11-25-2018, 10:38 AM | #14401 | |
SI Games
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Quote:
Out of interest what makes you say '4' is true - outside of natural patriotism? ... (asking mainly because in my experience the higher taxes paid in the UK were more than offset by the reduced costs to other areas (ie. healthcare, car insurance etc. being far lower) ... admittedly if I bought more luxury items that might not be the case. |
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11-25-2018, 12:18 PM | #14402 |
Torchbearer
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Football?
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11-25-2018, 12:29 PM | #14403 |
Pro Starter
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Location: Newbury, England
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Also fairly sure that paid holiday is not true.
The minimum holiday in the UK is 28 days (including 8 bank holiday days, so you could argue it is 20 days). I understood it can be as low as 10 days in the US?
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11-25-2018, 12:35 PM | #14404 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
Definitely patriotism plays a role but ultimately, from an immigrant's point of view, the US is the Land of Opportunity. |
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11-25-2018, 12:46 PM | #14405 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
Yes, I do understand that EU countries have more paid holidays/vacation time than the US. I don't know where the "breakeven/optimal" point is for # of paid holidays/vacation/parental leave vs employee/company productivity but, being used to the US, it seems many/most EU are very generous. For a typical US corporate job, you typically start off with 10 days in the first year and that increases every 5 years or so. Last edited by Edward64 : 11-25-2018 at 12:47 PM. |
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11-25-2018, 03:29 PM | #14406 |
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Apparently Trump has closed the border at San Ysidro. Not just for people coming in, but also refusing to let anyone leave the USA.
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11-25-2018, 03:41 PM | #14407 |
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And Russia fired at and seized two Ukrainian ships.
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11-25-2018, 03:47 PM | #14408 |
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11-25-2018, 05:10 PM | #14409 | |
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Quote:
500 people? - that is one of the busiest crossings in the world between countries and apparently 90,000 people a day come in and out of it, I'd expect that isn't a caravan but people upset as being stuck in a country they might work in or visit but not want to remain in at the end of the day. San Ysidiro Port of Entry |
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11-25-2018, 05:56 PM | #14410 |
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Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Guess we'll never know, so let's just move on.
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11-25-2018, 06:07 PM | #14411 |
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At least in this instance both the Ukrainians and the Russians are saying it happened. I'd bet Trump seizes on the Russian claim that the Ukrainians were in Russian waters.
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11-25-2018, 06:11 PM | #14412 | ||
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Quote:
Nope, I think they are here per below or at least 5,000 are. It's definitely unfortunate and sad (especially another report that said a woman was impaled on a rebar) but this stuff doesn't help their cause, its not going to win more US sympathy for them. US agents fire tear gas as some migrants try to breach fence Quote:
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11-25-2018, 06:17 PM | #14413 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
Whoever they are Mexico is deporting them Migrant caravan: Mexico to deport group which stormed US border - BBC News
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11-26-2018, 03:36 AM | #14414 | ||
Grizzled Veteran
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Quote:
I sorry you think that's what I was doing, and that it appears that way to you. It certainly wasn't my intent. I recently looked up recent polling on the issue, and it was pretty much a perfect 50-50 split when given a choice between republic and democracy. Of course, based on the discussion so far that probably means almost nothing, since it can be waved off just like the poll results vis a vis socialism were. From my point of view I haven't been the one doing the goal-post moving and twisting of language. I'm very confident that's a case I could prove easily in a court of law or similar environment if it came to that, but it's also clear to me that this discussion unfortunately serves no more useful purpose. When there can't be agreement on what even constitutes the basis for common ground, even if opposing views don't end up being reconciled by the end of a debate, I think furthering it can only result in increased hostility. So I think it's appropriate now for me to just wish you and the rest of the board peace and joy this holiday season, and take a hiatus before I say more things that I would almost certainly end up sorely regretting. Quote:
I'd be careful with that conclusion. So far as that goes I think I've been the only one really making that point, and I'm no way conservative on most economic policy. Last edited by Brian Swartz : 11-26-2018 at 03:37 AM. |
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11-26-2018, 06:23 AM | #14415 |
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When Conservatives talk about Socialism they are, in my opinion, exclusively talking about that soundbite, and evoking images of Lenin, Russia, totalitarianism, and the evils of Karl Marx. There can be no other comparison or acceptance of any other kind of definition. Therefore, any person or idea that they paint as Socialist is immediately branded and coded negatively in the person receiving that's brain.
There have been many efforts to change that, from the conversation here, to the politicians themselves, but I don't think it'll achieve what they seek anyway. It may take another 3-4 generations, for the Boomers and X-ers to shuffle off this mortal coil, before there's even a chance. They would have been better off, sticking with a rebrand of a current ideology, rather than inserting that one into a mix of western philosophy, as they are trying now.
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11-26-2018, 09:08 AM | #14416 | |
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Quote:
TBF, can't the same be said for Liberals when they talk about Trumpism/Nationalism = Facism and the invoking images of Mussolini/Hitler? There's definitely degrees of Facism with Trump (which can also be said for Bernie and his "socialism") but is it really facism or just a nice "branding" which is "coded negatively in the person receiving" the message. Last edited by Edward64 : 11-26-2018 at 09:08 AM. |
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11-26-2018, 09:19 AM | #14417 | |
Head Coach
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A push for the (start of a) Wall before the new Congress takes over.
I guess, unfortunately, not as easy as Trump claimed, who would have thought? Didn't see anything about DACA, not sure what's happening in that front. Trump’s last, best chance for wall creates latest shutdown threat | TheHill Quote:
Last edited by Edward64 : 11-26-2018 at 09:20 AM. |
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11-26-2018, 09:39 AM | #14418 |
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I don't see it that way. Fascism is an extension of a type of authoritarian rule and could be applied to either the far right and far left extremes. So equating that here doesn't necessarily fit. I think there are a lot of other people you could equate trump to without using Hitler/Mussolini. His love or authoritarian/mob style rulers isn't a secret. Besides, we're talking about Republicans using the term Socialism which has been around far longer than trumpism. trumpism, as a name, isn't a philosophy inasmuch as it is a definition for a his leadership style. And it certainly hasn't been around long enough to dig up those old fearful thoughts that have been a part of the fabric of the country for over 70 years.
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11-26-2018, 10:00 AM | #14419 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Facism is more specific to right and not the left. It is against liberalism (e.g. the left). Facism has been tossed around by the antifa group as meaning against Trumpism and his version of nationalism. You are right that Facism could be referred to other than Hitler/Mussolini but I do think that is what the antifa is alluding to, the negative aspect of it. FWIW, Hitler & Mussolini are what pops up when I hear Facism. Just like I think its unfair to paint Bernie to pure socialism, I think the same when antifa group paint Trump supporters as facists. My working definition of facism and their tenets are here Fascism - Wikipedia |
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11-26-2018, 10:12 AM | #14420 |
Hall Of Famer
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Well GM just announced they are closing 5 plants and cutting 14,000+ jobs (The plants are in Ontario, Detroit, Ohio, Maryland, and Michigan). And right after they announced it, their stock went up 5.6%...
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11-26-2018, 10:32 AM | #14421 |
Head Coach
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Nothing about Bowling Green. Guess this means the 2020 mid-engine Corvette is still good to go.
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11-26-2018, 10:55 AM | #14422 |
Head Coach
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Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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George Papadopolous heads to prison today for that very long 14 day (may end up being 12 or 13) prison sentence, fighting it all the way to the end. Hopefully the internet will be a little calmer without his tweets, though his wife will probably take up the slack.
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11-26-2018, 01:24 PM | #14423 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Former Border Patrol deputy chief defends using pepper spray: You could ‘put it on your nachos and eat it’ | TheHill
If nothing else, this administration has to be proof we're living a simulation. |
11-26-2018, 02:38 PM | #14424 |
Head Coach
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Location: North Carolina
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He can't even get capitalism right.
I'd bet good money that he'd fail a freshman econ final. But, hey, let's be sure to keep voting for the GOP, because we all hate socialism so much, right?
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11-26-2018, 02:47 PM | #14425 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Dola
He's also calling for State TV. And they gassed children this weekend. You are for Trump and the GOP, or you are against them. Pick whichever side you want, but understand that you are picking a side. You either fight this, or you support/enable it.
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11-26-2018, 03:08 PM | #14426 |
Pro Starter
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He’s also said he’ll only consider reducing carbon emissions if other countries commit to doing the same.
If only there had been a way that nearly 200 countries could have gotten together in one place and agreed to do just that. For some reason Paris sounds like it might have been a good location...
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11-26-2018, 03:48 PM | #14427 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Quote:
Heh. If that ain't calling for the government to seize the means of production, I don't know what is. The irony is thick.
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Last edited by thesloppy : Today at 05:35 PM. |
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11-26-2018, 04:42 PM | #14428 | |
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Quote:
Hey! It worked in WWII! {I'm not advocating that at all, it's just that people forget that during the War, the government basically dictated to private companies how they were going to operate.} Further, how are the R's even contemplating standing behind this shit? It goes against everything they've been since I've been alive.
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11-26-2018, 05:00 PM | #14429 | |
Pro Starter
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Quote:
Though Repubs and Dems have both gone out of their way to determine what defines the GOP, for better or worse, I think it simply comes down to them being the party of self-interest....which is a remarkably malleable, resilient platform, when it comes to individual voters.
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Last edited by thesloppy : Today at 05:35 PM. |
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11-26-2018, 06:16 PM | #14430 |
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Sure seems like Manafort will spend the rest of his life in prison.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/26/u...operation.html |
11-26-2018, 06:53 PM | #14431 |
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The Dem has pulled ahead in the CA-21st district. Assuming he holds on, which is almost certain based on how the ballots have been breaking, that's a net gain of 40 seats.
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11-26-2018, 07:16 PM | #14432 |
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I just don't understand Manafort-he was given a gift-all that info that would have come out in the second trial goes away and a much shorter sentence, and you throw it all away.
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11-26-2018, 07:47 PM | #14433 | |
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Quote:
Comes down to he was either a moron, or he figured he could try to split the baby by appearing to cooperate, lying to try to blow up the investigation, and then seek a pardon from Trump after the investigation goes away. Doesn't help him on the state charges, but maybe by the time Virginia went after him he was already doing whatever it was he thought he was doing. |
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11-26-2018, 08:26 PM | #14434 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Quote:
Would Trump have to approve any material that appears on USA TV? Only positive things about him, of course... That doesn't feel wrong at all. |
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11-26-2018, 08:29 PM | #14435 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Trump is messing up Apple (and other Tech companies) which definitely hurts my 401k & IRAs.
It is an Economic war so I am supportive. If this means Apple and like will have to do more in other low cost Asian countries like Vietnam (go Nike), Malaysia etc., the US consumers will suffer with temporary higher prices or shortages, and my 401k & IRAs take a hit I'm all for it. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/26/trum...rom-china.html Quote:
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11-26-2018, 08:46 PM | #14436 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
There are some things I support Trump in and other things I do not. I support Trump on the Wall and his strong push to reduce unauthorized immigration. (However, I definitely do not support the fiasco re: long-term separation of kids from parents that occurred earlier this year). In this specific situation, assuming the Border agents warned them not to try cross over and they did not heed the warnings, what would you have the Border agents do? In a perfect world, there would be an orderly processing of their applications at the border. From what I've read, it was a spontaneous mass "jailbreak" to get over the fence (correct me if I'm wrong) which resulting in the gassing. Parents putting their kids in a dangerous situation. So, if not gas ... Water canons? Armed troops corralling them after they hopped the fence(s)? Fire warning shots above their heads and if that doesn't work, shoot rubber bullets? or just let them illegally cross and join the approx 11M+ already here? Last edited by Edward64 : 11-26-2018 at 08:49 PM. |
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11-26-2018, 09:00 PM | #14437 | |
Grizzled Veteran
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Quote:
Yeah I pretty much agree here. You support open borders or you don't. If not then you have to give the means to the personnel guarding the border to repel illegal boarding crossings.
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11-26-2018, 09:09 PM | #14438 | |
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Quote:
The attention brought to it is entirely Trump's creation. This isn't the first time a caravan has reached the border, but since Trump decided to use it as a scare tactic for midterms this one has the spotlight on it and with the treatment of those detained previously everything done is going to be nitpicked. The administration can't create this attention and then cry about the attention it's getting. It doesn't help that those that support what's going on at the border are on TV saying stupid shit like "you could put tear gas on your nachos". Even if I supported closed borders I'd have a difficult time supporting the clusterfuck this administration has in the wake of everything it does. |
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11-26-2018, 09:16 PM | #14439 |
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Personally I think the attention given to the border is a good thing and can spur discussion. But lets not pretend that previous administrations reacted so much differently to people rushing the border.
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11-26-2018, 09:23 PM | #14440 | |
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Quote:
Yes. I am open to the possibility of someone not really understanding what's actually happening thanks to the FOX propaganda machine. Past that, nah, its an active choice to be okay with white supremacy and nazis and the pure hatred exhibited by this president and those that accept his ideas on a daily basis for whatever reason. |
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11-26-2018, 09:29 PM | #14441 | |
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Quote:
As I said, it's not the first caravan to reach the border. But if you don't want or can't handle your tactics being nitpicked then maybe don't invite the entire world to pay close attention to how you treat people you have a history of treating inhumanely. |
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11-27-2018, 09:36 AM | #14442 |
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We may now know one of the things Manafort was lying about:
Manafort held secret talks with Assange in Ecuadorian embassy | US news | The Guardian
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11-27-2018, 09:48 AM | #14443 | |
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Quote:
So who you're really talking about here is a loose group, with absolutely no membership card, who's only requirement for joining is to say that they are antifa. From the article specifically this: The fascist view of a nation is of a single organic entity that binds people together by their ancestry and is a natural unifying force of people. You can't really convince me that trump hasn't taken the long way around to get to this spot, or at the very least, dog whistle to others, that this is his belief system. Fascist states pursued policies of social indoctrination through propaganda in education and the media and regulation of the production of educational and media materials. trump is all about loyalty and telling people what is right. He just advocated for state run media, and he essentially wishes for control over how he is reported on and who gets their voice heard. They say that nations and races must purge themselves of socially and biologically weak or degenerate people, while simultaneously promoting the creation of strong people, in order to survive in a world defined by perpetual national and racial conflict. He hasn't quite gotten here, but his emphasis on being seen as (and what he thinks makes him) strong, national strength, racial conflict, and his actual degrading speech toward people he views as inferior is clearly there. This doesn't mean that he's to be included in the same category, as there are clearly some differences, however, he is, without question, lighting up a number of talking points, that are critical to the overall identification.
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11-27-2018, 10:39 AM | #14444 | |||||||
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I agree with you here. No doubt there are elements of fascism in Trumpism. The tenets are: Nationalism - No argument from me. I would rate this 10/10 Totalitarism Quote:
Economy Quote:
Action Quote:
Age & Gender roles Quote:
Palingenesis and modernism Quote:
My point is, there are definitely elements of fascism with Trumpism. Does one need to check all the boxes on the tenets above to be called a fascist, no. However, there are some very clear differences between Trump and what we would consider traditional fascism. IMO he has not risen to that level. To your earlier quote, changing some words, and it still holds true to the other extreme. Quote:
Last edited by Edward64 : 11-27-2018 at 10:43 AM. |
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11-27-2018, 02:58 PM | #14445 | |
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I don't know how big the reach of Fox News is outside the country, but isn't that more or less state TV? Bill Shine is being paid by the White House and Fox at the same time. Many of the TV personalities float between the WH and their TV gigs. They receive massive tax subsidies which often eliminate their tax liability completely. They'll even send over a script to friendly politicians. Is it terribly different from something like RT? |
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11-27-2018, 03:20 PM | #14446 | ||
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I think he's made a pretty hard play toward the "working man". His campaign focused heavily on bringing back factory jobs, coal mining, etc. He trashes the "elite" whether they be lawyers, scientists, or educators. Sure his narcissism forces him to straddle that line of playing to the working class while propping up his own wealth. But other fascists did the same. Quote:
He has called for the jailing of his political opponents. He has declared that elections that don't go the way he likes are rigged. That's pretty totalitarian. The reason it hasn't gone farther is because we actually have some decent checks and balances on power in this country that others did not have. |
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11-27-2018, 07:51 PM | #14447 | ||
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As far as I know, Hillary and a little of Feinstein have been the only two and I wouldn't include Feinstein as she is not at his level (it was because of the Kavanaugh/Ford situation). He says much about rigged elections just as Democrats also accuse of voter fraud, suppression etc. FWIW another person's view re: totalitarian https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.59cd04f2108f Quote:
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11-27-2018, 07:53 PM | #14448 | |
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My gut tells me he's a con artist.
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11-27-2018, 07:56 PM | #14449 |
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So now his gut is the second smartest person in the room.
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11-27-2018, 09:05 PM | #14450 | |
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Well he has been adamant about Clinton, Comey and Feinstein. Has even tossed out Obama's name a number of times. Then you have insinuations about Schiff, Strzok, Page, Ohr, Steele, and McCabe be investigated for crimes. You have calls for Huma and Podesta to be jailed. He even said Kasich and Cruz should go to jail for some made up crime during the primary. As for the rigged elections, I can't remember a President doing that so openly. Just deciding that because races didn't go their way it must be rigged without a shred of evidence. Lying about the number of illegal votes cast that even his sham investigation couldn't corroborate. There is no comparison in modern American history. As for the totalitarian part, that's because we have checks and balances. That's because he has never had majority support in this country. The man has praised dictators and discussed how much better it would be if he didn't have to deal with our system. This is not a theory, he's not shy about praising those types of governments and his desire that America be more like it. |
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