The OFFICIAL 2008-09 NHL Playoffs Thread

[Schmidty]

Edit:

Nevermind.

[Tekneek]

Detroit should not be allowed to stir up anything either. Misconducts for them as well, if you really want to be fair.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Detroit should not be allowed to stir up anything either. Misconducts for them as well, if you really want to be fair.

I haven't seen anything that Detroit has instigated. Not one. I might have missed something while I was getting some chips, but that would only account for like 30 seconds.

[Schmidty]

Reading through my posts, I am the quintessential asshole fan. I would hate me if I were from the other side.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by bbor

Good article...although it bothered me to no end that they called him Mr.Helm through the whole article.

The Wall Street Journal always does that in its sports articles.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by samifan24

The Wall Street Journal always does that in its sports articles.

Yep.

Still disconcerting as a regular sports reader though.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Would not be shocked at all to see this go 7. But Fleury has to be able to win at the Joe for game 7 to mean anything (for Pittsburgh anyway).

[bbor]

Originally Posted by samifan24

The Wall Street Journal always does that in its sports articles.

Why?

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by bbor

Why?

Tradition, I guess. They always refer to people as Mr. or Ms. in their business articles so I guess the practice carried over to their sports articles. It doesn't really bother me.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

What a bunch of bullshit.

Star Cam?? Yet they only are following Crosby and Malkin. Damn, I haven't been a big believer in the "Pens Must Win for the NHL" conspiracy theory, but I'll be damned if shit like that doesn't fuel the fire. Shit, I guess that even though Zetterberg and Datsyuk are as good or better overall than Crosby and Malkin, they aren't "stars". That rubs me the wrong way.

I've never understood this whole conspiracy theory angle. There's no way there is any type of conspiracy going on. How would it work exactly? How many different people would have to be involved? Would anything the NHL could possibly gain from the successful execution of such a conspiracy ever be worth all the potential harm the league would suffer if such a conspiracy would ever be exposed?

There were some Wings fan in an email list I am on commenting on how "sad" and "unhappy" Gary Bettman looked at the game last night when the NBC cameras showed him in the stands. What is he supposed to be waving one of those pom-poms? He's the commissioner of the league, not a fan. I am no Bettman apologist, but to think there is some conspiracy going on or he's anti-Red Wings or Pro-Penguins or anti-Zetterberg or pro-Crosby is just silly nonsense.

As for the iso-cams or star cams or whatever they are, there are folks in the NHL who are responsible for marketing and selling the sport. Obviously, somebody somewhere decided that focusing on Malkin and Crosby is the best way to do that. One could disagree about that, but it's hardly something to get all bent out of shape around.

Detroit fans have always been very prickily about lack of respect and what not.

As for Game 5. The Penguins were playing pretty well until that first goal, which was very weak on Fluery's part. After that, the Wings seemed to find some confidence and took over in the second. I don't think any of the next 4 goals could really be blamed on Fleury.

If it's one thing this series has taught us is not to get too high or too low after a victory or loss. I could easily see this thing going to 7 and then it's a toss-up.

[Schmidty]

You're way too much of a kiss-up, HB.

[Schmidty]

Why do teams continue to think that they can try to push the Wings with dirty plays? Nothing ever, ever comes of it, other than the idiotic opposition making asses of themselves. Take the slash by Talbot on Datsyuk. Just stupid crap.

Talbot slash brings Clarke to mind - Sportsnet.ca

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

You're way too much of a kiss-up, HB.

I am the Ying to balance out your Yang.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Why do teams continue to think that they can try to push the Wings with dirty plays? Nothing ever, ever comes of it, other than the idiotic opposition making asses of themselves. Take the slash by Talbot on Datsyuk. Just stupid crap.

Talbot slash brings Clarke to mind - Sportsnet.ca

You must be talking about another team because the Pens never give out cheap hits.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I've never understood this whole conspiracy theory angle. There's no way there is any type of conspiracy going on. How would it work exactly? How many different people would have to be involved? Would anything the NHL could possibly gain from the successful execution of such a conspiracy ever be worth all the potential harm the league would suffer if such a conspiracy would ever be exposed?

There were some Wings fan in an email list I am on commenting on how "sad" and "unhappy" Gary Bettman looked at the game last night when the NBC cameras showed him in the stands. What is he supposed to be waving one of those pom-poms? He's the commissioner of the league, not a fan. I am no Bettman apologist, but to think there is some conspiracy going on or he's anti-Red Wings or Pro-Penguins or anti-Zetterberg or pro-Crosby is just silly nonsense.

As for the iso-cams or star cams or whatever they are, there are folks in the NHL who are responsible for marketing and selling the sport. Obviously, somebody somewhere decided that focusing on Malkin and Crosby is the best way to do that. One could disagree about that, but it's hardly something to get all bent out of shape around.

Detroit fans have always been very prickily about lack of respect and what not.

As for Game 5. The Penguins were playing pretty well until that first goal, which was very weak on Fluery's part. After that, the Wings seemed to find some confidence and took over in the second. I don't think any of the next 4 goals could really be blamed on Fleury.

If it's one thing this series has taught us is not to get too high or too low after a victory or loss. I could easily see this thing going to 7 and then it's a toss-up.

I love people who push the conspiracy agenda, but can not explain how the Pens haven't won a cup, or while they get away with too many men on the ice, the PP in the series were actually in favor of Detroit heading into last night, 10 to 9.

As for the bolded part, agree 100%. Based on what we heard after games 1 and 2, Pittsburgh had no shot. And after games 3 and 4, Detroit was on the ropes. Momentum doesn't extend beyond the next shift

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Why do teams continue to think that they can try to push the Wings with dirty plays? Nothing ever, ever comes of it, other than the idiotic opposition making asses of themselves. Take the slash by Talbot on Datsyuk. Just stupid crap.

Talbot slash brings Clarke to mind - Sportsnet.ca

Maybe it's my black and gold glasses, but equal to Clarke's? Really? Did Talbot even have two hands on his stick?

I look forward to this guy's follow up article comparing Draper's butt-end to Staal's face to either Bertuzzi or McSorley.

I really don't think Talbot was trying to push Detroit into anything- game was over at that point. He was frustrated.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Not that this series is over....

Red Wings fans, what are your thoughts on Hossa? I read that there is a deal in place, but it won't be signed until after the Finals.

Do you want to keep him? And at what price?

He's playing a great defensive game still, but offensively...nothing. Seems more like he's reverted to his Ottawa days and it more of a passenger than a premier guy.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Not that this series is over....

Red Wings fans, what are your thoughts on Hossa? I read that there is a deal in place, but it won't be signed until after the Finals.

Do you want to keep him? And at what price?

He's playing a great defensive game still, but offensively...nothing. Seems more like he's reverted to his Ottawa days and it more of a passenger than a premier guy.

I would like to keep Hossa. He has fit in very well. With the Wings, a team game is the first priority, thus he is not expected to put up monster numbers like in Ottawa. With that being said, I would like to see him put up a little more offense in the postseason, but overall I am happy with his performance.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Not that this series is over....

Red Wings fans, what are your thoughts on Hossa? I read that there is a deal in place, but it won't be signed until after the Finals.

Do you want to keep him? And at what price?

He's playing a great defensive game still, but offensively...nothing. Seems more like he's reverted to his Ottawa days and it more of a passenger than a premier guy.

Not surprisingly, this debate has come up quite a bit of late on local sportstalk radio.

I really haven't put too much thought into it, since I never really believed the Wings would sign both Franzen and Hossa.

The second question is the right one to ask: At what price. Despite his lack of production in these playoffs, he's an incredibly talented player and can be a force out there both defensively and offensively. So, of course, I'd like to see him stay.

Though I think it could be a mistake to tie up too many players to too many long term deals worth too much. That's just putting a lot of eggs in one basket and not giving your team any cap flexibility. It's impossible to know what the cap will look like year from year or when you'll need the money to re-sign a good, up and coming player (e.g., Helm, Ericsson, Hulder, etc.) or what needs will suddenly need to be addressed (goaltending post-Chris Osgood, who is turning out to be an incredible bargain).

It is also beginning to look like last year was the exception to Hossa's performance in the playoffs rather than the rule. That said, it's not like he's been invisible out there. I think he's a great player and it's been a joy watching him play this year.

So, to answer the question, yes, I'd like to see the Wings keep him. I just don't see how they'd be able to pay him enough. If he's willing to take $5.5 - $6 million a year (capwise), the Wings are really right up against it, assuming the cap stays about the same. I can't see Hossa going for anything lower than that (as even that is pushing it).

[B & B]

His lack of scoring is not due to his clear 'shoot first' mentality. Many times during this final series and the one vs CHI he has simply looked slow on the ice. He just doesnt seem to be showing that extra gear that you see from guys like Henrik and Helm. Just an observation.

[DataKing]

Hossa may not be the fastest guy out there, but what always impressed me is how strong he is on his skates, especially while holding the puck in the offensive zone. He reminds me of Sergei Federov in his prime in that respect. And you need guys like that in order to play the puck-possession game the Wings are famous for. It may not always show up on the score-sheet, but Hossa is one of the best guys in the league at gaining the zone and maintaining puck-possession IMO.

In that respect, I'd love to see the Wings sign him to another deal, but at some point you have to wonder where the cap-room is going to come from. They already have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen locked down to long-term deals. At some point you're going to have to start paying the up-and-coming guys that have shown up in the playoffs. Can you imagine how other GMs in the league must be salivating over the idea of snatching up Darren Helm at some point because the Wings can't afford to pay him?

The biggest saving grace the Wings have with regards to the cap is in net. Ozzie is an absolute steal at 1.3m per year (approx). But at some point you figure blue-liners like Stuart and Kronwall are going to command some pretty good dollars too, right? Lidstrom and Rafalski can't do it forever. (OK...maybe Lidstrom can...but I'm pretty sure the guy isn't even human).

TL;DR. So long as they can make it work without hurting the team's long-term future, then by all means sign Hossa. But don't mortgage the future to do it (and I have no doubt this is Ken Holland's thinking as well).

[Suburban Rhythm]

Lidstrom has 1 more year left on this contract, correct?

I think an underrated part of the long term deals is all were signed while Lidstrom was still around, so the de facto $7.45M cap was in place, so it was a little easier to get Z and Datsyuk to agree to those deals.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Lidstrom has 1 more year left on this contract, correct?

I think an underrated part of the long term deals is all were signed while Lidstrom was still around, so the de facto $7.45M cap was in place, so it was a little easier to get Z and Datsyuk to agree to those deals.

Yes, one more year.

While the role of the de facto $7.45M cap can't be overlooked, based on the recent Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Franzen deals the Wings have pretty much established what they consider "market value" for certain types of players.

I don't think Lidstrom's salary figure really played a significant part in anything other than the 1 year Hossa deal.

If a player is interested in coming to Detroit, and Holland says, "I'm sorry, your per yer cap hit can't be any higher than Zetterberg's/Datsyuk's", 99 players out of 100 will just have to accept that fact without much argument.

[Honolulu_Blue]

This is totally unrelated to the playoffs, but...

Has Lathum finally found some validation for one of the all time great FOFC Draft blunders?

See:

Originally Posted by Lathum

6.4 Power Forward Danny Heatly- ottowa, atlanta

2 time 50 gaol scorer with an outside shot at this year.

Won Calder Trophy, 3 time all star, all star game MVP, holds numerous Senators records.

Originally Posted by E.J. Hradek

Change of scenery? Dany Heatley may want out of Ottawa - ESPN

PITTSBURGH -- Is Senators winger Dany Heatley seeking his ticket out of Ottawa? Sources tell me that is the case.
According to those sources, Ottawa GM Bryan Murray has been notified of Heatley's desire for a change of scenery and is mulling his options. On the record, though, Murray said Heatley is still a Senator.

"We signed him to a long-term deal and we expect him to honor it," Murray told ESPN.com's Pierre LeBrun on Tuesday morning. "At this point in time, he's a Senator."

Murray could retool the Senators' roster by moving Heatley. Of course, any trading partner would have to have the budget room necessary to accommodate the remaining five years of Heatley's deal, which counts for $7.5 million against the cap. Heatley is thought to be interested in a move to the Western Conference.

The 28-year-old power forward signed a six-year, $45 million contract extension (complete with a no-trade clause) with the Senators in Oct. 2007, just four months after helping the club to its first Cup finals appearance. Since then, however, the Senators have plummeted down the Eastern Conference standings, missing the playoffs this past season.

[MikeVic]

LOL.

[Dr. Sak]

And Brent Sutter quit as NJ Coach

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=281325

[MikeVic]

Calgary now?

[Pumpy Tudors]

I liked Sutter, so I'll miss him. Still, I don't know how responsible he is for the Devils being incompetent in their own zone. Neutral zone? Fine. Offensive zone? Better than ever. Defensive zone? Please shoot me.

Maybe Lou will just hire himself for the whole season. That would be some epic comedy right there.

[MikeVic]

Or player-coach Colin White.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Or player-coach Colin White.

OH KISS MY ASS

[MikeVic]

asswhite.

[RomaGoth]

Red Wings should take the Cup tonight. The Pens will come out fast, so if we can withstand the initial barrage, the game should go our way. With that being said, if we fall behind early we may be headed back to Detroit on Friday.

[B & B]

Think that the only way the Pens win tonight is with their PP. Really dont want to see a bunch of marginal calls going one-way for the black and gold. Im calling this out before the game tonight, and everyone watching will know if the officiating is lopsided and say four of the first five penalties are on DET.

The refs have swallowed their whistles for much of these finals, last game was the exception but with those ridiculous slashes (Im looking at you Maxime) they really had no choice. Pitt obviously lost their composure and that simply doesnt happen to a veteran team like Det.

Off to the store to pick up a few Molsens!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by B & B

Think that the only way the Pens win tonight is with their PP. Really dont want to see a bunch of marginal calls going one-way for the black and gold. Im calling this out before the game tonight, and everyone watching will know if the officiating is lopsided and say four of the first five penalties are on DET.

I agree that specialty teams are important. They are a key reason why the Penguins won Games 3 and 4 and the Wings won Game 5. If the Wings can kill off penalties and their power play is going, they should have a good shot at this.

Beyond that first sentence... Is this more conpsiracy theory chatter? That the refs will some how be calling marignal penalties against Detroit in order to force a Game 7 because the NHL either wants this series to go 7 games or, in the alternative, really wants Crosby and the Penguins to win the Cup? I don't buy any of that. At all. If the Wings start taking penalties more likely than not it's becaue the Penguins are on fire and drawing them. The crowd may be a bit of a factor, but no more than typical.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

And Brent Sutter quit as NJ Coach

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=281325

Rumors have Sutter returning to become coach of the junior Red Deer Rebels, the team he owns.

[Pyser]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I liked Sutter, so I'll miss him. Still, I don't know how responsible he is for the Devils being incompetent in their own zone. Neutral zone? Fine. Offensive zone? Better than ever. Defensive zone? Please shoot me.

Maybe Lou will just hire himself for the whole season. That would be some epic comedy right there.

fuck sutter. he quit on the team, and you wonder why they quit on him with 80 seconds left in game 7

im glad hes gone. great coach, but it seemed like it was about him a lot more than the team.

im just mad at him right now overall. thanks for waiting so long to quit too, jerkoff.

[B & B]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Is this more conpsiracy theory chatter? That the refs will some how be calling marignal penalties against Detroit in order to force a Game 7 because the NHL either wants this series to go 7 games .

Call it what you want.

Both penalties came versus DET and were caused/instigated by PIT. I repeat, BOTH. Watch replays if you dont agree. Penguin fully runs into the alleged 'trip' vs. Fillipula. Refs obliged.

Im done with this.

Wont comment further and still fully expect DET to win this game, but Im not shocked that these early BULLSHIT calls went against the wings. Just as predicted.

[Dr. Sak]

The worst part about that goalie intereference was that the ref right in front of the action called NOTHING...it was the guy in the neutral zone who called it.

[Matthean]

Well, 12-3 shots on goal for the Pens and the Wings killed two power plays so the Wings have to be feeling good so far for it to be tied.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Or player-coach Colin White.

I like this idea.

[RomaGoth]

I am still not sure why the Wings are offensively challenged on the road in this series. I am sure the crowd has a little bit to do with it, but seriously....2 + 2 + 1 goals so far in three road games? I never realized Melon arena offered such a huge home ice advantage.

Whether the Wings win the Cup or not, the referees have not been consistent at all in the playoffs this year.

[RomaGoth]

Dola

Very disappointed in tonight's result.

With that being said, I do not see the Wings losing a game 7 at home.

Should be good.

[Dr. Sak]

What a game! Hats off to the Pens...for the majority of the game they kept Detroit shooting from bad angles.

[muns]

heck of a game tonight. Really looking forward to fridays game 7

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I am still not sure why the Wings are offensively challenged on the road in this series. I am sure the crowd has a little bit to do with it, but seriously....2 + 2 + 1 goals so far in three road games? I never realized Melon arena offered such a huge home ice advantage.

I think maybe it has a lot to do with their strategy of shooting wide and looking for those fat bounces of the rocker boards. It just doesn't seem to work very well on the boards in Pittsburgh, or they aren't adjusting to the difference or something.

It might also be that MAF is rising to the occasion at home, and shrinking a bit on the road.

[Tekneek]

Guys. Give it a rest. Wings' skaters (not the goalie) gloved the puck in the crease 3 times in the first 2 games. All 3 should have been immediate penalty shots. None were called. End of discussion on the bias of the officiating.

[Pumpy Tudors]

In AHL news, Manitoba wins at Hershey to stay in the Calder Cup series and send the series back to Winnipeg. Hershey is up 3 games to 2. I was at game 3 in Hershey, and it was a great atmosphere. I'm cheering for the Hershey Bears, but the Moose are a tough team, and there's no guarantee that Hershey can finish this series off, especially on the road.

I'm all about the minor leagues, baby. Also, congrats to the South Carolina Stingrays for winning the Kelly Cup in the ECHL.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Guys. Give it a rest. Wings' skaters (not the goalie) gloved the puck in the crease 3 times in the first 2 games. All 3 should have been immediate penalty shots. None were called. End of discussion on the bias of the officiating.

Come on, what's a sports thread without the fans of the losing team blaming the officiating???

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

In AHL news, Manitoba wins at Hershey to stay in the Calder Cup series and send the series back to Winnipeg. Hershey is up 3 games to 2. I was at game 3 in Hershey, and it was a great atmosphere. I'm cheering for the Hershey Bears, but the Moose are a tough team, and there's no guarantee that Hershey can finish this series off, especially on the road.

I'm all about the minor leagues, baby. Also, congrats to the South Carolina Stingrays for winning the Kelly Cup in the ECHL.

It's sad, I should care about the Mooses, but I just can't. I could get behind a WHL team, but every Moose game I've ever attended was a snooze fest filled with pointless fights and constant t-shirt cannons.

Still, I'm happy for all the folks that have been following them all these years since the Jets, they deserve to see some sort of successful team in this town for once.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

In AHL news, Manitoba wins at Hershey to stay in the Calder Cup series and send the series back to Winnipeg. Hershey is up 3 games to 2. I was at game 3 in Hershey, and it was a great atmosphere. I'm cheering for the Hershey Bears, but the Moose are a tough team, and there's no guarantee that Hershey can finish this series off, especially on the road.

I'm all about the minor leagues, baby. Also, congrats to the South Carolina Stingrays for winning the Kelly Cup in the ECHL.

Cheering against the Moose.... Pumpy....

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Guys. Give it a rest. Wings' skaters (not the goalie) gloved the puck in the crease 3 times in the first 2 games. All 3 should have been immediate penalty shots. None were called. End of discussion on the bias of the officiating.

Never said anything about the bias of officiating. The calls, or non-calls, have been poor for both teams. I just want some consistency from the refs for a change.