Soccer Thread 2013-14

[TroyF]

Chelsea lose. Man City win. Liverpool simply slap ManU around. Arsenal go up 1-0, close up shop for the next 88 minutes a win.

Liverpool could have had about 5 penalties in the game, but one of the ones they did get was a disgrace. Sturridge with a dive to get a penalty and Vidic sent off. It's long overdue for FIFA, the FA and anyone who gives a crap about fair play to start going nuts on this garbage. 3 games and threats of deduction of points for teams who do it frequently would be a great start.

2 minutes later the same guy has a clear penalty not given. This time those decisions didn't impact the overall game, but far too often they do. Get the refs some help on these calls and get the damned things right. It isn't that hard.

Arsenal are still smarting from a clear penalty not given in the Chelsea game. Those extra 2 points would look really good about now. . .

[flere-imsaho]

In this day of TV cameras (especially the many covering the pitch at the top level), there's really no excuse not to level fines / suspensions for obvious diving (and other illegal play) not caught during the game.

I know the usual argument is that you shouldn't change a game retroactively (i.e. what do you do about the penalty that shouldn't have been awarded, but was, and turned into the winning goal), and I'm not arguing for that, but some sort of ramification for that kind of "play" needs to happen.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

In this day of TV cameras (especially the many covering the pitch at the top level), there's really no excuse not to level fines / suspensions for obvious diving (and other illegal play) not caught during the game.

I think giving bans after the match would be fine really; it'd be enough of an incentive to players not to dive as they could find themselves missing a match (or more) after the event.

The biggest problem isn't the 'dive' itself its players not owning up and admitting to the referee that they 'went down' ... when I'm playing football I'll sometimes 'dive' in order to avoid having to run over (and potentially stamp on) an opponent, I'm sure in some cases that is the case with dives and obviously that should be allowed, however the player should admit that to the referee and ensure the opponent isn't punished.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I think giving bans after the match would be fine really; it'd be enough of an incentive to players not to dive as they could find themselves missing a match (or more) after the event.

The biggest problem isn't the 'dive' itself its players not owning up and admitting to the referee that they 'went down' ... when I'm playing football I'll sometimes 'dive' in order to avoid having to run over (and potentially stamp on) an opponent, I'm sure in some cases that is the case with dives and obviously that should be allowed, however the player should admit that to the referee and ensure the opponent isn't punished.

As much public scorn as you can give the divers the better. Sturridge is a freaking joy to watch, but he's disgusting to watch too. This was an attempt to draw a penalty against Arsenal in the FA cup:

Daniel Sturridge Dirty Dive vs Arsenal - YouTube

Just to be clear, I'm for fining and suspending even if the penalty isn't awarded. It cheapens the game and there is video tape to look at now. If the player jumps up and tells the ref it was an accident, I tripped over my own two feet or anything of the sort that's fine.

It really ruins the game. A flop in basketball is bad, but at the end of the day it usually results in 2 points and a guy has 6 fouls to play with. The stakes in soccer are so much higher with goals and red cards, this needs to be stamped out quickly.

Cazorla dove to win a penalty last year for Arsenal. I was just as disgusted by that. Please, powers that be in soccer, penalize these douche bags and get it out of the game, k thx

[law90026]

That's the issue isn't it? Same Liverpool game, Suarez could have gone down but decided not to, penalty not awarded. The application of the rules seems to suggest that a player has to go down in order to get a penalty so players will inevitably go down once there's contact.

But I agree, the football associations should come up with post-game reviews of dives and fines/bans after the game so that a clear message is sent. It's pretty much the same issue as the whole "respect the referee" campaign, where it's just lip service and players get away with hurling abuse at a referee during a game or like Sandro actually handling the referee during the Arsenal-Spurs game.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by law90026

That's the issue isn't it? Same Liverpool game, Suarez could have gone down but decided not to, penalty not awarded. The application of the rules seems to suggest that a player has to go down in order to get a penalty so players will inevitably go down once there's contact.

But I agree, the football associations should come up with post-game reviews of dives and fines/bans after the game so that a clear message is sent. It's pretty much the same issue as the whole "respect the referee" campaign, where it's just lip service and players get away with hurling abuse at a referee during a game or like Sandro actually handling the referee during the Arsenal-Spurs game.

I agree with that 100% as well. When a guy brushes off the tackles, the ref always lets it go.

The consistency of penalty calls across all of soccer is beyond goofy. In the Tottenham/Arsenal game, a Spurs player wrapped his arm around the throat of a gunner and threw him down. Of course, from a free kick, they will call that once a season. In another game you see guy touch a jersey and it's a spot kick.

I know it's a judgement call and it will never be called correctly 100% of the time, but you CAN stomp out the diving with severe penalties and public shaming.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by law90026

That's the issue isn't it? Same Liverpool game, Suarez could have gone down but decided not to, penalty not awarded. The application of the rules seems to suggest that a player has to go down in order to get a penalty so players will inevitably go down once there's contact.

I remember this being a huge issue in the mid-90s when English teams had re-entered European competition and were trying to advance (and was also about the time I started following soccer). I even recall saying to my buddy at the time that if English teams wanted to win European championships they were going to have to learn how to play the refs as much as the game.

Absolutely not saying that this is a European thing. Just saying that the problem has been around for a significant amount of time.

Along the same lines, my other pet peeve is when the ball looks to be going out for a throw / goal kick, but the attacker could probably get there in time, and instead the defender feints at possibly touching the ball, and then body checks the attacker instead. Over the past 10 years I've seen this morph from the defender shepherding the ball out while making no attempt to touch it (generally OK in my mind) to the defender just bodychecking the onrushing attacker (generally no OK in my mind). Why this isn't called as obstruction is beyond me.

[BishopMVP]

Julian Green filing for a switch to the US. I hope he wasn't promised a WC spot, but it really doesn't matter if Green or Chris Wondolowski is #23 on that roster. Julian Green: German-American USMNT Prospect is Equal Parts Allure and Unknown | The Big Lead

[DaddyTorgo]

Wondo is a known quanitity and he blows (internationally speaking). I'd rather have JK take a shot in the dark by promising the spot to Green.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Julian Green filing for a switch to the US. I hope he wasn't promised a WC spot, but it really doesn't matter if Green or Chris Wondolowski is #23 on that roster. Julian Green: German-American USMNT Prospect is Equal Parts Allure and Unknown | The Big Lead

or hes taking Brek Sheas spot. either way id rather have a wild card like Green than known underperformers in the WC

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

or hes taking Brek Sheas spot. either way id rather have a wild card like Green than known underperformers in the WC

me three

[bulletsponge]

this is how i feel

[rowech]

Glad to see that good old Wenger had them ready to play versus a real team again. What an absolute disgrace to get blown out like this again.

[The Jackal]

sadface

[sovereignstar v2]

Typical officiating. Not even able to send off the correct Arsenal player.

[law90026]

This loss I place on Wenger. He doesn't change anything up when he plays against Mourinho and that's why he has never beaten a Mourinho before. Absolutely appalling.

[kingfc22]

What an embarrassment. Midfield was non-existent in terms of making plays and keeping a general shape. Blown off the field in all 3 road games against the other top four clubs. Need a top flight striker next season as Giroud is not a dominate force.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

What an embarrassment. Midfield was non-existent in terms of making plays and keeping a general shape. Blown off the field in all 3 road games against the other top four clubs. Need a top flight striker next season as Giroud is not a dominate force.

I really wonder if Chamberlin should get some time at striker. I feel like he would bring a different dynamic to their offense.

[whomario]

Suarez is amazing this year, that´s some Messi/Ronaldo level stuff he´s been doing this season.


Also, Wayne Rooney with an absolutely amazing goal :



Holy smokes !

funny he did that in a game with Beckham in attendance

[MacroGuru]

Thanks to FIFA 14 and FM 2013 I have gotten into soccer big time again.

Watching EPL and MLS every chance I can get.

Right now watching RSL vs LA, man I wish I was back in Utah. I know I would have season tickets to RSL. They were building Rio Tinto Stadium the year I moved to Buffalo.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by law90026

This loss I place on Wenger. He doesn't change anything up when he plays against Mourinho and that's why he has never beaten a Mourinho before. Absolutely appalling.

He's gotta be dead-man-walking at this point, right??

I mean this has just been EMBARASSING.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

He's gotta be dead-man-walking at this point, right??

I mean this has just been EMBARASSING.

Really it amazes me how people turn on Wenger whenever Arsenal incur a heavy loss, the club has a huge amount of injuries and he insists on them attempting to play nice football and get a result rather than shut a game down and try to grind out a result.

Look at his record - Arsenal are one of the smallest spending Premiership sides yet they never flirt with relegation and are consistently in the Champions League ... for me outside of (now retired) Alex Ferguson he is the best manager ever seen in the Premiership.

Mourinho is a great manager also but he's always had the resources on hand to change his squad and never sticks around long enough to have to blend and change a squad as it ages and people retire, Wenger is all the more impressive because he has managed this while sticking to a tight budget.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Really it amazes me how people turn on Wenger whenever Arsenal incur a heavy loss, the club has a huge amount of injuries and he insists on them attempting to play nice football and get a result rather than shut a game down and try to grind out a result.

Look at his record - Arsenal are one of the smallest spending Premiership sides yet they never flirt with relegation and are consistently in the Champions League ... for me outside of (now retired) Alex Ferguson he is the best manager ever seen in the Premiership.

Mourinho is a great manager also but he's always had the resources on hand to change his squad and never sticks around long enough to have to blend and change a squad as it ages and people retire, Wenger is all the more impressive because he has managed this while sticking to a tight budget.

I don't disagree with you about doing it on a budget, and always playing attractive football, just saying...at some point he's got to exhaust all the goodwill (either with the supporters or with ownership). It's sort of fascinating watching from the outside and wondering when that point will be is all. An interesting case-study in organizational dynamics.

Just wondering if that time is now, that's all.

On the other hand - shipping what...16 goals in those 3 games? If you go into those games knowing that you've had injury issues etc., then shouldn't a manager adjust the team's tactics to try to ensure you get results rather than just going out there and being completely outclassed?

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I don't disagree with you about doing it on a budget, and always playing attractive football, just saying...at some point he's got to exhaust all the goodwill (either with the supporters or with ownership). It's sort of fascinating watching from the outside and wondering when that point will be is all. An interesting case-study in organizational dynamics.

Just wondering if that time is now, that's all.

From a club/board level individual results really don't matter to the owners - he's taking the club into the Champions League year after year and that is the vital thing for the club to retain their stature and level of revenue.

The "fans" will turn on him semi-regularly because they haven't seen a trophy in quite a few years - but frankly no team has a divine right to win trophies regularly and as such they've just been spoilt in the past.

It amazes me that last season Wenger was constantly said to be on the verge of sacking - then this season they excel despite huge injuries in the squad and there is only limited praise ... then they finally slip up badly and all of a sudden its a crisis?

(speaking as a Brighton supporter who hasn't even seen the Premiership since its inception I'd be well chuffed to have a manager of Wenger's stature )

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

From a club/board level individual results really don't matter to the owners - he's taking the club into the Champions League year after year and that is the vital thing for the club to retain their stature and level of revenue.

The "fans" will turn on him semi-regularly because they haven't seen a trophy in quite a few years - but frankly no team has a divine right to win trophies regularly and as such they've just been spoilt in the past.

It amazes me that last season Wenger was constantly said to be on the verge of sacking - then this season they excel despite huge injuries in the squad and there is only limited praise ... then they finally slip up badly and all of a sudden its a crisis?

(speaking as a Brighton supporter who hasn't even seen the Premiership since its inception I'd be well chuffed to have a manager of Wenger's stature )

It is his refusal to adjust to the situation and players he has available at hand. There was no reason to not have Flamimi playing yesterday -- especially given previous results when he hasn't played against the big boys. He thinks he can do the same thing no matter who they are playing. They just aren't that good.

[Ajaxab]

Ray Hudson is in fine form doing color for Barca-Real. The similes and metaphors be flying left, right and center.

[law90026]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

From a club/board level individual results really don't matter to the owners - he's taking the club into the Champions League year after year and that is the vital thing for the club to retain their stature and level of revenue.

The "fans" will turn on him semi-regularly because they haven't seen a trophy in quite a few years - but frankly no team has a divine right to win trophies regularly and as such they've just been spoilt in the past.

It amazes me that last season Wenger was constantly said to be on the verge of sacking - then this season they excel despite huge injuries in the squad and there is only limited praise ... then they finally slip up badly and all of a sudden its a crisis?

(speaking as a Brighton supporter who hasn't even seen the Premiership since its inception I'd be well chuffed to have a manager of Wenger's stature )

I think the issue is that what's happening is nothing new. He doesn't really focus on tactics (see his autobiography) and insists on playing soccer a particular way. This refusal to adjust means that the team loses a lot of games against big clubs.

His other issues, to me, are his refusal to spend when he can. Look at our January window as an example. We signed a 31 year old midfielder who was injured. I'm not even sure how our transfer team works. Do they just randomly throw names up?

We entered the season with a clear need for a striker. We have only Giroud and, while he has some strengths, he has been badly exposed the last few games.

We have been incredibly fortunate that Kos and Mert have been injury free because we only have 1 other CB in the team, a poor Vermalaen.

I mean, I don't even know what to call that other than squad mismanagement.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by law90026

I think the issue is that what's happening is nothing new. He doesn't really focus on tactics (see his autobiography) and insists on playing soccer a particular way. This refusal to adjust means that the team loses a lot of games against big clubs.

His other issues, to me, are his refusal to spend when he can. Look at our January window as an example. We signed a 31 year old midfielder who was injured. I'm not even sure how our transfer team works. Do they just randomly throw names up?

Exactly.

[Critch]

I'm going that some Arsenal fans wont appreciate what they have until he's gone. Without Wenger, they're just another North London team with not enough money to really compete with the petro-dollar or Man Utd.

Great El Clasico this afternoon, the football was so good I enjoyed it despite the play-acting and Ray Hudson commentary. I dont particularly like either team, but it's always nice to see Sergio Ramos and Pepe lose.

[law90026]

Originally Posted by Critch

I'm going that some Arsenal fans wont appreciate what they have until he's gone. Without Wenger, they're just another North London team with not enough money to really compete with the petro-dollar or Man Utd.

If you believe the latest financials, Arsenal is in a very good financial position. Strong enough to compete against the petro-dollar? Probably not but the FPS should also mitigate that slightly (I don't think the FPS will do enough but it should reign crazy spending a little).

To me, the issue has always been whether Arsenal has tried hard enough to win. I think that we haven't and we have just done enough to maintain our status quo. If we had been going all out every year and we failed, I could live with that but I can't accept a culture where "good enough" is deemed as sufficient.

Again, just looking at this latest season, we are close and we would be even closer if we had just signed players with the money we had. The Suarez situation was badly handled (and I'm sure we would have run away with the league if Suarez was our CF), we botched the Higuain signing, we didn't want to pay for Draxler in January (one of the brightest young talents and I suspect will be snapped up by another club in the summer) ... If we had no cash, then yes, we live with the limits that our finances impose. But the books show plenty of surplus, just that the club is so damn conservative in terms of spending.

[whomario]

I kind of agree with that statement. Dortmund is in a similar situation, having lost key players without replacing them adequately and being unwilling to pay a premium for proven players or big time talent. Instead, they still sign players that are sort of "off the beaten path" and fit their system. The problem however is that now they have a ton of great role players, but lack the center pieces for them to shine.
Guys like Mkitaryan and Aubameyang are asked to do way more than they are comfortable with. Same goes for Reus. None of them are true AMCs and that´s a problem when you loose guys like Kagawa and Götze.

Things will only get worse with Lewandowski leaving (on a free and to allready seemingly unbeatable Bayern, this is the absolute worst case scenario)

The difference however is that at least their out of the box thinking produced 2 titles and a CL final (where their system was working perfectly for 80 minutes against the best team in the world), so it´s understandable to be reluctant to move away from their philosophy. Add in the fact that not too long ago the club was nearly bancrupt after a ill-timed spending spree and then almost being relegated.

I also think they actually have a better chance against strong teams where they won´t have to controll the ball, so i wouldn´t put beating Real out of the question. Although admittedly, the number of injuries (Subotic, Schmelzer, Gündogan, Blaszykowski are out for sure) is another problem and now Lewandowski has to sit out the first game for a bogus yellow.


as an aside: Draxler isn´t all that good, imo. And i´m not saying that due to him playing for an arch rival of Dortmund He lacks the "foot speed" and quick thinking to play in the hole and doesn´t do anything all that special on the left. Not a much better prospect than, say, Andre Schürrle (now at Chelsea).
Good player, but not one to break the bank for.

[SirFozzie]

Not shocking: the red card against Kieran Gibbs rescinded

Shocking: Apparently, being a second goalie and parrying away a possibly goal bound shot is not a red card offense.

BBC Sport - Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Kieran Gibbs cleared by FA

[AlexB]

The second point is not shocking: the shot wasn't on target, so clearly not denying a goal or a goal scoring opportunity. If he hadn't have touched it, it would have been a goal kick

If the shot had been on target, different story however

[rowech]

Originally Posted by AlexB

The second point is not shocking: the shot wasn't on target, so clearly not denying a goal or a goal scoring opportunity. If he hadn't have touched it, it would have been a goal kick

If the shot had been on target, different story however

Shouldn't the official be suspended then? At that point, they're saying it wasn't a red card offense, Arsenal should not have gone to 10, and they sent off the wrong guy.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by rowech

Shouldn't the official be suspended then? At that point, they're saying it wasn't a red card offense, Arsenal should not have gone to 10, and they sent off the wrong guy.

I can see why they're not calling it a red with the benefit of replays, but anyone calling it live would have to send him off unless they had the perfect angle - the whole reason he handles is because his reflex is that the ball IS going in, after all, so unless the ref's certain it's going wide he has to show a red. That error was pretty much unavoidable; sending off Gibbs instead, not so much.

[cartman]

Julian Green's paperwork to join the US National Team has cleared, and he'll be eligible to play in the friendly against Mexico on April 2nd.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by rowech

Shouldn't the official be suspended then? At that point, they're saying it wasn't a red card offense, Arsenal should not have gone to 10, and they sent off the wrong guy.

The ref managed to get two of the three decisions in that incident wrong, so yes, tend to agree: he should have been stood down/"dropped" for a week. Suspension is a strong word for it, but I'm surprised he's on the list this week.

Originally Posted by Katon

I can see why they're not calling it a red with the benefit of replays, but anyone calling it live would have to send him off unless they had the perfect angle - the whole reason he handles is because his reflex is that the ball IS going in, after all, so unless the ref's certain it's going wide he has to show a red. That error was pretty much unavoidable; sending off Gibbs instead, not so much.

I don't think the ref even saw the handball: there was an absolute age between the ball going out of play and the penalty award, as if one of his assistants said something via his earpiece. I reckon pre-the officials getting wired up for communication he would have given a goal kick, and that was the reason it all went wrong for him - everything he did was a best guess.

[whomario]

no, everything he did was trust his assistant.

Actually, i don´t see how Gibbs not preventing a goal should result in him not getting punished for trying to do exactly that.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by AlexB

The second point is not shocking: the shot wasn't on target, so clearly not denying a goal or a goal scoring opportunity. If he hadn't have touched it, it would have been a goal kick

If the shot had been on target, different story however

Actually no that IS a shocking decision - its purposeful violation of the rules of play attempting to prevent a goal, the fact the shot wasn't on target isn't the point ... its the fact that he went out of his way to commit the offense it was a clear cut red card.

It comes under the 'serious foul play' ruling in my opinion and the punishment would be at the discretion of the referee ... because of the blatant intent of the offense I'd expect any referee to award a red card.

Originally Posted by Law 12 (Fouls and Misconduct)

Weblink
(i) handles the ball, i.e., carries, strikes or propels the ball with his hand or arm; (this does not apply to the goalkeeper within his own penalty-area)

...

A player shall be sent off the field of play and shown the red card, if, in the opinion of the referee, he:

...

(o) is guilty of serious foul play;

[bhlloy]

Yeah, that's so far outside of the spirit of the law, I can't believe that's right. Must be the equivalent of the "sorry we sent the wrong guy off" hallmark card

[law90026]

I said the same thing on an Arsenal forum: it was a red card offence. If you watched the match, no way you could tell without the benefit of video replay whether the shot was going in or not and it was crystal clear that there was a hand involved.

The only issue for me is that the referee (I) sent the wrong person off and (ii) didn't believe Ox when he told the referee that he did it. Don't think the referee screwed up entirely because it was the 4th official that did all this (who is btw the referee who gave Villa their penalty against Arsenal at the start of the season if I'm not wrong .... conspiracy theory woo!).

But yes, it's essentially a get out of jail free card being played as an apology I think.

[law90026]

Just following on from all this: I still don't understand why soccer is so damn resistant to limited video replays during a match. With the amount of time spent on that situation during the match, the referee might as well have had the chance to watch a minute of video to make sure he got it right.

[Flasch186]

It was a red and just because Ox came up and said it wasn't him, it was me, the ref can't change who he tosses. Imagine Messi getting tossed and someone much further down the roster saying, no no, it was me so Messi can stay on. It was the right Red, wrong follow through... The conversation with the AR went poorly and the ref wasn't helped by his AR. Tough spot.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

It was a red and just because Ox came up and said it wasn't him, it was me, the ref can't change who he tosses. Imagine Messi getting tossed and someone much further down the roster saying, no no, it was me so Messi can stay on. It was the right Red, wrong follow through... The conversation with the AR went poorly and the ref wasn't helped by his AR. Tough spot.

I think he is allowed to change it as long as he does so before the player leaves the pitch. I'm reasonably certain that I've seen yellow cards changed a couple of times in the past when given to the wrong player.

The Messi situation I think is very unlikely and, in this case, he could have confirmed Ox's "It was me" by asking other players.

I thought it was very arrogant of him not to ask around when Ox made his confession - I don't think he had seen the offence himself and the assistant was 30 or forty yards away and seeing it end on so there was no great certainty attached to his decision.

The rational post-match decision should have been to transfer the ban to the right player. I think the authorities chickened out on that.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by law90026

Just following on from all this: I still don't understand why soccer is so damn resistant to limited video replays during a match. With the amount of time spent on that situation during the match, the referee might as well have had the chance to watch a minute of video to make sure he got it right.

I tend to agree that there should be limited use of technology but it is essential that it doesn't break the continuity of the game. There is the additional problem that, as many parts of the world don't have it, then you are introducing different rules across the world. The compeitions using it would have to be declared.

Limiting it to existing breaks in play is clearly the first step and I would like to see them introduce video review of all goals scored. This would have the added advantage of improving the offside rule which probably leads to the greatest number of bad calls - often calls that have a goal/no goal consequence.

By reviewing goals then the instruction to the assistant ref to grant the benefit of the doubt to the attacking team in offside decisions - currently mostly ignored because of the criticism that results when an offside goal is scored - could be followed with impunity.

Because any goal would be reviewed then this error would be corrected - goal disallowed and an offside decision given. I think this could clean up the error rate for offside decisions allowing the assistant ref to allow the doubtful calls to continue.

You could extend the review also to situations where a corner or free kick to the attacking side occurs immediately following the doubtful offside call as there is a break in play there as well.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Actually no that IS a shocking decision - its purposeful violation of the rules of play attempting to prevent a goal, the fact the shot wasn't on target isn't the point ... its the fact that he went out of his way to commit the offense it was a clear cut red card.

His INTENTION was to stop a goal. That he was wrong in his assessment of the shot is irrelevant. Red card!

It's a little like the last man red card. When a defender stops one of my local Perth Glory strikers there is't a cat-in-hell's-chance of his scoring but it's still a red card

On the other hand I'm not a fan of this triple punishment rule.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Actually no that IS a shocking decision - its purposeful violation of the rules of play attempting to prevent a goal, the fact the shot wasn't on target isn't the point ... its the fact that he went out of his way to commit the offense it was a clear cut red card.

It comes under the 'serious foul play' ruling in my opinion and the punishment would be at the discretion of the referee ... because of the blatant intent of the offense I'd expect any referee to award a red card.

I hadn't considered serious foul play, but still not sure it deserved a red. It was deliberate handball, no worse than someone sticking their arm out to stop a sideways pass on the half way line, and you wouldn't get a red for that.

If you stick an arm out to stop a through ball on the half way line though you would see red, as the next phase of play would likely be a chance

In the Arsenal case there was no chance of a continuation of play: the ball was going out of play, so I still think that it's just a deliberate handball and penalty tbh, just a dramatic and flagrant one.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by law90026

Just following on from all this: I still don't understand why soccer is so damn resistant to limited video replays during a match. With the amount of time spent on that situation during the match, the referee might as well have had the chance to watch a minute of video to make sure he got it right.

There's this big ivory tower inhabited by a bunch of fossils that has to be knocked over first. Until then, we'll be stuck without technology.

The same can be said about 'double punishment'. Although going through this thread, red card + penalty kick appears to get decent support around here.

[sovereignstar v2]

United suck balls.

[flere-imsaho]

I'm surprised it was only 3-0 City.