little info in return for extending some trust.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, when we are done with this I want to get back to the seer/Dubb/AE stuff ...

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

That answer is not good enough...sorry to be blunt, but do better...whatever your winning condition is, it wont work if your dead...its close enough where ill turn it so your vulnerable and have a friend take care of you tonight...explain more, how did you know sun's role to start the game

Yet I don't have to explain - lynching me won't affect anything, it will just able the demons to win somewhat easier. There are at least three players I know about who believe me (not including demons), but they can't vouch for me because they will incur the wrath of demons/elementals.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade, when we are done with this I want to get back to the seer/Dubb/AE stuff ...

Id be happy to discuss whatever you would like, be it that or why St. louis is far superior in terms of greatness to chicago, portillos aside

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Yet I don't have to explain - lynching me won't affect anything, it will just able the demons to win somewhat easier. There are at least three players I know about who believe me (not including demons), but they can't vouch for me because they will incur the wrath of demons/elementals.

No, you dont have to...and i dont have to care about the demons(if you arent one)...if you choose death over helping the humans with more info, thats your choice. Everyone has to choose whats important to them...you do, i do...If you know me, i dont care as much about other villagers and team wins as personal wins...and i will do what is necessary to meet my own personal victory conditions. Eliminating you isnt as bad as bad to me as it might be some other humans

[hoopsguy]

Portillos is killer. As for St. Louis - meh.

OK, so do you believe Dubb when he says that he killed SnDvls?
Do you believe Dubb when he said he was scanned?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Portillos is killer. As for St. Louis - meh.

OK, so do you believe Dubb when he says that he killed SnDvls?
Do you believe Dubb when he said he was scanned?

yes
no

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cronin, what actions have the elementals taken over the first few nights? Obviously you protected Gram - a player you insisted we kill instead of a demon. What other direct actions have you been able to complete?

Could Dacman have done the protecting and not Cronin? Just wondering.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, there are 3 humans that believe you on what matter? That SnDvls started off as a human and was converted on Night 1?

I'm having a hard time coming up with 3 human roles in my mind that would have that kind of information.

[hoopsguy]

Blade - what would Dubb have to gain by lying about being scanned?

If you believe he killed a demon, you have to believe that he is a human, right? Or do you think the demons were far enough in front to kill one of their own? This seems pretty out there for me.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by path12

Could Dacman have done the protecting and not Cronin? Just wondering.

Possible, but if thats true i tend to belive gramat is good...Cronin protected and lied about demon boy sun...so we know his intentions are not too hot, if not actively against us. ive stated i think dacman is good and cronin bad, but no one listens to that idea.

[hoopsguy]

Path, I think it is possible but I would love for Cronin to answer rather than me guess.

[path12]

Blade, you don't believe there is a seer, right?

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Path, I think it is possible but I would love for Cronin to answer rather than me guess.

As would I.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, I would listen more if Ardent wasn't fingering Gram.

Hopefully by the time we finish our Q & A session you will trust AE as well. At which point Gram's "lifeforce is running out ..."


Note - the quote is not some cryptic hint, just me being amused at a phrase that jumped into my head pretty much out of nowhere.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by path12

Could Dacman have done the protecting and not Cronin? Just wondering.

I did not protect Gram. As I have said repeatedly, I am on the human side. If it takes a lynching to clear me, so be it - you would lose my insight.

Gram is a good kill. What I was worried about yesterday was what would happen if Sun was lynched.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade - what would Dubb have to gain by lying about being scanned?

If you believe he killed a demon, you have to believe that he is a human, right? Or do you think the demons were far enough in front to kill one of their own? This seems pretty out there for me.

I believe dubb is human, as evidenced by my trust lists...But i know dubb will lie to help his team win. he stated he doesnt feel like a team win if he were to die(villager), so he will lie but lie to keep himself safe. Confirming he was scanned, as ardent said he was as well, tends to keep them safe and other villager afraid of some seer cleared lynch team. Im just saying dubb and ardent were both pushing gramat already, just seems easy for them both to claim this, and the person clearing dubb already to be the biggest supporter of this. Again, im pretty sure i know what roles you want me to believe everyone has, but its iffy to me.

I repeat this, ardent said he knew he was scanned. Seems really odd, as if they had scanned a wolf that wolf would know he was scanned and the first person to accuse that wolf would be dead by now. So if a seer had scanned gramat, he would most likely not have been alive today.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I did not protect Gram. As I have said repeatedly, I am on the human side. If it takes a lynching to clear me, so be it - you would lose my insight.

Gram is a good kill. What I was worried about yesterday was what would happen if Sun was lynched.

Explain the 4 deaths if villagers lynched sun...it looks like all we did in not killing sun till night time was to allow him to bring back saldana, further complicating things. Care to explain?

[hoopsguy]

I repeat this, ardent said he knew he was scanned. Seems really odd, as if they had scanned a wolf that wolf would know he was scanned and the first person to accuse that wolf would be dead by now. So if a seer had scanned gramat, he would most likely not have been alive today.

If you know this as a seer, does that impact your scan decisions?

How about if you are in a game where everyone believes the seer was already dead - would you play a seer role a little differently under those circumstances?

How would you play a seer if you absolutely wanted to remain alive with the role as long as possible, yet still bring value to the table for your team?

If you aren't meeting me at least halfway after this, then I probably need to back down before I make things too easy for the demons tonight.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If you know this as a seer, does that impact your scan decisions?

How about if you are in a game where everyone believes the seer was already dead - would you play a seer role a little differently under those circumstances?

How would you play a seer if you absolutely wanted to remain alive with the role as long as possible, yet still bring value to the table for your team?

If you aren't meeting me at least halfway after this, then I probably need to back down before I make things too easy for the demons tonight.

You dont need to spell it out to me, i already know everything your saying and who you want me to believe it is(trust me, im being cryptic in my answers as well). Im still deciding if i i like it or not. I tend to, but if i do it pushes it towars a person i want to trust

[dubb93]

Actually I was scanned...

As a night dweller you spend the dark hours awake. Tonight you felt a presence digging into your soul, attempting to penetrate your mental defenses.

Of course that isnt' the exact PM, but I tried to get the important parts as close as I felt comfortable. That happened on Night 0, which made sense after the last game. If you still think I'm lieing, then there is nothing I can do to change your mind. Of course it's possible that Ardent just made a lucky guess and matched one word from my PM, but I don't really see that as being too likely. Besides, he has nothing to gain from lieing about being scanned. If he is lieing about Gram being a demon, he's as good as dead himself.

As far as when I was first scanned, my thinking was more along the lines of an elemental taking a look at me and sizing me up, instead of a seer. But as the game has went on I've begun to think it probably was the seer.

[hoopsguy]

OK, I've said my piece in defense of AE and why I think the Gram lynch is good.

I don't think my vote is in on this one. I probably won't be around at lynch time today, so others will have to position their votes if we are trying to generate a tie.

VOTE GRAMMATICUS

[hoopsguy]

Seer actions:
Night 0: Dubb
Night 1: ???
Night 2: ???
Night 3: Ardent

That is what we are led to believe by Dubb and Ardent.
I trust Dubb. Dubb trusts Ardent's version of being scanned. A seer hasn't come out to call down Ardent as of yet. So until that happens I trust Ardent.
Ardent says that he knows Gram is a demon. If something comes up late I hope there are enough people around (or Blade as Duke) to swing the vote.

Now, anyone want to fess up to being scanned on Nights 1 and 2?

Who wasn't scanned on those nights:
Me (either night)

Either King or Saldana could have been scanned on Nights 1 or 2 (both died on 2) and they would be suspect views at this point since we don't know if they are evil dead or not.

Blade is probably correct that a wolf view would likely have resulted in a 1:1 trade situation with both sides calling each other out.

[Blade6119]

I was never scanned, let me make that quite clear. Im pretty sure why too, but thats not important right now

[hoopsguy]

You scan the soul of Blade - it is a maze of juxtapositions, everything is random and difficult to navigate. And there is a fecal smell coming from the walls of his soul.

Human? Demon? Elemental? He is an entity to himself. He is BLADE6119!

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

You scan the soul of Blade - it is a maze of juxtapositions, everything is random and difficult to navigate. And there is a fecal smell coming from the walls of his soul.

Human? Demon? Elemental? He is an entity to himself. He is BLADE6119!

if you listened to demon sun, thats would be from all the shit i throw on the walls that wasnt sticking...apparently some of it stuck, huh sun? lol

And i act a lot more confused then i am, accuse far more people then im actually suspicious of...acting bat shit crazy usually serves me best, as evidenced by last game and sun this game.

[hoopsguy]

I know, just having some fun with a description since I haven't ever run one of these games. Wouldn't have done it if I didn't think you would get a laugh out of it as well.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I know, just having some fun with a description since I haven't ever run one of these games. Wouldn't have done it if I didn't think you would get a laugh out of it as well.

Oh i laughed, no worries...i just worry im starting to feel like you before this game where you cant make it too far without getting scanned or eaten. I know why i wasnt scanned, but im worried my good play is building a bad rep. I think i need to tank this game before next game when saldana gives me the worst role on purpose

[kingfc22]

I still think Gram is the way to go and nothing I've read so far today has changed my mind.

[hoopsguy]

Role - Delicacy

You have no special powers, but each wolf becomes a brutal wolf after devouring you. You give off roadkill-like scent that is almost irresistable to the wolves.

The wolves are also invisible at night and appear as humans until they devour the delicacy.

[hoopsguy]

King, I don't think there is any reason to deviate from Gram either.

Another one of those cases where it seems too easy, but ...

[st.cronin]

VOTE GRAM

[Blade6119]

I REPEAT

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I did not protect Gram. As I have said repeatedly, I am on the human side. If it takes a lynching to clear me, so be it - you would lose my insight.

Gram is a good kill. What I was worried about yesterday was what would happen if Sun was lynched.

Explain the 4 deaths if villagers lynched sun...it looks like all we did in not killing sun till night time was to allow him to bring back saldana, further complicating things. Care to explain?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I REPEAT

Explain the 4 deaths if villagers lynched sun...it looks like all we did in not killing sun till night time was to allow him to bring back saldana, further complicating things. Care to explain?

I don't believe Sun brought saldana back. I think that inference makes sense from your point of view, but going by what I know I don't think it's true.

And if Sun had been lynched yesterday, the demons would have clinched their victory. I promise you that is true.

[hoopsguy]

It seems odd that the demons would clinch victory if a demon was lynched.

What kind of special event was tied to the lynch yesterday? You should be able to tell us, since you say that the danger has passed.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

It seems odd that the demons would clinch victory if a demon was lynched.

What kind of special event was tied to the lynch yesterday? You should be able to tell us, since you say that the danger has passed.

It HAS to tie into some kind of favor.

[hoopsguy]

Not the seer, not the druid, was a human upon initial death - what kind of role do you have?

Less direct - King, do you have any insight into the favor system that you can reveal?