Werewolf XXXI: House of Frankenstein (Game Over)

[Swaggs]

Look, no offense to the deceased, but Blade throws a ton of theories out there. That is his game.

If we step back a bit, is there any reason to believe that he would know, for a fact, that Chief Rum was on the wolves' side? I don't see how, unless there are hidden roles and, at this point, I do not believe that there are, or else someone would have hopefully uncovered and revealed something of importance by now.

I don't see Chief Rum as a better suspect than Molson or SnDvls right now.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

the masons know who eachother are per the rules, but can't say anything.

if BK, I, Torgo, Swaggs and Gram all have molson on our list of baddies it speaks loudly to me that he isn't a mason...and is as strong of a canidate to be bad in my book.

yeah but i've already shown that i'm nothing special at this game yet.

molson just seems *off* to me

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Look, no offense to the deceased, but Blade throws a ton of theories out there. That is his game.

If we step back a bit, is there any reason to believe that he would know, for a fact, that Chief Rum was on the wolves' side? I don't see how, unless there are hidden roles and, at this point, I do not believe that there are, or else someone would have hopefully uncovered and revealed something of importance by now.

I don't see Chief Rum as a better suspect than Molson or SnDvls right now.

*shrug* I'd vote for any of the 3, although I guess SnDvls is significantly closer to being trusted on my list than the other 2.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by molson

But for what its worth, I wasn't calling for the masons to vote together. I just thought it was a potentially huge break that not one has been hit, and that its time for us to try to utilize them.

Sorry for the confusion. I was still building my case for SnDvls with that statement.

[Grammaticus]

Does anyone else feel it is odd as shiat that SnDvls threw out a bunch of who would you vote for scenarios? He never does anything like that.

[SnDvls]

5 of 12 players are suspect of molson it screams of baddie more than the big setup of blade last night

[molson]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

5 of 12 players are suspect of molson it screams of baddie more than the big setup of blade last night

We've done real well going with the "obvious" choice so far.

[DaddyTorgo]

i do agree with molson though, that we as villagers (whether he is one or not...i am still suspicious of him as this isn't an original thought of his) NEED to utilize the masons now. the fact that they know who each other are means that if we force a 2-3 way tie with statistically one mason in there they will know that one of those people is good, so they ought to have a better chance than our shots in the dark.

does that make any sense? I'm not sure how to put into words why i feel the masons ending up with ties is to our advantage...can anyone help?

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Does anyone else feel it is odd as shiat that SnDvls threw out a bunch of who would you vote for scenarios? He never does anything like that.

I did it because we as villagers have nothing to go on in this game as far as we know.

no seer
no bodyguard

if we don't start getting some discussion about people out there now it won't help down the road later.

talk about me, heck talk about anyone...it will only help down the road as we have nothing else to go on right now.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by molson

We've done real well going with the "obvious" choice so far.

speak for yourself I didn't vote Blade

[Swaggs]

Do we think Reimann can determine whether a human is a mason or whether they are just humans or wolves?

I have been thinking about his role a bit, and one thing to think about is that, if he has managed to come across a wolf already, he would probably wait for that wolf to vote before placing his vote. So, he is probably not likely to have been the first person to vote in any of the past couple of days or in the next few OR he may be likely to change his vote to match that of the werewolf he "trusts."

Although I probably just blew that for him.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i do agree with molson though, that we as villagers (whether he is one or not...i am still suspicious of him as this isn't an original thought of his) NEED to utilize the masons now. the fact that they know who each other are means that if we force a 2-3 way tie with statistically one mason in there they will know that one of those people is good, so they ought to have a better chance than our shots in the dark.

does that make any sense? I'm not sure how to put into words why i feel the masons ending up with ties is to our advantage...can anyone help?

I think at this point that would be poor form. The wolves know who the good guys are and would just move at the last minute to force any good guy to die, then get another night kill and the game would be almost over, depending upon how many wolves there are.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I did it because we as villagers have nothing to go on in this game as far as we know.

no seer
no bodyguard

if we don't start getting some discussion about people out there now it won't help down the road later.

talk about me, heck talk about anyone...it will only help down the road as we have nothing else to go on right now.

i agree with this. especially because our special ability people only come into play with ties, so it's more difficult to determine who is "safe" to trust through a voting record if we don't have any ties to go on. therefore all we have is discussion and throwing things out there and hopefully something someone throws out will resonate with someone else, or we'll hit on someone eventually.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Stupid question alert:

What are masons?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i do agree with molson though, that we as villagers (whether he is one or not...i am still suspicious of him as this isn't an original thought of his) NEED to utilize the masons now. the fact that they know who each other are means that if we force a 2-3 way tie with statistically one mason in there they will know that one of those people is good, so they ought to have a better chance than our shots in the dark.

does that make any sense? I'm not sure how to put into words why i feel the masons ending up with ties is to our advantage...can anyone help?

The fact that both you and SnDvls are suggesting that the masons all vote together, when it should be obvious that they would all already be thinking that, makes you two appear to be non-masons. Which isn't good in my book, since I know that I am one of the few non-masons and non-badguys remaining and that there can't be too many of us left.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I think at this point that would be poor form. The wolves know who the good guys are and would just move at the last minute to force any good guy to die, then get another night kill and the game would be almost over, depending upon how many wolves there are.

so we basically just have one more "shot in the dark" and we hafta hope we hit a baddie or else we're fucked and the game is over?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Stupid question alert:

What are masons?

From page 1:

Masons - have seen each other at mason meetings, and know they are not guilty of any crimes. Tie votes will be broken by the masons, without revealing their identity. No pm capabilities, and if they reveal that they are a mason, they will die a horrible death.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Stupid question alert:

What are masons?

Hmmm. I understand why you'd be relatively quiet in this game, but I'm not sure I buy that you didn't read the rules on post #1.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Stupid question alert:

What are masons?

See post 1

Masons are villagers who know each other - they know they are villagers, cannot pm, cannot reveal who they are, and have the ability to break tie votes.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

The fact that both you and SnDvls are suggesting that the masons all vote together, when it should be obvious that they would all already be thinking that, makes you two appear to be non-masons. Which isn't good in my book, since I know that I am one of the few non-masons and non-badguys remaining and that there can't be too many of us left.

okay, just doing the math, not trying to put myself into any sort of COT and arouse suspiscion

3 masons + you+me+sndvls=6 good guys


how many total players left?

[DaddyTorgo]

does anyone want to do the dirty work and post a complete breakdown of how everyone has voted so far?

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

The fact that both you and SnDvls are suggesting that the masons all vote together, when it should be obvious that they would all already be thinking that, makes you two appear to be non-masons. Which isn't good in my book, since I know that I am one of the few non-masons and non-badguys remaining and that there can't be too many of us left.

I never suggested this...please find a quote for me.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

so we basically just have one more "shot in the dark" and we hafta hope we hit a baddie or else we're fucked and the game is over?

I don't think so.

Dracula doesn't know who the wolves are, so he can't vote with them. Reimann may or may not know who a wolf or wolves are, at this point, but it is doubtful he has found more than one at this point, as he would probably be looking at the same people that we have found suspicious (likely that Gramm and Blade were two of his picks) so that he could align with their votes. Both Dracula and Reimann are wildcards to the wolves at this point.

The wolves probably have no more (I hope) than a 3 person voting block.

We still have the masons working for us and they will not vote for themselves, so we have that going for us. I have no idea how many there are, but I would hope there are 3+, since we have no other way to help ourselves.

[molson]

This is probably bad form, so I'm not suggesting it, but if all the villagers who aren't masons posted, "I am not a mason", then we'd have a pretty good idea of who's who. Sure, the 5 evil doers will try to screw it up, but I bet it would give us some good data. Of course, if we could actually knock of an bad guy, it would be even more effective.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

okay, just doing the math, not trying to put myself into any sort of COT and arouse suspiscion

3 masons + you+me+sndvls=6 good guys


how many total players left?

12 players left still

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

so we basically just have one more "shot in the dark" and we hafta hope we hit a baddie or else we're fucked and the game is over?

If there are 12 player left and we lynch a villager and another villager is night killed, that leaves 10 left.

If there were 4 wolves and the Count, the game would be 5-5 and over???

If there are 3 wolves and the Count, it would be 4-6, with one of those 6 being Dr. R, working against us. We would know who a wolf is that jumped the tie. OR worse, Dr. R would make the power move jumping the tie and we would lynch him, which is yet again a villager and game over.

NO I do not like the idea of setting up a tie right now.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by molson

This is probably bad form, so I'm not suggesting it, but if all the villagers who aren't masons posted, "I am not a mason", then we'd have a pretty good idea of who's who. Sure, the 5 evil doers will try to screw it up, but I bet it would give us some good data. Of course, if we could actually knock of an bad guy, it would be even more effective.

Molson, the only person that would want to out a Mason is a wolf.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

We would know who a wolf is that jumped the tie. OR worse, Dr. R would make the power move jumping the tie and we would lynch him, which is yet again a villager and game over.

the wording of this is confusing to me...explain? why would we know? the power move?

[DaddyTorgo]

i wouldn't like to out a mason, but i'd like to investigate a bit and see if there's a way i can be more certain of who the masons are so i don't waste a vote on a mason...

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by molson

This is probably bad form, so I'm not suggesting it, but if all the villagers who aren't masons posted, "I am not a mason", then we'd have a pretty good idea of who's who. Sure, the 5 evil doers will try to screw it up, but I bet it would give us some good data. Of course, if we could actually knock of an bad guy, it would be even more effective.

Alright... this is earning you my vote. I am guessing you are either Reimann or Dracula, as I don't think a group of wolves would have allowed you to keep making this an issue.

Vote Molson

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

the wording of this is confusing to me...explain? why would we know? the power move?

If we setup a tie and someone jumped at the last minute causing a lynch (not by tie) and that was a good guy that got lynched. The jumber would be a wolf or Dr. R. So, we would know they are bad.

We would logically lynch that person next day and if that was Dr. R, we would be lynching our headcount thus ending the game.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Molson, the only person that would want to out a Mason is a wolf.

I guess I'm tying to think of ways where that's not necessarily true. Is there a way, statistically, that knowledge of masons would allow us one guaranteed wolf kill, that would be worth the wolves' slow subsequent extermination of masons. Probably not, but I'm just trying to spark some creativity in their usage.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

If we setup a tie and someone jumped at the last minute causing a lynch (not by tie) and that was a good guy that got lynched. The jumber would be a wolf or Dr. R. So, we would know they are bad.

We would logically lynch that person next day and if that was Dr. R, we would be lynching our headcount thus ending the game.

gotcha. i understand now. and yep, that makes sense


FWIW, I've moved away from the idea of a tie. I just hope to hell that we can hit a baddie on this next vote or I think we may be close to finished. So I think I'll mull my vote over until the last minute tomorrow and see what develops tomorrow while I'm at work.

Popular opinion seems to be leaning towards Molson, which is certainly a choice I could live with. But as I've stated, I could also live with a choice of ChiefRum or even Farrah.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

I think you're reading too much into things. I've been quiet because I'm trying to get a hold on how to play.I don't usually play games like this, so I'm trying to take it slow.

This thread adds three or four pages everytime I log in so I spend most of my time trying to catch up. I skip a lot of posts. Honestly didn't see bullet's post asking for my opinion. If it's still wanted now, I'm really stumped. I thought for sure Blade was a wolf.

Believe me, I completely understand about being quiet because you're getting the gist of the game, but some of the stuff just doesn't add up. I like you and all but frankly, I don't buy this excuse. You're a lot smarter than you're leading on.

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

You know the guys in this game are so hoping for a cat fight right now.

I seriously doubt that, there are more important things than a chick fight at this point and Chief Rum's quote doesn't mean squat.

[DaddyTorgo]

i guess if we had a small enough list of good suspects.

Night One - 3 way tie with 3 good suspects.

Hypothetically we lynch one villager and the wolves kill one mason with the "4 wolves + dr reiman" scenario = 5-5 count and the game is over.

Otherwise it's 6-4 with the "3 wolves+reiman" scenario and we have one more night.

Thinking about this I don't think it would work, unless our numbers (or the wolves numbers) were really small.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Alright... this is earning you my vote. I am guessing you are either Reimann or Dracula, as I don't think a group of wolves would have allowed you to keep making this an issue.

Vote Molson

Please - my statement hasn't helped/hurt anyone. If it was just wrong, so what. I'm reaching for anything.

I'm sure some of the molson voters and just mistaken. But some of them are thinking, "well here's today's obvious mark - the villagers will blow another vote on him".

[Lorena]

dola,

Hope your wife gets better Swaggs.

[SnDvls]

swaggs please answer my question from post #1372

[Swaggs]

Can someone review the case against Chief Rum for me? I admit I didn't read through some of this thread real carefully the past couple of days, although did try to at least skim every post, but he seems to be a popular choice for a few people.

[DaddyTorgo]

so do we find out after the game is over who everyone was? or not?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Does anyone else feel it is odd as shiat that SnDvls threw out a bunch of who would you vote for scenarios? He never does anything like that.

Yeah that struck me as very out of character for SnDvls. Almsot like he was trying to find out who the masons might be. Not sure if that makes him a good guy or bad guy. Would lean towards a bad guy.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

so do we find out after the game is over who everyone was? or not?

Yes. Roles are normally revealed at the end of the game.

[DaddyTorgo]

cool. that should help us newb-villagers learn a bit more about things

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Can someone review the case against Chief Rum for me? I admit I didn't read through some of this thread real carefully the past couple of days, although did try to at least skim every post, but he seems to be a popular choice for a few people.

A big part of the case against rum is that Blade flet for sure that he was bad. Blade has now been proven to be good so some feel this speaks ill of Rum. Blade was sure his gut was telling him Rum was bad, just to stress the strength of Blade's feeling on the subject.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

A big part of the case against rum is that Blade flet for sure that he was bad. Blade has now been proven to be good so some feel this speaks ill of Rum. Blade was sure his gut was telling him Rum was bad, just to stress the strength of Blade's feeling on the subject.

*shrug* it feels almost like a promise to a dying friend at this point. but i guess that's silly and sentimental since blade isn't actually "dead" and i certainly don't want to waste my vote.

but blade must have had a reason for thinking CR was a baddie.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

swaggs please answer my question from post #1372

SnDvls, I glossed over this the first time around because I didn't want to draw attention to it, but I don't want to look guilty, so here goes:

Your little game of "if you were a mason...", to me, is a very blatent attempt to try to out the masons by getting them to participate and then grouping them together to see whose choices match up. If you are a wolf, as I suspect you are, you would already know your fellow wolves and would be able to match anyone else that participated in it up, as they would obviously not choose other masons.

[st.cronin]

If anybody has any thoughts or concerns about playing this weekend please let me know. I can run a normal schedule, if everybody thinks they can play.

[bulletsponge]

finaly some good readin to do, 2 pages.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

SnDvls, I glossed over this the first time around because I didn't want to draw attention to it, but I don't want to look guilty, so here goes:

Your little game of "if you were a mason...", to me, is a very blatent attempt to try to out the masons by getting them to participate and then grouping them together to see whose choices match up. If you are a wolf, as I suspect you are, you would already know your fellow wolves and would be able to match anyone else that participated in it up, as they would obviously not choose other masons.

intriguing swaggs. but i suspect the vet among the wolves would already be scrutinizing the voting records to try to find the "mason bloc"

then again, presuming there was someone at least remotely smart within the masons they would ensure that THEY at least would not vote with the other masons in order to keep themselves concealed.

i'm not worried about all the masons being revealed. and if i'm the wolves i'm not worried about the masons either, at least not at this point, as we villagers havn't exactly had great success in finding the baddies and we're teetering on the brink anyways.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Can someone review the case against Chief Rum for me? I admit I didn't read through some of this thread real carefully the past couple of days, although did try to at least skim every post, but he seems to be a popular choice for a few people.

Swaggs, take this for what it's worth, since of course, this is me trying to clear myself, but I think a few people have fallen victim to the "I heard this guy screaming his accusation so much, I gotta believe him, right?" theory.

As you said, Blade at no point presented anything of a case against me, or even much I could even defend myself. He just kept saying I was number one on his list for some reason. What few reasons he gave seemed pretty weak to me.

I think it is far more likely Blade couldn't find too many incriminating things to say about anyone besides him and picked a couple (Anxiety and I) he thought he could yell about enough to sway us. It had nothing to do with any special inferences--he was just trying to save his butt by going after anyone but him. Notice his conviction wasn't so strong to stick on me when molson became a viable alternative earlier today.