Werewolf XX - Of Demons and Elementals (Humans Win!)

[hoopsguy]

Blade, I think you are correct pursuing the seer angle with King. He can clear someone based on his Night 0 scan (I would be just fine with it being me) and we don't have many suspects left.

This is one case where I'm trying to out the seer, if it is in fact King. If it is someone else then congrats to them for keeping their low profile and please continue to do so.

Also, is it possible that Gram didn't know he was protected? And that is why he was giving us the finger on the way to the electric chair?

[Barkeep49]

Gram knew he was protected. That's why he said to blade "are you will to risk the game" when blade said Gram was going to die.

[hoopsguy]

I don't see any human role that Gram could have where he would have that knowledge.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade, I think you are correct pursuing the seer angle with King. He can clear someone based on his Night 0 scan (I would be just fine with it being me) and we don't have many suspects left.

This is one case where I'm trying to out the seer, if it is in fact King. If it is someone else then congrats to them for keeping their low profile and please continue to do so.

Also, is it possible that Gram didn't know he was protected? And that is why he was giving us the finger on the way to the electric chair?

before the lynch he said he wouldnt die...he knew, which means he was in contact with the elementals one way or another

[kingfc22]

VOTE GRAMMATICUS

I had a feeling he was bad since the beginning and he has done little during the game to change my mind.

[hoopsguy]

King, two questions:
1.) Can you verify who raised you? Do you know if it was Barkeep, SnDvls, or possibly a 3rd party?
2.) If you are the seer, who did you view on Night 0?

I know that I'm pushing a little on this, but if you can clear one of our suspects that would be extremely helpful. And I know that you were not terribly available during the day last week so I'm hoping you will answer these questions while you are here tonight.

[Blade6119]

And night one view...he didnt die until night two i believe

[Poli]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Vote Count because I hate not knowing

3 - St. Cronin
3 - Grammaticus

As it stands now, Cronin will be lynched because my tie breaking power will be used.

If people want to lynch Grammaticus more, I'd switch with someone on the Gramm side.

Taz, do it. Please.

[Barkeep49]

Hoops: He already said he doesn't know who raised him.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

King, two questions:
1.) Can you verify who raised you? Do you know if it was Barkeep, SnDvls, or possibly a 3rd party?
2.) If you are the seer, who did you view on Night 0?

I know that I'm pushing a little on this, but if you can clear one of our suspects that would be extremely helpful. And I know that you were not terribly available during the day last week so I'm hoping you will answer these questions while you are here tonight.

I can not verify who raised me and I have no information on any of the suspects that are still at-large. That is one of the reasons I was trying to get some info on the Taz/Path situation.

However, I will be keeping my vote on Grammaticus.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Taz, do it. Please.

It won't do any good at the moment as king's Gram vote puts Gram in the lead 4-3.

[Poli]

Blade,

I'm a little disappointed. You've trusted me this entire time, or at least I thought you did.

Someone out there trusts me now, though I don't know who. My role is relativey useless, but I've been able to fenagle a way into knowing a demon.

That demon IS grammaticus. I'm 100% positive of this. There's no doubt in my mind, blade. Of all the times to trust me, this is the time.

With that, my blasted relief here at work is finally here...just one hour late.

Joy.

Maybe I'll be on again shortly. Depends on the roommate, who is also here with me.

[hoopsguy]

OK, nothing in that response that indicates a fake seer play. But nothing that helps us out either.

King is not the seer, unless he was allowed to take a night action while he was rising from the earth. Ardent was scanned last night.

So the seer is still out there and has been alive the whole time.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

It won't do any good at the moment as king's Gram vote puts Gram in the lead 4-3.

Good. I think we could possibly win with this.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, nothing in that response that indicates a fake seer play. But nothing that helps us out either.

King is not the seer, unless he was allowed to take a night action while he was rising from the earth. Ardent was scanned last night.

So the seer is still out there and has been alive the whole time.

That's my guess.

[Poli]

I will say this before I'm out.

I'm not the seer, and the guy that scanned me can verify it.

[hoopsguy]

Ardent, do you have any information onto the role that Gram plays as a demon? Warlock? Non-descript?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Blade,

I'm a little disappointed. You've trusted me this entire time, or at least I thought you did.

Someone out there trusts me now, though I don't know who. My role is relativey useless, but I've been able to fenagle a way into knowing a demon.

That demon IS grammaticus. I'm 100% positive of this. There's no doubt in my mind, blade. Of all the times to trust me, this is the time.

With that, my blasted relief here at work is finally here...just one hour late.

Joy.

Maybe I'll be on again shortly. Depends on the roommate, who is also here with me.

Ardent, i still do want to trust you like i have all game...im just running out of people who havent claimed roles that could be demons...i know WVU, dacman, myself, fairly certain on dubb, cronin, king...saldana i feel is a demon, but we know what his role was when he was good...that leaves pass, path, taz, you, hoops, and gramat...if im to believe we have two left, i have to distrust everyone in that group and saldana...more a matter of you not doing anything then you doing something to change my mind.

[saldana]

it is amazing to me that in the midst of so much analysis of every single little thing that is going on in this game, no one excpet me sees the overwhelming logic that King is a demon, not me....we both got raised...no one can verify who raised us, and the only way we have any support for king as human is that barkeep says so. i really wish people would realize the tremendous advantage the demons would have by raising king, as he has instantly been placed back into everyone's circles. if we win this game i will be stunned, as logic seems to have very little place in alot of peoples reasoning.

[hoopsguy]

Blade, I think your impressions pre-lynch on both AE and I were correct. You have put together another strong game, from what I can see. Trust your instincts here, if I can say that without sounding too Jedi (or lame).

I like the rest of your list.

My best guess:
Gram and Pass as original demons, Saldana (most likely) riding shotgun post-rez.

On your own, try to work out who is playing the seer. I don't think you should post it, but look back at the game and see if you can factor that piece of information into your decision process. I'm pretty sure I had that nailed down earlier tonight, which is why I wanted to see if I could trap King into a fake seer declaration just now.

After you are done trying to figure out who is the seer, do the same thing for the druid. I don't think this one is as obvious, but as you pointed out there are only so many undeclared people out there.

[hoopsguy]

Saldana, you have a point. Either you or King are likely to be a demon raise, but we don't know for sure which one.

But should we go for a 50/50 guess on this next? What logic should we use to split the two of you up for today? And should we pursue one of you instead of Gram for the next lynch? Do you think it is possible that both Barkeep and SnDvls were demons with a raise power? And if Barkeep was lying about his role, then who raised the second person?

[Poli]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Ardent, do you have any information onto the role that Gram plays as a demon? Warlock? Non-descript?

I don't. I'm sorry. I'm really quite lucky to have this.

[Poli]

Good night everyone. Roommate is hitting the hay. See you sometime in the morning.

[path12]

I'm going to agree with Taz that there is one way to figure out our tiebreaker situation. We both apparently believe that we have the tiebreaker. The rest of you pick out two suspects for the day. Taz takes one, I take the other for a tie and we see what happens.

I believe 100% that I have the tiebreaker vote and I'm willing to put it to the test.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade, I think your impressions pre-lynch on both AE and I were correct. You have put together another strong game, from what I can see. Trust your instincts here, if I can say that without sounding too Jedi (or lame).

I like the rest of your list.

My best guess:
Gram and Pass as original demons, Saldana (most likely) riding shotgun post-rez.

On your own, try to work out who is playing the seer. I don't think you should post it, but look back at the game and see if you can factor that piece of information into your decision process. I'm pretty sure I had that nailed down earlier tonight, which is why I wanted to see if I could trap King into a fake seer declaration just now.

After you are done trying to figure out who is the seer, do the same thing for the druid. I don't think this one is as obvious, but as you pointed out there are only so many undeclared people out there.

I know who you feel the seer is, and am fairly certain i see who you feel is the druid...im just still not sure i believe it...but since i believe the deadline isnt tomorrow morning i have a long time to think about it

[TazFTW]

Just thought of something that I'm not sure has been mentioned since the night events.

Why didn't the demons kill someone last night?

We had two resurrections and apparently dubb killed a demon but there was no demon killing human event. Why not?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Just thought of something that I'm not sure has been mentioned since the night events.

Why didn't the demons kill someone last night?

We had two resurrections and apparently dubb killed a demon but there was no demon killing human event. Why not?

I made the assumption that to bring back saldana they had to forgo a night kill

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I made the assumption that to bring back saldana they had to forgo a night kill

Ah, gotcha.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

At around 10pm, you are all awoken by a scream. A very naked, but very much ALIVE Kingfc has come staggering out of the graveyard. He is confused, he is woozy, but he is alive. The gods have granted him life!

Not an hour later, it happens again. What in the holy hells is going on? The gods have seen fit to return not one, but two people frmo the dead! Saldana has returned from the grave! Praise be to the gods!

i have two points for those that are saying that i must be a demon. the first is above. it says the gods have seen fit to return me, praise be to the gods....not praise be to satan or to evil or to the demons...to the gods...the exact same thing it says for king's ressurection.

second, sndvls said his ressurection was random...that to me means he couldnt control it at all..he couldnt decide who or what happened...thats what random is.

i can only say so many times, i came back the way i left, human...i am not saying king didnt as well, i am just saying some evidence against me would be nice, i proved my role....meanwhile everyone else but WVU and dacman are still conjecture and circles of trust.

[hoopsguy]

Of course, if you are asking for a closer reading of the descriptions then we should avoid this phrase in yours:

What in the holy hells is going on?

I don't take that to be some kind of a pointer that you are evil. But we have Barkeep saying that he raised King. And we have SnDvls (known demon, but wasn't at the time) saying he would be raising someone. I think you can understand the concern.

Also, I alluded to the idea of a demon resurrection shortly after both Barkeep and SnDvls indicated they had a raise dead power that would be going into effect. This idea didn't seem to get much traction at the time, but it certainly is now after Dubb snuffed SnDvls last night.

[st.cronin]

Lynching me is wasting a lynch, but does not present a problem for the elementals. I've given you Gram - he's a good lynch. Hopefully lynching him will earn me some trust back. My interests are the same as the humans, and I can be most helpful ...

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, are your interests aligned with your fellow elemental Dacman?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cronin, are your interests aligned with your fellow elemental Dacman?

I honestly have no idea.

[hoopsguy]

So you don't know if you are acting with the same victory conditions?

Is there coordination between the two of you to execute elemental actions?

And on a somewhat unrelated note, how did Gram know that he would be protected by the elementals yesterday?

[Raiders Army]

VOTE FOR PEDRO

[Poli]

Good morning all.

[hoopsguy]

Much quieter day than I expected ...

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Much quieter day than I expected ...

I'm back at work and swamped, so I'll just be popping in when I can to catch up.....but yeah, not much so far.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Much quieter day than I expected ...

Thats because ive been asleep. I think im about half of the posts in this thread

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

It won't do any good at the moment as king's Gram vote puts Gram in the lead 4-3.

I'm sure more people will show up and vote, so I wouldn't worry about that yet. If it ever becomes needed, I wouldn't mind switching my vote, or abstaining -- it doesn't matter to me which one of these two die, as long as they both die eventually.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, if Blade and Dubb are cross-vouching for each other

Im not vouching for dubb, and i dont think hes vouched for me...i tend to believe him, but im not vouching for anyone outside of WVu and dacman

[hoopsguy]

Meant Ardent and Dubb, who are cross-vouching based on the seer scan description.

[Blade6119]

VOTE PATH
Hes playing just like WVU did last game...either he or taz are a demon id guess based on too many tie-breakers...

If you really want to test them id say set up a tie between taz and path. With path voting for taz and taz for path...the real tie-breaker would win and survive...the liar would die...but i doubt thats going to happen with how everyone is pushing

[hoopsguy]

Since we are both around - are you planning to sit back and let others decide this this vote for sure? What if it is a tie - sit back and see how the tie-break works?

Obviously you can play it however you want, but I'm hoping that we get to see a villager cleared through the voting process. I'm pretty darn confident in you as human, but not as sure as I am in some things like I was Dac and Cronin as elementals prior to it becoming public knowledge.

[hoopsguy]

Guess that answers my question - clever scheme, actually. Would be hard to make happen, but ...

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Meant Ardent and Dubb, who are cross-vouching based on the seer scan description.

Fair enough...im just trying to understand this vote today. Instead of the most likely wolf(saldana) we are targeting someone who openly claims to be an elemental(not neccessarily true) and the person he protected and tricked us into attacking(dont know which side he is on either)...Cronin openly and repeatedly lied to us about sun being a human....why in gods name are you all believing him about gramat?? Just seems like we have better targets

[st.cronin]

fwiw, I'm willing to cast a vote whichever way the village wants me to, in order to gain some trust. I am on your side - I was yesterday, and I am today.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Since we are both around - are you planning to sit back and let others decide this this vote for sure? What if it is a tie - sit back and see how the tie-break works?

Obviously you can play it however you want, but I'm hoping that we get to see a villager cleared through the voting process. I'm pretty darn confident in you as human, but not as sure as I am in some things like I was Dac and Cronin as elementals prior to it becoming public knowledge.

I will move it if i feel it is on thwe wrong person...im still deciding trusting cronin as an elemental as you say, as he really hasnt done anything to make me think that other then attacking the protected person. gramat im not sure about either...still deciding if im confident in this vote.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Cronin openly and repeatedly lied to us about sun being a human....why in gods name are you all believing him about gramat?? Just seems like we have better targets

I've been pretty open in my doubts about Cronin, but didn't Ardent also verify that Gram was a demon? Or did I imagine that?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by path12

I've been pretty open in my doubts about Cronin, but didn't Ardent also verify that Gram was a demon? Or did I imagine that?

Ardent did as well, but then ask yourself what role ardent has...I know what people want me to think his role is, but im still deciding if it buy it. It really all comes down to how much you trust ardent, because besides saldana we should have at least 2 demons left. So look through the player list and pick two out. MOST of the revealed roles i trust, some i dont...but i see at least one unknown being a demon, and not the one most people think