It's here! The NHL 2003-04 playoff thread

[sachmo71]

Congrats to the Bolts. I'm very happy for them...Sydor and Lukowich, especially.
Scary thing is that Tampa is just getting started. They have the potential to be a very good team for quite a while. So many young stars...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot ...
11 straight years of the Stanley Cup in the United States ... and counting.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Congrats to the Bolts. I'm very happy for them...Sydor and Lukowich, especially.
Scary thing is that Tampa is just getting started. They have the potential to be a very good team for quite a while. So many young stars...

true. And I like their coach.
he's no Bob Hartley, of course, but he's pretty good.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

because Tampa's coach isn't a whiny bitch?

is that the right answer?

Nah...dont you remember the whole Shut your Yap fiasco? He is as whiny as they come.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Congrats to the Bolts. I'm very happy for them...Sydor and Lukowich, especially.
Scary thing is that Tampa is just getting started. They have the potential to be a very good team for quite a while. So many young stars...

[email protected]ys gotta get the shout out to the ex Stars

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Nah...dont you remember the whole Shut your Yap fiasco? He is as whiny as they come.

SHUT YOUR YAP!

[bbor]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh yeah, I almost forgot ...
11 straight years of the Stanley Cup in the United States ... and counting.

Yup....with 75 % of the winning players being Canadian

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Scary thing is that Tampa is just getting started. They have the potential to be a very good team for quite a while.

That's what worries me. Gonna make it tougher to knock 'em off the
Southern division throne.

But that's Bob Hartley's problem, one I believe he'll find a way to solve.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh yeah, I almost forgot ...
11 straight years of the Stanley Cup in the United States ... and counting.

50+ straight years the NBA trophy in the United States

When there's more US teams than Canadian teams, it's not really something to be proud of. Odds are it will be won by a US team.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Nah...dont you remember the whole Shut your Yap fiasco? He is as whiny as they come.

wasn't he doing that to put the bitchslap on Hitchcock there? I didn't see it as whiny. I'd like Hitchcock to shut his yap also.

[Simms]

Originally Posted by bbor

See 1993 L.A/Toronto game # 6 Gretzky high stick on Gilmour.......guess who the ref was?

Has Fraser read the rule book since then?

*shocked that Maple Leafs hasn't made an appearance yet*

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bbor

Yup....with 75 % of the winning players being Canadian

Actually, just 57.8% this year

[Johnny93g]

I disagree with the late calls....I thought they were awful....What a game though....I was screaming the hold 3rd period....I really enjoyed it....Kerry Fraser is a ass-hole....just more proof tonight.....Very happy for Andreychuck.....He deserves it.....Draft in 2 weeks, then UFA time, then World Cup time, then if they can fix this CBA crap, the new season is around the corner

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Simms

*shocked that Maple Leafs hasn't made an appearance yet*

Ditto.....ML usually sniffs out these threads as soon as Frasers' name is mentioned.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

I disagree with the late calls....I thought they were awful....What a game though....I was screaming the hold 3rd period....I really enjoyed it....Kerry Fraser is a ass-hole....just more proof tonight.....Very happy for Andreychuck.....He deserves it.....Draft in 2 weeks, then UFA time, then World Cup time, then if they can fix this CBA crap, the new season is around the corner

I'm glad to see another Leaf fan watch the finals....most Leaf fans thought hockey was over when the Leafs were eliminated.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by bbor

I'm glad to see another Leaf fan watch the finals....most Leaf fans thought hockey was over when the Leafs were eliminated.

Oh no....I watch the finals no matter what.....This was a great series.....I was really into it....screaming like it was a leaf game......I dont want to wait another year or 2 for the next playoffs

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Simms

*shocked that Maple Leafs hasn't made an appearance yet*

I'm here. Thanks to bbor for picking up that easy spare on my behalf.

I can't imagine what it must be like to be a Flames fan right now. I make no secret of the fact that 11 years after the Fraser non-call, I'm still not even close to being over it. And as bad as it was, it was only the semi-finals. To lose the Stanley Cup after scoring a goal that was never counted... I mean, I can't even imagine what that must be like. Poor guys.

Basic thoughts on the game: 40 minutes of typical boring NHL action, followed by 19 minutes of spectacular entertainment, followed by one minute of the Kerry Fraser show.

Both calls were awful. St. Louis put himself in a vulnerable position to make a play and got his bell rung. To let everything go all night and then call that is a joke. The cheap makeup call was guaranteed after that, and unfortunately Andreychuk has to watch the last seconds from the box. Two bad calls, although in the grand scheme who's to say if they mattered. I just know that as a fan I'm ticked that I was robbed of what could have been a fantastic final minute.

That Khabibulin save was just breath-taking. One for the ages.

Congrats to the Lightning, they deserved it. And especially to Dave Andreychuk, nobody earned it more than he did.

Let's just hope we see another Cup celebration by 2006.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I'm here. Thanks to bbor for picking up that easy spare on my behalf.

I can't imagine what it must be like to be a Flames fan right now. I make no secret of the fact that 11 years after the Fraser non-call, I'm still not even close to being over it. And as bad as it was, it was only the semi-finals. To lose the Stanley Cup after scoring a goal that was never counted... I mean, I can't even imagine what that must be like. Poor guys.

Basic thoughts on the game: 40 minutes of typical boring NHL action, followed by 19 minutes of spectacular entertainment, followed by one minute of the Kerry Fraser show.

Both calls were awful. St. Louis put himself in a vulnerable position to make a play and got his bell rung. To let everything go all night and then call that is a joke. The cheap makeup call was guaranteed after that, and unfortunately Andreychuk has to watch the last seconds from the box. Two bad calls, although in the grand scheme who's to say if they mattered. I just know that as a fan I'm ticked that I was robbed of what could have been a fantastic final minute.

That Khabibulin save was just breath-taking. One for the ages.

Congrats to the Lightning, they deserved it. And especially to Dave Andreychuk, nobody earned it more than he did.

Let's just hope we see another Cup celebration by 2006.

I will never be over the Fraser no call from game 6...Never....but he penalized Calgary for a hard hit....what a moron....it was a HARD HIT.....Your right ML....we were robbed of the last minute

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I can't imagine what it must be like to be a Flames fan right now. I make no secret of the fact that 11 years after the Fraser non-call, I'm still not even close to being over it. And as bad as it was, it was only the semi-finals. To lose the Stanley Cup after scoring a goal that was never counted... I mean, I can't even imagine what that must be like. Poor guys.

Basic thoughts on the game: 40 minutes of typical boring NHL action, followed by 19 minutes of spectacular entertainment, followed by one minute of the Kerry Fraser show.

You're still bitter after 11 years?......I havent noticed....you hide it well

The second paragraph you wrote here might have been the best summation of the NHL i have ever read.

[Joe Canadian]

I didn't think Sydor's conspiracy theory had any basis before tonight... but now I certainly believe it. I have no bones with Tampa winning... but as usual Fraiser is the "player of the game." Utter crap.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Joe Canadian

I didn't think Sydor's conspiracy theory had any basis before tonight... but now I certainly believe it. I have no bones with Tampa winning... but as usual Fraiser is the "player of the game." Utter crap.

Nah. Fraser didn't determine the game. He just made one bad call at a bad time, and followed it up with the obligatory Revlon*.

Did anyone notice that the earlier penalty on a hit from behind on St. Louis (and I love the guy, but for Christ sakes Martin, get up) wasn't called by Fraser even though he was five feet away? Once again, it was the ref 100 feet away who made the call, the second time this series that's happened to Fraser. I just think that on that last hit, he decided he wasn't going to let it happen again. I'm sure he'd like that one back.

*Makeup call

[bbor]

I heart the CBC's montages of the whole play-offs once the fianls are over.

BTW...The best moment in sports for me is after a series when 2 teams have been fighting tooth and nail that they can stand up as human beings and shake hands and offer each other congratulations.

It takes a real man to congratulate someone for beating you in for something you wanted so badly.

[Fidatelo]

Here are my thoughts on some of the subjects raised here:

- The game 6 non-goal is a non-issue. No one in the arena (players, coaches, refs, fans) thought it was a goal as it happened. It wasn't until about 2 or 3 minutes later when CBC slowed it down that it even became a question. At the time all anyone saw was a flurry of ice, the kick of a pad, and the puck re-directing to the side. If anyone had immediately questioned it then it becomes an issue, but when no-one even thinks about it until later how can the team or fans feel "robbed"?

- Calgary played like shit for 50 minutes tonight. They took stupid penalties (again) and honestly I think they could have had 3 or 4 more called against them in the first that the refs let go. Then they got a power-play off a really bad call with 10 minutes left, and get a goal to make it interesting. If I was a Tampa fan at that point I'd have been going ballistic. Then they play like they should have all game for 9 minutes, then Fraser makes another BS call. Then 40 seconds later he makes YET ANOTHER shit call. The whole game was terribly officiated, but in the end Calgary didn't deserve to win anyways. You can't play 10 minutes of a game and expect to win.

- I wish Calgary had won

[Fidatelo]

Dola,

- Dave Andreychuk is the worst "feel good old guy" winner ever. I'm sorry, but a fucking oil barrel could have scored 90% of his goals. He spent his career sitting in front of the net while guys bounced them in off his ass. When he fell on the puck late in the third right off the face-off I was just waiting for someone to spear him in the groin repeatedly, but he got let off. This guy is not even close to being Ray Bourque or any other Hall of Fame player.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Dola,

- Dave Andreychuk is the worst "feel good old guy" winner ever. I'm sorry, but a fucking oil barrel could have scored 90% of his goals. He spent his career sitting in front of the net while guys bounced them in off his ass.

Thats the dumbest thing ive ever read.....The guy has 634 career goals.....I dont care how they went in...634 goals....Theres alot of great hockey players, who are better then a "Fucking oil barrel" that will never even sniff 634 goals.....He's a hall of famer

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Fraser was right.
Iginla should have been sent off too.
The better team won.
Andreychuk ties Borque's record.
The Stanley Cup is still the single best championship moment in all of sports.

Pretty darned good for a Monday night.

Is that a JiMGA sighting in a hockey thread?

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Nah. Fraser didn't determine the game. He just made one bad call at a bad time, and followed it up with the obligatory Revlon*.

*Makeup call

Care to explain this one to us non-Leaf speakers? I'm sure there's an always colorful-ML anecdote to be had

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

It's sad this thread will be coming to an end.

Todd

So, who gets to start the "2004-200x NHL Offseason and Lockout Thread"?

SI

[Karim]

One Flames' fan perspective:

- Fraser is a non-issue for me. He didn't make the 5-on-3 call nor the 5 minute call on Nimenen. Ference was a penalty tonight.

- The more skilled team won. Tampa had 6 20+ goal scorers, most in the league. Calgary had 1.

- Calgary's hard work and physical play took its toll. They played like that all year and throughout the playoffs and simply had nothing left. Proof? In this year's playoffs, Calgary lost 145 man-games due to injury, Tampa only 17.

- Oliwa had tears and apologized to the Flames' fans. He has nothing to apologize for. As a fan, I couldn't have possibly expected more from this team. Everything after Vancouver was gravy.

- I'm sure Buffalo, Washington, Carolina and Anaheim all thought they would be there the following year also and that sentiment is no different here. The core is all young with Phaneuf and Ramholt waiting in the wings.

- I'm disappointed but expected this after losing Game 6.

Congratulations to the Tampa Bay Lightning and its fans. I really hope they appreciate what they've just won and hockey gets more respect as a result.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Karim

One Flames' fan perspective:

- Fraser is a non-issue for me. He didn't make the 5-on-3 call nor the 5 minute call on Nimenen. Ference was a penalty tonight.

- The more skilled team won. Tampa had 6 20+ goal scorers, most in the league. Calgary had 1.

- Calgary's hard work and physical play took its toll. They played like that all year and throughout the playoffs and simply had nothing left. Proof? In this year's playoffs, Calgary lost 145 man-games due to injury, Tampa only 17.

- Oliwa had tears and apologized to the Flames' fans. He has nothing to apologize for. As a fan, I couldn't have possibly expected more from this team. Everything after Vancouver was gravy.

- I'm sure Buffalo, Washington, Carolina and Anaheim all thought they would be there the following year also and that sentiment is no different here. The core is all young with Phaneuf and Ramholt waiting in the wings.

- I'm disappointed but expected this after losing Game 6.

Congratulations to the Tampa Bay Lightning and its fans. I really hope they appreciate what they've just won and hockey gets more respect as a result.

My heart goes out to you Karim and the rest of the Flames fans. It's tough to lose in the Finals and I imagine a hell of a lot tougher to lose a Game 7.

I only saw the highlights, but that Khabibuhlin save was amazing. Great stuff from a great goalie.

All in all, it was a good play-offs. Lots of great series and a decent number of them went 7 games. Too bad so many people (in the US and, well, Belgium) missed it. Their (my) loss...

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Dola,

- Dave Andreychuk is the worst "feel good old guy" winner ever. I'm sorry, but a fucking oil barrel could have scored 90% of his goals. He spent his career sitting in front of the net while guys bounced them in off his ass. When he fell on the puck late in the third right off the face-off I was just waiting for someone to spear him in the groin repeatedly, but he got let off. This guy is not even close to being Ray Bourque or any other Hall of Fame player.

He may not be flashy, but the guy is a warrior. A guy who goes to the front of the net as often as he does deserves to score all of those "garbage goals".

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by bbor

Yup....with 75 % of the winning players being Canadian

Are you finally coming around bbor?! That's been my point all along, it doesn't matter where the team is from, it's what team has the players you like the most. I'm sure your area was represented well in the finals. I know there was a former Gopher on each team this year, I was just cheering for the one that helped Minnesota win a National title.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

- The game 6 non-goal is a non-issue. No one in the arena (players, coaches, refs, fans) thought it was a goal as it happened. It wasn't until about 2 or 3 minutes later when CBC slowed it down that it even became a question. At the time all anyone saw was a flurry of ice, the kick of a pad, and the puck re-directing to the side. If anyone had immediately questioned it then it becomes an issue, but when no-one even thinks about it until later how can the team or fans feel "robbed"?

Actually, ABC showed it immediately after the play and were calling it a goal before the puck was dropped. And besides that, there are three guys in the replay booth whose job it is to catch that. Their only job.

What bugs me about the non-goal, even moreso than the NHL getting the call wrong, is their bogus explanation afterwards. I mean, let me get this straight. When I go to a regular season Sens/Predators game and a goal gets reviewed with three minutes left in a 6-1 game, it takes five minutes of replays to get the call. But when the Stanley Cup is on the line, you're telling me you did a thorough review in 15 seconds? Really? Does the NHL really think its fans are stupid?

Stuff like this reminds me of why I respect the NFL. When something crazy happens in an NFL game, you know you're going to get an explanation even if it makes the officials look bad. Remember Tagliabue sending the Browns back onto the field to finish a game that the official had called off? The NFL doesn't worry about butt-covering, and that means that when they do say they got it right you can believe them. The NHL always says they got it right, no matter what, and for that reason they have no credibility on stuff like this.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by Karim

One Flames' fan perspective:

- Fraser is a non-issue for me. He didn't make the 5-on-3 call nor the 5 minute call on Nimenen. Ference was a penalty tonight.

- The more skilled team won. Tampa had 6 20+ goal scorers, most in the league. Calgary had 1.

- Calgary's hard work and physical play took its toll. They played like that all year and throughout the playoffs and simply had nothing left. Proof? In this year's playoffs, Calgary lost 145 man-games due to injury, Tampa only 17.

- Oliwa had tears and apologized to the Flames' fans. He has nothing to apologize for. As a fan, I couldn't have possibly expected more from this team. Everything after Vancouver was gravy.

- I'm sure Buffalo, Washington, Carolina and Anaheim all thought they would be there the following year also and that sentiment is no different here. The core is all young with Phaneuf and Ramholt waiting in the wings.

- I'm disappointed but expected this after losing Game 6.

Congratulations to the Tampa Bay Lightning and its fans. I really hope they appreciate what they've just won and hockey gets more respect as a result.

Karim=Class

Congrats on the great run this year, I hope your team wins one soon, you and the rest of the Flames fans deserve one.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

He may not be flashy, but the guy is a warrior. A guy who goes to the front of the net as often as he does deserves to score all of those "garbage goals".

I guess you are right, but he has always just frustrated me. He can't skate well, he doesn't have a super good shot, he isn't that great defensively (unless he has really improved in the last couple years), he's not a big hitter or a firey player... he's just sort of there. Maybe he is like the Karl Malone of hockey or something?

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Does the NHL really think its fans are stupid?

My un-official sources say yes they do.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I guess you are right, but he has always just frustrated me. He can't skate well, he doesn't have a super good shot, he isn't that great defensively (unless he has really improved in the last couple years), he's not a big hitter or a firey player... he's just sort of there. Maybe he is like the Karl Malone of hockey or something?

Bah! I am no Andreychuk fan either. Big, dumb guy in front of the net swatting in rebounds and getting deflections. He never took the abuse smaller guys like Ciccarelli or Holmstrom take. That big body of his always seems to be floating around, just outside the serious "cross-check" zone, but just close enough to get that long stick of his on the puck. Bah!

That said, he's been able to play 22 years because of how he plays. He doesn't really take all that much punishment (despite where he gets his goals) and never deals it out. I always would like a little more from a fella his size, but he's had a solid career nonetheless. Still don't care for him all that much...

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Bah! I am no Andreychuk fan either. Big, dumb guy in front of the net swatting in rebounds and getting deflections. He never took the abuse smaller guys like Ciccarelli or Holmstrom take. That big body of his always seems to be floating around, just outside the serious "cross-check" zone, but just close enough to get that long stick of his on the puck. Bah!

Wrong. Andreychuk took just as much punishment as Ciccarelli, he just didn't flop around and "sell" it like Dino did. He went out there, took the punishment, scored the goal and went back to the bench (rather than, say, swipe at the goalie and run away).

</Wings bashing>

I also think Andreychuk deserves some serious credit for reinventing himself at the end of his career. The picture people are painting of him -- the big goofy winger who scores goals from a foot away -- was pretty accurate in his Buffalo and Toronto days, but look at him now. A faceoff expert, Selke-calibre defensive center, team leader, etc. Not to mention still being the close-range powerplay specialist. I never would have thought he was that type of player, but here we are. Good for him.

[Honolulu_Blue]

[quote=Maple Leafs]Wrong. Andreychuk took just as much punishment as Ciccarelli, he just didn't flop around and "sell" it like Dino did. He went out there, took the punishment, scored the goal and went back to the bench (rather than, say, swipe at the goalie and run away).

</Wings bashing>
QUOTE]

Mayhap you're right. I dunno. I guess my sample size of Andreychuk highlights were mainly limited to games versus the Wings. The Wings' defense at that time wasn't really capable of deliverying any sort of punishment to anyone. Until Konstantinov showed up, the Wings went through old, recycled "tough" d-men like Terry Carkner and Bob McGill at an alarming rate in attempt to get some toughness along the blue line. It was shameful.

[bbor]

Cards....I don't care where players are from....as long as we have hockey....My response was to JOn saying 11 years and running for the cup to stay in the States.

i am a hockey fan first and foremost....does'nt matter if they come from Sweden,U.S,Canada...Belarus...as long as they come and play.


ML......I think your wife had twins...she asked me to tell you...and she knows this was the only way to communicate with you

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by bbor

ML......I think your wife had twins...she asked me to tell you...and she knows this was the only way to communicate with you

They better not come out looking like you.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

They better not come out looking like you.

For their sake...or mine?

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by bbor

For their sake...or mine?

Everyone's.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Everyone's.

Yeah, that's one thing we can all get behind: bbor not reproducing

SI

[Cards4ever]

I think he is the curse that killed Calgary, they were up 3 games to 2, he sends his wife and talks about going there and what happens, Calgary loses!

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Mayhap you're right. I dunno. I guess my sample size of Andreychuk highlights were mainly limited to games versus the Wings. The Wings' defense at that time wasn't really capable of deliverying any sort of punishment to anyone. Until Konstantinov showed up, the Wings went through old, recycled "tough" d-men like Terry Carkner and Bob McGill at an alarming rate in attempt to get some toughness along the blue line. It was shameful.

One last thought on Andreychuk...

This guy had gone 22 years without a Cup. He wasn't some journeyman -- the guy is a former all-star and possible Hall of Famers. But here's what I love about him: a few years ago, when he looked like he was almost done, he signed on with TB. And since that time, do you know how he got his ring? By being a leader. By helping the young kids. By playing better than anyone could have reasonably expected him too. By adapting his game and doing whatever the coach asked. And finally, his team won and he got his ring.

What didn't he do? He didn't bitch and whine about TB not being committed to winning when they missed the playoffs. He didn't insist on a trade to Detroit or Colorado so he could "have a chance to win". He didn't pull a Malone or a Kariya or a Joseph or a Clemens.

God bless him for it. That's why when the championship finally came, he was front and center accepting the trophy. Not some passenger milling around in the background.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

One last thought on Andreychuk...

This guy had gone 22 years without a Cup. He wasn't some journeyman -- the guy is a former all-star and possible Hall of Famers. But here's what I love about him: a few years ago, when he looked like he was almost done, he signed on with TB. And since that time, do you know how he got his ring? By being a leader. By helping the young kids. By playing better than anyone could have reasonably expected him too. By adapting his game and doing whatever the coach asked. And finally, his team won and he got his ring.

What didn't he do? He didn't bitch and whine about TB not being committed to winning when they missed the playoffs. He didn't insist on a trade to Detroit or Colorado so he could "have a chance to win". He didn't pull a Malone or a Kariya or a Joseph or a Clemens.

God bless him for it. That's why when the championship finally came, he was front and center accepting the trophy. Not some passenger milling around in the background.

Yeah, so you guys quit ragging on ML's dad.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeah, that's one thing we can all get behind: bbor not reproducing

SI

Damn...no love for me in the NHL thread

ML...No comments on the coach hiring in Ottawa?

[bbor]

Originally Posted by klayman

Yeah, so you guys quit ragging on ML's dad.

Grand-dad

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by bbor

Grand-dad

Nah, ML isn't that young. He's too curmudgeonly. Like our very own Bucc but an NHL-exclusive

SI

[Cards4ever]

Looks like we will have WHA hockey in the fall.


http://www.worldhockeyassociation.ne.../top_story.htm

[Karim]

Bourque, Coffey and Murphy along with Cliff Fletcher make the Hall of Fame...
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/html/ind04prolog2003.htm

30,000+ showed up downtown at noon to honour the Flames. There were stories floating around that some of the players may not show but everyone was there...
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/artic...09_165424_6224

"Glenn Anderson, Dino Ciccarelli, Kevin Lowe, Steve Larmer, Dave Taylor, Bobby Smith, Mike Liut and Rogie Vachon were once again passed over Wednesday, as were first-year eligibles Kirk McLean, Tony Granato, Marty McSorley, Steve Smith, Ron Sutter and Esa Tikkanen."

Does anyone know how many chances a player gets before he is no longer eligible? I'd imagine Rogie has been given several looks now...