Werewolf XXXVII: Middle-Earth - GAME ENDS. Who Won? Check it out! - Page 27

BrianD · 11-09-2006, 01:58 PM

Enough of the bickering with me involved...

Hey Blade, Alan said that none of your Hobbit family could grow hair on their feet. Go get him.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Not to be confused with your insistance on treating it like the bad guys MUST HAVE KNOWN he was bad, when in fact it hasn't been proved one way or the other.

I thought that a mechanic where they would have known was unlikely, but I didn't realize that such had been used before.

I haven't insisted that at all. The only thing i have insisted is that its not cut and dry on whether or not the bad guys knew who he was. I still say that this is not the meat of my discussion and was something interesting I noticed in following up in reading posts.

By no means was my intention to use Point B to prove point A was true when it had to be that point A was true for Point B to even matter. I feel like you all have been trying to turn this into a circular discussion about the part I found interesting rather than about what actually brought me to looking at you two in the first place.

Tyrith · 11-09-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

No one will probably believe me, but with it being a LotR WW, I figured what the heck, I'll come in not throw around accusations and enjoy it a bit. =\

You just seem really good at finding people to fuss at you today. I'm not really sure what to make of it....we could really use a CoT right now.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

How am I supposed to know what the bad guys knew?? If you and BrianD are sure that you all didn't know who Scoobz was before hand, then fine I'll admit that one of the bad guy's sides didn't know him!

I'm not a bad guy, so of course I didn't know he was bad (or good, or anything else... I did think he was a good lynch candidate, but I thought the lack of a second viable candidate was a TERRIBLE idea, and I still think we misplayed that vote). Dunno about BrianD, obviously. I've gone into my reasons for thinking that the bad guys didn't know him, ad nauseum.

Quote:

Seriously though, like I said before I based my suspect list on those who voted Lathum day 2

We now know that day 2 was a villager vs. villager runoff. I don't understand the motives you're ascribing to the bad guys.

It almost looks to me like you set up a suspect list at some point from a working assumption that Lathum was a bad guy; if that's the case, I sincerely hope you've scrapped it completely and reworked it from scratch.

BrianD · 11-09-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I haven't insisted that at all. The only thing i have insisted is that its not cut and dry on whether or not the bad guys knew who he was. I still say that this is not the meat of my discussion and was something interesting I noticed in following up in reading posts.

By no means was my intention to use Point B to prove point A was true when it had to be that point A was true for Point B to even matter. I feel like you all have been trying to turn this into a circular discussion about the part I found interesting rather than about what actually brought me to looking at you two in the first place.

Really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanT

I do find your moves suspicious so far. The late meaningless move onto a bad guy, followed by the insistence the next day that no bad guys could possibly have known he was bad when in fact it hasn't been proved one way or another.

Care to revise that statement?

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

If you want to be suspicious of my moves, that is fine. I'm trying to knock out the bad guys, but you are allowed to see suspicion in my moves. The fact that you combined suspicion with the rules discussion seems like bad logic. The fact that you are now backing off and calling that discussion "interesting" doesn't change the fact that you used bad logic to throw a lot of heat my way. You have been trying to run things all game and you have used bad logic to point at me, Mr. Wed, and Blade. That makes me trust you very little.

Is it so different from his play in Resident Evil? I don't trust his reasoning or conclusions, but I have no reason at this point to think he's a bad guy.

(I will say that all the flailing around at good guys is a good way for him to stay alive a long time, if not necessarily a winning strategy.

)

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Really?

Care to revise that statement?

I re-read the two quotes like 5 times and I apologize, but I don't see anything contradictory in there at all.

I will swear up and down that blindly stating that the bad guys did not know about Scoobz in any way pre-lynch as a fact is a bad and suspicious thing. I will swear up and down until we know otherwise that we don't know what possibilities there are.

BrianD · 11-09-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Is it so different from his play in Resident Evil? I don't trust his reasoning or conclusions, but I have no reason at this point to think he's a bad guy.

(I will say that all the flailing around at good guys is a good way for him to stay alive a long time, if not necessarily a winning strategy.

)

No it isn't, and we all saw how well that turned out.

This thing is that this would be a perfect wolf strategy, but he plays it as a non-wolf too.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I'm not a bad guy, so of course I didn't know he was bad (or good, or anything else... I did think he was a good lynch candidate, but I thought the lack of a second viable candidate was a TERRIBLE idea, and I still think we misplayed that vote). Dunno about BrianD, obviously. I've gone into my reasons for thinking that the bad guys didn't know him, ad nauseum.

We now know that day 2 was a villager vs. villager runoff. I don't understand the motives you're ascribing to the bad guys.

It almost looks to me like you set up a suspect list at some point from a working assumption that Lathum was a bad guy; if that's the case, I sincerely hope you've scrapped it completely and reworked it from scratch.

I am basing it more on the thought about why was Lathum killed last night. The fact Lathum's death wasn't a normal night kill and it likely came from a different direction of thought than the other night kills.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

No it isn't, and we all saw how well that turned out.

This thing is that this would be a perfect wolf strategy, but he plays it as a non-wolf too.

Actually for whatever its worth, this is much different than how I was in RE. In RE I came out pretty strongly every day as facts and pushed really hard on people.

So far this game, almost every fight i have been in has been brought onto me and I've defended myself (albeit defended loudly). I haven't come out once and said I know either of you are bad.

Perhaps everyone would rather it if I did what everyone else did and said: vote soandso because my gut tells me so.

Instead I try to give the reasoning why I came to the conclusion I did today and what is pushing my vote. I think it can stir up conversation and either lead to a consensus on someone, or lead to a new path.

Instead what happens is people have been taking everything super defensively and striking back (Blade, Schmidty, you, Mr.W, etc) and everyone else in the game is afraid to even jump in the discussion.

I dont have any problems with you defending yourself at all and I havent admitted that I know 100% anything about anyone. I do however have my instincts just like anyone else and thats all I can rely on.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I am basing it more on the thought about why was Lathum killed last night. The fact Lathum's death wasn't a normal night kill and it likely came from a different direction of thought than the other night kills.

I don't see that there's really anything to discern, though... from the point of view of the Saruman faction, they wouldn't mind picking off a member of the Sauron faction, so if they really thought Lathum was such, then there would be something to say for trying to push the vote that way -- but that doesn't distinguish them from anyone else in the game aside from the Sauron faction itself. Otherwise, neither faction has any reason to push anything... they can take care of him with their night kill, if they think it necessary, and with both candidates being good guys it's a good time to avoid drawing unnecessary attention.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 02:15 PM

Alan, I haven't been striking back. I felt very strongly about the Scoobz issue (less so with Tyrith's point about a prior game), but otherwise I've stayed out of debates with you.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 02:15 PM

Double dola, that should be, less so now.

BrianD · 11-09-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I re-read the two quotes like 5 times and I apologize, but I don't see anything contradictory in there at all.

So I am suspicious because of my late vote change and the fact that I thought there was no way the bad guys knew about Scoobz being dark (which I never stated), but you aren't using the fact that I thought there was no way the bad guys knew about Scoobz being dark (which I never stated) as a reason to prove that I'm suspicious. You really don't see a contradiction there?

Quote:

I will swear up and down that blindly stating that the bad guys did not know about Scoobz in any way pre-lynch as a fact is a bad and suspicious thing. I will swear up and down until we know otherwise that we don't know what possibilities there are.

Oh. My. God. Hi Alan, my name is Brian. You know, the guy you have been having a conversation with all day. How are you? I'm going to say this one more time, and I am going to type slowly to make sure that you get it.

I never said that the bad guys did not know about Scoobz in any way pre-lynch.

One more time.

I never said that the bad guys did not know about Scoobz in any way pre-lynch.

I said that I didn't think Scoobz was in either dark faction. I said the bad guys probably didn't know he was dark. I don't know the exact definition of "probably", but I generally use it to say between 50% and 100%. They might have known he was bad, or they might not. I lean toward the "not", but I never said that the bad guys did not know about Scoobz in any way pre-lynch (guess I got it in a third time).

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 02:16 PM

Triple dola, if you can reference a summary of the votes cast during day 2, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

I don't see that there's really anything to discern, though... from the point of view of the Saruman faction, they wouldn't mind picking off a member of the Sauron faction, so if they really thought Lathum was such, then there would be something to say for trying to push the vote that way -- but that doesn't distinguish them from anyone else in the game aside from the Sauron faction itself. Otherwise, neither faction has any reason to push anything... they can take care of him with their night kill, if they think it necessary, and with both candidates being good guys it's a good time to avoid drawing unnecessary attention.

I am curious then what do you think the reason for Saruman (or whoever) to have killed Lathum that night instead of someone else who was a veteran and hadn't had much heat on them? Some people still had Lathum in distrust lists and it wasn't a full stretch to think that he could end back up in lynch talks.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

Here is vote order. I was second vote on Chief Rum.

(446) Chief rum votes Saldana (1)
(482) Saldana votes Chief Rum (1)
(484) Izulde votes Blade (1)
(501) Jonathan Ezarik votes Daddy Torgo (1)
(504) Alan votes Chief Rum (2)
(532) Sndvls votes St.Cronin (1)
(552) Schmidty votes Chief Rum (3)
(554) BrianD votes Spleen (1)
(555) Lathum votes Chief Rum (4)
(557) St.Cronin votes Lathum (1)
(565) Tyrith votes Lathum (2)
(574) Blade votes Chief Rum (5)
(577) Jonathan Ezarik UNVOTES Daddy Torgo (0) ***
(577) Jonathan Ezarik votes Chief Rum (6)
(583) Mr.Wednesday votes Lathum (3)
(585) Thomkal votes Chief Rum (7)
(593) Grammaticus votes Chief Rum (8)
(594) Swaggs votes Lathum (4)
(595) Ntndeacon votes Lathum (5)
(607) Kwhit votes Lathum (6)
(611) Blade UNVOTES Chief RUm (7) ***
(611) Blade votes Alan (1)
(616) Sublime votes Lathum (7)
(625) Spleen votes Chief Rum (8)
(700) Lonestargirl votes Chief Rum (9)
(704) Tyrith UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(704) Tyrith votes Swaggs (1)
(707) BrianD UNVOTES Spleen (0) ***
(707) BrianD votes Lathum (7)
(708) Mr.Wednesday UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(708) Mr.Wednesday votes Chief Rum (10)
(712) DaddyTorgo votes Lathum (7)
(738) Izulde UNVOTES Blade (0) ***
(738) Izulde votes Chief Rum (11)
(752) Dodgerchick votes Chief Rum (12)
(758) Kwhit UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(758) Kwhit votes Chief Rum (13)
(765) Kwhit UNVOTES Chief Rum (12) ***
(765) Kwhit votes Lathum (7)

This was the day 2 votes you asked for.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

So I am suspicious because of my late vote change and the fact that I thought there was no way the bad guys knew about Scoobz being dark (which I never stated), but you aren't using the fact that I thought there was no way the bad guys knew about Scoobz being dark (which I never stated) as a reason to prove that I'm suspicious. You really don't see a contradiction there?

Oh. My. God. Hi Alan, my name is Brian. You know, the guy you have been having a conversation with all day. How are you? I'm going to say this one more time, and I am going to type slowly to make sure that you get it.

I never said that the bad guys did not know about Scoobz in any way pre-lynch.

One more time.

I never said that the bad guys did not know about Scoobz in any way pre-lynch.

I said that I didn't think Scoobz was in either dark faction. I said the bad guys probably didn't know he was dark. I don't know the exact definition of "probably", but I generally use it to say between 50% and 100%. They might have known he was bad, or they might not. I lean toward the "not", but I never said that the bad guys did not know about Scoobz in any way pre-lynch (guess I got it in a third time).

I think i forgot what we are arguing about here.. As far as I know this discussion has gone:

1) I found the references to the bad guys not knowing scoobz was interesting based on my other suspicions and who was involved.
2) You tell me the rules stated that the bad guys don't know about Scoobz
3) I said that I felt there were ways within the rules that they could have known him regardless and not allowing for that possibility is wrong
4) It is suggested that I am insisting that you knew about Scoobz before hand
5) I say I am not insisting that you knew, just that I didn't like the possibility of it being ignored.

Repeat #4 and 5 over and over and over again.

To bring this back to the beginning again.. I found it interesting when reading your and Mr.W's posts -after- I had already built a suspicion list and referenced it. I don't know if you did or did not, but I think there is some open possibility of it being there.

I do not find anything in that statement factually wrong. You can disagree with my opinion or interpretation of the first 2 day's votes, but I did put alot of effort into trying to find what I -personally- felt was the most suspicious.

Heck I could be wrong, but at least I'm not saying vote briand because I just have a lucky feeling about it.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I am curious then what do you think the reason for Saruman (or whoever) to have killed Lathum that night instead of someone else who was a veteran and hadn't had much heat on them? Some people still had Lathum in distrust lists and it wasn't a full stretch to think that he could end back up in lynch talks.

Haven't thought it through that far, honestly.

Maybe they thought he was getting too close to someone, or maybe they wanted us to think that. He is a vet, although I don't think, offhand, he had really gotten going in this game (but I'll admit, I haven't paid full attention in the first couple of days to the interplay).

BrianD · 11-09-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think i forgot what we are arguing about here.. As far as I know this discussion has gone:

Let me see if I can help.

Quote:

1) I found the references to the bad guys not knowing scoobz was interesting based on my other suspicions and who was involved.
2) You tell me the rules stated that the bad guys don't know about Scoobz

No. This is actually the part we are arguing about. I didn't say the rules stated that the bad guyd didn't know about Scoobz. I said that the rules stated that Scoobz wasn't in a faction. I said that the bad guys probably didn't know about Scoobz, but that was just my opinion. I do not state that as fact, nor do I believe the rules address it. Two very different things here. The rules seem to confirm that Scoobz wasn't in a faction. I am guessing that the bad guys didn't know about him. Very different issues.

Quote:

3) I said that I felt there were ways within the rules that they could have known him regardless and not allowing for that possibility is wrong

I am not disputing this. My argument is that you keep claiming that I am disputing this.

Quote:

4) It is suggested that I am insisting that you knew about Scoobz before hand
5) I say I am not insisting that you knew, just that I didn't like the possibility of it being ignored.

By all means, explore the possibility that I knew about Scoobz before hand. I know that I didn't, but explore it as much as you want. Just please understand that any claims I make about whether the bad guys knew about Scoobz was a guess at the game make-up and not discussed in the rule.

Quote:

Repeat #4 and 5 over and over and over again.

To bring this back to the beginning again.. I found it interesting when reading your and Mr.W's posts -after- I had already built a suspicion list and referenced it. I don't know if you did or did not, but I think there is some open possibility of it being there.

I do not find anything in that statement factually wrong. You can disagree with my opinion or interpretation of the first 2 day's votes, but I did put alot of effort into trying to find what I -personally- felt was the most suspicious.

Heck I could be wrong, but at least I'm not saying vote briand because I just have a lucky feeling about it.

It looked to me like you were trying to build suspicion based on things I didn't actually say. If you want to look at my voting history or anything else and find me suspicious, fine. Just please understand that I am going to defend myself if you attribute something to me that I didn't really say.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Let me see if I can help.

No. This is actually the part we are arguing about. I didn't say the rules stated that the bad guyd didn't know about Scoobz. I said that the rules stated that Scoobz wasn't in a faction. I said that the bad guys probably didn't know about Scoobz, but that was just my opinion. I do not state that as fact, nor do I believe the rules address it. Two very different things here. The rules seem to confirm that Scoobz wasn't in a faction. I am guessing that the bad guys didn't know about him. Very different issues.

I guess this is the point I have the misunderstanding then. I assumed because I was stating that I found it interesting your posts about whether the bad guys knew him or not. You actually were arguing a different point entirely then since I wasn't necessarily talking about factions or such as much.

So either you misinterpreted what I was getting at, or I misinterpreted your reply, but I was honestly confused why you kept arguing things that I wasn't even saying.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

This was the day 2 votes you asked for.

Well...

* Mine, Izulde's, and DodgerChick's are the last three votes on CR, guaranteeing that there will be a lynch (my vote that opened up the gap looked suspicious when we didn't know that Lathum was a good guy, but in that specific context it's now meaningless). Both Izulde and I have stated, openly, that we think it's better for the villagers to attempt a lynch. On the one hand, it's good for the bad guys to get a lynch, any lynch, on the other hand, the late votes might draw unwanted attention. I wouldn't say it's unreasonable to vote for us on this basis, although it's certainly not conclusive... the bad guys might just have gotten lucky that we did the dirty work for them.

* Schmidty, Blade, Thomkal, Gram, Spleen, and LSG cast "intermediate" votes on CR (between three and nine). This is a good area to bury a vote. Blade subsequently flipped to Lathum, which is basically a nonsensical move for a bad guy (unless it's an attempt to set a "latent" vote on a bad guy in an unknown faction).

* Myself, Swaggs, ntndeacon, and Sublime cast "intermediate" votes on Lathum. I subsequently flipped to CR, as discussed above.

The remaining votes are...
* Alan voted early for CR (second after now-dead saldana)
* st.cronin and Tyrith voted early for Lathum, with Tyrith flipping later to Swaggs (?)
* BrianD flipped relatively late from Spleen to Lathum.
* DaddyTorgo voted late for Lathum

I don't think I'm missing anything, besides a couple of early singleton votes.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 02:45 PM

Oops, forgot that st.cronin was dead. :o

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Well...

* Mine, Izulde's, and DodgerChick's are the last three votes on CR, guaranteeing that there will be a lynch (my vote that opened up the gap looked suspicious when we didn't know that Lathum was a good guy, but in that specific context it's now meaningless). Both Izulde and I have stated, openly, that we think it's better for the villagers to attempt a lynch. On the one hand, it's good for the bad guys to get a lynch, any lynch, on the other hand, the late votes might draw unwanted attention. I wouldn't say it's unreasonable to vote for us on this basis, although it's certainly not conclusive... the bad guys might just have gotten lucky that we did the dirty work for them.

* Schmidty, Blade, Thomkal, Gram, Spleen, and LSG cast "intermediate" votes on CR (between three and nine). This is a good area to bury a vote. Blade subsequently flipped to Lathum, which is basically a nonsensical move for a bad guy (unless it's an attempt to set a "latent" vote on a bad guy in an unknown faction).

* Myself, Swaggs, ntndeacon, and Sublime cast "intermediate" votes on Lathum. I subsequently flipped to CR, as discussed above.

The remaining votes are...
* Alan voted early for CR (second after now-dead saldana)
* st.cronin and Tyrith voted early for Lathum, with Tyrith flipping later to Swaggs (?)
* BrianD flipped relatively late from Spleen to Lathum.
* DaddyTorgo voted late for Lathum

I don't think I'm missing anything, besides a couple of early singleton votes.

Blade moved his vote to me, not Lathum

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 02:50 PM

Right, I think I read the vote from the next line down. I don't think it really changes the analysis any, though.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Right, I think I read the vote from the next line down. I don't think it really changes the analysis any, though.

No, I'm reading your analysis to see what I think. Just was pointing it out.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 02:54 PM

I'm going to get some work done for the next hour or 90 minutes. I have to head out for the night at 5:30pm EST and wont be back until after lynch (if not just before lynch). Most likely I won't be back.

So I'm going to shut up for a while and see if others have much to say before I decide what to do with my vote for today for sure. Hopefully others drive some good discussion on things.

Current votes:

(2) Ntndeacon - Alan (1247), Jonathan Ezarik (1248)
(1) Sublime - Blade (1207)
(1) Izulde - Lonestargirl (1185)
(1) Tyrith - Spleen (1202)
(1) Lonestargirl - Izulde (1237)
(1) Daddy Torgo - Swaggs (1258)
(1) Mr.Wednesday - Dodgerchick (1274)

BrianD · 11-09-2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I guess this is the point I have the misunderstanding then. I assumed because I was stating that I found it interesting your posts about whether the bad guys knew him or not. You actually were arguing a different point entirely then since I wasn't necessarily talking about factions or such as much.

So either you misinterpreted what I was getting at, or I misinterpreted your reply, but I was honestly confused why you kept arguing things that I wasn't even saying.

Well, that makes us even because to me you were arguing things that I wasn't saying. To be honest, I still think you are misunderstanding what I was saying about the bad guys and Scoobz in the early days as well.

All along I've been thinking the bad guys probably didn't know about Scoobz. I viewed him (like Mr.Wed said) as a sorcerer-type roll. This is a total guess, and it makes sense to also evaluate things assuming I am wrong and the bad guys did know about him. I make no definitive statement either way. The part that made me argue was your belief that I was making a definitive statement.

If you still think the above belief is interesting, then feel free to use it in your analysis. This is what I have been trying to say all along.

BrianD · 11-09-2006, 03:01 PM

For those that are new to this game: There isn't usually this much bickering between players. There are often misunderstandings and people do jump on each other for them, but they don't usually last so long, and there aren't usually so many.

For Alan: Even with all of our misunderstandings today, I haven't been taking (or meaning) anything personally. I knew you were either doing wolfy things or (more probably) not understanding what I was saying, so all is good.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 03:50 PM

Compared to some of the games I've been in, this is pretty mild.

Grammaticus · 11-09-2006, 03:52 PM

Two of the people with votes right now are tops on my suspicion list and that is ntndeacon and LSG. We pushed a bit for something from them yesterday and got nothing but static posts.

LSG says she plays a quite game in general. I don’t see that. She usually plays with more aggressiveness. After accusations of UTR, She came out and said she was going to post some analysis and really never did. That whole vibe is really nagging me. I think something is wrong here.

Ntndeacon upon accusations of UTR spoke up and asked if we thought one side could kill and the other could not. Didn’t we have that whole conversation the prior day? I would have expected him to add something to it, but he just asked the basic question. On day one ntndeacon said we needed to consolidate votes and said he though Blade was suspicious and he could vote for him. Then he proceeded to place his vote on Swaggs who did not have any votres. That is neither consolidating as there were plenty of people with votes and it was not on Blade who he had said he was suspicious. I found that an odd play.

I can go with either of these options, for now:

VOTE LoneStarGirl

BrianD · 11-09-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Compared to some of the games I've been in, this is pretty mild.

Really? This seemed overly rough. I guess I missed some of the good ones.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

Current votes:

(2) Ntndeacon - Alan (1247), Jonathan Ezarik (1248)
(1) Sublime - Blade (1207)
(1) Izulde - Lonestargirl (1185)
(1) Tyrith - Spleen (1202)
(1) Lonestargirl - Izulde (1237)
(1) Daddy Torgo - Swaggs (1258)
(1) Mr.Wednesday - Dodgerchick (1274)

Hmm... don't everyone start a runoff at once.

ntndeacon and Sublime fit in the buried-on-Lathum contingent. LSG fits the buried-on-CR contingent. Izulde and I are in the late-move-to-get-a-lynch contingent. Tyrith had an early vote followed by a strange move, DaddyTorgo had a late semi-buried vote on Lathum.

And at this point, we could probably pick up an unlisted candidate if we wanted.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Really? This seemed overly rough. I guess I missed some of the good ones.

Oh, there were some epic blow-ups. The figures that I recall being involved are Blade, RealDeal, and Alan.

Mr. Wednesday · 11-09-2006, 03:57 PM

Dola, actually, with Gramm voting for LSG, we now have two candidates with two votes...

BrianD · 11-09-2006, 04:00 PM

I had thought about voting for NTN, but then I fear Alan will point at me again for buddying up to him. I'm going to vote Izulde today. He put some pressure on people earlier for playing out of character (that I disagreed with), and he is voting for LSG who Blade seems to think might be important. I think I'll be around later tonight if things change.

Vote Izulde

Schmidty · 11-09-2006, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Really? This seemed overly rough. I guess I missed some of the good ones.

You haven't played with me much, have you....

ntndeacon · 11-09-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I would hate for facts to get in the way of a good story and all, but I already spent about an hour looking through posts to find which people I felt fit a certain profile. Right now the ones that stood out to me most were you, Mr.Wednesday and Ntndeacon.

Below are the posts from you on the subject, I did not include the interplay Mr.Wednesday had with you going back and forth, but to me you two sure did seem to easily conclude it was fact that bad guys didn't know Scoobz was on their team. It seemed awfully convienant for you two that would be the case considering your actions that day.

I hate to even mention this as you have already linked me to Brian. But I read Scoobz death the same way. i.e. that he was a Dark independent player. We will have a better idea on that after the next bad guy dies, I would imagine. But that is not an inconsistent reading.

BrianD · 11-09-2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmidty

You haven't played with me much, have you....

No, not that I recall...and I have a feeling that I would remember.

Schmidty · 11-09-2006, 04:06 PM

I, again, have absolutely no idea who to vote for today. AlanT scares me the most, since he can lead certain people to come to whatever conclusion he comes to. On the other hand, if he's not a wolf, we'd be losing a valuabe player if he were to be lynched. I guess for now, I'll listen to what he says, and vote:

Vote ntndeacon

Tyrith · 11-09-2006, 04:12 PM

You know, right now I could probably be convinced to lynch anyone except spleen or blade. But, unfortunately we can only kill one, and I think in the next two hours or so this seven candidate mess needs to become a two candidate mess. I don't want it to be LSG and ntn because they seem to be being grouped together in some people's conversations in the manner blade talked about izulde and sublime and how brian and mr.w are stuck together.

That said...I don't know. Brian and Mr.W have their advantages as lynch targets because they have been bickering with Alan, who is once again one of the big drivers of the conversation. We need to know about him sometime soon before he drives us over the cliff. I'd rather kill Brian because there seems to have been more suspicion on him lately, but Mr.W has a vote on him already. I'm somewhat ambivalent. I'd rather try to make a race than divide stuff more.

VOTE MR. W

Tyrith · 11-09-2006, 04:14 PM

Hrm, now Brian votes for Izulde. In terms of pure suspicion Izulde is probably on the top of my list now because of his grasping for straws against LSG. Sigh, damnit. I really want a good race more than anything else.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 04:17 PM

Looks like right now its:

(3) Ntndeacon - Alan (1247), Jonathan Ezarik (1248), Schmidty (1340)
(2) Lonestargirl - Izulde (1237), Grammaticus (1331)
(2) Izulde - Lonestargirl (1185), BrianD (1336)
(2) Mr.Wednesday - Dodgerchick (1274), Tyrith (1341)
(1) Sublime - Blade (1207)
(1) Tyrith - Spleen (1202)
(1) Daddy Torgo - Swaggs (1258)

I have 15-20 min till I have to leave until post-lynch so won't be able to change my vote at that point.

I won't be moving my vote to Lonestargirl or Izulde today. I could move my vote to Mr.W before I leave, but its doubtful. Unless something changes in the next 15-20 min, I likely will leave my vote on ntndeacon for the night.

ntndeacon · 11-09-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I, again, have absolutely no idea who to vote for today. AlanT scares me the most, since he can lead certain people to come to whatever conclusion he comes to. On the other hand, if he's not a wolf, we'd be losing a valuabe player if he were to be lynched. I guess for now, I'll listen to what he says, and vote:

Vote ntndeacon

I agree about Alan. Of course when and if he becomes a wolf he will probably do the same thing...leading discussion Imean. (Obviously idon't agree withyour vote. ANd iwill be back in about 2 hours to say more )

Tyrith · 11-09-2006, 04:23 PM

For the record we need nine votes to lynch today.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 04:25 PM

dola, the reason I won't be voting for Lonestargirl or Izulde is that I don't necessarily like the substance of the distrust between the two. It felt to me that it was a hunch vote based off of one's perception of voting styles, which the other reacted with the general "If you are voting for me then you must be a wolf" type mentality. The accusations back only increase the initial suspicion until you get to the point where both "feel" the other is a wolf but can't put any real finger on proof and make not fully convincing arguements.

It just feels like one of those types of arguements that end up with a villager vs villager matchup where one is lynched, shown to be good and everyone chases down the other to be lynched and find them also ending up to be good.

At this point in the game I really don't think we want to take the chance on spinning wheels that this is true.

I could be wrong about that, but that is the feeling I am getting from Izulde and Lonestargirl and their play so I don't really have much interest in seeing that be the matchup.

Blade6119 · 11-09-2006, 04:29 PM

Id prefer sublime, but izulde is my #2

UNVOTE SUBLIME 2

VOTE IZULDE

Tyrith · 11-09-2006, 04:30 PM

We're off to the races!

UNVOTE MR. W
VOTE IZULDE

Grammaticus · 11-09-2006, 04:42 PM

What is the case against Izulde? I have him down as being quite and noting that is his normal game style? I don't recall the game I played with him but it was at least one.

Alan T · 11-09-2006, 04:43 PM

Well I'm out. Good luck villagers, I hope you don't shoot our side in the foot tonight. Back after lynch.

11-09-2006, 02:15 PM	#1312
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	Alan, I haven't been striking back. I felt very strongly about the Scoobz issue (less so with Tyrith's point about a prior game), but otherwise I've stayed out of debates with you. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

11-09-2006, 02:15 PM	#1313
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	Double dola, that should be, less so now. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

11-09-2006, 02:16 PM	#1315
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	Triple dola, if you can reference a summary of the votes cast during day 2, I'd be interested in seeing it. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

11-09-2006, 02:45 PM	#1323
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	Oops, forgot that st.cronin was dead. :o __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

11-09-2006, 02:50 PM	#1325
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	Right, I think I read the vote from the next line down. I don't think it really changes the analysis any, though. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

11-09-2006, 01:58 PM	#1301
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Enough of the bickering with me involved... Hey Blade, Alan said that none of your Hobbit family could grow hair on their feet. Go get him.

11-09-2006, 02:54 PM	#1327
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	I'm going to get some work done for the next hour or 90 minutes. I have to head out for the night at 5:30pm EST and wont be back until after lynch (if not just before lynch). Most likely I won't be back. So I'm going to shut up for a while and see if others have much to say before I decide what to do with my vote for today for sure. Hopefully others drive some good discussion on things. Current votes: (2) Ntndeacon - Alan (1247), Jonathan Ezarik (1248) (1) Sublime - Blade (1207) (1) Izulde - Lonestargirl (1185) (1) Tyrith - Spleen (1202) (1) Lonestargirl - Izulde (1237) (1) Daddy Torgo - Swaggs (1258) (1) Mr.Wednesday - Dodgerchick (1274)

11-09-2006, 03:01 PM	#1329
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	For those that are new to this game: There isn't usually this much bickering between players. There are often misunderstandings and people do jump on each other for them, but they don't usually last so long, and there aren't usually so many. For Alan: Even with all of our misunderstandings today, I haven't been taking (or meaning) anything personally. I knew you were either doing wolfy things or (more probably) not understanding what I was saying, so all is good.

11-09-2006, 03:50 PM	#1330
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	Compared to some of the games I've been in, this is pretty mild. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

11-09-2006, 03:52 PM	#1331
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	Two of the people with votes right now are tops on my suspicion list and that is ntndeacon and LSG. We pushed a bit for something from them yesterday and got nothing but static posts. LSG says she plays a quite game in general. I don’t see that. She usually plays with more aggressiveness. After accusations of UTR, She came out and said she was going to post some analysis and really never did. That whole vibe is really nagging me. I think something is wrong here. Ntndeacon upon accusations of UTR spoke up and asked if we thought one side could kill and the other could not. Didn’t we have that whole conversation the prior day? I would have expected him to add something to it, but he just asked the basic question. On day one ntndeacon said we needed to consolidate votes and said he though Blade was suspicious and he could vote for him. Then he proceeded to place his vote on Swaggs who did not have any votres. That is neither consolidating as there were plenty of people with votes and it was not on Blade who he had said he was suspicious. I found that an odd play. I can go with either of these options, for now: VOTE LoneStarGirl

11-09-2006, 03:57 PM	#1335
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	Dola, actually, with Gramm voting for LSG, we now have two candidates with two votes... __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

11-09-2006, 04:00 PM	#1336
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	I had thought about voting for NTN, but then I fear Alan will point at me again for buddying up to him. I'm going to vote Izulde today. He put some pressure on people earlier for playing out of character (that I disagreed with), and he is voting for LSG who Blade seems to think might be important. I think I'll be around later tonight if things change. Vote Izulde

11-09-2006, 04:06 PM	#1340
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	I, again, have absolutely no idea who to vote for today. AlanT scares me the most, since he can lead certain people to come to whatever conclusion he comes to. On the other hand, if he's not a wolf, we'd be losing a valuabe player if he were to be lynched. I guess for now, I'll listen to what he says, and vote: Vote ntndeacon

11-09-2006, 04:12 PM	#1341
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	You know, right now I could probably be convinced to lynch anyone except spleen or blade. But, unfortunately we can only kill one, and I think in the next two hours or so this seven candidate mess needs to become a two candidate mess. I don't want it to be LSG and ntn because they seem to be being grouped together in some people's conversations in the manner blade talked about izulde and sublime and how brian and mr.w are stuck together. That said...I don't know. Brian and Mr.W have their advantages as lynch targets because they have been bickering with Alan, who is once again one of the big drivers of the conversation. We need to know about him sometime soon before he drives us over the cliff. I'd rather kill Brian because there seems to have been more suspicion on him lately, but Mr.W has a vote on him already. I'm somewhat ambivalent. I'd rather try to make a race than divide stuff more. VOTE MR. W

11-09-2006, 04:14 PM	#1342
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	Hrm, now Brian votes for Izulde. In terms of pure suspicion Izulde is probably on the top of my list now because of his grasping for straws against LSG. Sigh, damnit. I really want a good race more than anything else.

11-09-2006, 04:17 PM	#1343
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Looks like right now its: (3) Ntndeacon - Alan (1247), Jonathan Ezarik (1248), Schmidty (1340) (2) Lonestargirl - Izulde (1237), Grammaticus (1331) (2) Izulde - Lonestargirl (1185), BrianD (1336) (2) Mr.Wednesday - Dodgerchick (1274), Tyrith (1341) (1) Sublime - Blade (1207) (1) Tyrith - Spleen (1202) (1) Daddy Torgo - Swaggs (1258) I have 15-20 min till I have to leave until post-lynch so won't be able to change my vote at that point. I won't be moving my vote to Lonestargirl or Izulde today. I could move my vote to Mr.W before I leave, but its doubtful. Unless something changes in the next 15-20 min, I likely will leave my vote on ntndeacon for the night.

11-09-2006, 04:23 PM	#1345
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	For the record we need nine votes to lynch today.

11-09-2006, 04:25 PM	#1346
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	dola, the reason I won't be voting for Lonestargirl or Izulde is that I don't necessarily like the substance of the distrust between the two. It felt to me that it was a hunch vote based off of one's perception of voting styles, which the other reacted with the general "If you are voting for me then you must be a wolf" type mentality. The accusations back only increase the initial suspicion until you get to the point where both "feel" the other is a wolf but can't put any real finger on proof and make not fully convincing arguements. It just feels like one of those types of arguements that end up with a villager vs villager matchup where one is lynched, shown to be good and everyone chases down the other to be lynched and find them also ending up to be good. At this point in the game I really don't think we want to take the chance on spinning wheels that this is true. I could be wrong about that, but that is the feeling I am getting from Izulde and Lonestargirl and their play so I don't really have much interest in seeing that be the matchup.

11-09-2006, 04:29 PM	#1347
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	Id prefer sublime, but izulde is my #2 UNVOTE SUBLIME 2 VOTE IZULDE __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

11-09-2006, 04:30 PM	#1348
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	We're off to the races! UNVOTE MR. W VOTE IZULDE

11-09-2006, 04:42 PM	#1349
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	What is the case against Izulde? I have him down as being quite and noting that is his normal game style? I don't recall the game I played with him but it was at least one.

11-09-2006, 04:43 PM	#1350
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Well I'm out. Good luck villagers, I hope you don't shoot our side in the foot tonight. Back after lynch.

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