The Official MLB 2007 Thread

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Round is distinctive?

Well, it's distinct in that there's no blurring what shape it is now, isn't it?

[Ksyrup]

Wily Mo Pena makes Manny look like a Gold Glove OFer.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Wily Mo Pena makes Manny look like a Gold Glove OFer.

You would've thought that a monster HR was hit by the sheer fact Willy Mo didn't move until the ball hit the base of the wall.

[DeToxRox]

Dola

Marcus Thames may have the most power of anyone in the MLB.

Between the two bombs in Washington and the HR he just mashed to CF, he is hitting some shots.

[DeToxRox]

Dola

Marcus Thames may have the most power of anyone in the MLB.

Between the two bombs in Washington and the HR he just mashed to CF, he is hitting some shots.

[DeToxRox]

WOW!

Curtis Granderson catch of the year. Jesus christ.

[Ksyrup]

Granderson just one-upped Beltran's play from last night. Wow!!!!

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by Logan

First off...amazing catch. The concentration it must take to make that play going up the hill is something I can't even fathom. Didn't Edmonds make a similar catch a few years back? I think his might have been even more impressive (and I'm a Met fan).

I have a question for the Astros fans...why all the hatred for Beltran? I haven't heard an opposing player get so mercilessly booed by a crowd since John Rocker made his first post-NY subway-related interview appearance at Shea. Yes, he spurned you guys to join a team for more money (actually, I think the Yankee offer he would've preferred might have been less than Houston's, but that's besides the point...), but he was a rent-a-player, not a guy who devoted six or so years to the organization and was the team's heart and soul. And not only did he not owe you anything for his half season with Houston, but he turned in arguably the greatest playoff performance of all-time to get you close to the World Series.

Seriously, what's up your collective asses? I can't think of other examples where a player who was on a team for a few months and then signed elsewhere and was booed like he was Hitler. From a Mets perspective, when we made a huge deal for Mike Hampton prior to the 2000 season, and he was an important piece to a World Series team...when he signed a big deal with Colorado, he didn't become Public Enemy #1.

I was waiting on Jeeber to come in here and answer this one, but since he is slow today...

The reason for the hatred for Carlos Beltran is because when the Astros and Mets were both competing for Carlos to sign with their teams, Carlos was at home in Puerto Rico. His agent, Scott Boras, allowed the Mets to come visit Carlos at his house but denied Houston representatives any access to Carlos during that time. So of course he went to the Mets instead. That is why Astro fans treat Carlos so negatively. They feel that they were treated wrongly by Carlos and his agent.

[Chief Rum]

It's amazing to me we're still in first place at the All Star break (albeit barely) when two of our five starters are Bartolo Colon and Ervin Santana.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I was waiting on Jeeber to come in here and answer this one, but since he is slow today...

The reason for the hatred for Carlos Beltran is because when the Astros and Mets were both competing for Carlos to sign with their teams, Carlos was at home in Puerto Rico. His agent, Scott Boras, allowed the Mets to come visit Carlos at his house but denied Houston representatives any access to Carlos during that time. So of course he went to the Mets instead. That is why Astro fans treat Carlos so negatively. They feel that they were treated wrongly by Carlos and his agent.

So where does Carlos preferring to sign with the Yankees for less money than he got from the Mets fit into that?

[dawgfan]

Mariners are really on a roll - I'm hoping Bavasi can work out a deal for Buehrle (maybe for Balentien and Feierabend?) to give the rotation a boost.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Mariners are really on a roll - I'm hoping Bavasi can work out a deal for Buehrle (maybe for Balentien and Feierabend?) to give the rotation a boost.

Better check the sportswire, dawg. I doubt Buehrle's coming.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Better check the sportswire, dawg. I doubt Buehrle's coming.

Hmm, hadn't seen that report. Still, doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't be dealt, though I agree that it's doubtful at this point. I guess that just really depends on what kind of offers Williams gets - now that he has Buehrle under contract beyond this season, he's got more leverage to extract top prospects.

[dawgfan]

Dola - I'd say at this point though that, given what's out there, about the only deal I could see that would really benefit the M's would be to try and get Lidge as an 8th inning guy to set up Putz and allow the M's to send Morrow to the minors to develop as a starter.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Hmm, hadn't seen that report. Still, doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't be dealt, though I agree that it's doubtful at this point. I guess that just really depends on what kind of offers Williams gets - now that he has Buehrle under contract beyond this season, he's got more leverage to extract top prospects.

Aren't there rules against trading a guy like thta who is about to start a longterm extension? Anyway, I just don't think the White Sox would bother to sign him to a long term contract just to extract top prospects in a trade. I think they finally realized they were being to cheap and Chicagolanders would view letting Buerhle go as extremely negative.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Aren't there rules against trading a guy like thta who is about to start a longterm extension? Anyway, I just don't think the White Sox would bother to sign him to a long term contract just to extract top prospects in a trade. I think they finally realized they were being to cheap and Chicagolanders would view letting Buerhle go as extremely negative.

I'm not sure if there are any rules like that or not. Regardless, considering that Williams has always said he's not into rebuilding - he wants the team to be contenders next season - it wouldn't make much sense to deal Buehrle now that they have him locked up long-term, even if he could get a nice haul for him.

Now, whether the ChiSox can actually be contenders next season is a whole 'nother question, especially being in the same division as the young and very talented Indians and Tigers.

[Schmidty]

dawgfan - I'll be going to Mariner - Tigers game on Sunday. If you happen to get tickets or something, maybe I could say hello.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

dawgfan - I'll be going to Mariner - Tigers game on Sunday. If you happen to get tickets or something, maybe I could say hello.

I was considering trying to catch one of those games - it'll obviously be a huge series given the standings. I'll definitely let you know if I end up going to the Sunday game.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Katon

Well, a drug-boosted Neifi Perez is still Neifi Perez . . .

Damned if we don't know that in KC...

SI

[sterlingice]

Really good deal for the Sox on Buerhle. $14M per for him is probably $2-$3M below market value. More impressive is that it's a 4 year deal rather than the 5 or 6 he would have gotten in free agency.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

So ... who had the Padres & Brewers for the best records in the NL at the break in the office pool?

[dawgfan]

Rumors are flying around Seattle today that the M's and Ichiro are on the verge of agreement on a contract extension. Rumored terms are $100M/5 years.

[Young Drachma]

You know, they had some guy hit off of a tee for half a million bucks or something just now. They gave him 30 seconds. He didn't get one out of the infield. But I thought it was lame that they made him hit off of a tee.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Rumors are flying around Seattle today that the M's and Ichiro are on the verge of agreement on a contract extension. Rumored terms are $100M/5 years.

Wow.

I understand that Ichrio has a lot of added value from attracting fans from Japan, but wow.

[Logan]

I'd be amazed if he got $20MM a year.

[Ksyrup]

Doesn't shock me. The Mariners need to keep a major draw, he's Japanese, and he's showing he hasn't lost anything. He has an outside shot at 3000 hits if he plays this well for a few more years and sticks around into his 40s. That would be incredible.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Wow.

I understand that Ichrio has a lot of added value from attracting fans from Japan, but wow.

I think a lot of people are underestimating the on-field value Ichiro generates from his defensive ability. If you look at him strictly from his offensive contributions, yeah, he's not as valuable a hitter as a guys like Bonds, A-Rod, Vlad, Pujols. But when you add in his defensive value as a premium CF, he really does rate as an elite player. His ancillary benefits as a draw of Japanese dollars is just icing on the cake.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'd be amazed if he got $20MM a year.

It's at least what he would've gotten on the open market.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Insert typical Seattle optimist fanboy comment here.

Kidding aside, I actually agree with you.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

It's at least what he would've gotten on the open market.

I just don't think see it at all. Maybe $15-$17M but not $20M.

SI

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I just don't think see it at all. Maybe $15-$17M but not $20M.

SI

Revenue had just exploded across baseball - its more than 30-40% of what it was a couple of years ago. Think about it - a league average SP is looking at $11 million per year or whereabouts right now. Ichirio, with the perceived marketing draw, was going to get 5/90 or whereabouts easily. Additionally, Seattle is owned by Nintendo - keeping him could be more than a fiscal decision.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I just don't think see it at all. Maybe $15-$17M but not $20M.

SI

Soriano signed for 8 years/$136M. Soriano is younger, but Ichiro is a more productive hitter and a far superior fielder. The speculation I've read leading into and continuing through this season put Ichiro's open market value at upwards of $20M/year. One early example from ESPN here, and another from one of the local papers here.

Considering that had Ichiro reached free agency the Yankees would've been strong candidates to bid on him, I don't think $20M/year is at all a stretch.

Latest numbers I'm seeing on his rumored deal are a little lower - it might be $90M for 5 years.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I think a lot of people are underestimating the on-field value Ichiro generates from his defensive ability. If you look at him strictly from his offensive contributions, yeah, he's not as valuable a hitter as a guys like Bonds, A-Rod, Vlad, Pujols. But when you add in his defensive value as a premium CF, he really does rate as an elite player. His ancillary benefits as a draw of Japanese dollars is just icing on the cake.

The problem with this argument is that Adam Jones is geting called up, meaning one of them is going to be wasted by not playing CF. And it'll probably be Ichiro, but maybe he'll force them to move Jones to RF in order to sign.

[Ksyrup]

Is it just me, or is the Yankees' ARod extension talk an attempt to force his hand? Now he pretty much can't opt out, unless he wants to admit that he never had any intention of staying in NY.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The problem with this argument is that Adam Jones is geting called up, meaning one of them is going to be wasted by not playing CF. And it'll probably be Ichiro, but maybe he'll force them to move Jones to RF in order to sign.

There's no way Ichiro is getting displaced from CF. Jones is playing multiple OF spots in Tacoma right now, and while he's getting positive reviews for his improvement on defense, there's no way he's a better fielder than Ichiro. The reports have him going to RF, Guillen to LF and Ibanez to DH. Given the way Safeco is configured, I think they'd actually be better off leaving Guillen in RF and installing Jones in LF, but whatever.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is it just me, or is the Yankees' ARod extension talk an attempt to force his hand? Now he pretty much can't opt out, unless he wants to admit that he never had any intention of staying in NY.

Sure he can; he'd be stupid not to opt out. Then he attempts to negotiate a 7 year, $210 million deal. The chances of him getting a similar long-term deal 3 years from now isn't nearly as high as his chance of getting another big money, 3 year deal after a potential 7 year deal, or a large extension when he's approaching those last years.

The Yankees are doing this for 2 reasons:

1. To show their fans that they tried to sign him before he ends up going to Anaheim, Chicago, etc.
2. If he signs an extension, the Yankees still get all that money from Texas over the next 3 years. If he opts out and then they sign him, it's all on them.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Now he pretty much can't opt out, unless he wants to admit that he never had any intention of staying in NY.

As a Boras client, I'd be very, very surprised if he doesn't utilize his opt-out clause. From a financial standpoint, he'd be an idiot to not do so. And given how brutal the fanbase was with him last year, and the notable lack of support from his teammates and manager at many points, I can't really see an emotional reason why he'd forgo the opt-out.

[Ksyrup]

But that's what I'm saying...the Yankees are putting him in a no-win situation if he decides to opt out. If he opts out, he's saying he doesn't want to play for the Yankees, which feeds into the "ARod just says what people want to hear" thing that's been a criticism of him from the start. And if he does opt out, the Yankees have gone far enough with the "we'll negotiate now" story to also leak (I don't think this has been made official, but it's clear they've put this out there) that if he does opt out, they will not be part of the bidding.

I completely understand why ARod would want to leave. But the fact is, he keeps saying he wants to stay, and now he has to put up or shut up. I think it would be fairly easy to get a very good deal from the Yankees. Keep the next 3 years at $27M per (which is only $53M paid by the Yankees) and that gives him leverage to ask for the 5 year extension at around $32M per. That's 8 years, $241M.

I just think this is setting up as another PR hit if he doesn't attempt to negotiate with them. I think they know that and are giving themselves an easy way to keep the fans on their side if he pushes the opt out clause. Personally, I hope he leaves - I want to root for him since I don't really have anything against him, and I can't do that when he's playing for the Yankees.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

There's no way Ichiro is getting displaced from CF. Jones is playing multiple OF spots in Tacoma right now, and while he's getting positive reviews for his improvement on defense, there's no way he's a better fielder than Ichiro. The reports have him going to RF, Guillen to LF and Ibanez to DH. Given the way Safeco is configured, I think they'd actually be better off leaving Guillen in RF and installing Jones in LF, but whatever.

He won't play center now, but during the course of Ichiro's extension - and probably sooner than later - he is being groomed to take over CF. Which begs the question of whether Ichiro, as a singles hitter, is worth $20M a year to play a corner OF position and not get the most out of his defensive abilities.

In any event, one plus for you has to be that this pushes Vidro to the bench. Although you have to wonder why they would have agreed to pay him so much money and then give up on him after half a season when anyone with half a brain knew what they were getting. You guys sure could use Soriano in that bullpen now that you have meaningful games to protect, huh? It's too bad the Mariners are doing so well, in a way, because it seems to suggest Bavasi's done a good job.

[miami_fan]

So what is Rickey Henderson going to do different than what Rick Down was doing?

[Ksyrup]

Talk about himself in the third person.

[Ksyrup]

Hafner and Indians agree to $57M, four-year extension

Associated Press
Updated: July 11, 2007, 11:58 PM ET

CLEVELAND -- Travis Hafner and the Cleveland Indians agreed to a $57 million, four-year contract extension through the 2012 season on Wednesday.

Hafner, the Indians' designated hitter, is making $3.95 million this year, and Cleveland had a 2008 option for a minimum $4.95 million. Under the new deal, he will receive more money next year. The new agreement includes a team option for 2013.

Cleveland is expected to announce the agreement Thursday.

The 30-year-old Hafner is batting .262 with 14 homers and 57 RBIs this season after hitting .308 last year with 42 homers and 117 RBIs.






I really don't like this deal from the Indians' perspective. The guy is a DH-only and already 30. Just straight division, he would be making $14.25M a year, but it sounds like he is going to get more next year than his option calls for, but less than the full $14M, which means he'll really be making somewhere north of $15-17M a year by the end of the deal. I guess that's the going rate, but I'd be really nervous if I was them.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I really don't like this deal from the Indians' perspective. The guy is a DH-only and already 30. Just straight division, he would be making $14.25M a year, but it sounds like he is going to get more next year than his option calls for, but less than the full $14M, which means he'll really be making somewhere north of $15-17M a year by the end of the deal. I guess that's the going rate, but I'd be really nervous if I was them.

I'd have thought they could have gotten a better deal with how he's hitting this year

SI

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, you don't know if this is a blip, or the beginning of a decline. He could be Pat Burrell by 2010.

[MikeVic]

I might watch Mets games to get a glimpse of Rickey now!

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

But that's what I'm saying...the Yankees are putting him in a no-win situation if he decides to opt out. If he opts out, he's saying he doesn't want to play for the Yankees

No he's not. There isn't one person in the NY area who thinks ARod won't opt out. That belief was the same before the season. It's a slam dunk; he's not going to get an ounce of heat from fans for "leaving" and then coming back.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I might watch Mets games to get a glimpse of Rickey now!

Talk about something that doesn't make an ounce of sense...word out of the Mets camp for the past couple years has been how great an "instructor" Rickey is -- he helped Reyes, for example, learn how to be a great base stealer. But is Rickey really going to spend hours breaking down game tape of pitchers to pick up on tendencies? Spend hours breaking down tape of Delgado's at bats from last season to see what he's doing wrong now, and how to correct it? For some reason I have my doubts.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Logan

Talk about something that doesn't make an ounce of sense...word out of the Mets camp for the past couple years has been how great an "instructor" Rickey is -- he helped Reyes, for example, learn how to be a great base stealer. But is Rickey really going to spend hours breaking down game tape of pitchers to pick up on tendencies? Spend hours breaking down tape of Delgado's at bats from last season to see what he's doing wrong now, and how to correct it? For some reason I have my doubts.

He'll teach them to use their eyes better and draw walks.

Yeah, I don't see Rickey doing that either. But I want him to succeed!

[st.cronin]

I've long thought that Rickey would make a great coach, maybe even a great manager.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Logan

No he's not. There isn't one person in the NY area who thinks ARod won't opt out. That belief was the same before the season. It's a slam dunk; he's not going to get an ounce of heat from fans for "leaving" and then coming back.

But the Yankees have gone "public" (by way of leaks) that they are willing to negotiate now, and if he opts out, they will not take part in the bidding. Seems like if they truly believe he is going to opt out, why would they take the extra step of saying he will not be a Yankee in that case? If they're going to eventually sign him after he opts out anyway, why even make that statement? If this plays out like you say, then they will have shown major weakness in the negotiations and will have to give him a blank check once he opts out - and look ridiculous for drawing a line in the sand and then saying, "No, we really didn't mean it."

Something tells me they know he's leaning towards leaving, and this is their best opportunity to (a) keep him, or (b) save face by pre-emptively making a move to sign him, so that when he opts out and goes elsewhere, they can pin it on him.