The Thread of the 2009-2010 NBA Season

[MrBug708]

Darren Collison is a terror. I dont think many Bruin fans thought he'd be performing this well in the NBA, much less as a rookie.

[Groundhog]

I watched Hornets-Spurs on the weekend and Collison looks really, really good. He's learnt an awful lot off Chris Paul, especially with keeping his dribble going. I was very impressed. 20 assists for him today (still quite a few turnovers).

Morrow is a crazy good shooter. 6-6 from deep today. And NBDL call-up Reggie Williams with 28. Sseriously, Warriors are a dream for these NBDL guys... get to play in the NBA with the same dumb run-n-gun offense teams run in the NBDL and post NBDL-esque numbers.

[whomario]

Tony Parker out for 6 weeks (or 4 or 8, depending on who´s talking) with a broken hand, ugh ...


more on the stats-conference above, rather more detailed : Key moments at MIT - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN

Hardwood Paroxysm » Sloan Sports Analytics Conference


the blocked-shots value intrigues me the most since i have long just hated it when people swat shots to the 3rd row unnescessarily and it seems somewhat trackable by sites like 82games.

What websites do you guys use for looking up stats btw ? I´m no stat nut, but sure am not satisfied with the standard stat-pages (yahoo, nba.com, espn).
If i´m taking the time looking them up i might as well look at a couple more advanced ones.

I use basically 82games, basketball-reference (the player season finder is awesome) and hoopdata.
Any good ones i´m missing ?


tonight Gallinari finally with a big game again

Golden State is just insane right now, with all those injuries the lacking defense and rebounding is even somewhat excusable. Heck, your biggest players are Magette and Tolliver (who makes David Lee look like an enforcer), unless you count Chris Hunter who really isn´t any good ... They had 23 rebounds against the Hornets, 23 !!! The Hornets had 38 assists.


But the most insane statline of the night belongs to Richard Jefferson :

29 minutes, 1-3 shooting, 1 assist. How does he touch the ball so seldom when Tony Parker is out ? What did you get him for if not stepping up in this kind of situation ?

Ginobili with a great game though, 38 points on 12-23 shooting (7-11 threes, 7-7 FTs) .

[TroyF]

82games
basketball-reference
ESPN for basic stats and game logs
hxxp://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stats/ (terrific team based stats)


Jefferson has been a massive disappointment. I agree on the blocked shot statistic, but it isn't always easy to do. It really depends on the situation. For example, the other night Birdman was running towards the baseline to block a 15 foot jumper. He hit it into the tenth row. In that case, it was the best play. He's going full speed and isn't going to be able to tip the ball back to himself. If he tips it to the shooter, he gives up a layup or a three point play. The high percentage play is to block the shot.

The other side of it is how it impacts the team as a whole. (not just for that possession, but for a 3 to 5 minute stretch after it) I know from Nuggets games the team can be walking in mud and one wallop by Bird can get them going.

All of that said, there is zero doubt from a pure statistical aspect that it's better to keep the ball in play. Not as flashy, but clearly better.

Gallanari can just flat out shot the ball. I like his game a lot.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Gallanari can just flat out shot the ball. I like his game a lot.

He´s been much better defensively as well recently, really has become better at using his length to bother shots from the perimeter, moving his feet better and anticipating.
Not an all-world defender, but much improved since the beginning of the year.

I also think another offseason will do him good in terms of doing a program for his back and regaining some more mobility.

McGrady has been hurting him on offense, that guy truly knows how to stop ball movement ... Otherwise i think he might yet have a future, has looked ok at times, still runs a pretty damn nice pick and Roll and actually looked pretty good defensively considering he´s got a way before being in game shape.
But he sure does stop movement on offense ...

yeah, obviously like with any stat you have to put it into context and allow exceptions, but in general it really is annoying. It is also sth that would help "sell" less spectacular post defenders to the semi-casual fan. The comparison between Stromile Swift and Rasho Nesterovic was nice, basically Rasho´s blocks were nearly twice as "valuable" as Swifts, not suprising really.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i liked the article from last year or whatever where it talked about the rockets evaluation of battier vs. kobe and it talked about looking at how often he forced him into shots from the part of the floor, or the type of shot that the rockets had statistically figured out was kobe's weakest.

that's the kind of advanced stats that can really tell you a lot about basketball.

I love having such a great stats guy in charge of my basketball team. This is why I badly envy the Mariners fans in baseball- they just have a guy who gets it.

SI

[TroyF]

whomario,

Remember the post above where I said Ibaka had a low defensive IQ. I put Melo at -5 for help defense in that post.

Swift's defensive IQ is somewhere between a paper clip and a raw vegetable. He's one of the single dumbest players I've ever watched play the sport. If you desperately need a basket, he'll shoot a 20 footer. If you desperately need a defensive stop, he'll give up a three point play. If you are down by 24 with five minutes left, he'll look like Karl Malone for 5 minutes, score 12 points, block 5 shots (most of which will go into the 10th row) and throw down an incredible dunk or two.

Some Nuggets fans wanted the Nuggets to go after him two offseasons ago. I think if you'd had him, Allen Iverson, and JR Smith on the floor at the same time, you would lose IQ points just watching them play.

[Chief Rum]

Apparently, the Clippers have fired Dunleavy from his GM job now, too.

Meanwhile, the Clips are getting massacred by the Magic. Not that that's a shock.

[MrBug708]

They should just ask Lebron who he wants for both spots?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

They should just ask Lebron who he wants for both spots?

Why the heck not? Worth a shot anyway.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Apparently, the Clippers have fired Dunleavy from his GM job now, too.

Meanwhile, the Clips are getting massacred by the Magic. Not that that's a shock.

67 points in the first half, nice. Orlando is playing well after stumbling a bit in the second quarter of the season.

Howard dribbling the ball 80 feet down the court before setting up Bass for a dunk with a nice pass

Random question: what is the method for determining who gets credited with a rebound? Say a shot is missed and a guy on the other team tips it to one of his teammates, is it a set rule that the guy who tips it gets credit or is it a judgment call by the official scorer?

[Chief Rum]

It's amazing to me that there is anywhere less than five players on Kobe at the end of close games. At some point, you gotta say "anyone but him" as an opposing coach.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey32

Clippers should try to lure Jerry West. Its worth a shot and then he can try to lure the big free agents to come.

This was actually a subject of some discussion on the postgame Clipper talk on the radio.

I don't consider it very likely, but it's nice to dream. There's at least some things going for it--West has been out of basketball long enough to "miss" it, I would guess; the job's in LA; the Clippers already have good young talent in place; they have a ton of cap space; the owner is finally giving public indications he wants to win, not just make money; and there is an open coaching spot to fill.

All that said, West is 72. He doesn't have anything to prove, and has earned a healthy, unstressed retirement. It would take a lot of money AND West would have to be amenable to working again, and who knows if he is. And it's the Clippers.

I would put the odds at somewhere between the Lions winning the next three Super Bowls and Ben Roethlisberger being canonized by the end of the year.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

67 points in the first half, nice. Orlando is playing well after stumbling a bit in the second quarter of the season.

Howard dribbling the ball 80 feet down the court before setting up Bass for a dunk with a nice pass

Random question: what is the method for determining who gets credited with a rebound? Say a shot is missed and a guy on the other team tips it to one of his teammates, is it a set rule that the guy who tips it gets credit or is it a judgment call by the official scorer?

I believe possession is what matters, so the rebound would go to the guy who ends up with the ball. Pretty sure that's whole steals work, too. You can tip the ball in a passing lane, but it's the guy who picks up the loose ball who gets credit for the steal.

BTW, I have said it before, and I don't want to take anything away from Orlando, as they are a terrific team--but there is absolutely no perspective to be gained from this game for the Magic. This is like a high D-1 football team smoking a DII also ran at home; there are absolutely no conclusions which can be made from such a game.

[Chief Rum]

Something I noticed today looking at action shots of Darren Collison (and, yes, I realize these shots are usually taken only when he's doing something good; still...)

1. Collison is always shorter than whoever's guarding him.
2. Collison is always in front of whoever's guarding him, and Collison has the ball.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Something I noticed today looking at action shots of Darren Collison (and, yes, I realize these shots are usually taken only when he's doing something good; still...)

1. Collison is always shorter than whoever's guarding him.
2. Collison is always in front of whoever's guarding him, and Collison has the ball.

well, the other 1/3 of the shots taken show him well ahead of everyone with the ball in the forground being held by an opponent who just stole the pass

Utah dismantled the Bulls. They sure have had some ridiculously efficient offensive games the last couple months. After starting the year 19-17 the Jazz have gone 23-4 since btw.
Their trade sending Brewer away for nothing doesn´t look too terrible as well, others stepped up.
If we ever get the "hockey assist" in basketball, Kirilenko would be top5 in that category.

Bogut with 25/17 with 4 blocks And again : Amazing defender. Stats wise : There can´t be too many people that were in the Top 10 in blocks and charges in any given season, he´s 2nd in BPG and 3rd in charges taken per game.
Talk about flopping all you want, but it tells a bit about the players smarts as well, especially when he´s also a very good shotblocker and has those 2 options at hand.
Among the Top 15 shotblockers none takes more than 0.35 charges a game (josh smith), he takes 0.8 a game.

Carlos Delfino had quite a few very nice games this year as well, good utility/2-way player, more than that when his shot is falling or when he has room to drive to the basket.
Ilyasove also a good comeback season, Ridnour has been a great backup (10+ points, 4 assists and a career high 48% shooting in 20 minutes)

Bucks overall a pretty good defensive team, very "likeable" in a way.

Celtics signed Finley earlier and he made his debut. Another experienced veteran that can´t guard anyone quick anymore, just what they needed ...

Casspi looks to be out of the rotation for now due to fatigue, has hit that infamous "rookie wall". Sat out last game for that reason, played just 4 minutes this time. Will be much better next year
The internet monster ate my post about him and the other rookies last night, aaaargh ...
In short : His game is tailor made for the NBA imo (and it showed). Great finisher, runs the floor extremely well (not just fast but knows where to go) and also is a good defender due to his great combination of athleticicms and length paired with solid defensive instincts. His jump shot actually is a new thing, just 2 years ago he couldn´t hit the euro-3 now he´s shot 38% on ample attempts in the NBA.
So i definitely see him as a solid NBA starter at least.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It's amazing to me that there is anywhere less than five players on Kobe at the end of close games. At some point, you gotta say "anyone but him" as an opposing coach.

Seriously

[Warhammer]

I would just like to confirm that if you put Stromile Swift and a brick out on the basketball court, the brick would have the higher basketball IQ.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

This was actually a subject of some discussion on the postgame Clipper talk on the radio.

I don't consider it very likely, but it's nice to dream. There's at least some things going for it--West has been out of basketball long enough to "miss" it, I would guess; the job's in LA; the Clippers already have good young talent in place; they have a ton of cap space; the owner is finally giving public indications he wants to win, not just make money; and there is an open coaching spot to fill.

All that said, West is 72. He doesn't have anything to prove, and has earned a healthy, unstressed retirement. It would take a lot of money AND West would have to be amenable to working again, and who knows if he is. And it's the Clippers.

I would put the odds at somewhere between the Lions winning the next three Super Bowls and Ben Roethlisberger being canonized by the end of the year.

Serious question here and I'm not trying to start a flame war or get in a fight with Clippers fans: I've always thought of West as a pretty good guy. Would he even consider working for Sterling,a guy who has been convicted of doing some not very nice things?

I know in the NFL players threw a fit and said they'd never sign for a Rush Limbaugh owned team. I'm amazed this hasn't transferred to Sterling and what he's done.

[MikeVic]

What did Sterling do?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I believe possession is what matters, so the rebound would go to the guy who ends up with the ball. Pretty sure that's whole steals work, too. You can tip the ball in a passing lane, but it's the guy who picks up the loose ball who gets credit for the steal.

BTW, I have said it before, and I don't want to take anything away from Orlando, as they are a terrific team--but there is absolutely no perspective to be gained from this game for the Magic. This is like a high D-1 football team smoking a DII also ran at home; there are absolutely no conclusions which can be made from such a game.

Well, no question on that. The Magic are playing some terrific ball right now though. 19-4 in their last 23, 13 of the wins being by 10 or more points.

There were two results that surprised me last night:

Jazz/Bulls. Jazz have been playing some terrific ball, but they were only 4-3 in their last 7 heading into this game, they've struggled on the road. (one of those wins came strictly because the Suns ran out of gas on a 4 in 5 night stretch, they lost to the Kings and Clippers on the road recently) I was stunned to see them lay down the gauntlet like that in a road game against any team. Without Kenyon, it's now very conceivable the Nuggets could drop to the number 4 seed. Ouch.

Raptors/Lakers - I'm not going to make too much of a win against a pretty good Toronto team, but had I bet money on this, I would have expected the Lakers to come out fuming and lay a beat down. Three straight losses, Kobe and Pau complaining about things, 8 of their next 10 on the road after the Raptors. . . and yet they had to come back for a two point win? I already told you I'd have put money on a Laker blowout, if you had added that Turk, Bosh and Calderon would shoot 12-36, the Lakers would take 14 more FT than the Raptors and that LA would turn the ball over only 9 times? I probably would have lost my condo. I'm very interested to see how the Lakers do over these next ten.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

What did Sterling do?

hxxp://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/11/25/the-donald-sterling-rule-all-bad-deeds-go-unpunished/

Quote from the article:

LA Clippers owner Donald Sterling lives by his own rules. And the only one that matters, apparently, is this: all bad deeds go unpunished.

Over the last six years, nearly two dozen L.A. residents have sued Sterling for engaging in racist housing practices and Jim Crow-style bigotry. In a 2003 deposition, the 76-year-old real estate mogul admitted to paying a former employee to have sex with him in an elevator. Three years ago, the U.S. government charged him with "willful" mistreatment of African-American and Latino tenants, and earlier this month, he agreed to pay the Dept. of Justice nearly $3 million to settle a federal racial-discrimination housing lawsuit, the largest award ever for a case of its kind.


Since 2003, he has committed to give more than $8 million to plaintiffs to end housing-discrimination cases before they went to trial. To top it off, Sterling is currently being sued by Elgin Baylor, the Clippers long-time general manager and an NBA Hall of Famer, for age and race discrimination.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Serious question here and I'm not trying to start a flame war or get in a fight with Clippers fans: I've always thought of West as a pretty good guy. Would he even consider working for Sterling,a guy who has been convicted of doing some not very nice things?

I know in the NFL players threw a fit and said they'd never sign for a Rush Limbaugh owned team. I'm amazed this hasn't transferred to Sterling and what he's done.

Good point, Troy, and I don't know. I could definitely see West saying "I won't work for that man."

But then, I would think players would have an issue, too, and the Clippers do still get their share of free agents. So maybe the sentiment inside NBA circles isn't as strong as it is in the court of public opinion.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

hxxp://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/11/25/the-donald-sterling-rule-all-bad-deeds-go-unpunished/

Quote from the article:

LA Clippers owner Donald Sterling lives by his own rules. And the only one that matters, apparently, is this: all bad deeds go unpunished.

Over the last six years, nearly two dozen L.A. residents have sued Sterling for engaging in racist housing practices and Jim Crow-style bigotry. In a 2003 deposition, the 76-year-old real estate mogul admitted to paying a former employee to have sex with him in an elevator. Three years ago, the U.S. government charged him with "willful" mistreatment of African-American and Latino tenants, and earlier this month, he agreed to pay the Dept. of Justice nearly $3 million to settle a federal racial-discrimination housing lawsuit, the largest award ever for a case of its kind.


Since 2003, he has committed to give more than $8 million to plaintiffs to end housing-discrimination cases before they went to trial. To top it off, Sterling is currently being sued by Elgin Baylor, the Clippers long-time general manager and an NBA Hall of Famer, for age and race discrimination.

Yup, what he said. Although I'll add a slight adjustment and note that I believe Elgin's suit is more about a bad breakup or in-office politicking. Frankly, Baylor was a very poor GM and should have been fired over a decade before he was. He should be kissing Sterling's feet for allowing him to be "gainfully" employed for so long.

All of the rest, though, nail on the head. Sterling's largely a piece of shit. Unstated up there is that he is also a miserly scrooge that has kept a tight lid on the payroll for most of his ownership of the Clips, so that he can increase profits and franchise value (and of course, this consequently hurt the team performance, as high drafted "star" after star left the team for more money elsewhere, and big money free agents couldn't get big money out fo the Clips, and so stayed elsewhere).

[TroyF]

I agree on Baylor chief. Thing is, Sterling can't even fire people the right way. According to Dunleavey he heard about it from the television, called up Sterling to thank him for the chance and still hasn't had a return call from him.

He's an amazingly bad person and while I can see a lot of guys taking the money, something tells me West would tell him to go pound sand. You are right about the culture though. It will be interesting to see what they do. FWIW, if they really want Lebron, their best shot might be to simply hold off and tell him he can pick whoever he wants to do it all.

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

What did Sterling do?

hxxp://deadspin.com/5398936/donald-sterling-continues-to-get-away-with-being-the-most-evil-man-in-sports

hxxp://deadspin.com/5263277/the-sordid-life-of-clippers-owner-donald-sterling

[whomario]

So, that´s how you use the d-league. Thabeet went down there, gets some reps and posts good numbers while helping that team to a 5-1 record, comes back and plays a season high 25 minutes with 7/6 and a block and a +25 in +- against the Celtics.
Glad for him.

Denver with a comeback win against the Wolves, that run was pretty impressive, nice creative lineup. @ TroF : How´d you like Darko ? I thought it was an ok game. Nothing spectacular, but definitely looked pretty usefull and really could be a great complementary player next to both Love and Jefferson.

Dallas wins their 13th game in a row, only against the Nets but despite Nowitzki having a terrible night (3-16 shooting, 5 TOs)
Dampier came back only playing 5 minutes but it´s a start. Beaubois with 16 points.

Richard Jefferson goes 0-2 in 18 minutes ... Only worth half when he´s not having the green light and/or having a PG setting him up.
Manu with 28/6/5

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by whomario

So, that´s how you use the d-league. Thabeet went down there, gets some reps and posts good numbers while helping that team to a 5-1 record, comes back and plays a season high 25 minutes with 7/6 and a block and a +25 in +- against the Celtics.
Glad for him.

Denver with a comeback win against the Wolves, that run was pretty impressive, nice creative lineup. @ TroF : How´d you like Darko ? I thought it was an ok game. Nothing spectacular, but definitely looked pretty usefull and really could be a great complementary player next to both Love and Jefferson.

Dallas wins their 13th game in a row, only against the Nets but despite Nowitzki having a terrible night (3-16 shooting, 5 TOs)
Dampier came back only playing 5 minutes but it´s a start. Beaubois with 16 points.

Richard Jefferson goes 0-2 in 18 minutes ... Only worth half when he´s not having the green light and/or having a PG setting him up.
Manu with 28/6/5

Thoughts on the Nuggets/TWolves game:

I was watching it with a friend and I told him in the middle of the third quarter that if we didn't get the good
JR Smith, we were dead. JR comes into the game with 6:13 left in the third quarter and the TWolves up 6.

Defensive stop, JR 3 pointer, Wolves score a 2, JR hits a 3, Wolves score a 2, JR hits a 3. JR goes on a 9-4 run by himself even with Denver not stopping the Wolves. Denver ran it up from there.

Carmelo Anthony's line does not give him any justice for his performance. I'm not exaggerating here, in the first quarter Carmelo lost 7 assists because teammates didn't hit wide open jumpers. His final line shows 19 points, 6 boards, 5 assists, 5 steals and 1 block (2 turnovers) He should have had 12 assists minimum if the people he passed the ball to would have done anything.

JR with a jaw dropping oop that if you haven't seen, you really, really should.

Darko? He played ok. His rebounding was solid. His offense doesn't look good to me. I know it was one game, but he missed some ridiculously easy shots. I liked him on defense a lot more. He's an incredibly smart defender who changes shots more than you think at first glance. If he had that 20 foot range they said he had when he came into the league, I'd probably start sliding your way.

Other games last night:

The Jazz had 35 assists in an NBA road game. I don't care who you are playing, that' simply amazing.

Boston - you let the Grizz shoot 55% in Boston? Really? 48-29 on the boards? Seriously? I thought a month ago the Eastern conference first round would be boring as hell. Now I'm thinking the Boston vs. Anyone series should be pretty good and that Cleveland is going to wax the floor with whoever wins that series.

Gerald Wallace - 28 points on 10 shots. Wow.

[DaddyTorgo]

Boston's going nowhere in the playoffs. 1-and-done.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Darko? He played ok. His rebounding was solid. His offense doesn't look good to me. I know it was one game, but he missed some ridiculously easy shots. I liked him on defense a lot more. He's an incredibly smart defender who changes shots more than you think at first glance. If he had that 20 foot range they said he had when he came into the league, I'd probably start sliding your way.

His offense is terrible right now, passing excluded (had an amazing touch pass against Houston : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtxhRNwDfuw had a couple more that were amazing for a big guy)
Offense is about rythm, repetition (especially for post moves) and most of all confidence, he hasn´t any of the 3 right now.
That 20 foot jump shot is long gone, showed glimpses of that his first half season with the Magic, after that constantly below 30% on his few attempts. You also have to remember that he bulked up considerably, came in as a rather thin PF and now is propably one of the stronger built Cs in the league.
But when he´s in shape and has some confidence he is a solid post scorer. That hook shot he´s trying right now is his bail-out move when he can´t get his moves together, right now he can´t do that at all unfortunately.


The Jazz had a ton of assists in quite a few games recently, they are really working great together on offense.

[TroyF]

Not much to talk about last night. The TNT lineup was terrible. Roy went nuts and the Warriors lost another game. The Magic beat up the injury plagued Bulls for yet another blowout. The Hawks squeaked by the Wizards despite their front line getting abused. Blatche and McGee went 12-32 from the floor for 50 points and 19 rebounds. (Blatche did turn the ball over 7 times)

Two very interesting games tonight for my money (outside of MY Nuggets playing in NO)

1) Jazz @ Bucks - Two of the hottest teams in the game. The Bucks have won 11 of their last 12. The Jazz are on a 23-5 run. Should be a great basketball game.

2) Lakers @ Suns - The Lakers are currently up 2.5 games on the Mavericks (3 in the loss column) The Mavericks play the Knicks on Saturday night. The Lakers lose this game and their #1 seed could be down to 1.5 games by the time they wake up Sunday morning. I don't think the Nuggets will win both @NO and @Memphis, but they could get within 2 games. (and they have a shot at getting the tiebreaker) The Jazz could get within 3 with two wins this weekend. After this game, the Lakers have 4 gimmee type wins before they have their brutal 8 game stretch.

The Lakers need to have a good performance tonight.

------------------------

The pass Darko made above was hella impressive whomario. He didn't do anything that creative on the offensive end in the Nuggets game.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Blatche and McGee went 12-32 from the floor for 50 points and 19 rebounds. (Blatche did turn the ball over 7 times)

Two very interesting games tonight for my money (outside of MY Nuggets playing in NO)

1) Jazz @ Bucks - Two of the hottest teams in the game. The Bucks have won 11 of their last 12. The Jazz are on a 23-5 run. Should be a great basketball game.

The pass Darko made above was hella impressive whomario. He didn't do anything that creative on the offensive end in the Nuggets game.

And the Wizards are competitive as well, so it´s not like they are posting empty stats.

2nd the Jazz-Bucks, which is also a clash of the systems really. Will be interesting to see how the Bucks defense reacts to Utah´s offensive schemes and vice-versa.

He had quite a few of those playing in Orlando with Howard as well, that high-low with Howard looked very promising. Can´t even describe how frustrated i was when Smith started screwing around to throw this insane amount of money at Lewis and Darko wouldn´t wait it out and went for the supposed starting Job in Memphis.
That would have made his career a lot different playing as a 20-25 MPG guy on a championship calibre team instead of a 25 MPG player on a tanking team that changed coaches and philosophy after half a season ...


Chicago @ miami is a huge game for both teams, if miami wins they are 2.5 games ahead of chicago for the 8th spot.

[Coffee Warlord]

Chicago's screwed right now. Rose went out last night with a wrist injury (though non-shooting hand). Deng & Taj Gibson are still gimpy, and Noah is gonna be out for a few more weeks at least.

[whomario]

yeah, they might be sliding real fast, just not many games left. Even if they come back they need to get a rythm again and if you are down 2,3 or 4 games by then it will not work out anymore.

@ TroyF : A video of Milicic against Argentina at the World Cup ´06, maybe interests you as well : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FygLQssE5DE
He was 21 years old then, if he enters the draft the year later, based on his performance in that World Cup, he still gets drafted in the Top 5, guaranteed. Argentina´s big men rotation : Scola, Oberto, Nocioni, Hermann. Not exactly walkover material.
Followed it by going toe-to-toe with the Gasols in a game where his touch just wasn´t there and he still impressed on both ends (couldn´t buy a call either).

After that tournament everybody that watched it thought that this would end really well yet with him.

I know it sounds like excuses, but seeing that highlights again (haven´t seen anything from that WC since then) still makes me question a lot of things within the NBA and it´s way to supress talent and try to squeeze squares into round holes. That´s why i love it how european basketball developed and hope it does further.
Because just like Premier League soccer isn´t for everybody who then can end up being a superstar in another big league like in Spain or Italy (or vice versa), neither is the NBA. Or Europe for that matter (quite few good players that had roles in the NBA tanked in Europe, Pargo last year f.e. was a non-factor and even collected DNP CDs).

Truehoop´s Henry Abbott :

And Darko Milicic -- he's way more talented than anyone ever gave him credit for. He has been beat up in his first six years in the NBA. I wish I could sneak you into the gym so you could see what he can do. He really is seven-feet-plus. He's really bouncy. He's really running. You can see why it was a debate who should be first, second or third in that draft.

And you're a Carmelo guy!

Carmelo's my guy. But Darko's ta-len-ted. They're doing something smart here by welcoming him openly, and making him feel a part of what's happening. He's a good kid. There's nothing bad about him. What's the point of all the yelling and screaming and cursing and insulting that he has endured? Once you have lost your dignity and self respect, it's hard to be professional. Now he's somewhere where they are acting like they're happy to see him, and it's awesome.

If he ends up going to Europe after this season (which i think he will, those games now are just further proof that it´s just a big drag playing for nothing with teammates that don´t give consistent effort because there really is nothing to be gained other than good personal stats), i´m pretty sure he´ll be an absolute force and routinely heading "top free agents in europe" lists. At this point i just want to see him get involved and play to his strengths, not nescesserily in the NBA anymore.

[whomario]

Sorry for the homer-post, promise to be done for the next week or at least to whenever he has a great game

Tonight Love is out (and Hollins still out) which might mean 35 minutes if he doesn´t drop over dead from exhaustion before that

[TroyF]

coffee,

At this point I don't even count Chicago. It's not their fault they are banged up, but it is what it is. they haven't been competitive for the last six games (don't let the Mavs score fool anyone, they were not in that game) I don't see that changing anytime soon, especially not in a B2B banged up even more.

They need to fire Del Negro and hope they strike it rich in this round of FA.

whomario,

I know they guy has talent and I know the NBA can be screwy in reading talent sometimes. . . but Darko has to take some of this blame too. I hope he finishes the season out strong.

------------------------------

I was thinking about this the other day and I sure am glad I don't cheer for one of the teams who sold their souls for Bron, Wade or Bosh. There are going to be a lot of disappointed people this summer.

[Big Fo]

Who needs Darko when you've got the Polish Hammer

He did have his moments in Orlando though. I still don't know who Smith thought he was bidding against when he gave Lewis that crazy contract, he's a good player and fits into what the Magic like to do but damn. I wonder if Lewis had been signed for more reasonable money whether they might have tried harder to keep Milicic.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by TroyF

coffee,

At this point I don't even count Chicago. It's not their fault they are banged up, but it is what it is. they haven't been competitive for the last six games (don't let the Mavs score fool anyone, they were not in that game) I don't see that changing anytime soon, especially not in a B2B banged up even more.

They need to fire Del Negro and hope they strike it rich in this round of FA.

whomario,

I know they guy has talent and I know the NBA can be screwy in reading talent sometimes. . . but Darko has to take some of this blame too. I hope he finishes the season out strong.

------------------------------

I was thinking about this the other day and I sure am glad I don't cheer for one of the teams who sold their souls for Bron, Wade or Bosh. There are going to be a lot of disappointed people this summer.

Don't forget the Raps are playing like crap again since the return of Bosh. Maybe they'll fall out and Chicago will make it.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by TroyF

------------------------------

I was thinking about this the other day and I sure am glad I don't cheer for one of the teams who sold their souls for Bron, Wade or Bosh. There are going to be a lot of disappointed people this summer.

Totally agree. It has happened before as well ... But honestly, most of those teams really weren´t going anywhere anyway and can put themselves in a much better position than 2 years ago even when missing out on those 3.

The Thunder will have just 40 mio on their payroll btw with no one they´d need to resign (Etan Thomas, earl watson and Harprings contract come off the books). I´m curious if they´ll try to add a really good player or go for a solid player or 2 and keep some spending money for when Durant and Westbrook get their extensions ?
In theory, next year might be a perfect opportunity to bring in a star into a well working team. Maybe Joe Johnson ? Although he´d need the ball a bit too much to work with Westbrook, but if he buys into being an 16-18 PPG with less touches he´d be a damn nice fit.

Then again, other than Green (and Krstic going from starter to backup with a solid starter coming in) i wouldn´t want to replace anybody right now and the market for big guys isn´t that convincing and i think Green is really integral to their tight-knit chemistry.

So realistically a shooter that can play backup minutes at the 3 and 2 or 4, a solid center.

Maybe a guy like Mike Miller ? IMO he´d be a great fit other than that it would cut into Harden´s and Sefolosha´s PT who really complement each other well (Miller doesn´t make sense if he´s not playing 15-20 minutes next to Durant with his shooting ability). If Durant could play some minutes at the 4 or was a great passer (then enabling them to play a non-PG in the backup PG minutes) the planning would be much easier.

I´d love to see Milicic on the Thunder, only half kidding

Maybe them doing a trade using their 2 first round picks would be wiser, at least to move up in the draft, no way do they have room for 2 more rookies.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by whomario

Chicago @ miami is a huge game for both teams, if miami wins they are 2.5 games ahead of chicago for the 8th spot.

I think the Bulls are done. Rose isn't playing tonight. They know that even if they make the playoffs, it's probably a short series. They might be better off letting Deng, Gibson, and Noah heal the rest of the season and be real cautious with Rose.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by whomario

Totally agree. It has happened before as well ... But honestly, most of those teams really weren´t going anywhere anyway and can put themselves in a much better position than 2 years ago even when missing out on those 3.

The Thunder will have just 40 mio on their payroll btw with no one they´d need to resign (Etan Thomas, earl watson and Harprings contract come off the books). I´m curious if they´ll try to add a really good player or go for a solid player or 2 and keep some spending money for when Durant and Westbrook get their extensions ?
In theory, next year might be a perfect opportunity to bring in a star into a well working team. Maybe Joe Johnson ? Although he´d need the ball a bit too much to work with Westbrook, but if he buys into being an 16-18 PPG with less touches he´d be a damn nice fit.

Then again, other than Green (and Krstic going from starter to backup with a solid starter coming in) i wouldn´t want to replace anybody right now and the market for big guys isn´t that convincing and i think Green is really integral to their tight-knit chemistry.

So realistically a shooter that can play backup minutes at the 3 and 2 or 4, a solid center.

Maybe a guy like Mike Miller ? IMO he´d be a great fit other than that it would cut into Harden´s and Sefolosha´s PT who really complement each other well (Miller doesn´t make sense if he´s not playing 15-20 minutes next to Durant with his shooting ability). If Durant could play some minutes at the 4 or was a great passer (then enabling them to play a non-PG in the backup PG minutes) the planning would be much easier.

I´d love to see Milicic on the Thunder, only half kidding

Maybe them doing a trade using their 2 first round picks would be wiser, at least to move up in the draft, no way do they have room for 2 more rookies.

I don't think that team can win with Jeff Green on the roster. Say what you want about chemistry, the guy is not what he thinks he is and certainly not what they think he is. How can you be 10 points worse on defense per 100 possessions with your supposed defensive stopper ON THE COURT? (sorry for the caps, it just amazes me)

Their real defensive stopper is Sefolosha. When you have your starting lineup out, it's Westbrook, Sefolosha, Durant, Green, Krstic.

How many guys can create for others? That'd be one. How many guys are below average or worse at passing the ball for their position? That'd be 4. Green, Sefolosha, Durant and Krstic average under 10 assists per game combined.

So what are your choices? You aren't getting rid of Durant, so scratch that. Sefolosha's replacement is in place in Harden. Harden is also not a great passer. (you upgrade about 1 assist per 48 from Sefolosha to Harden)

Krstic? OK, but let's be real here. How many centers score, rebound, pass the ball, and defend well? You have a choice to make here and your choice had better be rebounding and defense here. (You do not want to force Durant to become your main rebounder, it's just not smart) Really, good luck finding a center who does two of those things well. Solid big men are not an easy asset to acquire.

That leaves Green. He's playing out of position, can't pass, can't stretch the defense, is an overrated defender (especially on 4's) and has trade value.

FWIW, I don't hate Jeff Green. Put in his natural position of SF on a team with good ball movement already, he'd be an ok player. (not a great player, but ok) He's just not a good puzzle piece in OKC.

[DeToxRox]

Will Bynum had 20 assists for the Pistons tonight. One of the few things to be happy about so far, outside of the play of Jerebko (18 and 8 tonight also).

[TroyF]

Huge, huge win last night for the Lakers. They showed their quality and should now win their 4 gimmees and take a 3+ game lead into their 8 game stretch. (Gentry was right by the way, that was clearly a flagrant one on Gasol. The NBA needs to tighten up the rules and make for clarity on this. You are in control of your arms. I don't care if you go for the ball or not, you club a guy in the head, it's a flagrant. It doesn't mean it's a dirty play, it doesn't mean you should be kicked out of the game, it doesn't mean you deserve a suspension. . . but when your arm comes down on someone's head with the force Gasol's came down, that's a flagrant 1. It's a no brainer)

Jazz fought tough against the Bucks, but the Bucks held on. The Jazz are far bigger of a threat than I thought they would be.

The importance of the Nuggets win cannot be overstated. They play the Grizz in a tough back to back. They are still without Ty Lawson and the injured Kenyon Martin. They went 3-22 from three point land. They turned the ball over 19 times. Yet they found a way to pull out the win. Mostly thanks to Carmelo Anthony in the fourth quarter. It was an ugly win, but when 25% of your rotation is down, you are on the road and you shoot like crap from long range. . . you take what you can get.

Nuggets/Grizz is the game of the night. It's the only game involving two current playoff teams. Mavs should beat up on the Knicks. . . other than those two games, no other game will even have much to do with seeding.

[whomario]

First off : Luis Scola dropped 44 points (and 12 boards) on 20-25 shooting. If you have the chance, watch this game. If Scola had better physichal attributes he´d be unbelievable, his Post moves and footwork are 2nd to none in the NBA as his ability to get open in the lane.
Having a left hand would help as well

Stephen Curry 35 and 10 assists, 13-21 shooting.

Dallas sucked donkey ass ...

Blatche another big game with 32 points, 25/10 since the all star break.

Caught Denver´s 4th quarter in replay just now, impressive stuff.

San Antonio with their annual great play in March. Now if Parker can come back in time for the POs ...

[TroyF]

Dallas was just stunning. The Knicks just slapped them around on the second night of a B2B. I'm still amazed at that one.

The Denver win surprised me as well. I figured on teh second night of the B2B, Denver would be in some trouble. Even posted here that I didn't think they'd win both games and that's why the NO game was so important to get. Simply put, when JR Smith gets that hot, you aren't beating Denver. Best fourth quarter they have had this year.

Denver overtakes Dallas for the 2 seed. They also go up 3 games in the win column on Utah. (Utah with another tough one tonight in OKC) Why is that important? Denver owns the tiebreaker and doesn't face Utah again this year. If Utah were to lose tonight, Denver would essentially own a 4 game lead in the division with 16 to play. The Nuggets now play @Houston and then home against the Wizards. (if you want to see ugly basketball, watch that one on Tuesday night. . . both teams will be playing their 4th in 5 nights. It's going to be brutal to watch)

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by whomario

First off : Luis Scola dropped 44 points (and 12 boards) on 20-25 shooting. If you have the chance, watch this game. If Scola had better physichal attributes he´d be unbelievable, his Post moves and footwork are 2nd to none in the NBA as his ability to get open in the lane.
Having a left hand would help as well

Stephen Curry 35 and 10 assists, 13-21 shooting.

Dallas sucked donkey ass ...

Blatche another big game with 32 points, 25/10 since the all star break.

Caught Denver´s 4th quarter in replay just now, impressive stuff.

San Antonio with their annual great play in March. Now if Parker can come back in time for the POs ...

Second to none?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Second to none?

I´m not saying he´s the best post scorer in the league, which he isn´t due to his shortcomings, but his footwork and Post moves itself are right up there.
Heck, he´s had a few moves used regularly this year (as he´s getting more touches without Yao) where the refs needed a couple weeks to figure out that they are actually legal/possible before they stopped whistling him for travelling violations on them.

The guy has decent size at best, can´t jump at all (he has 1 dunk all season), isn´t really quick, doesn´t have anyone setting him up and he can´t finish with the left hand. Every player knows he´s going to his right hand 85% of the time, yet he still fakes them into thinking he won´t.

In short : Can´t power through people, can´t shoot over people, can´t run around people.

Does mean he´s a reliable No1 option, but doesn´t change a thing about the 3 qualities i mentioned

And like with passing, numbers don´t tell everything here (and those aren´t shabby either at 15.5 PPG by now).

[TroyF]

For pure post moves? I'd rate Scola in the top 5 of the NBA. You have to understand that Scola isn't big enough just to shoot it over people. He's a true 6'9" guy who has a fairly small wingspan. He's not fast and doesn't have a strong first step either. That means a vast majority of what he gets are the result of guile and footwork. It would be scary to think of how good this guy could be if he were simply born 3 or 4 inches taller with a longer reach.

That doesn't mean I think he's the best inside player in the game (not speaking for whomario here, I'm sure he doesn't think that either) But when it comes to creating a good chance for yourself with your back to the basket? Easily top 5 in the league. And you could make a very good case that he has the best low post moves in the league.

[TroyF]

The Jazz did lose to the Thunder. (they played without AK or Okur)

Amare scores 36 points on 17 shots as the Suns roll.

Cavs down the Celtics. The Celtics bench was putrid. Daniels, Wallace, Robinson and Finley combined to go 3-21 from the floor. Combine that with Cleveland going to the line 48 times and you have a recipe for disaster.

Standings:

Lakers up 3 on the Nuggets, 3.5 on the Mavs. Five games seperate the 4 and 8 seeds in the West. (and OKC/Utah still have an outside shot to catch Denver)

1-4 in the East is pretty much set. (Boston could catch Atlanta for the 3 seed but that's it) The other four teams battling for who gets to play Boston. (though I wouldn't call what Toronto and Chicago are doing right now battling)

Three interesting games on the docket for tomorrow night:

1) Nuggets @ Rockets - Nuggets try to continue their run. Rockets battling to stay in the playoff hunt.

2) Wizards @ Jazz - Jazz off of a B2B, banged up and on a two game losing streak. Blatche is playing out of his mind.

3) Lakers @ Warriors - Should be an easy game for LA, but GS can always get hot from three. These next four are important for the Lakers to build up a cushion so they can get some rest for the post season run.

[whomario]

the way they are playing, Milwaukee might just catch Boston and get homecourt Stackhouse and Salmons added some needed scoring, those moves seem to pan out afterall...

Amare has been pretty beastly i have to admit, 27/10 since the all star game.
Will be highly interesting to see if and how they can work Barbosa back into the lineup with Dragic and Dudley playing some really good ball this season on both ends.

Oklahoma had a nice little shootarround against the Jazz, definitely missed Okur (whose a better defender than he gets credit for) and obviously Kirilenko on defense.
OKC shot 61% and scored 119 while hitting just 3-12 from 3.
Oklahoma has Harden out for the next couple weeks, hope he gets back beginning of April at least to get a rythm before the POs. They have zero depth on the 2/3 positions, Kyle Weaver is their lone SG/SF right now.

Orlando manages to loose to the Bobcats on a night where Howard hits 12-14 from the field (he had a -15 no less, so somethin didn´t go well).
And sometimes erratic shooting aside, Stephen Jackson is having a great season for the Bobcats.